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Utopia Talk / Politics / Aoc is retarded
obaminated
Member
Mon Apr 01 10:12:29
Seriously. Someone knock her up and put her in the kitchen where she belongs.

http://www...ution-prevent-FDR-elected.html
Forwyn
Member
Mon Apr 01 10:33:50
Leave it to AOC, even beyond her faulty facts, to think FDR was a good president. lulz
Pillz
Member
Mon Apr 01 10:39:28
You could have done worse, especially given the circumstances. You entered his presidency in economic ruin and emerged as a super power (one of two).

You had a lot of shitty presidents, too.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 01 11:09:07
yeah, she's way off, what an idiot... i'm sure Trump & his fans all knew the facts...

also, if it was a response to FDR (as it seems to be) then basically the same point
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 01 11:25:10
did Fox News cover AOC's great response to Mike Lee's 'more babies are the solution' presentation?

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything"


...given they discuss her so excessively
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 01 11:45:11
OP is a good example of her stupidity. Another decent one was during her "firey" speech where she defended GND (which deals with climate change) by citing Flynt, Michigan and asthma levels in the Bronx.

She's a complete child.
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 01 11:50:57
Tw,

A common complaint by the right about the left is that the left doesnt understand humor. Cortez's (I'm only using one of her last names from now on because that apparently triggers her big-time) response basically played right into that.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 01 11:57:58
Mike Lee's solution was not meant as a joke... please cite the claims in the babies section that were meant to be funny... transcript is in the other thread (if that's what you're claiming)
--------

as for who is retarded, let's look at the person who actually has the power to implement his ideas:

"With a [trade] deficit like we have with Mexico and have had for many years, closing the border will be a profit-making operation."

closing the border will be profitable? one of the many times he's demonstrated his complete misunderstanding of trade deficits

plus we'd be raking all the leaves from our forests to prevent forest fires if he was fully in control... he could be the one who gets us watering crops with Brawndo


go watch AOC's questioning of Cohen, she did one of the best jobs despite being a newbie... try to picture Trump doing it
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 01 12:27:28
actually browsing Lee's speech of bad humor & stupid serious solution, his 2 main problems w/ the Green New Deal were the no planes & no cows... which aren't in the Green New Deal

so, yes, his whole dumb speech deserves mockery... not a word of usefulness
yankeessuck123
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:16:09
It's a very positive statement that the best the reactionary right has been able to come up with for AOC is "lol brown woman dumb". Meanwhile, she's living rent-free in all of their heads, as the propaganda engines run overtime in feckless fury.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:23:35
Does anyone give a shit that she's "brown"?
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:26:04
22nd amendment was passed after FDR death, but it was unquestionably done in response to FDR, in fact in 1944 Dewey campaigned on it. So, this is not a big stretch

Wiki
Four years later, Roosevelt faced Republican Thomas E. Dewey in the 1944 election. Near the end of the campaign, Thomas Dewey announced his support of a constitutional amendment that would limit future presidents to two terms.

Forwyn
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:41:55
There's a big difference between, "In the future, we should make Washington's tradition Constitutionally-enshrined, because Drug War-minority internment-private land quota would-be dictators are more likely to adhere to biological limitations than unenumerated social pressures", and "We passed A22 to prevent FDR's corpse from winning the next election". It's quite clear from the context of her statement that A22 was the result of "them" doing everything in their power to stop the glorious revolution of the common people, as she sees it.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:45:34
As long as we are having fun with her statement, remember how GOP senator brought a snowball on the chamber floor, to explain that global warming is a hoax?
hood
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:45:49
When trumpsplainers refuse AOCsplainers' explanations...
murder
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:46:35

"Leave it to AOC, even beyond her faulty facts, to think FDR was a good president. lulz"

The fewest electoral votes he got in 4 elections was 432, so it's safe to say that America thought he was a good president.

CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:47:15
Or how idiot Rand claimed that Ebola is easily transmitted and highly contagious? Double stupidity points for being an MD
Forwyn
Member
Mon Apr 01 13:54:22
"remember how GOP senator brought a snowball on the chamber floor"

Don't doubt it. Retarded ideologues tend to emerge from safe districts, whether it be Oklahoma or the Bronx.
obaminated
Member
Mon Apr 01 19:09:13
Seriously. Who has ever commented on her being brown? Ys being a dumbass while defending a dumbass.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Apr 01 20:30:29
And unlike other retard ideologues from safe districts, she's a media darling who talking heads are already pushing for President in like 2028. No retardation from a flyover Republican will fill the media slate for multiple days unless it involves mUh racism or sexism.
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 01 20:36:49
Forwyn
Member Mon Apr 01 20:30:29
And unlike other retard ideologues from safe districts, she's a media darling who talking heads are already pushing for President in like 2028.

----

Seriously. It'd be one thing if this woman was completely ignored by the Democratic leadership and was only getting attention from Fox & Friends, but she's practically setting fucking policy right now. It's completely relevant to pay attention to what she says.

And YS is a complete hack for drawing the race card. NO ONE has brought up her skin color against her. Hell, you even can't be racist against her voters - it was a bunch of faggy college-educated white millennials that got her through primaries; while blacks and Latinos in her district supported her incumbent.

Incidentally, that last fact is yet more proof that college is a leftist indoctrination vehicle whose primary purpose is to propagandize rather than to actually educate. No wonder Comrade Bernie wants to make it free for everyone.
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 01 20:41:35
TW,

"Mike Lee's solution was not meant as a joke... please cite the claims in the babies section that were meant to be funny..."

I interpreted that last part to be an attempt to attack Democrats' extreme positions on abortion. I agree it was kind of awkward. Regardless, the rest of the speech was clearly in jest.

The rest of your post belongs more in official BS by delusional fraud POTUS#7.
Y2A
Member
Mon Apr 01 21:31:33
AOCDS
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 01 21:39:49
Looking for a job there Y2A?

"AOCDS: OC Pension System Should Fire its Actuary"

http://voi...ystem-should-fire-its-actuary/
Y2A
Member
Mon Apr 01 21:43:43
LOL, nice one!
murder
Member
Tue Apr 02 14:41:14

"No wonder Comrade Bernie wants to make it free for everyone."

Comrade Bernie wants to make it free for everyone because it's good policy.

Rugian
Member
Tue Apr 02 17:47:36
NSFW

http://i.redd.it/mbowtvjqksp21.jpg
obaminated
Member
Tue Apr 02 17:49:37
I like it
kargen
Member
Tue Apr 02 19:15:06
"Comrade Bernie wants to make it free for everyone because it's good policy."

Except it would never be free. What Bernie really wants is for someone else to pay for it. Meaning the same thing will happen to tuition that happened to health insurance. In two years time the price will increase 400%. It isn't good policy it is a way to bankrupt the country.

murder
Member
Tue Apr 02 20:18:54

"Except it would never be free. What Bernie really wants is for someone else to pay for it. Meaning the same thing will happen to tuition that happened to health insurance. In two years time the price will increase 400%. It isn't good policy it is a way to bankrupt the country."

Yes, investing in an educated populace will surely lead to disaster.
Rugian
Member
Tue Apr 02 20:24:30
You can "educate" someone on anything. I'm sure the Red Guards were "educated" compared to their neighbors.
murder
Member
Tue Apr 02 20:34:37

Obviously ... as evidenced by all the right wing loons educated on fake news and history.


kargen
Member
Tue Apr 02 21:54:30
"Yes, investing in an educated populace will surely lead to disaster."

No you are wrong again. Investing in education is a great idea. Should be left to the private sector. There are a lot of scholarships that are not handed out each year simply because nobody applies.
Involve the government and you are going to be spending much much more and getting less. Again same way it worked with insurance.

A cost increase is almost exact opposite of free.
kargen
Member
Tue Apr 02 22:20:21
Back to the topic though.

You know the old gag about telling someone their house burned down then when they are all upset you tell them actually your house didn't burn down all that happened is a window got broke. Then you say aren't you happy it wasn't a fire.

AOC is the house fire. Someone convinced her and a few others this socialist/green idea all sewn up in one package is a good idea. Next election they will be replaced with people who have some other nutty green idea and will point out at least it isn't as crazy as that green new deal AOC was pushing. Their hope is we will all accept their crazy idea because at least it isn't a house fire.
As far as Democrats are concerned the crazier she goes the better. The established Democrats want these nuts to go way left so they look sane in comparison in 2020 and beyond.
hood
Member
Tue Apr 02 22:44:55
"Should be left to the private sector."

That's really fucking stupid.
obaminated
Member
Tue Apr 02 22:54:08
said the moron who thinks private schooling produces less successful kids than public schooling.

but hood did his predictable "you are stupid" response.
kargen
Member
Tue Apr 02 23:09:59
The thing with leaving it to the private sector is they tend to invest in areas they have a need. So instead of fifty thousand sociologists competing for that one opening in a community college somewhere you have a bunch of engineers that can actually apply what they learned and often have jobs waiting for them.
hood
Member
Tue Apr 02 23:12:18
Who is that private schooling comment directed at?


"but hood did his predictable "you are stupid" response."

This would be irony if it weren't so predictable.
hood
Member
Tue Apr 02 23:14:30
"The thing with leaving it to the private sector is"

... that it's stupid. The private sector is never going to cough up the money required to properly educate the population. Quality education pays for itself in its impact to the overall economy.
kargen
Member
Wed Apr 03 00:31:50
Yet they seem to be doing it all the time. Scholarships are going unclaimed. Large companies are offering training and/or school if you are willing to start your career with them. Corporations have all kinds of grants aimed to give them the future workforce they need.

True they may not be willing to pay for gender recognition studies but not much market for that particular skill in the workplace anyway.

The idiots on the left want everybody to be able to go to any four year school they wish and study whatever the fuck they want. That isn't going to help anyone but those running the schools.

You still have failed to address the inevitable soaring price of education if the federal government were to pick up the tab. Even if the government locks tuition costs colleges will find another way to run prices up a few hundred percent.
jergul
large member
Wed Apr 03 02:43:10
"You still have failed to address the inevitable soaring price of education if the federal government were to pick up the tab."

Socialized post secondary education is dirt cheap compared to what yours cost kargen.

Same as with health care really.

There are just some things the public has to benchmark and private industry can supplement on similar terms.

But you would just waste the savings on invading someone anyway.
kargen
Member
Wed Apr 03 14:01:44
"Socialized post secondary education is dirt cheap compared to what yours cost kargen."

That may be, but it would be unsustainable in the United States. You have to compare successes from countries with near the same population as the United States.

Obamacare caused insurance rates to go up more than 400%. It also caused an increase in deductibles and less coverage overall without going outside Obamacare for supplemental coverage. How it worked in other countries doesn't matter. How it worked in the US is it caused a huge increase in overall cost.

Either way education wouldn't be free and those spouting free education for all are lying. What they are advocating is subsidized education and in the US government subsidies means cost increases.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Apr 03 14:10:54
"Obamacare caused insurance rates to go up more than 400%"

Wha do you want to post first? Health insurance rates increased by year, starting say, about 1990?
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Apr 03 14:13:17
Because your retarded statement sure sounds like you are retardedly claiming that everyone is paying 400% more for their health insurance since 2010
kargen
Member
Wed Apr 03 15:52:43
Didn't say everyone is paying 400% more. I am saying prices went up 400%. To get a policy similar to what you could get before Obamacare it would cost 400% more if you did it yourself. The government subsidizes the payment though so the individual is paying less. That doesn't mean insurance costs less it means someone else is picking up the tab.

You see we are a capitalist society because there isn't a viable alternative available. Being capitalist business owners take advantage of stupid government policies to increase profits.

If the government decided everybody in the country had to buy four apples every day whether they were going to eat an apple of not and further decided if you can't afford four apples a day the government will purchase them for you what do you think would happen to the price of apples? Yep the price would increase because the government didn't cap the price they just offered to pay for the apples no matter the cost.

That is what happened to health insurance and what will happen to education.
kargen
Member
Wed Apr 03 15:55:43
Should have included in my first post this is for individuals. Insurance costs for people who are covered through their work haven't seen this amount of increase though there has been a steady increase since Obamacare passed.

No reason at all to expect education costs wouldn't also increase if the government promised to pick up the tab.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Apr 03 16:04:36
“I am saying prices went up 400%”

Link? Before we start to discuss the rest of your dumbassary
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Apr 03 16:06:23
“The government subsidizes the payment though so the individual is paying less. That doesn't mean insurance costs less it means someone else is picking up the tab. ”


Who is picking up the tab for any other spending?
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Apr 03 16:08:40
“Should have included in my first post this is for individuals.”

Yeah, you should have. Plus, you should have included the increases for the years prior to ACA passage, to see the picture clearly. But that would be too much to ask, so i iseasier to just post nonsense
kargen
Member
Wed Apr 03 18:45:54
taxpayers are picking up the tab. Funny how that works.

And price increases before were minimal on average. If you got stuck in a pool with a lot of claims it could increase quite a bit but then you could just switch insurance and get the price back down again. No doing that now.

The real fun part is if you get health insurance outside of Obamacare the increase is only around 140% since 2013. It is the subsidized insurance that has ballooned like crazy.

Back to those apples the government is paying for.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Apr 03 18:48:43
Why did AOC just get insurance for the first time?

It wasn't affordable?

Or did she just decide to ignore the Democratic mandate?
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Apr 03 18:53:16
“And price increases before were minimal on average”

Any chance that you produce the link to your stupid claims, retard? Or are we wasting time again?

“I am saying prices went up 400%”

Link? What prices? Based on ACA?
kargen
Member
Wed Apr 03 19:55:39
Prices of individual insurance bought through the exchange.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Apr 03 19:58:56
Link, cretin. Comparisons to pre ACA years, if you want to claim ACA “caused” anything
jergul
large member
Wed Apr 03 20:55:05
Kargen
I see you are busy. But still...

"That may be, but it would be unsustainable in the United States. You have to compare successes from countries with near the same population as the United States"

Economy of scale tends to scale. Health care or education should be cheaper due to volume, not more expensive according to capitalist theory.

The correct measure for health care is per capita.

Adopting the principles of a single payer system (mainly universal coverage) while keeping the insurance system intact - is a travesty and the droids you are looking for.

The US does have specific costly problems (the opiate crisis and the long term costs of the war on terror - 9 million veterans are served yearly compared to 5.6 million in 2014).
jergul
large member
Wed Apr 03 21:02:35
heh

26 million veterans in 2002. Of those, 4.3 million used VA services.

19 million veterans in 2017. Of those, 9 million used VA services.
kargen
Member
Thu Apr 04 01:15:22
If the single payer system is going to treat citizens the way our VA treats veterans we damn sure do not want it.
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 04 01:49:16
Kargen
I was simply outlining some reasons why your health care costs are balloning. Invading places costs a lot of money over time.

Data seems to indicate that more and more people opt for treatment in the VA system. As a percentage of those that qualify.

I bet I can match you 10 to one on any outrage you can post from VA services, I will find 10 involving insurance or denial of service.

I am starting to get the idea that you simply do not like the idea of universal healthcare.
kargen
Member
Thu Apr 04 03:18:43
I don't think universal health care is viable in the United States.

I also do not like a large federal government. Defense, infrastructure, treaties, trade, treasury and that is about it for what I think the federal government should be. I understand we are at a point where we need more than that but still we need to keep the federal government as small and out of our lives as possible.

I think we should be paying much lower federal taxes and maybe slightly higher state taxes. Social programs should be at the state or local area. It isn't just universal health care I think is a bad idea.

As example I think a federal minimum wage is a bad idea. If there must be a law for a living wage it should be based on local cost of living. It doesn't cost the same to live in Garden City Kansas as it does in San Francisco. Thinking the same minimum wage can be applied to both cities and not cause harm is beyond stupid.

Back to the healthcare thing. Take a look at the problems France is having. Their system is being overwhelmed. THe biggest contributor to that is the aging population. The USA has the same problem. A hell of a lot of baby boomers are going to start (already started actually) taxing the system whether it is private or government run. A universal healthcare system has a much smaller chance of being able to cope with that than a private system is. The waste alone as money goes to Washington then trickles back out again would create a system that simply isn't viable. Our current system isn't viable either but universal health care would be heading in the wrong direction.

The VA spent $650,000 for artwork at a rehabilitation center for the blind. They spent $21,000 on a Christmas tree. When the backlog of veterans became a major story the VA hired over 39,000 people. Less than 3,550 were medical officers. The new jobs did very little to take care of the backlog.

What private company is going to waste funds like that?
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 04 10:10:43
A private company wastes funds like that on a single golden parachute.

I just posted the dramatic increase in people being treated by the VA.

They did that with far less than 39000 full-time positions? Amazing.

The biggest contributor to overwhelming systems is underfunding.

Perhaps reduce federal debt accumulation before reducing taxes? You are currently 1 000 000 000 000 shy per year.

Your idea equals EU+Nato basically. Nato indicating you do not actually need federal defence either. It could be based on State contributions under a Federal unberella.
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 04 10:11:51
Your constution being pretty clear on not really encompassing standing federal forces.
kargen
Member
Thu Apr 04 14:58:55
The nine million is how many people are enrolled not how many are using the services. President Obama was lauded for decreasing the wait time by 109 days. Waiting times can still be longer than one year before getting some treatments. Treatment is often insufficient or incomplete. President Trump signed the VA Mission Act giving veterans more access to private care.

http://www...-dc-report-veterans/index.html

A report on the hospital in DC. Sad thing is other hospitals had worse problems. Overall the problems are not near as bad as they were in 2014 but still bad.

The waste is ridiculous but kind of indicative of most federal agencies.
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 04 16:26:04
Kargen
The numbers were for comparative purposes. 9 million either recieve treatment or benefits from the VA (about 2/3rds recieve treatment).

When thinking of rediculous waste, then you should always compare it to the completely unessesary cost of insurers and of course ludicrous private industry renumerations to CEOs and other upper level folk.

Congress does audit the federal government. What findings are you referring to?

My issue is of course you thinking this a matter of principle, but mixing in pragmatic reasons that simply do not hold water when compared to alternatives.

Also, what issues would you have with relegating the military to states who in turn could provide forces to a Federal command?

The DoD is notorious for wasting money.
kargen
Member
Thu Apr 04 18:08:48
" ludicrous private industry renumerations to CEOs and other upper level folk."

I'm not giving them a free pass some of the compensation packages seem outlandish. As a system overall there is much more waste in government programs through several layers.

Congress pretends to audit the federal government. Funds turn up missing, misspent, misappropriated or just plain embezzled when someone does bother to actually look and the response more often that not is hey you should watch yourself better. The government agencies like to blame their failure for accurate record keeping on antiquated systems.

You must have missed all the times I have said in these forums I think every government agency and program should undergo a full audit every two years. Any funds that can not be accounted will cause their budget to be lowered by that amount. I include the DoD in that, you are correct there is a ton of waste in that department. They are one of the ones that claim their computers and network do not allow them to track all expenditures.

With government healthcare the money goes to Washington via the IRS. Part of it is lost there through bureaucracy. Eventually congress gets their hands on the money and doles it out. It then has to go through a few levels of bureaucracy in Washington before being sent along it's way. Each state has a federal branch that is going to again take a chunk. You get another layer below the state and eventually a bit of the original amount ends up at the hospitals. Waste on top of waste.

Sure corporations have their own level of bureaucracy but not near the level the government has. Watch the movie Brazil to get an exaggerated (but only slightly) idea of government bureaucracy.

And again I point you to the problems France is having with their health care system. Five years ago the left in the United States pointed to France as the model to follow. We don't hear than any longer.
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 04 22:37:52
Kargen
You sort of are giving the alternative a free pass. Profit is another huge waste when compared socialized medicine.

The huge counterbalance in a single payer system is of course the leverage such an entity gains in market competition. It does not mean that all medical services have to be provided by public hospitals, it simply means that all hospitals have to accept what the single payer is willing to pay if it want access to a huge volume of business (privat and insurance based health care will always be a thing to supplement public services).

Funds also turn up missing, misspent, misappropiated or just plain embezzled in the private sector too.

There is a reason your health care is the most expensive in the world after all, and that reason has nothing to do with quality of service (Norway does send patients to the US, but that is not for cutting edge service, it is because due to your size, you have medical competence in tiny illnesses that occur seldomly, and is not worth building up capacity for a handful of cases from a 5.5 million population).

The audit system means that you can quantify irregularities and be more specific if you like. I would be able to match you dollar for dollar of course by looking at the private health care sector.

Layers upon layers of private corporations add their own layers of bureacracy to medical services.

Again, France's issues are related to underfunding. Having 50% of US costs is a bit on the low side.
kargen
Member
Fri Apr 05 03:47:59
Our basic difference is you see the government as providing a solution to a problem.

I see the government as most of the time being the problem.

You site big corporations as being wasteful. In the US not much competes with the government when it comes to size and waste.
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