Utopia Talk / Politics / Sebs migrants strike again

Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 27 13:38:40 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8732429/isis-busted-german-train-terror-plot Local newspaper Kronen Zeitung reports the father-of- five served for 15 years in the Iraqi army and was living in Austria as a refugee while working for a security company. The 42-year-old was arrested on Monday and prosecutors said he is suspected of "carrying out terrorist attacks on railway lines in Germany in October and December 2018." Prosecutors said then man in custody is suspected of attempted murder, causing serious damage to property, membership in a terrorist organisation and dangerous interference in railway traffic. Bavaria's Interior Minister, Joachim Herrmann, reportedly praised the "excellent international co-operation" in a press release, and said the investigation was going "at full speed" to establish the facts. The arrest comes just days after German police arrested 10 people on suspicion of planning an Islamist attack. Prosecutors said those suspects had plotted to "kill as many 'non-believers' as possible".
Nekran Member	Wed Mar 27 15:42:27 Man who works in science building posts tabloid link again
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 27 21:42:15 Poor nekran. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-47719402
smart dude Member	Thu Mar 28 00:55:13 An occasionally unreliable person says something (e.g. "the sky is blue") so it must be untrue. What is the name for that fallacy?
smart dude Member	Thu Mar 28 00:56:45 Oh, meanwhile you have the resources (your neck muscles in this analogy) to test whether it is true or not. But you don't do it and spend even more time typing "something something tabloid" than it would have taken to actually find a more reliable source only to find that it says exactly the same thing as the tabloid.
Nekran Member	Thu Mar 28 01:37:53 I did not deny the story. I just pointed out how you work in a science building and read tabloids all day. It amuses me.
smart dude Member	Thu Mar 28 03:53:09 My personal guess is he doesn't "read tabloids," but found the story on some kind of news agregate service. I doubt very many people outside England type "www.thesun.co.uk" into their browsers and intentionally wade into that cesspool.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 28 06:38:31 However he finds them, he still ears through them. All he ever posts are links to tabloids. It's hotrod the next generation. Hotrod only got his news from sky. Sam is a millennial digital native, so naturally he's getting his tabloid crap from a news aggregation service that had learned to send mostly stories about refuges committing criminal acts. The march of progress is wonderful to behold.
smart dude Member	Thu Mar 28 08:29:10 What exactly are we arguing about? Sam Adams' browsing history (don't care) or the reliability of the source of this particular article? I'm only talking about the latter. I get Seb's point and all, but "dur, that's a tabloid" isn't really much of an argument, especially given the fact that the same story appears on the WP, the AP, the BBC, etc.
smart dude Member	Thu Mar 28 08:38:55 Sam has it out for Muslims and/or Muslim refugees, but the mindset of "something something Millennial" is just as stupid and wrongheaded as the very same flaws that you are accusing "Millennials" as having. Millennials or other "digital natives" are no more likely to trust shitty sources than anyone else. Probably the opposite. The number of nutty old racist Internet-addicted dingbats (RIP Rod) that I've met is enough anecdotal evidence to convince me of this. Please don't be like every empty-headded pundit on XYZ media outlet and turn yet another bullshit topic into a "muh Millennials" debate.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 28 09:26:57 "All he ever posts are links to tabloids" Like the BBC?
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 28 09:30:31 This problem you bring to our attention makes us look bad and goes against our feelings? Shoot the messenger!
Nekran Member	Thu Mar 28 10:36:03 I was shooting at you. You do realise that the fact that there were plenty of decent sources for this article speaks against you, right?
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 28 12:02:17 Good thing your aim sucks. What you actually did was try to come up with an excuse to ignore a data point that hurt your feelings.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 28 12:02:48 Oh and you were proven wrong in about 5 seconds. Lol.
Nekran Member	Thu Mar 28 16:48:29 I love how sad you are :)
Seb Member	Fri Mar 29 01:57:03 Smart Dude: The point is Sam lives in a world where he only gets fed stories of refugees killing, leading to a badly distorted world view. He calls it a data point, for example, ignoring sources of systemic bias. I didn't suggest filter bubble was a millennial thing. I was directly comparing him to HotRod doing the same thing but on fox. The contrast is merely the mechanism, Sam thinks he's more sophisticated. Head just HotRod 2.0
Forwyn Member	Fri Mar 29 03:17:09 "sources of systemic bias" rofl
Pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 05:46:06 Who cares about the facts, so long that seb disagrees with how they're disseminated
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 06:59:10 Pillz The fact is that we will pass 10 billion people in not too long. This means that any imaginable thing will happen and be reported. The only way incidents can be relevant is by not generalizing from them without an extremely robust data set.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 07:00:09 You know what I mean. Florida is by far a greater threat to humanity than ISIS if we simply look at isolated incidents and generalize from there.
pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 07:15:00 Floridians throwing tantrums at drive-throughs or feeding their best-friend-turned-mcnugget thief to the local wildlife compares to ISIS 10/10 jergul
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 08:36:24 Pillz Or you could compare apples to apples. Like ISIS members throwing tantrums on the net, or violating corpses (I am unaware of ISIS going so extreme as feeding corpses to local wild life). But my point is that you should not generalize from isolated incidents because we would have to nuke florida if we did that.
pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 08:59:42 Isolated incidents? Like ones isolated to the Florida peninsula? What are we comparing those to against? Muslim attacks in Canada, France, Holland, Germany, Australia, Austria... yes - isolated. And once again, Im not sure what feeding a corpse to alligators or stabbing your brother over your Doritos should be compared to the mass murder, displacement, and subjugation of tens of thousands or destruction of world heritage sites. Media attention doesn't make things equivalent jergul - we get it. But muslims are also the only ones driving trucks through crowds in europe and stabbing people on trains and buses.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 09:10:21 We can do one sweeping generalization however: ISIS and Florida have more than their share of crazies.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 09:25:54 I would intuitively think Hindus top the stabbing on trains and buses by at least one order of magnitude. A Norwegian is currently in jail in the US for driving his car through a crowd. It happens quite regularly in the US. China and India certainly lead the way in mass murder, displacement and subjugation + death of culture. In the countless millions. The US is of course founded on those principles (For florida, read up on its indigenous population if you like). So Hindi, Buddist/Atheist, Christian Protestant.
Pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 09:29:05 Acting crazy for political and religious motives does not make you crazy. Meth does though, and that probably explains Florida. Does isis have a Meth problem?
Pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 09:30:22 Lol. We're just going to ignore 1400 out of 1500 years of Islamic history are we?
Pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 09:31:05 All 1500 years actually, wouldn't want to forget about the Muslim brotherhood or saddam or isis!
Pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 09:31:58 Kurds keeping Islamic traditions alive too in Syria. But let's blame the norweigns for it all
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 29 11:39:23 "systemic bias." The evidence is fake because sjw buzzword!!! Lol@seb
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 29 11:52:47 If you want to talk about systematic, why are you trying to ignore the evidence of a large number of muslim/african crimes despite being only a small portion of your population?
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 12:36:04 Pillz Being crazy for any reason means you are crazy. No culture beats christianity incidentally. Islam would be the religion of love in that comparison.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 29 12:51:20 Christianity, while obviously a primitive fairy tale, is still far more civilized in its current state than islam.
Pillz Member	Fri Mar 29 13:31:10 Islam: a religion of loving children Christianity has never been as barbaric than Islam.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 13:43:33 Pillz You do not remember much, do you? Remember if you will that societies were structured and based on Christian authority. Any royal mandate had a divine mandate (unless overruled directly by the church). Outrages per billion muslims are at historical lows, and far lower than outrages per capita in Florida.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 01 07:16:16 The fact that Sam isn't familiar with the statistical concept of systematic bias is all we need to know to understand that we should not pay him much heed.
Pillz Member	Mon Apr 01 08:14:12 Seb and jergul in a heated race to steal an old, dead man's legacy I see
Sam Adams Member	Mon Apr 01 10:04:08 Given that sam has not yet failed out of science, unlike seb, i am quite sure i understand bias far better than you. Throwing systematic in front of it and using it to refer to every other item percieved as problematic by social justice whiners, turns it into a useless buzzphrase that means nothing.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 01 10:14:26 Sam: We are suggesting that you get most of your data via a news agregator service that you have unwittingly trained to feed to tabloid sensational stories about immigrants committing violent acts. That's a textbook case of systematic bias.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 01 10:14:50 As in a stats text book. What you do, Sam, isn't science.
Pillz Member	Mon Apr 01 10:18:53 Systematic bias... towards tabloid news like the BBC?
Pillz Member	Mon Apr 01 10:21:06 For reference, Sam's last two threads had ops from CNN. One of those was about violence by Muslims. Where is the systematic bias towards tabloids seb?
Forwyn Member	Mon Apr 01 10:43:51 Minorities' crime levels exceed their population numbers - Sebgul: systemic bias! Black and Muslim nations crime levels' exceed their neighbors - Sebgul: poverty, inequality! East Asian crime levels remain lower than their neighbors - Sebgul: ... (Sebgul)...but also racist immigration policies!
Seb Member	Mon Apr 01 11:15:40 Forwyn: You failed to control for socio economic indicators, that's a bias. Or incompetence.
pillz Member	Mon Apr 01 12:06:46 minorities still commit crimes at astronomically higher levels even when accounting for socio economic status. but but but systemic bias!
pillz Member	Mon Apr 01 12:10:49 Im still waiting for the sebsplaination of how CNN is a british tabloid
Seb Member	Mon Apr 01 12:30:06 Pillz: I'm still wondering why you are waiting for that. Perhaps try a hunger strike? Might convince me.
Forwyn Member	Mon Apr 01 12:55:24 "socio economic indicators" Dirt poor Cambodian rice farmers commit crimes at a far lower rate than the same class of peoples in Ghana, so which indicators, exactly? The first SE Asian nation on the list for intentional homicide rate, for example, is the Philippines. What demographic trend sets it apart from it's neighbors, I wonder?
Seb Member	Mon Apr 01 15:17:02 Forwyn: "Dirt poor Cambodian rice farmers commit crimes at a far lower rate than the same class of peoples in Ghana" Are you serious?
Forwyn Member	Mon Apr 01 15:39:34 I picked one of the absolute worst African nations as an example - British colony, relatively wealthy in it's region, super-majority Christian, etc. And it still virtually breaks even with a shithole Commie country that spent a generation killing themselves into long-term poverty. lulz
Forwyn Member	Mon Apr 01 15:40:49 Feel free to sub in, say, Kenya or Ethiopia.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 01 16:06:20 Wow. Your serious. Ok, can I suggest you do some research on methodological approaches for studies in criminology, particularly the applicability of cross jurisdictional comparisons. tl;dr they are very very hard because there are so many uncontrolled factors.
Forwyn Member	Mon Apr 01 16:42:13 i.e. every factor is environmental and hard to pin down. Nature and nurture, except when it produced undesirable results. Then it's just nurture.
Seb Member	Wed Apr 03 15:28:32 It's your obligation to prove your theory, not mine to accept it. If you haven't got proof to definitively rule out nurture, it's just baseless speculation to positively attribute it to nature and you have no business promoting it as an explanation.
Forwyn Member	Wed Apr 03 15:39:56 Sure. It could also be an inferior culture. Curious that it appears to span nations and continents, though.
Seb Member	Wed Apr 03 16:04:16 It could be the devil too. It could be astrological signs. It could be bad humours in the air. Could could could could could. Your opinion, absent evidence definitively ruling out other causes, is opinion that necessarily can only be formed by your prejudices.
Forwyn Member	Wed Apr 03 16:20:55 Like your assertion of systemic biases? lulz
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