Utopia Talk / Politics / New Zealand bans shooter manifesto

Rugian Member	Sun Mar 24 09:04:43 ROFL. Complete shithole. Thank God my country has both the 1st and 2nd Amendments. ---- Censor bans 'manifesto' of Christchurch mosque shooter David Shanks says document ‘deliberately constructed to inspire murder and terrorism’, as more than 1,000 New Zealanders register to hand in guns http://www...of-christchurch-mosque-shooter
FREAK NATION Member	Sun Mar 24 09:20:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_New_Zealand T-shirts have been censored in New Zealand, and in 2007 one that advertised an album for Cradle of Filth, a British extreme metal band, was banned by Bill Hastings, the chief censor in New Zealand. According to Hastings, it was one of the most graphic T-shirts he had ever seen. The shirt displayed an image of a mostly nude Roman Catholic nun masturbating, along with the text "Jesus is a Cunt".
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Mar 24 11:13:02 i'll save people time, the t-shirt: http://emb...ress.com/2013/01/jesus-cof.jpg i'm ok w/ children not passing by that shirt... or seeing it from 100 yards as the lettering is huge
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Mar 24 11:15:32 It is a very feminine solution, cover the childrens eyes lest they be corrupted by the horrors if the world.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Mar 24 11:18:09 how about a t-shirt w/ a screengrab of Kraft's handjob on every opposing fan during every Patriots game
jergul large member	Sun Mar 24 15:30:17 ROFL. Alt-right trolrofled by the kiwis.
jergul large member	Sun Mar 24 15:31:53 For the other stuff. Obscenity is not protected by your constitution and you take obscenity way to far (for example partial nudity in public is not a protected expression).
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 24 16:26:00 jergul, I'll acknowledge that we don't value your right to pull out your penis in front of a middle school. Frankly, I'm not shedding any tears over it.
jergul large member	Sun Mar 24 16:32:20 Ruggy Indecent exposure legislation covering genetalia is something I agree with. Obscenity laws are frecking religious based authoritarianism.
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 24 16:36:27 *shrug* Move to Oregon then.
jergul large member	Sun Mar 24 17:15:15 *shrug* I rest my case.
McKobb Member	Sun Mar 24 21:56:33 A real come to jesus slogan.
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Sun Mar 24 22:32:00 WHY THE FUCK would you wanna read some random asshole's fan script.
Forwyn Member	Sun Mar 24 22:39:11 I don't have time to read 74 pages of rambling, but I enjoy seeing shit like him dropping the Navy Seal copypasta. And people should have the freedom to peruse it if they wish. They shouldn't be caged by thought-police jackboots wearing hijabs.
Paramount Member	Mon Mar 25 06:45:45 ”New Zealand bans shooter manifesto” I take it that IS propaganda that glorifies terrorism is also illegal? Hell, in some parts of Europe you can go to jail if you express an opinion on the holocaust that differs from the one in the history books. In France, you are not allowed to wear a t-shirt that says Boycott Israel on it.
murder Member	Mon Mar 25 10:58:21 "And people should have the freedom to peruse it if they wish. They shouldn't be caged by thought-police jackboots wearing hijabs." People aren't caged, this idiot's "manifesto" is. All the backwardness and ignorance in the world is still at your fingertips.
jergul large member	Mon Mar 25 11:25:29 "Peruse" is a particularly poor choice of words as the ban concerns storage and dissimilation of the manifesto, not the perusal of it. You are in compliance for as long as you do not store a copy on your computer or spread the manifesto in any way.
Forwyn Member	Mon Mar 25 13:25:59 "People aren't caged" Don't be retarded. "as long as you do not store a copy on your computer" Don't be retarded. "Shanks told members of the public to delete any copies of the document, along with posts or links to it." You'll likely be forced to torrent the file as a .zip if still looking for it. Cages, for reading words. Nuke New Zealand
jergul large member	Mon Mar 25 14:11:46 Forwyn The only time people have been caged under the legislation is for distributing censored material, and for storing sexualized material (mainly child pornography). They have about 5 convictions a year against private individuals (house arrest is the most common sentence). Viewing a pdf in a browser based viewing mode would not contravene the legislation. Members of the public in New Zealand. What fraction of a percent of the global population is that? Other rules apply in other jurisdictions. Also, nuking a country for practicing sovereign rights seems a bit excessive, don't you think?
Forwyn Member	Mon Mar 25 20:41:48 "distributing censored material" So exactly what we're talking about. "Viewing a pdf in a browser based viewing mode would not contravene the legislation." Good luck finding it when the host contravenes that legislation, and FVEY member NZ forcing ISPs to black hole sites that still host the video or manifesto, and even sends requests to foreigners for takedowns and data retainment. "Sovereign rights" lulz. It's the sovereign right of a nation to shoot protesters, right? Joshua Moon is right about the shithole New Zealand and their faggot laws. "Moon and Rekieta both agree that child pornography is the only type of content that should not be allowed to be shared online - arguing strongly that graphic videos of murder, even when they're terrorist propaganda, are in the public interest to be uncensored and freely available. "Everything should be accessible, all the time," says Moon. "I agree, 100 percent," says Rekieta. "As long as it's not illegal - and I mean not illegal in the US, because I don't trust any other existence right now to have the free speech protection to say that 'illegal' means it should be illegal." http://www...rror-attack-investigation.html
jergul large member	Tue Mar 26 01:23:31 Forwyn Reading, storing, and distributing are not the same thing in the eyes of the law in New Zealand. US jurisdiction is not the same thing as New Zealand's jurisdiction. Lots of laws are horrible. But it is a Sovereign right to pass them. ISP blocking is done according to user agreements and has not been mandated by Government. All that said. It is fine to mock New Zealand law. We mock US laws all the time.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 26 01:40:31 @He goes on to say his hosting of the video stayed up while most other websites removed it - resulting in a huge increase in traffic to Kiwi Farms, resulting in bandwith problems. "My little website, you do want attention for it, but you don't want to be the 'school shooter website'. We've made the news multiple times now, because of our affiliations with - like it's three times at this point." http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms He then mentions two times users of Kiwi Farms had either carried out fatal shootings, or been thwarted in attempting one. Meanwhile, Moon's response to the New Zealand police has been reported on elsewhere, with other alleged actions of his also being brought into the spotlight. "Before he founded Kiwi Farms, Moon was sacked as an administrator for 8chan for allegedly promoting paedophilia. He is notorious for his online stalking and harassment campaigns, which have featured threats to 'rape, murder and dismember' his mainly female victims," reports news.com.au. "In 2016, Moon was linked to a series of online threats to harm children in Florida, where he shares a home with his mother, forcing dozens of schools into lockdown." Kiwi Farms users are posting links to the coverage and joking about it, particularly instances of media referring to them as 'incels', or involuntary celibates - an online subculture of men who claim they are unable to find sexual or romantic partners. More allegations about Moon's online behaviour and its connection to real-world violence are posted on several websites online. Newshub" The end of the article Forwyn found. Wow.
murder Member	Tue Mar 26 06:05:42 "Don't be retarded." It's not retarded. You seem distressed that one particular rambling of one particular white supremacist is being censored ... because he slaughtered a bunch of people and the government doesn't want him inspiring others to do the same. If you are jonesing for white nationalists ramblings, there is no shortage of supply, even though there should be. People like you should be restricted to buying this stuff at right wing militia events along with souvenir Nazi emblems and confederate flags.
Forwyn Member	Tue Mar 26 13:06:37 "Wow." lulzgul opts for the ad hominem of a guy I don't care about. He's still correct in his statements. "It's not retarded." Yes. It's retarded to cage people for right clicking on a link and hitting "Save As". You are intentionally avoiding the fact that people are facing 10 year charges for this, the definition of caging. Many retards, I imagine you included, fail to draw a distinction between this and CP, and so have no problem with such censorship. "B-b-but it's in the public interest", as decided by you, so you have no problem paying mercenaries to kick in doors for it. Grow a pair and do it yourself, then.
Forwyn Member	Tue Mar 26 13:14:10 "Lots of laws are horrible. But it is a Sovereign right to pass them." Agreed. But NZ is trying to hit above its weight class, and messaging foreign content hosts to get them to remove and/or store certain content - which makes this point laughable: "ISP blocking is done according to user agreements and has not been mandated by Government." You're incredibly naive if you think that the censor isn't getting involved, with gag orders on the ISP. Weird coming from such a skeptic of Western intelligence, that you would parrot what is essentially propaganda, and ignore the reality of cooperative agreements between providers and intel.
murder Member	Tue Mar 26 13:22:30 "Many retards, I imagine you included, fail to draw a distinction between this and CP" What is the distinction?
Forwyn Member	Tue Mar 26 13:32:37 That sex trafficking is an ongoing industry that victimizes an estimated 20+ million people worldwide, and patronizing media from this industry directly supports it. Fiction text, however, describing the same acts are not treated the same by law - for good reason. Reading the ramblings of a shooter don't make the victims any more dead. There are exactly zero prospective shooters who will be swayed into committing an actual crime because they read Brenton Tarrant's Navy Seal copypasta. There may, however, be people who are victimized by the state for reading words that are pushed to commit crimes of violence. Hopefully it will be directed at censor bureaucrats, judges, and legislators that push for such nonsense, instead of random civilians.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 26 13:50:11 Fowyn What adhom? New Zealand doing what amounts to sending out cease and desist messages are fine as the venues are available in New Zealand. I think it simply is a case of ISP providers abiding by New Zealand law and their own user agreements. There is no need for censorship involvement beyond the censor ruling. I think one of the dangers of your perspectives is that the illusion of privacy would ultimately hings on a vast array of cooperative agreements between private industry and intelligence agencies. Extremism is incidentally also an ongoing industry that victimize incalculable millions. But to put it this way. Do you think authorative "how to" sex trafficing handbooks written by known sex trafficers should be protected by free speech legislation. In particular chapters on how to groom and recruit minors?
jergul large member	Tue Mar 26 13:52:23 (I will ramp it up with known paedophiles writting practical handbooks, so you can respond to that too if you like)
Forwyn Member	Tue Mar 26 14:20:11 Only bootlickers think the Anarchist Cookbook should be banned and that people should go to prison for a decade for saving it on the hard drive. No illicit businessman is going to give away trade secrets to competitors, much less ways and means to government agencies.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 26 14:34:05 Well, thank goodness there are no bootlickers in this forum then. This issue relates more to "why" and "who", than it does to "how" Incitement is also illegal in the US and is not protected by the first ammendment. How to kill humans is generally protected in all jurisdictions. "Who to kill and why" is often not protected. It was a thought experiment. Should grooming and recruiting minors guides be legal in your mind?
Daemon Member	Fri Mar 29 06:13:01 http://www...new_zealand_manifesto_malware/ Someone's spreading an MBR-trashing copy of the Christchurch killer's 'manifesto' – and we're OK with this, maybe? Nah, of course we're not in favor of vigilante malware knackering people's PCs By Shaun Nichols in San Francisco 28 Mar 2019 Hacktivists are spreading booby-trapped copies of the New Zealand mass shooter's Islamophobic rantings, in what is being described as an online "vigilante" operation. Security house Blue Hexagon claims it discovered a version of the killer's manifesto doing the rounds online containing Windows malware that, when executed with the necessary privileges, reboots the system and leaves the user staring at an anti-racist message. The idea being to punish those who seek out the document, it appears. [... read rest at link]
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 06:54:25 Daemon I am not a fan at all. That combines the principle of doxing (I am assuming a viral infection can access mailing lists for example) with an assumption of knowing the political views of the infectee. Finally. A really good reason for not banning the material in the first place.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 06:55:43 Flip-flop. I am now against banning the manifesto. That vigilante action changes my position.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 06:56:43 (or rather, I am now against states using their sovereign right to pass and enforce law to ban the manifesto).
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