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Utopia Talk / Politics / Mueller isn't indicting Trump
murder
Member
Sat Jan 19 07:24:49
Mueller's pushback against the Buzzfeed article that alleged that the Special Prosecutor had evidence that Trump had instructed Cohen to lie to Congress, is clear evidence that Mueller will not be trying to indict Trump, or to even recommend that Congress take action against Trump.

Why do I say this? Well, every single day there are stories about the investigation, and there is silence from Mueller. Every single day Trump and his cronies comment on the investigation. They lie about the facts of the case, they attempt to discredit the investigation, they try to intimidate cooperating witnesses, they openly support witnesses who refuse to cooperate ... and Mueller allows it all without comment.

But the moment there is a credible report that Mueller has evidence of a clearly impeachable offense ... he puts out a statement discrediting the report.

Mueller is clearly managing expectations.

This is no surprise to me. You don't rise to the levels that Mueller has by knocking over apple carts, even if the apples are rotten or diseased. Mueller and the system are deeply invested in the system. Mueller and his kind were always going to try to manage Trump and ride him out, rather than remove him and cause an upheaval.

Not only that, but I wouldn't expect a federal indictment of any of Trump's relatives either ... no matter what evidence may be uncovered.

Bagging the likes of Cohen and Manafort and Flynn was always the best we could hope for, and even they would get slaps on the wrist if they just didn't get stupid.

Unless Trump directly challenges Congress or the Court, the chances of him not serving out his term(s) are close to 0%.

So if you're holding your breath ... stop.

Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 19 08:22:10
Well if he found actual collusion with russia...

But paying a hooker and covering it up isnt enough. Dems let clinton slide for basically the same thing.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Jan 19 09:09:08
I reserve judgment for when the facts are out. That article was bullshit anyways. BuzzFeed is pure shit and fuck them for putting out fake news and feeding right-wing victimhood.

Anyways, opposition to Trump is based on his policies. That he's also clearly an asshole and criminal (directing Cohen to pay off those women was already a felony) is just icing on a shit cake.
Rugian
Member
Sat Jan 19 09:11:32
Seriously, the second anyone saw "Buzzfeed reports that" they should have immediately treated it as suspect.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 19 09:37:06
It was widely shared as factual through congress and leftist media.

Lol oops.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 19 09:40:12
Cnn and msnbc gleefully talk about impeachment 200 times before learning buzzfeed report is fake.

http://dai...mpeach-trump-buzzfeed-mueller/

Lol why dont people trust us? -dem media
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Jan 19 11:02:16
it was widely shared with "if this is true" caveats... it was even suggested as a drinking game on Jake Tapper

and why wouldn't it be talked about? it's a clear impeachable offense 'if true'... and probably IS true... perhaps not as provable as Buzzfeed claims though

it's like how Trump DEFINITELY told Comey to ease up on Flynn... yet people doubt it... Comey said it under oath, w/ no lies proven by Comey (despite all the smears), AND Comey has **contemporaneous notes** saying he said it, and Trump seems like someone who would do it (he said Manafort was being treated unfairly both before and even DURING his trial), and Trump hasn't even given a counter narrative (even out of oath)

...it ABSOLUTELY happened
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Jan 19 11:10:12
as to OP, Mueller said a long time ago he wouldn't try to indict (that he would follow guidelines)

their statement was Buzzfeed was inaccurate, it could mean there's no definitive proof

Trump doesn't email (doesn't know how), meets in person w/ his criminal associates, pays in cash, etc... nailing him down beyond witness testimony could be tricky

however his obstruction & witness tampering* has been quite clear & in the open for anyone paying attention

*he at least 3x has publicly brought up Cohen's father-in-law, insinuating he's a criminal... if Trump knows something why is HE not talking to investigators? total garbage of a 'man'
obaminated
Member
Sat Jan 19 23:13:15
rip tw.
Pillz
Member
Sun Jan 20 02:50:56
Tw should have to rename himself when Trump gets 4 more years.

Or at least a change of tag
Turtle Crawler
Admin
Mon Jan 21 01:07:34
It seems like it's been clear for years now that there is nothing there.
murder
Member
Mon Jan 21 07:14:26

There's nothing where? There's tons everywhere.

murder
Member
Tue Mar 26 06:18:15
^

In case anyone missed this the first time.

swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Mar 26 07:01:16
rachel maddow and adam schiff thank you.
keep up the good work.
murder
Member
Tue Mar 26 07:35:53

Rachel could have saved herself some tears if she'd listened to me all along.

Guys like Robert Mueller don't do radical things. They don't overturn apple carts. And they sure as hell don't throw the nation into chaos.

Forwyn
Member
Tue Mar 26 12:57:40
"Tw should have to rename himself when Trump gets 4 more years.

Or at least a change of tag"

I concur. Some variation of TDS seems appropriate.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 26 14:10:23
if he gets 4 more years (as president not prison time) then "America is ruined" will be ok with me
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 26 14:20:06
TDS goes to all the people finding Trump fit for office

he's out there demanding criminal investigation of everyone involved in starting this lawful & warranted probe and it's being dismissed as Trump taking a victory lap

and there are people praising how the system worked, Mueller was able to do his job... meanwhile Trump is saying this should never be allowed to happen again
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Mar 26 20:00:27
"And they sure as hell don't throw the nation into chaos."

right.
they just let a "russian" asset remain prez,cause you know it's good for the country.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 26 21:42:13
how are his actions different from being a Russian asset?
murder
Member
Tue Mar 26 23:02:12

"right. they just let a "russian" asset remain prez, cause you know it's good for the country."

Yeah the flaw in that thinking is that it relies on other adults in positions of power to manage him and keep him in check ... and for Americans to not be stupid enough to re-elect him.

It's flawed thinking, but that's how these guys think.



tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Mar 26 23:20:27
and that is what's happening whether he's an actual Russian agent or just a useful idiot
obaminated
Member
Tue Mar 26 23:29:51
"how are his actions different from being a Russian asset?"

it is startling to see how deep you are in your political bubble.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 01:15:33
Trump has criticized Russia one time... your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find that instance


then ponder if it should have only been one time... and whether the heaps of praise at every opportunity should have happened... and dismissing of Putin being a killer... and dismissing the airplane shootdown... and giving Russian talking pts on Ukraine... and siding w/ Putin over our intel agencies... and repeatedly trying to convince the public that Russia was innocent of any interference... and never once giving a single shit about the interference... and having meetings alone with Putin including even w/o an interpreter on our side... and taking the notes of the interpreter when he did have one...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 01:23:02
...and advocated for Russia being back in G7/G8... and resisted/delayed sanctions imposed by congress... and eased other sanctions...
kargen
Member
Wed Mar 27 02:45:04
While Mr. Trump said nothing on Thursday about either the sanctions or Russia’s interference in the election, he did end days of silence about the attack with a military-grade nerve agent against the former spy, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter, despite Moscow’s denials. “It certainly looks like the Russians were behind it,” he told reporters in the Oval Office. “Something that should never ever happen. We’re taking it very seriously, as I think are many others.”

swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Mar 27 12:20:47
"...and advocated for Russia being back in G7/G8... and resisted/delayed sanctions imposed by congress... and eased other sanctions..."

and that's not all,he just gave the ok for a russian plane to overfly the US and take pictures and stuff!!
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 12:41:35
no russian agent could say (after everyone was concluding it) "looks like it was Russia, it shouldn't happen"... and we all remember his strong follow-up right? nothing?


i don't know if he's compromised or a useful idiot, but he's not fit for office (because of this & many many many other things)

Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, David Pecker, Michael Cohen, & Allen Weisselberg all had blackmail material on Trump (& surely others) so not at all shocking if Russia does, as they actively try to get it on influential people
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Mar 27 12:45:47
"so not at all shocking if Russia does, as they actively try to get it on influential people"

how cosmopolitan of them
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 12:51:23
would you (or anyone) like to offer an explanation why for nearly 2 years after unanimous conclusion by our intel community & dozens of Russians charged, that Trump still wants the public to think Russia was innocent of interference?

a mentally fit explanation

i don't know why this isn't a continuous story... he should be asked about it every opportunity... and Sarah asked every month at her 'daily' briefing
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 12:57:30
maybe it will come up again when the Mueller report is released more fully as that's half the report... and Trump finds Mueller to be honorable suddenly
kargen
Member
Wed Mar 27 15:51:07
"Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, David Pecker, Michael Cohen, & Allen Weisselberg all had blackmail material on Trump"

and look how well that is working out for them. Seems if they do have something it isn't preventing President Trump from going about his business.

"that Trump still wants the public to think Russia was innocent of interference?"

"Then, on Feb. 19, Trump again criticized Obama, tweeting: “Obama was President up to, and beyond, the 2016 Election. So why didn’t he do something about Russian meddling?”"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 15:59:03
you consider that an attack on Russia? ok, he obliquely kinda blames them when it's for a different purpose


not sure your point on blackmail... maybe none of those people blackmailed him (although two got 6 figure payouts)... but who knows why Trump is so pro-Russia all the time, could involve blackmail... certainly nothing rules it out... there's no explanation provided by anyone, including himself
kargen
Member
Wed Mar 27 16:35:59
" when it's for a different purpose"

what purpose?

"not sure your point on blackmail..."

well most the time when you blackmail someone it is to in some way benefit yourself or your agenda. How have those people benefited from things they may or may not know about Trump?

Stormy Daniels got some money as part of a nondisclosure agreement she then broke. So I guess at least one person got something.

Nothing rules it out is an argument of the delusional. Nothing rules out Vampires live among us.

President Trump says good things about people he wants something from. It is one of his things. Has been for decades. Not that hard to figure out.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 16:59:49
"what purpose?"

blaming Obama

---------

out of his constant defense & praise of Putin/Russia what has he gotten? (that benefits the US, not himself)

and how does misleading Americans about their attack on us good for the country?

-----

Stormy & Karen got over $100,000 each... Michael & Allen are employees so get/got large paychecks... Pecker gets Trump promoting his magazine & who knows what else

since blackmailing is done in secret, we would have no idea what they may have gotten (although i doubt his friends & employees blackmailed him)

but all of that is irrelevant, i'm saying he's easily blackmailed

any Russia blackmailing would be completely hidden
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Mar 27 17:05:22
"any Russia blackmailing would be completely hidden"

lol
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 17:15:57
are you stupidly suggesting it's impossible that the guy who sleeps w/ porn stars & leaves money for them on the dresser, might've taken up a hooker offer when in Russia?

or are you stupidly suggesting that it would be obvious if it was happening?

----

recall this gem:
"
Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded.
"

if Trump fully in charge, Russia would be protecting our elections
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 17:24:46
around that same time is when Trump was complaining it wasn't 17 agencies but only 4 who concluded it was Russia (yes, any media saying '17' shouldn't have, but it was still unanimous conclusion as only 4 were looking into it)

the only reason to complain it was 'only 4' is to pretend the others didn't agree or that 4 isn't enough

there is NO reason to mention it if agreeing w/ the unanimous conclusion

(and he provided NO evidence to doubt it beyond Putin's word)
kargen
Member
Wed Mar 27 17:25:14
See that is where you had me confused tumbleweed. You asked for a single instance of President Trump criticizing Russia. I answered that with the nerve gas thing then I moved on.

You went back to it so now I want to know what was the purpose for commenting on the nerve gas attack.

And all the people got those things with their daily dealings of President Trump without resorting to blackmail. Most that you mentioned got all that long before President Trump decided to run for office.

And if Russia had anything on President Trump why are they putting up with the added sanctions? Why keep it secret? It should be obvious to them now President Trump even if he wanted to can't wave a magic wand and make Russia all better. If their end goal is to undermine the USA the last thing they would want to do is sit on a secret that would cause the president grief.

Maybe Putin is hoping President Trump will build a new 200 room hotel in Russia once he is no longer president so Putin is undermining the best interests if Russia in that pursuit? There is no evidence proving otherwise. And of course Putin wanting to profit from that would keep it hidden.

Turns out I can offer up a scenario as nutty as yours. Difference is I don't believe mine while you are fully delusional and believe what you are typing.

Or trolling in which case great job!
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 17:45:50
"what was the purpose for commenting on the nerve gas attack"

he was asked the question at a press event so he had to comment, you'll find no tweets of him condemning it or anything else by Russia

----------

"why are they putting up with the added sanctions?"

Trump hasn't advocated for any sanctions, only the opposite

----------

"If their end goal is to undermine the USA the last thing they would want to do is sit on a secret that would cause the president grief."

Trump is undermining the USA on a daily basis... you think declaring Dems are anti-Jewish (not just anti-Israel, though he says that too), and that the DOJ is corrupt, and that judges are politically biased, that all mainstream media is fake, etc. is not making Russia thrilled?

---------

do you feel his attitude toward Russia is completely normal?

the President not caring one bit about them attacking our election is fine?

& i noted plenty other weird issues in the "Wed Mar 27 01:15:33"

i don't know if he's being blackmailed... (although there's more options then just his love of sex, there's also his love of $... he has Russian mobsters/money-launderers living in Trump Tower... he got a suspiciously high profit from selling a property in FL to a Russian...)

but... there is definitely something bizarre going on

again... i've asked it a million times... why was Trump out saying it was only 4 agencies that concluded Russia interfered; that they are too smart so if it was them they wouldn't get caught; bringing up Iraq WMD mistakes; that it couldn't be known since the DNC server wasn't seized; that it was a hoax by the DNC & never happened (no acknowledgement that it was more than DNC hacked)... he had all sorts of efforts to undermine our intel agencies conclusions on this topic... W.H.Y.?

(a mentally fit reason, i can explain w/ non-fit reasons)

this is all on interference NOT collusion
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 27 17:56:35
my best guess would likely be that he's both mentally unfit AND likes Russia due to financial benefit (no blackmail)

if you keep feeding a retarded child, he will consider you a friend... and plenty of indication he's made a lot of money from Russia... & that he's a retarded child
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