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Utopia Talk / Politics / Daily reminder: leftists are murderers
Rugian
Member
Sat Mar 30 14:35:27
And not only that, but they expect every taxpayer to fund their murders to boot. Disgusting.

"Pro-Lifers To Rally on Boston Common Against ‘ROE Act’ Abortion Bill Saturday

March 26, 2019

Massachusetts Citizens for Life is planning a rally this coming weekend against a bill that would remove most remaining restrictions on abortion in Massachusetts.

The so-called ROE Act would make it easier to get abortions after 24 weeks and would remove a requirement that underage girls get permission from their parents or from a judge to get an abortion.

The bill would also remove a requirement currently in state law doctors try to save the life of a baby born alive after an attempted abortion. In addition, abortions performed after 24 weeks would no longer have to take place in a hospital.

It would also expand public funding of abortion beyond women poor enough to qualify for Medicaid."

http://new...oe-act-abortion-bill-saturday/
Rugian
Member
Sat Mar 30 14:42:54
For all the shit the Republicans get about being insane pro-lifers, their national policy on abortion is actually quite reasonable: legal for 20 weeks, but you pay for it.

I'm really hoping that people actually start abandoning the Democrats over this. They've completely gone off the sanity cliff since 2016.
hood
Member
Sat Mar 30 15:50:41
Oh my god, what a whining vagina. Did you look at the proposed law?

"A physician, acting within their lawful scope of practice, may perform an abortion when, according to the physician’s best medical judgment based on the facts of the patient’s case, the patient is beyond twenty-four weeks from the commencement of pregnancy and the abortion is necessary to protect the patient’s life or physical or mental health, or in cases of lethal fetal anomalies, or where the fetus is incompatible with sustained life outside the uterus."

So you can abort a baby beyond 24 weeks to save the mother or if the fetus is not viable. That's about as common sense as it gets.

http://malegislature.gov/Bills/191/SD109
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Mar 30 15:55:36
we established abortions after 24 weeks are almost exclusively from very defective babies (or at least no one demonstrated otherwise)

why do R's want to keep abominations unto nature alive?
Rugian
Member
Sat Mar 30 16:20:55
Hood,

Name-calling doesn't suit you. Jews are supposed to be significantly more circumspect in their dealings with the Gentile; it's the politeness factor that keeps us from lynching you Christ-killers on a regular basis after all.

Anyway, good job ignoring 95% of the proposed changes, including making abortion free for everyone (because we should encourage it as much as possible, amirite?), or letting teenagers have abortions at-will (because it's "my body my choice" when it's comes to a human life...but not for when it comes to smoking, alcohol, tobacco beds, etc...).

Not that that particular clause isn't onerous in and of itself, since it makes it easier to abort after week 24 and let the kid die on the fucking table after he's delivered.

And for the record, I'm pro-choice. Don't want to have a kid? Don't have sex. Otherwise you can live with your decision, slut.

tw,

So why drive to open up the loophole in the first place then?
Rugian
Member
Sat Mar 30 16:22:53
*tobacco beds -> tanning beds. Apparently in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, if you're under 18 you're not considered legally competent to get a tan but you are capable of determining whether to murder a fucking human being. Makes complete sense.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sat Mar 30 16:37:44
"For all the shit the Republicans get about being insane pro-lifers, their national policy on abortion is actually quite reasonable: legal for 20 weeks, but you pay for it. "

Give the link to that Republican national policy, pls. And explain why it should be illegal on week 21.
Rugian
Member
Sat Mar 30 16:44:15
CR,

http://pro...INAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf

Pages 13-14

As for the cutoff, I'm not wedded to it, but it does seem to be a pretty good middle-ground point (halfway through second trimester). If you wanted to argue a few additional weeks' allowance I wouldn't be automatically opposed to it, but I don't think Week 20 is unreasonable either.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sat Mar 30 16:53:10

Error 403 Forbidden On you link

“As for the cutoff, I'm not wedded to it, but it does seem to be a pretty good middle-ground point”

You are not wedded to it, means we can name any other number of weeks and you will think it is reasonable. I’m ok with that, it is indeed reasonable
Rugian
Member
Sat Mar 30 16:58:47
CR,

First of all, "any other week" is a no.

Secondly, live in a less shitty country.

"REPUBLICAN PLATFORM 2016

The Fifth Amendment: Protecting Human Life

The Constitution’s guarantee that no one can “be deprived of life, liberty or property” deliberately echoes the Declaration of Independence’s proclamation that “all” are “endowed by their Creator” with the inalienable right to life. Accordingly, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to children before birth.

We oppose the use of public funds to perform or promote abortion or to fund organizations, like Planned Parenthood, so long as they provide or refer for elective abortions or sell fetal body parts rather than provide healthcare. We urge all states and Congress to make it a crime to acquire, transfer, or sell fetal tissues from elective abortions for research, and we call on Congress to enact a ban on any sale of fetal body parts. In the meantime, we call on Congress to ban the practice of misleading women on so-called fetal harvesting consent forms, a fact revealed by a 2015 investigation. We will not fund or subsidize healthcare that includes abortion coverage.

We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life. We oppose the non-consensual withholding or withdrawal of care or treatment, including food and water, from individuals with disabilities, newborns, the elderly, or the infirm, just as we oppose euthanasia and assisted suicide.

We affirm our moral obligation to assist, rather than penalize, women who face an unplanned pregnancy. In order to encourage women who face an unplanned pregnancy to choose life, we support legislation that requires financial responsibility for the child be equally borne by both the mother and father upon conception until the child reaches adulthood. Failure to require a father to be equally responsible for a child places an inequitable burden on the mother, creating a financial and social hardship on both mother and child. We celebrate the millions of Americans who open their hearts, homes, and churches to mothers in need and women fleeing abuse. We thank and encourage providers of counseling, medical services, and adoption assistance for empowering women experiencing an unintended pregnancy to choose life. We support funding for ultrasounds and adoption assistance. We salute the many states that now protect women and girls through laws requiring informed consent, parental consent, waiting periods, and clinic regulation. We condemn the Supreme Court’s activist decision in Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt striking down commonsense Texas laws providing for basic health and safety standards in abortion clinics.

We applaud the U.S. House of Representatives for leading the effort to add enforcement to the Born-Alive Infant Protection Act by passing the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which imposes appropriate civil and criminal penalties on healthcare providers who fail to provide treatment and care to an infant who survives an abortion, including early induction delivery whether the death of the infant is intended. We strongly oppose infanticide. Over a dozen states have passed Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Acts prohibiting abortion after twenty weeks, the point at which current medical research shows that unborn babies can feel excruciating pain during abortions, and we call on Congress to enact the federal version. Not only is it good legislation, but it enjoys the support of a majority of the American people. We support state and federal efforts against the cruelest forms of abortion, especially dismemberment abortion procedures, in which unborn babies are literally torn apart limb from limb.

We call on Congress to ban sex-selection abortions and abortions based on disabilities — discrimination in its most lethal form. We oppose embryonic stem cell research. We oppose federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. We support adult stem cell research and urge the restoration of the national placental stem cell bank created by President George H.W. Bush but abolished by his Democrat successor, President Bill Clinton. We oppose federal funding for harvesting embryos and call for a ban on human cloning.

The Democratic Party is extreme on abortion. Democrats’ almost limitless support for abortion, and their strident opposition to even the most basic restrictions on abortion, put them dramatically out of step with the American people. Because of their opposition to simple abortion clinic safety procedures, support for taxpayer-funded abortion, and rejection of pregnancy resource centers that provide abortion alternatives, the old Clinton mantra of “safe, legal, and rare” has been reduced to just “legal.” We are proud to be the party that protects human life and offers real solutions for women.
"
CrownRoyal
Member
Sat Mar 30 17:01:47
“First of all, "any other week" is a no. ”

That’s why I asked to explain why not week 21, I got some middling nothing from you. By all mean, I will ask again.

“Secondly, live in a less shitty country. ”

I am in Mexico currently, might have something to do with it.let me read this document that you posted
CrownRoyal
Member
Sat Mar 30 17:03:33
What is the source of this? My question is - how is this the “national republican policy”? Do you want me to post Republican platforms that calls for abortion bans longer than 20 weeks?
CrownRoyal
Member
Sat Mar 30 17:14:58
I googled the text, I see that this is from GOP on the issues in 2016. So just let me know why not week 18, for example.
hood
Member
Sat Mar 30 17:18:06
"Jews are supposed to be significantly more circumspect in their dealings with the Gentile; it's the politeness factor that keeps us from lynching you Christ-killers on a regular basis after all."

My turn. Where do you work? I find your views offensive and want to make sure Nazi fucks are unemployable.


"Anyway, good job ignoring 95% of the proposed changes"

Read the fucking bill. I linked it. Not a single mention of cost. I also happen to not care if they allow teenagers to get pregnancies without parental permission. I didn't consider it worthy of inclusion since it was 1. in the link I provided and 2. not mentioned in any of your effeminate wailing.


"Not that that particular clause isn't onerous in and of itself, since it makes it easier to abort after week 24 and let the kid die on the fucking table after he's delivered."

It mentions precisely nothing about letting a fetus die. Methinks the mother in you is all out of whack, throwing your mamma bear instincts into high gear.
Rugian
Member
Sat Mar 30 17:33:03
Hood,

As I see it, you're rather playing into my point. Regardless, you started a debate by calling opponents "whining vagina[s]" and have now been reduced to threatening to call in the authorities. Don't start what you can't finish.

CR,

I was trying to demonstrate some flexibility on the issue. That was clearly a mistake when it comes to the like of you. Show any inclination towards compromise and you will be skewered for it.

For the record, the RNC position (which I already linked AND posted) stated that Week 20 is the point where unborn children start to feel significant pain. As I'm not a medical expert I can't say whether that's correct or not; however there is a certain point of development where I feel abortion should be absolutely prohibited, barring threats to the mother's life.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sat Mar 30 17:39:12
“I was trying to demonstrate some flexibility on the issue. That was clearly a mistake when it comes to the like of you. Show any inclination towards compromise and you will be skewered for it. ”

I always appreciate attempts to compromise, actually. But nobody is able to credibly explain this one. If you consider abortion murder, how do you compromise? Week 19 murder is ok? Compromise is for arguing about sales tax rate, or shit like that. See, two people that do not consider abortion murder, those two can compromise on the number of weeks, if they choose. Not the public who really believes that babies are slaughtered
hood
Member
Sat Mar 30 18:23:07
"Regardless, you started a debate by calling opponents "whining vagina[s]""

No, I called you a whining vagina.


"threatening to call in the authorities"

So you are either a humorless twit or being purposely intellectually dishonest. Neither outcome looks good for you.
hood
Member
Sat Mar 30 18:25:07
Oh, also.

Trying to equate being called a vagina to not-all-that-hidden death threats is an astounding leap of logic. Calling the authorities is generally the appropriate response to the threat of physical violence.
obaminated
Member
Sun Mar 31 01:18:52
"So you can abort a baby beyond 24 weeks to save the mother" without the mothers approval or consent. i am sorry that you are so far gone that human life has next to zero value to you.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Mar 31 01:25:34
...as you fight against universal healthcare
obaminated
Member
Sun Mar 31 02:15:27
there is a difference between understanding why the american health care system attracts foreigners and also understanding that human value exists even if they cant speak for themselves.
hood
Member
Sun Mar 31 04:48:32
"without the mothers approval or consent."

Are you fucking high? The bill literally states that no abortions can be performed without written consent. No medical procedures of any kind can be performed without consent (usually written).

You know what they say about going full retard...
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun Mar 31 05:25:37
”we established abortions after 24 weeks are almost exclusively from very defective babies (or at least no one demonstrated otherwise)” [citation needed]
jergul
large member
Sun Mar 31 08:30:59
Ruggy
You are anti abortion too? Lay off the cool-aid, man.
hood
Member
Sun Mar 31 10:52:31
@ nim

not really how it works. Abuse of the ability to have abortions after 24 weeks is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. In the absence of that evidence, tw's assertion is correct.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Mar 31 11:36:15
@nim

this was the article i referenced recently in another thread... search for evidence opposing if you want
http://www...72/donald-trump-abortion-wrong
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Mar 31 11:38:02
(the article is titled with '9 months' to counter Trump's nonsense, but specifically discusses all 24+ week scenarios)
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Mar 31 11:56:33
For a party that correctly wants shitty 3rd world countries and criminals to starve and die, the fascination with unwanted proto life, is pretty hypocritical.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Mar 31 15:31:24
Georgia passed a 'fetal heartbeat' law trying to ban abortions after 6 weeks or so

(governor has not signed it yet, but is an R)


detect your parasites quick!
obaminated
Member
Sun Mar 31 22:46:53
"For a party that correctly wants shitty 3rd world countries and criminals to starve and die, the fascination with unwanted proto life, is pretty hypocritical."

conservatives don't want to murder people from poor countries, that is your racism-looking-for-support speaking.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Apr 06 03:41:32
The claim was, almost all abortions after week 24 are medically necessary. Where are the stats, abortions and reason? Already aware that this is less than 1% of abortions in the US and generally in most countries. That is still thousands of abortions.

Re the article:
I have anecdotal evidence of women walking into planned parenthood after week 24 and noone asks for a reason or raises an eyebrow. And an OB/GYN that says not a single condition requires a third trimester abortion. So let’s not do that, let us examin the facts. And the fact is, there are no stats on the ”why” of abortion, not anything remotely reliable anyway as very few states report this.

Small sample studies based on interviews N=28 show half state ”can’t find a provider” type reasons for the abortion and that the rational between those have early vs late term is very similar. All these studies suffer from severe limitation.

Reality is that this is one of those issues right now that no one wants to study because it could get inconvenient really quick.
jergul
large member
Sat Apr 06 07:36:07
Nimi
The uncomfortable lynchpin is who defines medical nessessity.

Doctors do, and they can literally get away with what otherwise would be murder with a caution and perhaps slightly increased malpractice insurance rates.

Thing is, do we want a different system where someone other than doctors define what is medically needed?

I don't, though I acknowledge the difficulties.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Apr 06 11:30:58
the article states:
"
fewer than 0.3 percent occur at or after -21- weeks for *non-genetic* reasons
" (presumably she got that # somewhere)

and suggests near zero after -24- weeks (the writer hadn't heard of it, says people are turned away)

for 'health of the mother': they attempt to deliver early & save baby if possible so that's not really an abortion

for 'defective baby': (seemingly 99.99%, based on article)... off w/ its heads
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