Utopia Talk / Politics / Establishment Republicans are garbage

Rugian Member	Tue Feb 12 09:10:14 Conceptual deal reached on border security. Republicans get, um, nothing whatsoever, with the only Democratic "concession" coming on the issue of detention beds, which is something they just randomly made up at the last minute. How is it possible to fail this badly? I dont care if GOP donors want open borders so they can hire workers for ten cents an hour; the base wants border security. Fucking cowards. Fuck it, national emergency time. Call it a national security issue and ignore any injunctions from the obstructionist judiciary.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 09:15:05 ^ supporter of dictatorships. Get out of my country, you Nazi fuck.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 12 09:16:50 Hood, At least you acknowledge that Lincoln was a dictator now.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 09:18:32 Your porn shrunk brain shouldn't be working this hard, you're pushing it past its limits.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 12 09:25:12 Hood, The exigencies of national security occasionally justify a disregarding of judicial opinions. Lincoln for one was a huge fan of this line of thinking. As for the unwarranted Nazi accusations...your kind doesnt even belong in this country. Go back to Germany or Russia, you christ-killing fuck.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 09:35:52 See, the issue, that your porn addled brain cannot understand, is the validity of national emergency. Trump just up and declaring one because it might get him his way is very different from "war was just fucking declared." "unwarranted Nazi accusations" I think you need to look up the definition of unwarranted, proud boy.
McKobb Member	Tue Feb 12 09:52:16 Fuck that. Out of control eo's are not the way to go.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Feb 12 09:58:02 I see the alien appropriation of the Hotrodian entity and symbiotic merging with the Rugian persona is now complete.
kargen Member	Tue Feb 12 11:26:02 This whole wall thing doesn't have anything to do with the wall. I thought the main reason Democrats opposed the wall was simply because they are still butt hurt over Hillary not winning. Probably is the reason but a 2nd reason might also be the cause. Again not about the wall. President Obama introduced a supplemental spending plan that will expire at the end of 2019. If President Trump doesn't extend the spending then 59 billion dollars of spending the Democrats want is simply gone. President Trump doesn't have to do anything to make it go away as it will expire if nothing is done. Democrats might be holding the wall hostage to get that spending package extended. Some are suggesting instead of threatening an executive order President Trump should start touting the idea that he has found a way to save the government 59 billion dollars starting in 2020 so the cost of building a wall can easily be offset. Also might be funds available without the executive order.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 11:42:33 The wall is absolutely pointless. It's trying to (badly) solve a problem that doesn't exist. "Some are suggesting instead of threatening an executive order President Trump should start touting the idea that he has found a way to save the government 59 billion dollars" So blatant lying? I guess that fits in with everything else. What's one more lie?
kargen Member	Tue Feb 12 11:54:49 Blatant lying? If he doesn't extend the spending that saves 59 billion dollars. If you ares spending 59 billion dollars and all of a sudden you are not guess what that means. 59 billion saved. The wall or some kind of barrier is needed to cause choke points. Without some type of barrier most the technology they want at points of entry would be useless. People tend to take the path of least resistance. As it becomes more difficult to cross at points of entry more people will risk crossing at other locations. A wall will make it more difficult deterring some people from even attempting to cross.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 12:01:33 The spending has an end date. There is no savings, because there's no plan or budget for it to continue. As of right now, there are $0.00 of that 59 billion on the books moving forward. Going from $0.00 to $0.00 is a savings of $0.00. Any argument to the contrary is either blatant stupidity or lying. @ your stupid wall paragraph: What problem are you solving? I didn't ask for an explanation of the purpose of walls, I stated that the wall doesn't solve any problems.
kargen Member	Tue Feb 12 12:59:04 What problem am I solving? None. What problem am I making better? Illegal crossings at the border. New technology at points of entry will not solve the problem either so why bother? The answer is of course, it helps. If we were to streamline the process of entering legally and make it much tougher to enter illegally that would help with all kinds of problems. One example being the exploitation of those who do successfully enter the country illegally. A few anecdotal examples for you. A construction company I worked for summers during college hired some illegal immigrants. They would withhold taxes and FIFA from the checks but never report the withholding. An apartment complex in Dallas I had the misfortune of living in for about a year always tried to collect rent through cash. The manager would then pocket some of the rent and list the apartment as empty. Worse from time to time they would put a message on every apartment door claiming a fee was needed for something. Once it was an extra fifty dollars to pay for garbage removal because of excessive garbage beside dumpsters. The excess was caused because the apartment complex didn't pay for pick-up but that doesn't matter. When I would get a message on my door I would go tell the manager I wasn't going to pay and she would say oh that wasn't meant for you. The illegal immigrants would pay the extra fees because of the fear of being kicked out if they didn't. And a rancher in Kansas was jailed a couple of years ago for bank fraud. During that investigation they found he had over a period of time told 23 workers he would get them social security numbers but all the numbers were fake. He did withhold money though and there was no way the workers could get it back. Working to secure our border and speed up legal entry into the country would lower the incidents of that kind of abuse. And oh by the way it would give us the added benefit of maybe retarding the flow of drugs into the country.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 13:09:27 "What problem am I solving? None. What problem am I making better? Illegal crossings at the border." Retarded word play that fails to understand my point. My point, since you failed to grasp it, was that illegal immigrants being a problem is not immune from needing supporting evidence. The supporting evidence is extremely sparce. There's even less evidence that attempting to stop them at the border would have any tangible effect. That is partly because the "problems" they cause are not tangible; they're statistically insignificant. Your anecdotes are, hilariously, anecdotes of legal citizens breaking the law and abusing people. Cracking down on illegal immigrants would have what effect, exactly, on scummy corporate/landlord behavior? Distilled stupidity.
Forwyn Member	Tue Feb 12 13:12:57 Curiously, those who whine the loudest about wage stagnation ignore the effects of mass migration on the wages of unskilled laborers.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 13:18:40 "mass migration" eh? You mean like how the estimated number of illegal immigrants in the US has been dropping since 2007? Good effort.
Forwyn Member	Tue Feb 12 13:29:32 "In absolute numbers, the United States has a larger immigrant population than any other country, with 47 million immigrants as of 2015." Good effort.
hood Member	Tue Feb 12 13:47:21 "In absolute numbers" Self pwnt in the first three words. And that's just the beginning of your complete failure. It's best you just leave.
Forwyn Member	Tue Feb 12 13:56:06 Only if you're illiterate.
patom Member	Tue Feb 12 13:58:58 Forwyn, how many of the 47 million are here illegally? Kargen, build a gazebo with a roof on it. When it rains how much of the rain is kept from reaching the ground?
Forwyn Member	Tue Feb 12 14:03:23 10-15 million, depending who you ask.
kargen Member	Tue Feb 12 14:09:14 "Your anecdotes are, hilariously, anecdotes of legal citizens breaking the law and abusing people. Cracking down on illegal immigrants would have what effect, exactly, on scummy corporate/landlord behavior?" Yes they are. And can you guess why they are able to take advantage of those illegal immigrants? Yep, because they are illegal immigrants. So if we made it easier for them to get here legally and harder for them to get here illegally they wouldn't be such easy targets for abuse. And we both know it isn't just people crossing that border. Sure a wall won't stop the flow but again bottleneck the flow towards a controlled point giving better chance of intercepting. patom when a pipe in your house breaks do you repair the pipe or figure what the hell I need water in my house anyway all over the floor is as good as in the sink. What you do is control the flow. The gazebo roof does what it is suppose to as well. You want to keep a certain area dry. The roof does this by diverting the water elsewhere. So yeah the gazebo is a good example of how a barrier along the border could work.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 12 14:09:55 "We need a smart border wall, not a 3rd century solution" http://www...ll-will-hurd-column/539618001/ article by Will Hurd... a Republican congressman... with more border in his district than anyone (the majority of the Texas border)
McKobb Member	Tue Feb 12 14:19:19 I say use drone bounty hunters. Spot a runner, get a bounty.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 12 14:22:51 do we have photos or video of that place where they drive along then 'turn left' into the country? cause i'd support extending the wall if that place exists ...and removing the President from office if it doesn't
obaminated Member	Wed Feb 13 01:20:58 i am with rugian on this one, but i do like that we are keeping the "porn shrinks the brain" meme. so kudos to hood.
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