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Utopia Talk / Politics / Smollett Allegedly Faked Attack
Forwyn
Member
Thu Feb 14 18:29:12
What a surprise.

CHICAGO -- Chicago police confirmed Thursday that detectives are talking to two persons of interest in connection with the alleged attack on "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett.

Multiple sources have told ABC7 Eyewitness News that police are investigating whether Smollett and the two men staged the attack allegedly because Smollett was being written off of "Empire."

A source familiar with the investigation told the ABC7 I-Team that Smollett failed to appear for an interview with detectives earlier Thursday.

A source briefed on the Smollett investigation confirmed to ABC News that Chicago police are questioning the two persons of interest -- one of whom has appeared on "Empire."

The law enforcement official also told ABC News that the homes of the persons of interest were raided Wednesday night. Police removed shoes, electronic devices and other items they believe could help them they determine if the two people played any role in the assault from those homes.

Chicago police said they "cannot confirm any of those reports." No charges have been filed.

Earlier, police said the two persons of interest are not suspects and have not been charged. Investigators are only talking with them at this time. The two were picked up Wednesday night at O'Hare International Airport, police said.

Smollett said he was attacked around 2 a.m. on Jan. 29 in the 300-block of East North Water Street in Chicago's Streeterville neighborhood. He told police two masked men shouted homophobic slurs at him, attacked him, put a rope around his neck and poured a liquid on him that smelled like bleach.

Smollett, 36, is black and openly gay.

Police said they have not found surveillance video that shows the attack. But earlier in the investigation, they did release grainy surveillance images of two possible persons of interest. The photos show two silhouettes on New Street near Illinois Street between 1:30 a.m. and 1:45 a.m. on Jan. 29.

In a statement released Thursday, police said they identified the two people in the surveillance photos and tracked them down using cameras, public transportation records and corroborating info provided by Smollett.

Smollett spoke exclusively with Robin Roberts on "Good Morning America" Thursday. He reflected on what happened to him that morning and what has happened to him since.

"It's the attackers, but also the attacks," he said, adding of those who don't believe his story, "It's not necessarily that you don't believe that this is the truth, you don't even want to see the truth."
Anthony Guglielmi, spokesman for Chicago Police Department, said earlier Thursday morning that he watched the GMA interview with CPD Superintendent Eddie Johnson. Guglielmi said Smollett's comments on GMA are consistent with what he's told Chicago police. Unfortunately, police have no solid evidence to arrest anyone at this time.

The investigation is ongoing.

http://abc...ng-written-off-empire/5138497/
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Feb 14 18:36:13
The left always falls for this shit.
State Department
Member
Thu Feb 14 20:26:41
Bad (or sick) guy!
hood
Member
Thu Feb 14 21:08:27
Who did what now?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Feb 14 22:42:09
it's just like when Jesus faked his execution
Paramount
Member
Fri Feb 15 01:04:52
If the US had AI surveillance – cameras with face recognition that keeps track of the citizens, like in China, then it would be a lot easier for the police to find and identify suspected criminals.

If the police can’t find criminals and terrorists fast, then it is really worrying and dangerous. It’s a national emergency that the police gets these AI surveillance systems and that they are installed all over the place.
kargen
Member
Fri Feb 15 01:32:54
and if we forced everyone to carry guns someone could have shot these attackers dead.
Victim
Member
Fri Feb 15 04:51:21
http://new...sing-jussie-smollet-1832640508

A spokesperson for the Chicago PD responded to the case on Twitter, stating that “media reports about the Empire incident being a hoax are unconfirmed,” and calling ABC7's sources “uninformed and inaccurate.” Fox and the Empire writers’ room Twitter account both loudly denied that there was any intention of writing Smollett’s character off the show. And Smollett’s representation made it clear that, contrary to Elgas and his team’s initial reporting, Smollett had, in fact, responded to questions from police about the attack earlier today.
NeverWoods
Member
Fri Feb 15 07:20:07
Paramount/kargen.

I really hate both of your stances.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Feb 15 11:06:31
Two black guys who just got back from Nigeria are suspects and were extras on Empire are suspects.

But I'm sure this is still a case of white guys yelling, "This is MAGA country!" hanging a noose around Smollett for being black and gay.

Thanks, AV News.
obaminated
Member
Fri Feb 15 21:31:40
yeah, this is clearly about to blow up for these clowns. the original report was that it was a lynching crowd (complete with rope and maga hats) shouting at this homosexual black actor, while in chicago, that this was "MAGA country". now we find it is two immigrants from nigeria. so no, this was a hoax most of us called immediately when we were given the earliest of details.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Feb 15 22:33:32
the rabid Trump fan who attacked the press in El Paso was real
Forwyn
Member
Fri Feb 15 22:52:02
^lulz
Rugian
Member
Sat Feb 16 11:57:05
Okay this guy is a nut.

"Jussie Smollett hires Michael Cohen's criminal defense attorney as the two Nigerian Empire extras held in his attack are released suddenly without charges after police discover 'new evidence' during interrogation"

http://www...criminal-defense-attorney.html
State Department
Member
Sat Feb 16 18:39:53
Chicago (CNN)Two law enforcement sources with knowledge of the investigation told CNN that Chicago Police believe Jussie Smollett paid two men to orchestrate the assault.

The brothers, who were arrested Wednesday, were released without charges Friday after Chicago police cited the discovery of "new evidence." The sources told CNN that the two men are now cooperating fully with law enforcement.

http://www...sie-smollett-attack/index.html
obaminated
Member
Sat Feb 16 18:47:16
Rofl
State Department
Member
Sat Feb 16 18:59:54
It's been a pretty roughly month or so for the left.
State Department
Member
Sat Feb 16 19:02:45
The false report would be a class 4 felony in IL. I don't suppose that will happen with the risk of rioting.
obaminated
Member
Sat Feb 16 20:16:04
this will be quietly dropped, this is chicago we are talking about.
Rugian
Member
Sun Feb 17 07:15:27
I'm embarrassed that I tried to give this guy a fair shake on his credibility. In hindsight, this had fake news written all over it.

Wonder if these people will be making a similar retraction though:

----

Cory Booker
‏Verified account @CoryBooker

The vicious attack on actor Jussie Smollett was an attempted modern-day lynching. I'm glad he's safe.

To those in Congress who don't feel the urgency to pass our Anti-Lynching bill designating lynching as a federal hate crime– I urge you to pay attention.

http://twitter.com/CoryBooker/status/1090341255786184704

----

Kamala Harris
‏Verified account @KamalaHarris

.@JussieSmollett is one of the kindest, most gentle human beings I know. I’m praying for his quick recovery.

This was an attempted modern day lynching. No one should have to fear for their life because of their sexuality or color of their skin. We must confront this hate.

http://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1090361495119187969

----

Kirsten Gillibrand
‏Verified account @SenGillibrand

Kirsten Gillibrand Retweeted Entertainment Tonight

This is a sickening and outrageous attack, and horribly, it's the latest of too many hate crimes against LGBTQ people and people of color. We are all responsible for condemning this behavior and every person who enables or normalizes it. Praying for Jussie and his family.

http://twitter.com/SenGillibrand/status/1090306824945844225?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

----

Joe Biden
‏Verified account @JoeBiden

Joe Biden Retweeted The New York Times

What happened today to @JussieSmollett must never be tolerated in this country. We must stand up and demand that we no longer give this hate safe harbor; that homophobia and racism have no place on our streets or in our hearts. We are with you, Jussie.

http://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1090422326783606784

----

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
‏Verified account @AOC

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted Entertainment Tonight

There is no such thing as “racially charged.”

This attack was not “possibly” homophobic. It was a racist and homophobic attack.

If you don’t like what is happening to our country, then work to change it. It is no one’s job to water down or sugar-coat the rise of hate crimes.

http://twitter.com/aoc/status/1090491674575454208?lang=en

----

Ellen Page (on that cocksucker Colbert's show):

"Sorry, I’m really fired up tonight, but it feels impossible to not feel this way right now with the President and Vice President Mike Pence, who wishes I couldn’t be married, let’s just be clear. The vice president of America wishes I didn’t have the love with my wife. He wanted to ban that in Indiana. He believes in conversion therapy.

I don’t know [Jussie] personally, I send all of my love — connect the dots, this is what happens. If you are in a position of power and you hate people and you wanna cause suffering to them, you go through the trouble, you spend your career trying to cause suffering, what do you think is going to happen? Kids are going to be abused and they’re going to kill themselves and people are going to be beaten on the street. I have traveled the world and I have met the most marginalized people you could meet. I am lucky to have this time and the privilege to say this. This needs to f**king stop."

Page’s words were met with a standing ovation from The Late Show’s live audience, as she was in tears by the end of her interview.

http://www.etonline.com/ellen-page-tearfully-talks-about-jussie-smollett-and-current-state-of-the-world-118641
Rugian
Member
Sun Feb 17 07:17:10
To say nothing about the news media establishment that uncritically reported this story, and particularly calling out Good Morning America giving this asshole a complete softball interview just days ago.

Between Covington and this, the media seriously needs to self-reflect on its destructive role in contributing to the modern outrage culture. Of course, it will never do that.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 17 11:19:25

a good thing the President of the United States doesn't regularly make up lies that cause resentment of people or institutions
obaminated
Member
Sun Feb 17 11:30:51
tw meltdown in full effect
and rugian, you should feel embarrassed, this was clearly fake from the jump.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 17 12:25:42
"How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
(one of several tweets claiming Obama committed a felony)

he has accused about a dozen or more "Justice" Dept people of crimes as well

substantially more harmful than some actor making up a fake incident that has been exposed (& that is not being hidden by the 'fake' media)

----------

the media made a mistake w/ Covington... but expecting them to wait on alleged crimes until resolved isn't that realistic

also... was the Uranium One 'scandal' proven before Fox News ran with it? (or brought to a point where it even made any logical sense)...

there's your real nonsense

...i'm pretty sure Rugian has noted Seth Rich too
hood
Member
Sun Feb 17 13:50:32
The real news story:

people actually give shits about this.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 17 14:30:12
for the record i hope he's charged

and that Trump is charged... and sued by all the people he falsely smeared
kargen
Member
Sun Feb 17 16:27:59
Cracks me up that you pretend to not know the difference and go on to pretend we don't know that you are pretending to not know the difference.

You do know the difference twixt a tweet and a police report?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 17 16:35:31
and maybe you can recognize the MONUMENTAL ABSURDITY of having a President so reckless w/ his rampant false claims
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 17 16:55:54
i'm sure you'll say you don't approve of him repeatedly falsely accusing people of crimes (as if that's enough outrage)... but what percentage of adults do you think would struggle with this unfit behavior as President?

throw a rock out the window you'll hit someone more fit for office than Trump (assuming you hit someone, which would be assault so you probably shouldn't)
Forwyn
Member
Sun Feb 17 17:03:35
lulz @ tw
obaminated
Member
Sun Feb 17 17:48:21
Tw meltdown continuing in fill effect. It's been a rough month for the guy.
Pillz
Member
Sun Feb 17 17:51:45
Stroke when?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 17 19:06:47
would anyone of you like to go on record saying Trump's behavior is fine?

almost exclusively relying on false or made-up information to make his cases is normal & acceptable? same for regularly falsely smearing people & organizations? same for not once correcting or acknowledging any false statement?
Forwyn
Member
Sun Feb 17 20:04:02
Would you like to make your 40th thread to temporarily contain your TDS?
kargen
Member
Sun Feb 17 22:10:06
Deflect all you want tumbleweed but Smollett broke the law and did his best to start a race riot simply because he hates President Trump.

President Trump's behavior is legal.
obaminated
Member
Mon Feb 18 10:18:05
tw meltdown continues.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 10:58:53
and the collection of people who can't actually defend Trump continues

i believe Kargen tried to claim something in Art of the Deal explains why it was fine for the President to try to convince the public that Russia did not interfere in our election (against unanimous conclusion of our intel community & with no counter evidence whatsoever)

please expound on that as, like Trump, i did not read nor write the Art of the Deal and am highly skeptical there is an acceptable explanation
TJ
Member
Mon Feb 18 11:59:36
Mueller is reaching ground zero. "If", and that is a huge if, Russia swung the election for Trump our intelligence agencies are highly sub par in their assigned duties. How many high level bureaucrats have been fired and for what reasons?

It appears their focus was not where it should have been originally.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 12:35:21
-Comey was fired corruptly by Trump
-McCabe was fired for 'lack of candor' about a media story involving Clinton Foundation (the story was harmful to Hillary NOT Trump)
-Strzok was fired over misuse of phone & appearance of bias (NO actual corrupt action found vs Trump)

Nothing wrongly* anti-Trump demonstrated yet if you sift through all the lies... yet R opinion of the FBI now below 50% thanks to dishonesty personified & his team at Fox 'News'

i specify 'wrongly' as the FBI being gravely concerned w/ Trump's behavior & actions was reasonable & warranted
TJ
Member
Mon Feb 18 12:41:26
We'll see how well Trump will be defended in 2020 at the ballot box.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 12:48:30
well his team of liars is out in force describing the idea of using the 25th Amendment as 'an illegal coup'... the thing that's in the constitution & requires the approval of the unfit liar's own cabinet plus congress...

yeah, illegal coup

and we are gonna continue for 2 more years to have heaps of his lies dumped on a pretty stupid populace... plus he will be saying the 2020 is rigged w/ massive fraud voting just like he did in his primaries/election & midterms...

here's hoping stupid people can sift through the shit... many here are failing...
obaminated
Member
Mon Feb 18 16:06:10
Tw meltdown continues into the new week.
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 16:51:55
"i believe Kargen tried to claim something in Art of the Deal explains why it was fine for the President to try to convince the public that Russia did not interfere in our election"

Your belief is wrong. I said Democrats should not be surprised that President Trump asks for something then walks it down to something else. He asks for 150% of what he wants and counts it a win if he gets 51%. Same strategy is in that book.
Another post in a separate thread I said we should not be surprised that President Trump exaggerates to make his point. Again a strategy from the book.

I did say it was legal for President Trump to tweet whatever he wanted about Russian collusion though personally I didn't think it was a smart move.

If Russia swung the election it is because five or six people posting in broken English on Facebook ran a better campaign than Hillary did.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 17:27:25
i'm pretty sure you used it as a defense when I brought up Trump trying to convince the public Russia was innocent of interference (NOT collusion, simply interference) and he did it for a whole year... (in July 2017 he was casting doubt... on the world stage no less... & continued until July 2018 when he again sided w/ Putin... & then Fox News finally had enough & the lil boy was forced to stop)

if you were not applying it to that, then we still have ZERO DEFENSE of this action that alone should have him removed from office

they attacked us... hacking election systems, stealing voter info, not just DNC & Podesta... not only wont he defend America, he defended the attacker (w/ NO evidence)... for a year or more, including trying to be an anonymous source to news agencies to suggest their innocence... -defend- this... anyone...

--------

in any case, i assume you both now believe McCabe lied about everything, except that stuff about considering the 25th Amendment... which is of course treasonous & illegal... and he was 'caught'... by saying it happened in his book and on TV (if only he had known someone might read the book or see him!)... and that it was the 'insurance policy' from the Strzok texts... getting the cabinet & 2/3rd of congress to agree Trump was unfit for office was their 'insurance policy'... yep, all makes sense
(^ the nonsense Trump tweeted)

it's a good thing we have a President who is so honest with the public & only states the facts
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Feb 18 17:55:52
“If Russia swung the election it is because five or six people posting in broken English on Facebook ran a better campaign than Hillary did.”

Hollary wuld never bee caught at gud music discotheque with premium wodka. Vote Trump gyse, he know gus discotheque n gus wodka - AlexJonesFan69

..
I’ve said as much before, but it doesn’t matter if Trump is a fuckup — comparing his deplorable words/actions to the deplorable words/actions of his opponents doesn’t let either party off the hook, even if one party is “worse”.

In this case, Smollett looks like another race-baiting opportunist who used Hollywood, MSM, and social media sensationalism against itself so he could get victim privilege. All the usual suspects took the bait. Ellen Page is not a surprise since she is a joke who takes the poor foundations of her arguments for granted before building on them (e.g., when she said that her director sarcastically ‘outing’ her in front of cast members was “homophobic”). Also not a surprise that Colbert would platform her monologue. I’m sure that he’d be okay with the truth of Smollett’s case coming out (even if it continues to further prove that Smollett lied for attention) because he still feels the “truthiness” of there being some victimhood somewhere else in the world for he and his audience to feel bad about, even if this wasn’t it.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 18:08:27
for the record, i brought up Trump in this thread due to the ridiculousness of Trump fans celebrating this incident when Trump himself makes false allegations of criminality so often...

like... oh... i have to dig all the way back to yesterday:
"
The Mueller investigation is totally conflicted, illegal and rigged! Should never have been allowed to begin, except for the Collusion and many crimes committed by the Democrats. Witch Hunt!
"

is the investigation illegal? an entirely Republican congress w/ a heavily Republican Justice Dept let an illegal investigation continue for 2 years?

(also, it's rigged of course...)

---

but Smollett can burn in hell :p ... you give Trump fans any incident of falseness & suddenly it proves everything else must be fake too, like Dear Leader says
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 18:12:11
oops, i didn't have to dig all the way back to yesterday... i forgot he claimed today McCabe/Rosenstein/etc committed crimes by considering the 25th Amendment, as i noted already in thread :p

Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Feb 18 18:27:05
So long as we all agree that chem trails turn the frogs gay and that Brain Force Plus can be used to cut through Illuminati charades, I think we’ll be able to separate Trump lies, fear-mongering, and political maneuvers from Trump exaggerations and statements said before he’d bother to look into anything ;D
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 18:43:22
"i'm pretty sure you used it as a defense when I brought up Trump trying to convince the public Russia was innocent of interference"

Nah I didn't and don't need to refer to his book for that. I'm also fairly certain I never claimed President Trump wasn't trying to convince the public. My entire argument has been he did nothing illegal. I even said it might not be real ethical but that didn't make it illegal.

And I still say his tweets are not illegal.

I am also still of the opinion that Russia didn't really care who won the election and took steps to undermine all viable candidates. The reason they didn't target Trump until late in the game is because they didn't think he could win.

As for McCabe I will tell you the same thing I have been telling you with the other investigations. We don't have all the information and will have to wait for any investigation to come to a close.

And we all know there is nobody on these forums that is old enough to have been alive when a president spoke only the full truth.

kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 18:49:09
Back to the topic of Smollett trying to start a race war to advance his career.

Now that the left knows he invented this story some of them are now saying well maybe (maybe?) this attack isn't true but we all know these types of attacks are happening now somewhere else because of Trump.

FOX should let Smollett go and Chicago should put his ass in jail and make him pay for all the wasted resources put into investigating his little fantasy.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 19:10:35
so you require Trump to do something 100% clearly illegal to find him unfit for office?

him joining Russia's defense team in their actions against us is fine? it's ok for the President to side with the enemy against us as long as no crime can be proven? (plus his hugely long list of other problems)

also it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest Russia didn't prefer Trump. Putin admitted it for starters, but also Trump all campaign long: 'we should be friends w/ Russia, Putin's awesome, we are killers too'... whereas Hillary is a personal enemy of Putin

see Republican view of Russia over the campaign... they could not have asked for a better publicist

and even if Trump wasn't 100% pro-Russia, & critical of NATO, & undermining faith in our institutions, he's a totally ignorant immature buffoon... he demonstrated no knowledge on any topic during the campaign & it continues... he believes anyone who praises him... -of course- Russia loved him winning


(as for Smollett, not sure how you know his motive as it hasn't even been officially declared he faked it)
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 19:17:30
"so you require Trump to do something 100% clearly illegal to find him unfit for office?"

Nope. I've never offered my opinion on whether or not he is fit to serve. I do point out when you accuse him of a crime that in fact it was not a crime.

I will offer my opinion now though. There is a lot of what he does I do not agree with but I feel President Trump is fit to serve.

I also am fully convinced most of what you think is true about President Trump is just delusional wishful thinking on your part.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 19:19:16
you claimed you wished to wait for the facts on McCabe... why is this not expected of the President... on anything?

and does any fiber of your being believe Trump will in fact state facts when said facts are known?

he will not
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 19:21:55
"(as for Smollett, not sure how you know his motive as it hasn't even been officially declared he faked it)"

I'll give you this one. We need to wait for the investigation to end. If it turns out as most now suspect that he did fake the attack (two witnesses say he did) then what I said applies.

The two who are admitting they attacked him are saying he wanted them to attack him because a threatening letter the studio received didn't get enough attention. So at best according to the two attackers he is a narcissistic ass. My own opinion is he hates President Trump so much and wants so bad for President Trump and all of Trump's supporters to be racist that he concocted this whole story to that end.
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 20:51:06
"you claimed you wished to wait for the facts on McCabe... why is this not expected of the President... on anything?"

Again he can tweet whatever the hell he wants. He is as free as anyone else to offer up his opinions. Doesn't mean people have to give his opinions any more weight than they would anyone else. It is just a tweet.

And as I said earlier none of us have had a president in our life time that only stated facts. They all spin everything in the light that suits them best. It is up to we the people to wade through all the shit. We used to be able to count on the press to help us wade through. Now we are on our own as the press only piles the shit on deeper.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 21:29:00
these aren't opinions... when the President declares something illegal, it's not an opinion... he's in charge of the Justice Dept... and I guarantee there are people placing more trust in the comments of the President than a random citizen

also he lies exponentially more than any past President, and happily declares anything he thinks up as fact... this is not a feature of past Presidents

But for you, him living in a fact-free world and relaying those non-facts to the public regularly doesn't make him unfit, and him being on Russia's side when they work against us is also fit behavior... ok fine (not really)

how about the Syria withdrawal, he consulted none of our military leaders before announcing (as they have testified)... is that ok? Even if determined to withdraw (since Erdogan told him his mission was accomplished), he shouldn't at least hear their concerns and give them a heads up?

how about Iran... he disagrees with the intel community (with no explanation why).. where do you believe he is getting his information?

he also attacked Jeff Sessions again, please explain a fit and believable reason he is upset with Sessions
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 21:40:41
" I guarantee there are people placing more trust in the comments of the President than a random citizen"

they shouldn't.

"when the President declares something illegal, it's not an opinion"

Sure it is. If he acts on that opinion then you might have a problem. Without the act it is just some words.

"and him being on Russia's side.."

that is an example of something you think is true because you want it to be true. He said some nice things about Russia. Oh well.

"how about the Syria withdrawal, he consulted none of our military leaders before announcing (as they have testified)... is that ok?"

Have we withdrawn from Syria? Is Syria back on the front page? You figured it out yet?

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 22:01:38
criminality is an opinion? interesting

he's on Russia's side as for an entire year he tried to convince the public Russia was innocent of interference (attacking us) and that our intel community was wrong... while using no actual evidence... this is factual

no we haven't withdrawn from Syria... a FIT President would have consulted and learned the timeline possible BEFORE announcing
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 18 22:05:12
What we think is criminal is opinion obviously as shown by the disagreement here.

"a FIT President would have consulted and learned the timeline possible BEFORE announcing"

so the answer is no, you haven't figured it out yet. I even gave you two very good clues.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 22:12:55
Please explain as I'm never going to see how this was a fit announcement for Trump to make with no consultation.

If the AG starts declaring random people to be criminals is that opinion too as long as he doesn't actually act on it? Where is your line on falsely smearing people when you are actually in a position where you should know and have power to act.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 22:27:58
-Trump learns about Syria from Erdogan, announces withdrawal without consulting anyone
-Kurds: "WTF! We're joining with Assad"
-Trump learns those terrorists Erdogan promised to kill were the Kurds, and says 'hey, don't kill those guys'
-Erdogan "WTF! That wasn't part of the deal"
-Trump: "I am altering the deal... pray I don't alter it any further... cause I probably will as relying on my word is the dumbest thing anyone could ever do"
-Military tells Trump they can't withdraw as fast as he wants
-Trump pretends whatever they come up with was what he had in mind all along
-Now Pence is begging annoyed NATO (also not consulted) to fill the void we leave


Optimal results... any fit adult President would have made this choices....
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Feb 18 23:28:23
...I wrote that hurriedly... there's also how Mattis quit as he couldn't stand Trumps incompetence any longer... and how Trump proudly declared his ignorance of our guy in charge of coordinating the fight against ISIS, who also quit in protest... and how ever-honest Trump claimed Russia, Iran and Assad all hate us leaving, defying all logic


Almost any adult would've realized consulting people first would've been the appropriate and wise and expected action... as everyone should acknowledge regardless of whether you approve of the withdrawal.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Feb 19 01:26:44
On the thread topic, someone collected a bunch of these hoax hate crimes on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1097020092791934976
..the list runs much longer than one might hope..

And a comment points out that fakehatecrimes.org/ also collects them.
kargen
Member
Tue Feb 19 01:32:48
"If the AG starts declaring random people to be criminals is that opinion too as long as he doesn't actually act on it?"

Is he doing it in his capacity as AG or simply offering up a thought on twitter?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 07:13:53
so you're fine w/ the AG saying you're a criminal on twitter? Trump announces policy on Twitter, it's not a meaningless platform

you have amazingly low standards for the President

-----

Trump: 'Everyone should sacrifice their firstborn to honor my glory!'

reporters: 'um...'

Sarah Sanders: 'Trump is just saying he hopes everyone appreciates the amazing job he's doing for America'

Fox News: 'we think it's very patriotic'

me: 'Trump is unfit'

kargen: 'it's just Trump's opinion'
jergul
large member
Tue Feb 19 07:23:02
By what metric is the list much longer than one would hope (beyond us hoping the list would be 0 incidents long)?

Per capita? How many hoax hate crimes are reported per American minority per year?

Or perhaps as a % of total reported hate crimes?

For example, if we arbitrarily say there were 7106 reported hate crimes in 2017, what number of hoax claims should we expect?

http://www...ata-hate-crimes-rise-us-report

Notwithstanding it being deplorable, but still, a little perspective is always good.
jergul
large member
Tue Feb 19 07:29:25
http://fakehatecrimes.org/graphs

54 for the current top year 2016 does not seem to represent a sizable fraction of 7106 (2017).

hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 07:36:30
We could say the same about the fraction of people who commit any given crime. In fact, this is a common argument rugian uses when discussing gun violence.
jergul
large member
Tue Feb 19 07:36:37
Site disclaimer:

"Because the site depends on the media, this data cannot be said to show the actual velocity of hate crime hoaxes, and definitely not the ratio of fake to real hate crimes."

I would suggest that hoax hate crimes not reported in the media do not matter as they simply would not be widely known.

There is a bias factor of course. Hoaxes may tend to be more spectacular than actual hate crimes, so would be more likely to gain media traction.

So it would not be correct to evaluate anything you read in the media as extremely unlikely to be a hoax.

It would likely just be in the very unlikely range.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 07:45:38
GoFundMe might contribute to more hoaxes as everyone always sets one up
jergul
large member
Tue Feb 19 07:47:37
Hood
Indeed. But still, 54 incidents is pretty insignificant (as is arguably 7106 reported hate crimes).
hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 08:25:40
I don't disagree. My first post on the thread was:
"The real news story:

people actually give shits about this."

It seems like a pretty minor event overall. It was only the police report that lent any weight to the story, and not much.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Feb 19 12:18:30
[Hood]: “It seems like a pretty minor event overall. It was only the police report that lent any weight to the story, and not much.”

That’s part of the problem that that Twitter thread and .org point out: minor events, but the media runs at full sensationalist mode for entire news cycles with them.. and then drops them quickly and quietly when they turn out to be fake. So one might hope that the media would learn its lesson and have only done it once or twice in as many years, but it’s a routine mistake, almost like weekly TV programming (“Race-Bait Mondays” or something).

The Twitter aggregator also highlights the “boy who cried wolf” issue by pointing out that the media will even run with multiple hoaxes from the same place, this being an extension of the general idea that journalists should probably approach the “boy” with some skepticism and that reactive protests (outrage mobs) form too quickly when they could avoid being made into useful idiots by taking a moment for the facts to arrive. Instead, the “wolf” is taken as a given truth, TV spots get filled by predictable platformers (here Ellen Page), and when the contrary truth inevitably arrives it is discarded on the principle that “Sure, there wasn’t a wolf *this* time, but by truthiness we feel that there *could* be a wolf spirit out there in the woods that can never been seen — our god of outrage.”
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Feb 19 12:34:18
soylent green is NOT people!!!!
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Feb 19 13:34:13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Oh6kUHmzM
kargen
Member
Tue Feb 19 13:35:20
"you have amazingly low standards for the President"

No I put no importance on a tweet don't give a shit who puts it out.

If/when action is taken based on the tweet then I will decide how to respond based on the action.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 14:04:41
regarding his tweets:
"The President is the President of the United States, so they're considered official statements by the President of the United States"
~ Sean Spicer


or is your ridiculous opinion not twitter-specific and applicable to any statements in any form by him?
jergul
large member
Tue Feb 19 14:09:15
Its hard to take issue with that position, but it has been true for a while.

Maybe the communists did not attack our vessels in Tonkin, but they could have.

Maybe Saddam did not throw babies out of incubators in Kuwait, but he could have.

Maybe Putin did not meddle in our election as much as Cambridge Analytics, but he wanted to.

Maybe White helmets did stages that gas attack, but the point still stands.
kargen
Member
Tue Feb 19 15:13:44
Personally I think Sean Spicer is wrong. If push came to shove the courts would find there is nothing official about a tweet.

The president isn't going to tweet an executive order and he isn't going to set policy with a tweet.

What he will do is stir up the press so they keep him and what he thinks important on the front page.

Again a few words sent out to the world with no follow-up actions are just that...a few words.
hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 15:16:51
"If push came to shove the courts would find there is nothing official about a tweet."

This is why you're retarded. They've already found tweets to be official.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Feb 19 16:00:06
No, they've found tweets to be the basis for determining his intent.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 16:13:05
'my diet coke is urging me to launch a nuclear strike on North Korea, but first I want to consult my hamburger.......'

(excessive dots mean another tweet coming in ~20 mins)
---------

'I just found out Cryin' Chuck Schumer raped Melanie... Bad (or sick) guy!'

---------

'I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving.'

---------

'I have decided to have the U.S. default on all outstanding debt'

----------

^acceptable tweets by Trump (in kargen's view)


his tweets -have- affected the stock market, most notably his inappropriate 'gee, i'm looking forward to see the job numbers report being released at 8:30AM'... anyone who was not an idiot knew they would be better than expected numbers
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 16:19:55
he also fucked w/ the market w/ some China tweets more recently but i don't really want to search for it (& won't make a difference to anyone anyway)
hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 16:38:07
@ forwyn

http://en....t_Amendment_Institute_v._Trump

Feel free to read whichever source you please. Tweets are official. Kargen is wrong. You are either wrong or not up to date.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Feb 19 16:58:28
I was referring to the targeted immigration ban rulings. But ah, that laughable case again. The idea that one loses full access to their account the moment they take office.

lulz
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 17:01:09
i find it odd that it even matters if official... he's the President... he's spewing words... the words of a President matter

when he insults our allies or other foreign leaders it's not like they have no effect

why is the bar so low for this idiot child?
hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 17:28:21
"The idea that one loses full access to their account the moment they take office."

No, one only loses the ability to censor if they use their account for anything work related.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 17:35:32
he had the option to use the appropriate POTUS account but his personal account had more followers, so obviously that's what was important to the guy who brags & lies about every crowd size
Forwyn
Member
Tue Feb 19 17:48:46
"why is the bar so low for this idiot child?"

People had the choice between a corrupt retard and a corrupt warmonger. The system doesn't provide many options for holding a corrupt retard accountable if he still has the backing his cabinet and a good chunk of Congress.

"censor"

They're still allowed to post to Twitter. They can also see his Tweets through various avenues.
kargen
Member
Tue Feb 19 17:52:25
"acceptable tweets by Trump (in kargen's view)"

actual tweets in Tumbleweeds little world.

Hood your link doesn't say what you think it says. Where in your link does it say the tweets are official? The ruling says the account is a presidential account and not a personal account but did not rule on the content of that account. Until a tweet is acted upon it is just opinion most of the time.

kargen
Member
Tue Feb 19 18:00:38
Back to Smollett now it looks like he had the two men write the hate mail and when that didn't generate enough press for him he had them actually attack him.
hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 18:06:48
"They're still allowed to post to Twitter. They can also see his Tweets through various avenues."

And yet you're still not allowed to bar people from a public venue without cause (wherein disagreement with an opinion is not cause).


"Hood your link doesn't say what you think it says. Where in your link does it say the tweets are official?"

You're retarded. I'd like to leave it at that, because you deserve nothing further, but your incessantly dripping vagina will continue to make a mess, so I will spell it out in kiddie words:

The court deemed Twitter a public venue for the purposes of censorship. That is, you cannot bar someone from your feed without just reasoning (vulgarities, stalking, etc. that would get you thrown out of a town hall meeting). This makes Twitter an official venue for anyone who uses it in an official (read: in relation to being a public servant) capacity. Trump posts tweets that relate to him being president. It is legally official. And you're retarded.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Feb 19 18:26:39
"that would get you thrown out of a town hall meeting"

Screaming incessantly at the speaker after every line that they're a crook, fake speaker, etc etc, would typically get you thrown out of a town hall meeting.

They're not barred from the venue.
hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 19:38:40
Yes, it was already clear that you have no clue what the analogy is, forwyn. No need to reinforce it. We know you're stupid.
kargen
Member
Tue Feb 19 19:40:01
yes I understand all that. Do you? Obviously not because what you and tumbleweed are arguing is that the tweets are official. You are saying if President Trump tweets something to hell with the constitution that tweet is now the law of the land.
What the court ruled on was the status of the account not the validity or lack there of for the actual tweets. The ruling doesn't mention tweets at all let alone define them.

Next you are going to try and tell me if President Trump tweets the same thing three times in a twenty minute span it officially becomes an amendment to the constitution.

The decision reached is that the account is a public forum. So his twitter account is the same thing as a man climbing up on a soapbox on a sidewalk somewhere to shout his thoughts to the passing masses. That is a long long way from saying his tweets are official. Almost the exact opposite actually.
jergul
large member
Tue Feb 19 21:01:28
You are framing the question wrong.

Are the tweets recorded communications from the President of the United States?

The term "official" is meaningless outside of duties that have to be preformed as a matter of law or ceremony.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Feb 19 21:22:13
this is all nuts

If the President of the United States claims Joe Kargen is a criminal, the public should be able to assume there is good reason to believe Joe is a criminal, and that the President could name the crime and back it up with evidence.

This was not a problem until this President... where there is now actually no reason to believe that Joe is a criminal (except amongst his stupid fans)... and he rarely specifies the crime and never has any evidence.

kargen
Member
Tue Feb 19 22:01:45
"If the President of the United States claims Joe Kargen is a criminal, the public should be able to assume there is good reason to believe Joe is a criminal"

Why?

You are applying much more importance to the tweets than you should be. Just treat them like mindless meaningless ramblings and you will be much happier.
hood
Member
Tue Feb 19 23:14:01
"You are saying if President Trump tweets something to hell with the constitution that tweet is now the law of the land."

I don't know how many times I need to repeat this. You are fucking retarded.
jergul
large member
Wed Feb 20 00:37:17
"Why"?

Because the head of state said so.

Remember all the panties in a bunch because some president or another said Israel should be wiped off the map?

Was that wrong?
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