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Utopia Talk / Politics / MAGA hat kids harass war vet II
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 22 16:23:23
Obam
My understanding is that the first video was a lot shorter. Not fake, but did not cover the 3rd party in the incident.

3rd party activity can certainly be construed as mitigating, but what was filmed in the initial video did in fact take place.

We will just have to wait for the school to reach its conclusions on an incident that took place during a school activity under school supervision.

The media was of course way out of line like I said.

Forwyn
Feel free to correct me if I have missed something:

1. A hate groups acted outrageously

2. A school outing acted outrageously

3. A native American inserted himself between them and played a drum.

4. The media did not protect the minors from scrutiny and in particular used imagery in their stories (that the imagery existed on the net anyway is beside the point).

5. The school is investigating the incident.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 22 16:31:17
Yelling build the wall at a political protest is not outrageous.

Fake outrage is as fake as fake indian vietnam vet.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 22 16:38:04
Sammy
From school perspective, it was actually a supervised school activity in support of free choice.

It actually just boils down to one thing:

1. Did the boys follow the instruction given them by their caretakers, or did they not?

If they followed all instructions given, then otherwise outrageous behaviour is actually the schools fault.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 22 16:38:43
The only real outrage is the media coverage. The boys should have been protected.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 22 16:49:44
"The only real outrage is the media coverage. The boys should have been protected."

Correct. Holy shit jergul said something bright.
kargen
Member
Tue Jan 22 17:09:44
You say what happened in the initial video did in fact take place and yeah it did. So without the narrative what took place? Two people stared at each other one of them beating a drum. Look at where the guy with the drum was holding the drum and without any of the later commentary by the drummer what does it look like is happening in that video?

Video may not lie (we all know it can) but narrative based on the video is often a lie.
Y2A
Member
Tue Jan 22 17:24:23
The kid was a shithead, doesn't matter that some random group of black skinheads were talking shit before hand, the native guy had nothing to do with that.
obaminated
Member
Tue Jan 22 17:26:32
Hey look, another useful idiot for the cancerous left.
kargen
Member
Tue Jan 22 17:33:46
The kid was a shithead why? Just because he had a silly look on his face while some idiot stood there pounding on a drum right in his face.

I have a sneaky suspicion that kid handled it much better than most of us would have at his age.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Jan 22 17:46:35
"1. A hate groups acted outrageously

2. A school outing acted outrageously"

Well, we've hit a snag already. You're presenting the two as roughly equal, either intentionally or unintentionally, and they're not comparable. You have one group of adults flinging racist, homophobic shit at kids. You have kids shouting school chants to drown them out.

"3. A native American inserted himself between them and played a drum."

True, but missing context. He emerged from the BHI crowd, never stated his intentions or clarified himself, and one of his entourage was shouting at the kids to go back to Europe, that this isn't their land, etc.

So Phillips, even if he meant to be a neutral mediator, which is called into question by his subsequent statements and by the actions of his peers, either didn't think of how his actions would be interpreted, or knowingly set out to evoke a response and then misrepresent the situation.

"4. The media did not protect the minors from scrutiny"

True. And social media figures went beyond that, doxxing a kid, which has led to death threats for the family and subsequent hiring of a PR firm. Should probably be some jail terms attached, but it'll be ignored.

"Yelling build the wall at a political protest is not outrageous."

There's actually zero proof that this was ever chanted. Which is to say, there's as much proof that Phillips served in Vietnam.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 22 17:56:20
Lol y2a you utter retard, the redskin decided to get involved, not the other way around
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 22 18:51:19
Forwyn
Ok, lets use the word "disorderly".

The boys were under supervision. The core of the matter really rests on what instructions the teachers gave and to what extent the boys followed the instructions.

Kargen
The correct way of acting is doing what the teachers leading the group told the kids to do. In fact, that is the only option if disciplinary measures are to be avoided.
kargen
Member
Tue Jan 22 20:17:07
According to chaperones the students were gathered there so they could board a bus and when the black group began yelling racist comments at the students teachers gave them permission to do school cheers to drown out the racist comments. You don't see teachers trying to wrangle the students in any way so it looks like they were waiting for the bus just like they were suppose to. After the cheers started is when the drummer decided to do his thing.

I do know the drummer walked right up to that kid stuck the drum in his face and started banging the drum. When he started doing that you could hear people that were a part of the drummers group yelling you better not touch him. The drummer and his pals wanted the situation to escalate. They wanted to start shit with a bunch of kids.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 02:44:35
Kargen
No way the drummer wanted escalation. It goes against the whole spirituality of using it. It protects. It does not harm (we have the same thing here. I am quite familiar with drumming of that type).

The boys are fine if indeed they followed their supervisors instructions. I rather suspect they did not. But that will be uncovered by the investigation.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 02:55:45
Killing innocent people goes against the the spiritual foundation of Islam. Yet suicide bombing is a thing among people who call themselves are Muslims and excuses are regularly made to bypass this.

Magical drums do not prohibit people from using them incorrectly. The people with the ”peaceful” drummer, were yelling at the kids to go back to Europe. Arguably not a very peaceful thing to say.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 04:18:14
I am going with he felt it offered protection given that there were actually 100ds of boys and his hands were busy drumming.

But feel free to shrill on.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 04:31:06
I can’t read minds so I don’t know what he felt. Maybe it is an indiginous people thing? You can read each others minds?

Defensive objects can also be used offensivly, speculations about magical weapons if fun!
kargen
Member
Wed Jan 23 04:35:55
Watch the video and pay attention to where the drum is being held when he is hitting it. It is inches from the boys face. It actually looks like it brushes the boys shoulder a couple of times though that could be camera angle. Still if the drum is so close we can't tell if it touched the boy or not that is to close to the boy. That drummer was trying to provoke.

And why do you suspect that the boys did not follow supervisor instructions. Do you see alarmed looks on the supervisors faces as they try to steer the children away from the confrontation? Do you here them saying/yelling anything?

The real concern here might be that a chaperone didn't step between the student and the drummer because they had no real idea what that drummers intentions were. THe drummer pulled the same stunt a few years back claiming students started the confrontation then and shouted racial slurs at him. Pretty much the same thing he claimed this time though it was build that wall instead of racial slurs. He lied this time for certain because we see it from many angles and we can't hear the students shout build that wall. We do hear on of his associates yell go back to Europe.

The history and the videos point to this person trying to start shit with the students. He wants to be a victim. He has kinda made a career out of playing the victim.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 04:45:12
Kargen
"And why do you suspect that the boys"

"It goes against the whole spirituality of using it. It protects. It does not harm (we have the same thing here. I am quite familiar with drumming of that type)."

Because of a spiritual connection between groups who have been tolerated the right to use their group belonging as a weapon to disperse crowds, silence criticism and bash others over the head with.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 05:04:50
Kargen
Escalating from Maga uniforms and dances specifically designed to provoke enemies would involve an old man getting beaten to pulp by one or many of the 100ds of boys.

I do not see it. I see a drummer who believes he is protected and expects the boys to defer to an elder.

I hope for your narrative's sake that the supervisors had indeed instructed the boys to pull back and they were in fact waiting at an assembly point for their buses.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 08:25:53
The drummer was culturally ignorant and misread the situation as a conflict in need of his magical peace drums. That is not how Aryan people display aggressive behavior, as an Aryan myself it is clear to me they were celebrating. Had these Aryans been on a war path, he would be dead. The fact that the Aryan boy stands with his arms behind his back, smiling is enough evidence for me. These are well known signals, ”I do not precieve you as a threat and come in peace” in Aryan cultures. Drums however have always been used as an instrument of war across most Aryan cultures. But since the drummer is alive, we can conclude that the Aryans understood this.

This is nothing a little cultural training couldn’t fix. Teach the drummer the noble ways of the Aryan culture.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 08:35:21
Yepp, it is pretty clear the boy (of undefined heritage) did not think the drum player was threatening.

Note: In the west, our pedigrees more murky than in Iran as we lack the dedication to have children with our cousins.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 08:35:37
are more murky*
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 08:40:35
Key word here being ”culture”, racist. And generally we don’t talk about humans las showdogs having a ”pedigree”. Tsk tsk tsk. You still have much to learn, savage.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 08:57:03
But since you brought it up :) Cousin fucking is much more prevelant in the norther sparesly populated (duh) areas of Scandinavia than in the south or the ”West”. How else does your 100 000 strong tribe remain a tribe? Inbreeding. It is common in the Göteborg archipelago as well, relative to the rest of the country.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 08:59:24
Generally, the term Aryan has been ruined by pre-war racial and social Darwinism. In the West, a person calling himself Aryan is a racist 9 times of 10.

Its different in Iran of course. The odds would be 99 times of 100.

jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 09:05:57
"The overall rate of consanguineous marriage was 38.6% with a mean inbreeding coefficient (alpha) of 0.0185. First cousin marriages (27.9%) were the most common form of consanguineous union, with parallel patrilateral marriage especially favoured."

Guess what country that is. Generation after generation after generation.

Nimi explained!
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 09:16:57
Incidentally, cousin marriage are a rural, not a fishing or migratory tradition. Mobility gives access to a wide selection of partners. Cousin marriages were illegal until the Reformation and generally frowned on. At its highest in the 19th century rural level, it reached 2.8%. Compared to Iran's current 38.6%.

Statistically, nimis parents or either set of grandparents were cousins. Anecdotally, I have no examples of forbears being cousins in any calculable degree (there is no heritage site overlap).

But I am of migratory stock.
obaminated
Member
Wed Jan 23 09:22:57
God damnit, another thread hijacked by jergul and nim.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 10:33:03
Obam
Not so much hijacked as fighting in the backseat. I am happy to respond to reasonable posts too.
obaminated
Member
Wed Jan 23 11:36:10
you are not reasonable and there is no benefit to responding to you. you don't learn. you are either paid to espouse pro-russian/anti-west talking points or you are a complete idiot who can't learn and doesn't change. there is no fun in talking to a predictable person. and you are a predictable person.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 12:18:11
Cousin fucking is bad, but it is also adaptiv in places with lots of tribal conflict. If you read your own study, you will be pleased to see that the ethnic groups that I come from (Persian and Azari), have the lowest rate of cousin fucking. So, you must be judged by the environment you live in. Then of course the urban and rural. My family are urbanites. Then class and education. Cousin fucking is frowned upon in my extended family even though culturally permissible, the couple of instance it was brought up was instantly slapped down.

The ME is a rough neighborhood jergul, by all measures my tribe has been tested and prevailed against Romans, Greeks, Mongols and Arabs where you were subjugated by Swedes. We contributed to the legacy of Science and history. Evolutionary been very successful counting in the triple digit millions. What did your people do? To this day you are best known for living in huts and herding reindeer. Judging by the large Iranian diaspora, across multiple countries and climate (even the arctic) we have shown a great capacity to adapt and prosper. You people stayed up there in your huts slowly going extinct. Cousin fucking or not, we are objectively superior to you as a tribe :P
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 12:22:29
Obaminated
Do we really need to keep talking about this shitty non story that is only a product of the social media outrage algorithm? How about we make a promise to not fuel this kind of shit? Stop watching mainstream media, make sure not a fucking dime of your money be it ads or otherwise goes to the kind of outlets that manufacture this kind of disagrace and uses twitter as an editorial board for "what real people actually think". We all close down our facebook page and stop being a product.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 13:01:28
Obam
You have the right to your opinion, no matter how misguided.

Nimi
Strong words from a migrant who fled his tribe.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Jan 23 14:01:04
Not a war vet
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 14:03:27
Adapted to changing circumstances. Prosper across continents over millenias. Sure my tribe has seen better days, but also much worse. Tested and tempered, we remain and multiply. Your people never experienced greatness nor any hardship and will slip into the night without having left any mark. Makes me feel like a WINNER!

Loser :P
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 14:55:43
"Adapted to changing circumstances"

Yepp, your people will enter the 19th century any day now.

Let us celebrate it is 90 years since slavery ended in Iran and Nimi's forbears were set free.

In 1929. Lulz.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 14:59:10
"Strong words from >a migrant< who fled his tribe."

You talked about me. I belong to the same genepool. We adapted, not everyone adapts, they die.

Loser :)
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 15:03:48
And the rest will catch up, we look and learn faster than you are breeding.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 23 15:05:30
And you can't go all Anti-Iranian on me after all these years of talking about "the science output of Iran" and so on. Your support for the Iranian regime cracking down on dissidents and democracy advocates. No no, you can't eat this cake.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 23 15:15:57
Well, they either die, or they marry their cousin. A coin toss really.

The genepool you come from is mostly of inbreeding slaves.

What does evolution say about inbreeding?

Nimi explained!
The Children
Member
Wed Jan 23 15:38:15
OFF TO DA GULAGS WITH HIM!!!
The Children
Member
Wed Jan 23 15:44:21
SEND DA BOY 2 DA SIBERIAN RE EDUCATION CAMP!

WIPE THAT FRATBOY SMILE OFF HIS SMUG FACE
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 24 01:02:03
It shows that cousin fucking can be adaptive.
What does reality say about my genepool? Zero risk for inbreeding, cousin fucking will increase in the short term because lots of cousins, but because of urbanization and education gets better it is decreasing as a phenomena. Meanwhile your people are critically endangered because you lack greatness.

Loser :)
jergul
large member
Thu Jan 24 01:25:47
Cousin fucking over the generations seems above all to give fundamentalists and suicide bombers. Best termed perhaps as a viral death cult.

But sure. Evolution is mutation driven. And nothing says mutation like being the offspring of cousin fuckers.

Now, assuming Iran does enter the 19th century any day now and projecting a short 350 years:

If humanity is going to survive at all, then it will do so from a long term population base of about 200 million. My tribe will be about 100 thousand of those.

So will yours for that matter.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 24 01:53:24
All I heard is bla bla bla I’m a dirty loser.

Jergul math vs reality.

Loser :)
jergul
large member
Thu Jan 24 05:39:26
Nimi
You are not a dirty loser. Don't be so hard on yourself.

And sure, you genes are well adapted to the ecosystem they developed in. Thanks in no small part to your enhanced mutation rate.

You find cousins sexy. That is a huge adaptation (humans usually react negatively to pheromones to too similar to their own). And howling at the moon. You have a definite advantage. Fundamentalism? You win there. Substance abuse? Three gold stars in your book after only centuries of hashish and opium exposure.

The ME is such a winning culture. Really. Full of win.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 24 13:30:36
>>You are not a dirty loser. Don't be so hard on yourself.<<

Wow nice come back. I don’t see no reason to do any better.
I know you are, but what am I?

Yes I have many hot cousins. They are objectively nominally handsome men and beautiful women. So what?

Like I said, what tests have your people been put through? What have you achieved? Nothing?

Nobody wishes to grow up in a rough neighborhood, but those that do, survive and make it out to create a better life, have every right to be proud. Certainly nothing I am ashamed of. I am the globalist rags to riches story. I grew up in one of the world roughest hoods, went school got a degree and now we here, nigga!! Started from the bottom, now we're here
Started from the bottom, now my whole team fuckin' here!
jergul
large member
Thu Jan 24 13:36:28
"I have many hot cousins"

Wow.
jergul
large member
Thu Jan 24 13:37:20
You are a breed apart. I mean that literally.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 24 13:47:54
I have the self control to acknowledge beauty in people without wanting to fuck them. It’s called being a man.

”We don’t need more evolutionary explanations, because bad things will come”

”I can’t say that my cousin is good looking, otherwise I will rape her”.

I see the pattern.
jergul
large member
Thu Jan 24 14:20:22
You have the genetic predisposition to find your cousins sexy. It really is an amazing adaptation. It usually leads to genetic extinction you see.

I just don't. I have no idea how "objectively" attractive they might be.

I blame my genetic predisposition.
Nekran
Member
Thu Jan 24 15:06:58
"I grew up in one of the world roughest hoods"

This thread doesn't interest me at all, but this caught my eye. You live in Sweden. There's no way that statement is even nearly true.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 24 16:00:32
"This thread doesn't interest me at all"

Then keep out of it, I don't have time to bring you up to speed to a decade of flaming and trolling.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 24 16:05:24
Jergul
I think my sister is beautiful, I think my mother is beautiful, for a women pushing 60 she is a godess. They have good taste and style as well. Not all beauty is sexual. Your distaste for your own kind explains why you are going extinct. Your inability to distinguish objective facts from your sexual emotions, explains why you are a immature loser.
jergul
large member
Thu Jan 24 16:17:20
Well of course you do. Breeding and the resulting pheromone attraction would suggest that you would.


kargen
Member
Fri Jan 25 20:42:51
http://www...01/covington-bishop-letter.jpg
jergul
large member
Sat Jan 26 02:23:21
Entirely fair if we assume the investigation is truly independent. We should wait for that.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 28 05:23:51
What is curious is that the real overt and explicit racist scumbags who started this whole thing, gor away scotch free. No one is more punchable and worthy of hate than a white boy with a MAGA hat.



http://nym...abyss-of-hate-versus-hate.html

...
What I saw was extraordinary bigotry, threats of violence, hideous misogyny, disgusting racism, foul homophobia, and anti-Catholicism — not by the demonized schoolboys, but by grown men with a bullhorn, a small group of self-styled Black Hebrew Israelites. They’re a fringe sect — but an extremely aggressive one — known for inflammatory bigotry in public. The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated them a hate group: “strongly anti-white and anti-Semitic.” They scream abuse at gays, women, white people, Jews, interracial couples, in the crudest of language. In their public display of bigotry, they’re at the same level as the Westboro Baptist sect: shockingly obscene. They were the instigators of the entire affair.

And yet the elite media seemed eager to downplay their role, referring to them only in passing, noting briefly that they were known to be anti-Semitic and anti-gay. After several days, the New York Times ran a news analysis on the group by John Eligon that reads like a press release from the sect: “They shout, use blunt and sometimes offensive language, and gamely engage in arguments aimed at drawing listeners near.” He notes that “they group people based on what they call nations, believing that there are 12 tribes among God’s chosen people. White people are not among those tribes, they believe, and will therefore be servants when Christ returns to Earth.” Nothing to see here, folks. Just a bunch of people preaching the enslavement of another race in public on speakers in the most inflammatory language imaginable.

Eligon actually writes: “Whatever tensions are sparked by Hebrew Israelite teaching, some adherents chalk that up to people being unwilling to accept uncomfortable doctrine.” The Washington Post ran a Style section headline about “the calculated art of making people uncomfortable.” In a news story entirely about the Black Israelites, the Washington Post did not quote a single thing they had said on the tape, gave a respectful account of their theology, and only mentioned their status as a “hate group” in the 24th paragraph, and put the term in scare quotes. Vox managed to write an explainer that also did not include a single example of any of the actual insults hurled at the Covington kids. Countless near-treatises were written parsing the layers of bigotry inside a silent schoolboy’s smirk.

Here’s what I saw on the full tape: a small group of aggressive, hateful men using a bullhorn to broadcast the crudest of racial slurs, backed up by recitations of Bible verses. I saw a young Native American woman make the mistake of engaging them. When she stood her ground, she was suddenly interrupted: “You’re out of order. Where’s your husband? Where’s your husband? Let me speak to him.” On the tape, you can hear the commentary from another member of the Black Israelites: “You see this? This is the problem, Israel. It’s always our women coming up with their loud mouth, thinking they can run and bogart things, thinking they can come and distract things with their loud-ass mouth, because they’re not used to dealing with real men. You think we’re supposed to bow down to your damn emotions when you come around here and run your mouth and distract what we’re doing instead of coming here with order … She’s coming around here being wicked.”

Wait, there’s more. Hollering through a bullhorn at a group of Native Americans, the speaker boomed: “You ain’t no child of God. You are the Indian. You are a blue-eyed demon. That’s the last Mohican.” Then: “You’re still worshipping totem poles. You out of your mind! You have to repent. You worship the buffalo. You worship the eagle. You worship the phoenix. These are the idols you’ve been worshipping. A damn buffalo ain’t gonna save you. You worship the creations and not the creator … That’s why you’re drunkards in the casinos and the damn plantation.” Another: “Dumb-ass niggers. Bunch of demons. You’re a bunch of Uncle Tomahawks.” They snarled the word “savages” at Native Americans. The yelling was deafening, aggressive, vile, and threatening. But an inscrutable smile by a white teen was enough for some elite liberals to urge punching a schoolboy in the face.

Here is how the Black Israelites verbally assaulted the schoolboys: “Bring your cracker ass up here. Dirty ass crackers, your day coming. We can give a hell about your police. No one’s playing with these dusty-ass crackers.” Another: “Don’t get too close or your ass gonna get punished … You crackers are some slithery ass bastards. You better keep your distance.” And this, surveying the scene: “I see you, a bunch of incest babies … Babies made out of incest. If you’re the great damn nation, get rid of the lice on your back. … You’re a bunch of hyenas. You outnumber us but you keep your distance. You couldn’t touch us if you wanted to. You worship blasphemy.”

Then they took it up a notch: “Look at these dirty-ass crackers. You’re a bunch of future school-shooters. You crackers are crazy. You crackers have got some damn nerve …” And again: “When you guys gonna shoot up another school? You all gonna shoot up a school.” Yes, the man was accusing a bunch of schoolboys from Kentucky of wanting to murder their classmates — solely because they’re white.

Once the Israelites figured out the kids were Catholic, they offered this about what appeared to be a picture of the Pope: “This is a faggot child-molester.” And this about Donald Trump: “He’s a product of sodomy and he’s proud. Your president is a homosexual. … It says on the back of the dollar bill that ‘In God We Trust,’ and you give faggots rights.” At that homophobic outburst, the kids from the Catholic school spontaneously booed.

The boys — stuck waiting for a bus — decided to respond to this assault by performing school chants. Most look a little bewildered, as one might imagine. Some even tried to engage. Here are the spoken words I heard, in response to the abuse: “That’s racist, bro.” “That’s rude.” “Why are you being mean? Why do you call us Klansmen?” “We don’t judge you.” One of them offered to shake hands, and was rebuffed. Another offered some water from a plastic bottle. The response? “You got some Trump water? What does it taste like? Incest?”
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 05:50:10
Got away Scott-free (a derogatory slang term incidentally. Not as bad as to Welsh someone, but still)?

We know the group pushes freedom of expression.

In the case of the boys, it is not that they went too far with freedom of expression. The question is if they acted within guidelines and instructions of their school.

The school certainly does not want to belong to the same category as Phelps Church Westboro, so maintains higher standards of conduct.

One would hope.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 28 05:53:14
"In the case of the boys, it is not that they went too far with freedom of expression. The question is if they acted within guidelines and instructions of their school."

Completely false. The social media outrage that took place was not over whether or not they adhered to conduct guidelines. Why do you insist on arguing something completely irrelevant?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 28 06:08:16
I think the school has already realized their mistake in saying they were sorry. Give the vultures a finger and they will feast on your carcass.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 06:36:46
Ruggy
The social media outrage is about the perception that the boys did not adhere to some undefined code of conduct.

The only relevant code of conduct would be the school's.

Meaning that the boys will be disciplined if in breach of that code, and outrage can be redirected towards an institution instead of young individuals if the school finds the boys were not in breach of the code.

Though I am certain that dress code recommendations will be part of the investigation's findings.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 28 07:16:37
Jergul,

That is so mindnumbingly stupid. Social media outrage is not predicated upon the code of conduct of some private Kentucky Catholic school. Since you are presumably an adult, I shouldn't have to even explain that.

I'll say this only one more time. The school may find that the students violated some sort of conduct standards, or it may find that they didn't. That's not the same as whether the students were at fault for the incident, or whether their behavior warranted the backlash that followed.

At this point you're just perpetuating the argument for the sake of trying to seek a out a draw. You should just admit that you lost and quit already.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 07:31:16
Ruggy
We know their behaviour did not warrant the backlash. They are minors.

The matter can be put to rest in two ways:

1. Disciplinary sanctions for not adhering to the school's code of conduct.

2. Outrage at the institution for having a provocative code of conduct.

MAGA is probably not a good school uniform. Haka is probably not a good school dance.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 28 07:32:04
Nimatzo,

From a PR perspective, I'd say that the school was trying to be prudent in its initial reaction. Most PR experts would tell you that when dealing with a crisis situation, you need to have to make an immediate response, you have to acknowledge wrongdoing and you have to apologize for the incident. If in doubt, throw the students under the bus in the process.

Whether that strategy actually works is another question. In this case, the answer seems to be no.

And of course, the fact that the school ultimately backtracked from its initial statement completely torpedoes jergul's claim that the school was uniquely qualified as an authority of facts due to its impressive network of chaperone informants. Turns out they were just as uninformed as the rest of us.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 28 07:46:21
Jergul,

Loaded argument which presupposes the students were at fault and that their behavior would have warranted the social media outrage had they been 18. Not taking the bait.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 07:57:59
Ruggy
Social media outrage is to be expected when demonstrating for pro-choice, while doing hakus and wearing MAGA. All four fall under freedom of expression.



jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 08:01:23
Ruggy
The supervisors certainly knew what happened and are responsible for what happened. Its like you forget that the boys were there as part of a school activity.

Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 28 08:19:38
Jergul,

Theres no point in debating you if you're going to blatantly ignore facts.

The second school statement is relevant for contextualizing the first. More broadly, the full two hour video is relevant for contextualizing the video that set off the outrage in the first place.

You want someone to hurl righteous outrage at? Start with the Black Hebrew Israelites who were the actual instigators of the whole thing.

I'll not even get into your arguments that First Amendment rights shouldn't exist for students, or that displaying the presidents campaign insignia justified the massive levels of abuse heaped upon a group of teenagers and their school. Life's too short after all.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 08:32:47
Ruggy
The parents did hire a libel lawyer and police are investigating possible crimes. So of course things outside freedom of expression should and will be dealt with.

MAGA, pro-choice and Hakus fall under freedom of expression too. But they are hardly not provocative.

Now, if you are arguing that the school and the kids are the same thing as BHI and Phelps, then fair enough. "Zealots. What did you expect?" End of story.

I am quite interested in the school investigation findings. When they are released.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 28 08:39:09
Rugian
I understand, but I believe that the recent couple of years is full of examples and good reasons for why people and organisations need to rethink that position. Good for the school that they realized that they - a white catholic all boy school - were never on the market for being forgive for anything, real or imagined.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 28 08:55:55
Nim,

I agree with you - from a common sense standpoint, apologizing was never going to satiate the mob, and all it accomplished was to give them more ammo. The problem is that the idea that you should apologize is so prevalent that it would likely have been seen as an error had they not done so. Not saying it's right, but it's almost a matter of proforma in this day and age.

Jergul,

Can you at least get the basic facts right? Its pro-life and haka. I was going to let it go the first time, but then you repeated it.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 09:56:59
Ruggy
Ok.
TJ
Member
Mon Jan 28 10:50:52
Diocese of Covington

"My dear Covington Catholic Parents"

blah blah blah

1st reaction was to sacrifice their parishioners children to the wolves. Sound familiar?

"Yours devotedly in the Lord
Bishop of Covington"

Go figure, so much between the lines that expose true intent. Upset the Temple. Holy Crap...
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 11:20:32
TJ
"so much between the lines that expose true intent"

Reading between the lines is why I am pretty sure the first letter was supported by supervisor opinion.

If I am going to be outraged by anything, then it is the school fragmenting responsibility.

The boys were participating in a school outing. The school is responsible for their behaviour.
TJ
Member
Mon Jan 28 12:25:50
There was nothing wrong with their behavior that has surfaced to date other than twisted assumptions and favored identity politics.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 12:51:39
TJ
The school is responsible for their good or bad or indifferent behaviour.

The school is not owning that responsibility.
Tj
Member
Mon Jan 28 12:57:55
jergul:

I wasn't exactly pleasant with my remarks toward the Diocese concerning their supposedly Holy leadership. Lets not talk around one another.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 28 13:42:27
1. Suspicion of wrongdoing
2. School investigates and concludes
3. Diocese has oversight and is appeal.

Correct procedure

1. Suspicion of wrongdoing
2. School does cursory investigation
3. School apologizes prematurely at best
4. Diocese apologizes prematurely at best
5. School retracts apology
6. Diocese retracts apology
7. School initiates proper investigation
8. Diocese supports school

Wrong procedure.
TJ
Member
Mon Jan 28 14:20:24
jergul:

Suspicion should have had no place in procedure.

Handling complaints of wrong doing.

Correct procedure from my viewpoint:

1) School leadership investigates and delivers conclusion to Diocese leadership.

2) Diocese responsible for oversight verification of findings and authorization of media release.

Public opinion forced the absence of due process. My conclusion-incompetence-of leadership. They should have a procedure documented to be followed.

Seems as I stated correctly. We are basically talking around one another.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Feb 16 13:50:36
Jergul
You will be happy to know that the independent investigation cleared the kids of any racism or slurs. And that a libel suit is pending towards dozens of media companies and profiles.
Rugian
Member
Sat Feb 16 14:29:06
This doesn't exonerate the students - the full two-hour video of the incident already did that - so much as put the final nail in the coffin. We'll see how enthusiastic CNN and the like are on reporting this soon enough, I'm sure.
NeverWoods
Member
Sat Feb 16 19:22:26
To be honest this incident showed how fucked up are. pissed me off too.

Grown ass verified people on Twitter was calling this kid out and wanted him to get killed and beat up.
WTF this is just a child, what wrong with people.

jergul
large member
Sat Feb 16 20:20:50
Nimi
Link to the press release. Just to put the matter to rest.

The libel suits are irrelevant. But I checked on the position of minors:

http://leg...efamation-character-child.html
obaminated
Member
Sat Feb 16 20:27:18
what wrong with people, indeed.

but as rugian said, we already knew this and i suspect the "independent investigation" knew this weeks ago but decided to hold off on saying anything while the story was making national headlines. they are intellectual cowards who were given the task with mitigating damage. The damage to the kids was already done, the betrayal of the school was already done, all they could do now was release this to exoneration of the students for internal school purposes, not for any public defense of the kids who went through hell thanks to this fucking fake vet and his racist blacks.
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