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Utopia Talk / Politics / Where's the "Thank you" Cindy?
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Wed Mar 20 16:22:49
http://www...0/trump-mccain-funeral-1230483

Trump says he never got a thank you for McCain's funeral

By KATIE GALIOTO 03/20/2019 04:18 PM EDT

President Donald Trump on Wednesday went after the late Sen. John McCain once again, saying that he “gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted,” but “didn’t get a thank you.”

Speaking in front of a crowd at a tank plant in Lima, Ohio, the president continued the attacks on McCain that he began over the weekend. Trump said he was responsible for authorizing the state funeral services for McCain, who died of cancer in August, but got no gratitude.


“I gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted – which, as president, I had to approve,” Trump said. “I don't care about this, but I didn't get a thank you. That is OK. We sent him on the way, but I wasn’t a fan of John McCain.”

“I have to be honest, I’ve never liked him much,” Trump also said of the former senator in extended vent session that received a cool reception in the room. “Hasn't been for me.”

Trump and McCain clashed repeatedly after the former launched his presidential campaign, but their feud peaked in 2017 when the senator sunk GOP efforts to repeal Obamacare with a dramatic thumbs-down vote.

Trump was not invited to McCain's funeral last year, and the American flag atop the White House was initially raised to full-staff in the wake of the senator's death — and was returned to half-staff in McCain's honor only after the move garnered criticism from both sides of the aisle.

Since Saturday, the president has publicly railed against McCain for tanking the Obamacare repeal and for passing along to the FBI an explosive and largely unverified dossier alleging links between Trump and Russia. Trump also mocked McCain on Twitter for being "last in his class" at the U.S. Naval Academy. The former Navy pilot graduated from the military academy in 1958, finishing near, but not at, the bottom of his class.
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For the pro-military audience gathered in Ohio, Trump added a point to his list of grievances against McCain: He blamed the senator for helping persuade President George W. Bush to invade Iraq.

“Thousands and thousands of our people have been killed, millions of people overall,” Trump said. “And frankly, we're straightening it out now, but it’s been a disaster for the country.”

He also reiterated his qualms with McCain over the dossier and the vote to repeal Obamacare, tailoring his lines to the crowd.

“He went thumbs down, badly hurting the Republican Party, badly hurting our nation and hurting many sick people who desperately wanted good, affordable health care,” Trump said, adding: “McCain didn't get the job done for our great vets in the VA.”

Trump’s inflammatory remarks about the late senator have drawn scathing criticism from lawmakers and members of McCain’s family. The president concluded his tirade in Ohio by blaming the media for drawing out the issue.

“Not my kind of guy, but some people like him,” Trump concluded.
kargen
Member
Wed Mar 20 16:26:07
She should respond by thanking him for not showing up.
hood
Member
Wed Mar 20 16:30:39
What a vapid cunt, this trump fellow is.
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 20 17:19:50
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 20 18:38:38
mental illness

...and, no, you don't need a professional to see him for an hour a week to diagnose
kargen
Member
Wed Mar 20 21:57:20
someone should at least make him look at a few ink blots before jumping to that conclusion. Give him 15 minutes at least.
hood
Member
Wed Mar 20 22:04:46
The fuck do inkblots have to do with anything?
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 20 22:19:04
What do inkblots have to do with a psychological evaluation? Yeah it's a mystery that one.
kargen
Member
Wed Mar 20 22:30:30
makes more sense than just reading a tweet or two and proclaiming an illness.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 20 23:27:35
he has thousands of tweets and many many hours of videotape and interviews
hood
Member
Wed Mar 20 23:37:58
"What do inkblots have to do with a psychological evaluation?"

While it is a knock on me that inkblot tests are majority used on children and the subject in question fits that description, the inkblot test is not only ill equipped to assist in diagnoses but also not even necessarily equipped to assist in any sort of psychology.

Don't defend kargen's offhanded retardation. It just brings you to his level.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 20 23:44:36
Narcissistic personality disorder
(not merely being a narcissist)

Symptoms

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance

Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration

Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it

Exaggerate achievements and talents

Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate

Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people

Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior

Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations

Take advantage of others to get what they want

Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others

Be envious of others and believe others envy them

Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious

Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office


At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment

Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted

React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior

Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior

Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change

Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection

Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation

-----------------

you don't need all the symptoms to be diagnosed with that disorder... although Trump sure does, in maximum amount

and not his only illness
kargen
Member
Thu Mar 21 02:30:45
The number doesn't matter. Psychoanalysts have been telling us for at least a couple of decades that any real analysis takes multiple sessions (face to face) over a long period of time.

and Hood you know perfectly well what I meant. Quit playing the idiot.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 21 05:21:15
Kargen
The tweets are actually decent data and represent more information than might be garnered from several sessions face-to-face.

Psychiatrists have the required certification btw. Not Psycoanalysts.
hood
Member
Thu Mar 21 07:28:13
"Hood you know perfectly well what I meant."

Yes, I know you were casually throwing pasta against the wall hoping that some of it would stick. That doesn't make it any less retarded.


"The tweets are actually decent data"

It goes beyond that. Any mental illness diagnosis would also require real world observations (whether related by story or actually observed by the diagnostician). His trove of public engagements (tweets, press conferences, etc.) would 100% be relevant. They would actually comprise the foundation of a diagnosis or lack their of. Casually dismissing them is betraying a severe ignorance to the basics of psychological diagnostics. (And no, this paragraph isn't in contention with your post, it is in support of it. It would be in contention with kargen)
Forwyn
Member
Thu Mar 21 11:20:52
What's the appropriate funeral for a traitorous war criminal?
kargen
Member
Thu Mar 21 15:57:56
Never said tweets wouldn't be relevant. My point is they alone are not enough. Face time is required.

In short Tumbleweed is claiming multiple mental problems and claiming President Trump is mentally unfit to be president. Claims that are not backed up with any real diagnosis just wishful thinking on his part.

Again in his mind it is true because he wants it to be true. Standard thought process for tumble when it comes to President Trump and he suffered from that even before the election.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Mar 21 16:17:37
"Face time is required"

completely false & ridiculous
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Mar 21 22:47:52
[Kargen]: “Face time is required"
[tw]: “completely false & ridiculous”

Kargen is correct in this case. Forensic psychiatrists examine an entire spectrum of information — social media included — but would still require a face-to-face interview before giving a diagnosis of mental health (part of a “capacity exam”). The *dangerousness* of a person’s behavior can be gathered from Tweets alone, but that would not be a substitute for a diagnosis (note that “dangerousness” tends to be an inescapable dimension of office-holders, since dangers to public health can be interpreted from public policies of all kinds). This following was said by psychiatrist Bandy Lee, who has called for emergency evaluations of Trump to determine his mental fitness for the office:

“[In looking at Tweets and behavior] we are assessing dangerousness, not making a diagnosis. The two are quite separate: Assessing dangerousness is making a judgment about the situation, not the person. The same person may not be dangerous in a different situation, for example. And it is his threat to public health, not his personal affairs, that is our concern.

“A diagnosis, on the other hand, is a personal affair that does not change with situation, and you require all relevant information — including, I believe, a personal interview.”
(Sorry for the Vox link, but they got the interview: http://www...th-psychiatrist-25th-amendment )

Lee has tried to seem nonpartisan, but she has revealed some DNC-leanings and may just be trying to make a name for herself, but she’s one of the leading figures in a push to evaluate Trump, and she wants a face-to-face for a diagnosis.
McKobb
Member
Thu Mar 21 23:00:17
Cindy's are very, very horrible people! Not good people at all. Not at all.
hood
Member
Thu Mar 21 23:19:03
@ CC

While I don't disagree with what you presented, we have seen an extraordinary amount of information with Trump in a great multitude of situations. While we may not be able to make a true clinical diagnosis, it's a fairly safe conclusion to say that something is amiss. An in person interview would be more a narrowing of diagnosis rather than attempting to determine whether he is mentally fit or not. And a diagnosis doesn't even necessarily mean mental unfitness, as the specific diagnosis would be important. If Trump turns out to be a garden variety sociopath or narcissist, that isn't anything that would make him unfit for office.
kargen
Member
Thu Mar 21 23:25:50
"completely false & ridiculous"

Not according to those that are top in the field.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 01:41:56
i agree w/ hood... you may need interaction to give a specific & accurate diagnosis of all his illnesses (or maybe the professionals just want to defend their jobs :p) but i don't see how you could need face to face to determine there IS mental illness... if next press event he's sitting naked on the Resolute desk eating his feces, i think that'd be clear w/o need of professionals

you see a therapist & they ask 'what's bothering you?', 'how do you feel about that?'... he tweets the answers daily

and my definite diagnosis of NPD (it is very clear :p)... isn't what makes him unfit... his demonstrated behavior makes him unfit

(he didn't know anything about Iran Deal when leaving it, he doesn't know what Obamacare is, he didn't know what any Republican health plans were, he doesn't read briefings, he struggles to behave like an adult, he trusts the word of Putin over our intel community, he trusts the word of MBS over our intel community, he trusts the word of Kim Jong Un over our intel community, he trusts the word of Netanyahu over our intel community, he trusts the word of Hannity over our intel community, and rather than wanting to defend the US from Russia cyber attacks, he wanted to team up with them, plus he has continually tried to convince Americans they never did attack us, he lies way more often than he tells the truth, he is entirely susceptible to flattery, & he's a life-long fraud in every aspect of life... and he doesn't know how to close an umbrella)
McKobb
Member
Fri Mar 22 01:55:04
Trump is the very worst president ever!
patom
Member
Fri Mar 22 06:03:58
Face time is required for those with hidden psychosis symptoms. Also to pay for the huge tuition debt that anyone who is a psychiatrist must pay.

Is it a psychosis to be blind to the obvious psychotic actions of another?
patom
Member
Fri Mar 22 06:06:01
BTW, does Trump now wish personal thank you notes for all funerals being conducted at Arlington?
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Mar 22 08:26:23
[hood]: “An in person interview would be more a narrowing of diagnosis rather than attempting to determine whether he is mentally fit or not.“

Not technically, no. That’s the opposite of psychiatric method. A psychiatrist may have suspicions about an eventual diagnosis (even strong suspicions following a large volume of public evidence), but it is outright irresponsible for a psychiatrist to make *any* diagnosis without a face-to-face evaluation. This is part of the Goldwater Rule (discussed in the article); a psychiatrist may discuss a public figure’s dangerousness to public health but not make a diagnosis based on that figure’s public presentation alone — that would be unethical, and a psychiatrist can face discipline for failing to observe the rule.

..
[patom]: “Face time is required for those with hidden psychosis symptoms.”

Not exclusively. Even someone with a track record of crazy Tweets would still need to be given an in person evaluation. Part of it is separating a person’s public presentation from their private thinking and gauging their thought processes from controlled questions and scenarios. If Trump leaves a meeting with North Korean leadership and then 10 hours later Tweets about how the West should disband its military and give NK all of its money, people might say he’s crazy (a diagnosis), but the 10-hour gap in this scenario leaves a lot unknown. In person, a psychiatrist would be able to test the scenario against present thought processes (e.g., what information potentially hidden from the public had actually precipitated a decision). Without the face-to-face, a public figure can always claim hidden motivations such as security or theatrics.
hood
Member
Fri Mar 22 08:39:07
I think we're saying the same thing, except I'm not bound by a doctorate's degree to not publicly announce my opinions on a public figure's mental state, so I can be more specific than "he's dangerous" and instead can say "he displays many criteria of a sociopath." Neither me nor a psychiatrist are actually providing a professional diagnosis whether I say "he's probably mentally ill" or they say "he's dangerous." We both agree an in person session would be required to nail down something specific. We both agree that there's smoke that signals probable existence of a fire.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 11:20:56
the Goldwater Rule is from before Twitter... plus all the other video/interview/reporting content we have for Trump for years (also that's for official diagnosis by a professional and to protect their ethical standards, doesn't mean we cant be 99.9999% sure of Trump's obvious illness)

and we do know how he behaves in private, he would talk to world leaders about his amazing election & the witch hunt, etc. & we get leaks from friends/past associates... it's the same shit he tweets about
(although now the WH won't tell us what leaders he talks to or what about as gotten too embarrassing probably)

& even if you think all reporting is fake news:

back to his clear unfitness regardless of diagnosing his obvious mental illness:

he undermines faith in our elections, claiming he was cheated in his primary, plus fraud in 2016 & 2018 elections (citing no evidence) & certainty of fraud claims in 2020 even before any voting... and he undermines faith in the Justice Dept just to protect himself, again, no real evidence... he behaves like a dictator, he falsely accuses people of crimes repeatedly, he called someone cooperating w/ the DOJ a rat, he wanted the DOJ to back off R candidates who were running, he wants the DOJ to target 'the other side', he fired the AG solely because the AG was recused from the investigation into himself... & back to his lying: any claim he makes is probably false... again... -any- claim he makes is probably false... yet his job is to be the leader of the country, that behavior alone disqualifies him


so if you don't want to acknowledge any mental illness, which will never get that in-person diagnosis as he will never go to a professional (& if he did, he'd lie about it), then he's still grossly unfit 100 times over
kargen
Member
Fri Mar 22 11:24:30
tumbleweed once again declaring something is true based only upon his wish that it were true.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 11:28:02
could you please defend every individual problem i listed?
(those require no mental illness diagnosis, it's just his behavior)


also on the illness part, can you think of anyone in your life who would struggle so much to behave like a mature adult professional if they had been made president? (as now we know it requires no knowledge or qualifications or character)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 11:31:14
...and Trump now yet again declaring Democrats are anti-Jewish

such a great leader
murder
Member
Fri Mar 22 12:20:17

The thing about Trump is that no matter how sure you are that he can't possibly be more retarded, you're always proven wrong. No matter how retarded he seems, he's just warming up.

Forwyn
Member
Fri Mar 22 12:55:20
For video mental illness diagnoses, look no further than deranged McCain rants defending Kissinger, or calling Paul a Russian shill for opposing needless NATO expansion
hood
Member
Fri Mar 22 13:00:46
The butthurt whataboutism has been strong in you lately. Everything ok?
murder
Member
Fri Mar 22 13:02:02

Well we can't have crazy people in office. The Senate should expel McCain immediately!

Forwyn
Member
Fri Mar 22 13:08:55
Is this not a thread involving McCain?

Feel free to continue laughing at the mentally ill reality TV star.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Mar 22 13:17:24
BTW, for it to be a whataboutism I would need to be defending Trump. Learn words before you use them.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 13:41:53
add Pompeo to the mental illness list:


“Could it be that President Trump right now has been sort of raised for such a time as this, just like Queen Esther, to help save the Jewish people from the Iranian menace?” Mitchell asked Pompeo.

“As a Christian, I certainly believe that’s possible,” he replied. “It was remarkable – so we were down in the tunnels where we could see 3,000 years ago, and 2,000 years ago – if I have the history just right – to see the remarkable history of the faith in this place and the work that our administration’s done to make sure that this democracy in the Middle East, that this Jewish state remains. I am confident that the Lord is at work here.”

http://www...like-he-raised-up-queen-esther


...also, calling Trump mentally ill is basically being generous to him... it's his actions that prove he's unfit, being ill would be an excuse for him
kargen
Member
Fri Mar 22 15:01:13
"could you please defend every individual problem i listed?"

I've done that some in other threads. You remain delusional.

That aside in this country the onus is on you to prove guilt or that his actions make him unfit for office. So far all you have produced is your opinion.

Kind of like the guest on CNN that declared President Trump a criminal then used his own book as proof.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 15:45:54
what would constitute proof of unfitness in your mind?

you seem to believe behavior, actions & comments aren't relevant


also, who on CNN are you talking about? ... your comment as described probably didn't happen
kargen
Member
Fri Mar 22 15:53:18
"you seem to believe behavior, actions & comments aren't relevant"

Do you even read my posts?

I've said many times actions are what matters. Many many times.

Some guest on CNN. It was on behind me while I was working. The guest used his own book twice as proof of what he said and the host didn't question him on it either time. And yeah it did happen. Why the fuck would I make something like that up?

Happened or not though it is almost exactly the kind of thing you do. You want something to be true so you just say it is true then defend it based on you wanting it to be true.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 15:56:41
and have you provided any explanation yet of how Trump's continuous attempts to convince the public that Russia was innocent of election interference is acceptable? (note i'm saying 'interference', not 'collusion')


he retweeted this just 2 weeks ago, so he's STILL at it...
"BREAKING: Even Mueller's case against Russia itself, for interfering in the 2016 election, is breaking down"
[no info of how it was breaking down... whatever it referred to was probably nonsense]


that behavior alone is proof of unfitness... & basically treason
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Mar 22 16:04:25
i'll bet the CNN guy claimed Trump did something then said '...as i explain in my book', which many people do, and means they further explain the evidence in the book, not suggesting their book is proof


and siding w/ Russia is an action, undermining faith in our elections is an action, undermining faith in the DOJ is an action, leaving the Iran Deal w/ no understanding of it was an action, dismissing the climate report because he 'doesn't see it' was an action, lying to the public about everything is an action, firing the AG solely because he wasn't being protected was an action
hood
Member
Fri Mar 22 17:57:33
"The guest used his own book twice as proof of what he said and the host didn't question him on it either time."

Guests are often on to plug themselves. It's not at all uncommon. People are also loathe to re-cite their sources over and over and over. If the guest did all the work previously or was speaking of personal experience, citing their own book is appropriate. You're going to need to provide more detail to make this actually "because I said so" bullshit. Context matters.
Rugian
Member
Fri Mar 22 17:59:43
Hood,

You're wrong.

Source: me.
hood
Member
Fri Mar 22 18:07:41
Rugian,

Your source was too intoxicated to provide an accurate assessment.

Source: your credit card statements
Rugian
Member
Fri Mar 22 18:13:25
Um, I only pay for alcohol with my EBT card, tyvm.
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Mar 22 18:37:58
[tw]: "the Goldwater Rule is from before Twitter..."

Though it still reflects the same ethical principle: Twitter would be public text as opposed to private thoughts revealed to an interviewing psychiatrist.

..
[hood]: "We both agree an in person session would be required to nail down something specific."
[tw]: "(also that's for official diagnosis by a professional and to protect their ethical standards, doesn't mean we cant be 99.9999% sure of Trump's obvious illness)"

Oh okay. And yeah, that's about the size of it. From his Twitter and history, we in pop psychology can tell that he's (most likely) crazy, but it's very unlikely that enough push will happen to get Trump evaluated in person (i.e., no *actual* diagnosis will occur to determine a verifiable, legally-valid and office-ending mental condition). Nancy Pelosi herself said that she's not interested (That March 11th, 2019 Washington Post interview http://www...rth-it/?utm_term=.95a77f79b50a ), and psychiatrists have run into the problem wherein policy-makers can exhibit "dangerous" behavior simply by virtue of their positions.

That being the case, his crazy comments just mean rating snacks to the news cycles and thoughts for voters rather than anything legally actionable. His public mental health issues probably won't come up until 2024 when Amendment XXII is abolished to give him a lifetime position as Augustus God Emperor. 2024 voters will have to decide if they think that he can give the Empire a desirable 30 years of expansion and conquest or just 12 to 16 years that eventually end in Caligula terrors. ;)
hood
Member
Fri Mar 22 18:42:34
"no *actual* diagnosis will occur to determine a verifiable, legally-valid and office-ending mental condition"

Unless he's already taken several steps down the path to dementia, I wouldn't expect any psych eval to identify a disqualifying mental health issue.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Mar 23 11:37:14
we know he can identify a drawing a giraffe, so i guess he's fit for office...
(& he bragged about passing ^that test)

-----

more unfitness (& policy by tweet):


Hours after President Donald Trump fired off a confusing tweet about North Korea sanctions, the administration had a new explanation for his statement.

Trump announced Friday afternoon that he was ordering a stop to "additional large scale" Treasury sanctions on Pyongyang that he said had been unveiled earlier in the day.

"It was announced today by the U.S. Treasury that additional large scale Sanctions would be added to those already existing Sanctions on North Korea," Trump wrote. "I have today ordered the withdrawal of those additional Sanctions!"

But the Treasury Department had taken no such action on Friday, a fact that led North Korea experts to presume Trump was referring to sanctions applied to two Chinese shipping companies on Thursday because they allegedly did business with North Korea.

In a statement released after Trump's tweet, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders declined to disabuse anyone of that notion — simply attributing his decision to his affinity for North Korean leader Kim Jong Un — and the National Security Council press office refused when asked to clarify whether Trump was referring to the shipping companies.

"President Trump likes Chairman Kim and he doesn't think these sanctions will be necessary," Sanders said.

But late Friday, a U.S. official and a personal familiar with the situation both told NBC News that Trump was talking about a plan to roll out a major new round of sanctions on Pyongyang that he scuttled before it could be publicly announced by his lieutenants. That is, he tweeted that he was killing a sanctions plan the public didn't know about until he announced he wasn't acting on it.

http://www...ated-sanctions-chinese-n986376

...remaining unexplained is why he put the exclamation point in his tweet... 'i've cancelled additional sanctions on NK!'... um, yay?

also this official spokesman statement is disturbing:
"President Trump likes Chairman Kim and he doesn't think these sanctions will be necessary," Sanders said.

oh... Trump likes him, great... i wonder why... (-completely- susceptible to flattery)
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