Utopia Talk - Politics - Dems see secert road

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Dems see secert road

superdude
Member Fri Apr 19 01:23:38
ohhh this is going to be good.

http://www...ress-to-impeach-the-president/

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Apr 19 01:33:04
"Mueller’s report Thursday described several actions by President Donald Trump which his critics could interpret as attempts to interfere with the investigation."

...or anyone with a brain

"The incidents did not amount to enough evidence to prosecute"

nope... Mueller notes the 'can't indict a sitting president' guidelines and doesn't make the call (although laying out a 200-page case for it...)

-----------

i hope they do impeach him, if any president ever deserved it, it's Trump... obviously the spineless R's won't go along but at least it should be part of his corrupt disgraceful history

Dukhat
Member Fri Apr 19 01:48:07
It's a waste of political capital. If you focus on his shitty policies and behavior, you can get Americans opposing him 60-40. If you focus on impeachment, people fall back to their partisan biases and Trump goes up to 45-46% support with leaners. He can win re-election with that kind of support.

And Trump will never ever get impeached with a Republican senate. They are too beholden to his base to win primaries.

Anyways, if he loses re-election; he's probably going to jail. The Southern District of New York will nail him hard on his many financial frauds.

And if he wins re-election, he'll be impeached around the 3rd year. Democrats will win like 10 seats in 2022 given the map with Trump in the White House.

Rugian
Member Fri Apr 19 09:17:16
Ah, a classic Dukhat political prediction. Warms my heart to see it.

Okay, Dukhat's on record for saying that Republicans will lose fully half of their up-for-grabs seats in 2022. ROFL

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Apr 19 11:18:24
"If you focus on his shitty policies and behavior, you can get Americans opposing him 60-40"

seemingly nothing affects his popularity

they should impeach on principle, if Clinton has an impeachment attached to him, Trump certainly deserves it too... plus get R's on record saying Trump's behavior is fine

he's only going to continue doing unacceptable things so it's a gamble for any R's who still have any principles left

kargen
Member Fri Apr 19 15:30:50
“The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the president’s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law.”

That is the part that has liberals slobbering all over themselves. If you read the entire section and put it in context you realize he is commenting on checks and balances in the three branches of government. He says congress could not that they should. He also says congress can't impede President Trumps right to fulfill his duties as president in their efforts to show obstruction.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Apr 19 16:08:54
if Mueller didn't think there was an obstruction case he would've said so, it was his job to make the call on crimes

there's no way he just meant for the AG to decide, especially one who got the job by writing a memo saying he believed there was no obstruction

Forwyn
Member Fri Apr 19 16:14:31
"it was his job to make the call on crimes"

And he...didn't

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Apr 19 16:21:23
and he said why ('following the no indictment of a president') thus suggesting he would have

ruling no case for obstruction would've been fine, & he didn't do it

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Apr 19 16:40:43
actually i'll amend that statement, Mueller starts out Vol 2 noting the OLC opinion of not indicting so states they wouldn't make the call

and on page 2:
"
Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.
"

so... Mueller is not ruling it out & saying they needed more info (presumably talking to the idiot liar who refused to answer questions)... does anyone think the idiot liar's testimony would've been beneficial to him? even his lawyers didn't

so i'd say, w/o the OLC restrictions, Mueller would've subpoenaed Trump & forced him to talk & then charged him w/ guaranteed perjury + obstruction

there's certainly no way to spin it that Mueller did not find obstruction

kargen
Member Fri Apr 19 17:57:59
The liberals are thinking they will find something Mueller did not?

How fucking arrogant is that.

And there is no need to spin it. Clearly did not commit obstruction is one of those can't prove a negative things. Just like you still can't prove alien lizard people do not walk among us.

You need to remember the investigation was to gather information and find if there was a reason to pursue legal actions against the president or others. In the case of the president they found there was not sufficient evidence to pursue a criminal case. One big reason the report doesn't exonerate him is because that was never the goal. That would have been the next step if there had been enough evidence to take the case farther.

But let the liberals do their thing. All they will accomplish is losing seats in both the house and the senate. Just like the Republicans did when they wouldn't let go of President Clinton.

At least in the case of President Clinton he actually committed a crime.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Apr 19 18:34:20
"The liberals are thinking they will find something Mueller did not? "

no need

Dukhat
Member Fri Apr 19 22:35:24
Kargen proves he is illiterate. Literally every lawyer that read the document thinks it lays out a very convincing case for obstruction.

Of course, Barr already did his damage and followed the Trump strategy of doing so.

First you start off with a big lie and hide the facts.

After a month let out the truth. Your base still believes you because Fox and the rest will have repeated it infinitely.

And the truth is often murkier and more granular and harder to condense so it doesn't make for as good a soundbite.

And the lie gets to live on in the minds of Republicans.

obaminated
Member Fri Apr 19 23:01:04
" Literally every lawyer that read the document thinks it lays out a very convincing case for obstruction. "

not true.

Trump did nothing wrong, he never colluded with russia, he never obstructed anything and he didn't fuck your wife! So let the president be president for a few months without the left attack everything he says.

Dukhat
Member Sat Apr 20 00:07:47
Mexican Tardnado still here retarding it up. There are barely anybody but the same cuckservatives posting. Probably much better things to do. As for me, I'm stuck in Japan right now as they fix my boat. Then I'm back off to ignoring you guys.

Dukhat
Member Sat Apr 20 00:18:13
In other words, I don't read you or anything the other retards say. I can go to Breitbart if I want my daily dose of stupid.

kargen
Member Sat Apr 20 04:19:07
"no need"

You are correct. Liberals will continue to just pull shit out their asses and claim it to be fact.

and dukcap you are just a fucking idiot. The sooner you get back in your boat and away from anything with half a brain cell the better. No reason to risk your stupidity is contagious.

obaminated
Member Sat Apr 20 13:26:04
Hahahahha cuckhat is a legit fob.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sat Apr 20 18:58:41
seems clear to me Mueller would've charged obstruction... just reading the Manafort section where Trump kept praising Manafort & saying he was being treated unfairly & contrasting him w/ the rat Cohen, the pardon talk, etc

Mueller checks off all the requirements for obstruction... obstruction by being an attempt to affect Manafort's testimony & cooperation, w/ corrupt intent & nexus to criminal proceeding (as is all pretty clear without Mueller analysis or need of non-public info)

--------

this guy made a chart of his view of Mueller's analysis of each of the obstruction incidents
(if it's green in all 3 boxes, that meets all requirements of obstruction law)
http://twitter.com/qjurecic/status/1119414481434624000

the only one Mueller clears Trump on is his efforts to mislead the public about Don Jr's meeting in Trump Tower as it was only directed at lying to the press/public not to obstruct the investigation...

although everyone, including Fox News, should have a problem even w/ that behavior

but people like obaminated are being pissed on by the propaganda lie machine & he's lapping it up

obaminated
Member Sat Apr 20 21:10:07
"seems clear to me Mueller would've charged obstruction... "

except he didn't

whats it like living in pretend world, tw?

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sat Apr 20 21:18:26
and he explained on page 1 of Vol 2 that he would never charge

trump could've been having witnesses killed

whats it like knowing no factual information?

Dukhat
Member Sat Apr 20 21:32:02
When trump loses, every cuckservative will talk about how much he sucked even though they sucked his dick and licked his anus every day. Same as with Dubya.

And we get to repeat the process again with the next dumbass the Republican party fields.

obaminated
Member Sat Apr 20 21:35:58
yeah, he would never charge because there was no obstruction. this is hilarious.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sat Apr 20 21:48:44
are the shills on Fox News even noting Mueller specifically states because of the policy of 'no indicting a sitting president' he would NOT ever make such a recommendation?

there WAS obstruction, it's the entire purpose of volume 2... Mueller describes each incident and then analyzes how it fits the obstruction statute elements (& several meet all criteria)

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sat Apr 20 21:52:22
the nice thing about the people parroting "there was no obstruction" is you instantly know they're an idiot

Forwyn
Member Sat Apr 20 22:01:30
Obstructing a sham investigation is like resisting an illegal arrest. You might make the charge stick, but you're still a dickhole.

obaminated
Member Sat Apr 20 22:05:42
"you obstructed an investigation into a non crime!!!!"

fucking tw man

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sun Apr 21 00:08:07
he obstructed an investigation that found many crimes (plus he wouldn't have known if anyone on his campaign was guilty as Giuliani eventually acknowledged)

vol2 p91
"
The President directed that Sessions should give a speech publicly announcing:

'
I know that I recused myself from certain things having to do with specific areas. But our
POTUS ... is being treated very unfairly. He shouldn't have a Special Prosecutor/Counsel
b/c he hasn't done anything wrong. I was on the campaign w/ him for nine months, there
were no Russians involved with him. I know it for a fact b/c I was there. He didn't do
anything wrong except he ran the greatest campaign in American history.

Now a group of people want to subvert the Constitution of the United States. I am going
to meet with the Special Prosecutor to explain this is very unfair and let the Special
Prosecutor move forward with investigating election meddling for future elections so that
nothing can happen in future elections.
'
"

what a mentally ill idiot child... can't even help himself from sliding 'greatest campaign in history' into his criminal obstructing

obaminated
Member Sun Apr 21 00:11:30
hey, why didnt mueller actually pursue obstruction?

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sun Apr 21 00:20:47
it has been said repeatedly here and on real news, if you haven't figured it out yet, one more attempt likely won't help

Borthas
Member Sun Apr 21 03:39:55
At this point, the only honorable thing to do would be for the President to resign.

swordtail
Anarchist Prime Sun Apr 21 07:57:31
Special Counsel Mueller--Disingenuous and Dishonest by Larry C Johnson

http://tur...t-by-larry-c-johnson.html#more

show deleted posts

superdude Member	Fri Apr 19 01:23:38 ohhh this is going to be good. http://www...ress-to-impeach-the-president/
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 01:33:04 "Mueller’s report Thursday described several actions by President Donald Trump which his critics could interpret as attempts to interfere with the investigation." ...or anyone with a brain "The incidents did not amount to enough evidence to prosecute" nope... Mueller notes the 'can't indict a sitting president' guidelines and doesn't make the call (although laying out a 200-page case for it...) ----------- i hope they do impeach him, if any president ever deserved it, it's Trump... obviously the spineless R's won't go along but at least it should be part of his corrupt disgraceful history
Dukhat Member	Fri Apr 19 01:48:07 It's a waste of political capital. If you focus on his shitty policies and behavior, you can get Americans opposing him 60-40. If you focus on impeachment, people fall back to their partisan biases and Trump goes up to 45-46% support with leaners. He can win re-election with that kind of support. And Trump will never ever get impeached with a Republican senate. They are too beholden to his base to win primaries. Anyways, if he loses re-election; he's probably going to jail. The Southern District of New York will nail him hard on his many financial frauds. And if he wins re-election, he'll be impeached around the 3rd year. Democrats will win like 10 seats in 2022 given the map with Trump in the White House.
Rugian Member	Fri Apr 19 09:17:16 Ah, a classic Dukhat political prediction. Warms my heart to see it. Okay, Dukhat's on record for saying that Republicans will lose fully half of their up-for-grabs seats in 2022. ROFL
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 11:18:24 "If you focus on his shitty policies and behavior, you can get Americans opposing him 60-40" seemingly nothing affects his popularity they should impeach on principle, if Clinton has an impeachment attached to him, Trump certainly deserves it too... plus get R's on record saying Trump's behavior is fine he's only going to continue doing unacceptable things so it's a gamble for any R's who still have any principles left
kargen Member	Fri Apr 19 15:30:50 “The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the president’s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law.” That is the part that has liberals slobbering all over themselves. If you read the entire section and put it in context you realize he is commenting on checks and balances in the three branches of government. He says congress could not that they should. He also says congress can't impede President Trumps right to fulfill his duties as president in their efforts to show obstruction.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 16:08:54 if Mueller didn't think there was an obstruction case he would've said so, it was his job to make the call on crimes there's no way he just meant for the AG to decide, especially one who got the job by writing a memo saying he believed there was no obstruction
Forwyn Member	Fri Apr 19 16:14:31 "it was his job to make the call on crimes" And he...didn't
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 16:21:23 and he said why ('following the no indictment of a president') thus suggesting he would have ruling no case for obstruction would've been fine, & he didn't do it
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 16:40:43 actually i'll amend that statement, Mueller starts out Vol 2 noting the OLC opinion of not indicting so states they wouldn't make the call and on page 2: " Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him. " so... Mueller is not ruling it out & saying they needed more info (presumably talking to the idiot liar who refused to answer questions)... does anyone think the idiot liar's testimony would've been beneficial to him? even his lawyers didn't so i'd say, w/o the OLC restrictions, Mueller would've subpoenaed Trump & forced him to talk & then charged him w/ guaranteed perjury + obstruction there's certainly no way to spin it that Mueller did not find obstruction
kargen Member	Fri Apr 19 17:57:59 The liberals are thinking they will find something Mueller did not? How fucking arrogant is that. And there is no need to spin it. Clearly did not commit obstruction is one of those can't prove a negative things. Just like you still can't prove alien lizard people do not walk among us. You need to remember the investigation was to gather information and find if there was a reason to pursue legal actions against the president or others. In the case of the president they found there was not sufficient evidence to pursue a criminal case. One big reason the report doesn't exonerate him is because that was never the goal. That would have been the next step if there had been enough evidence to take the case farther. But let the liberals do their thing. All they will accomplish is losing seats in both the house and the senate. Just like the Republicans did when they wouldn't let go of President Clinton. At least in the case of President Clinton he actually committed a crime.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 18:34:20 "The liberals are thinking they will find something Mueller did not? " no need
Dukhat Member	Fri Apr 19 22:35:24 Kargen proves he is illiterate. Literally every lawyer that read the document thinks it lays out a very convincing case for obstruction. Of course, Barr already did his damage and followed the Trump strategy of doing so. First you start off with a big lie and hide the facts. After a month let out the truth. Your base still believes you because Fox and the rest will have repeated it infinitely. And the truth is often murkier and more granular and harder to condense so it doesn't make for as good a soundbite. And the lie gets to live on in the minds of Republicans.
obaminated Member	Fri Apr 19 23:01:04 " Literally every lawyer that read the document thinks it lays out a very convincing case for obstruction. " not true. Trump did nothing wrong, he never colluded with russia, he never obstructed anything and he didn't fuck your wife! So let the president be president for a few months without the left attack everything he says.
Dukhat Member	Sat Apr 20 00:07:47 Mexican Tardnado still here retarding it up. There are barely anybody but the same cuckservatives posting. Probably much better things to do. As for me, I'm stuck in Japan right now as they fix my boat. Then I'm back off to ignoring you guys.
Dukhat Member	Sat Apr 20 00:18:13 In other words, I don't read you or anything the other retards say. I can go to Breitbart if I want my daily dose of stupid.
kargen Member	Sat Apr 20 04:19:07 "no need" You are correct. Liberals will continue to just pull shit out their asses and claim it to be fact. and dukcap you are just a fucking idiot. The sooner you get back in your boat and away from anything with half a brain cell the better. No reason to risk your stupidity is contagious.
obaminated Member	Sat Apr 20 13:26:04 Hahahahha cuckhat is a legit fob.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 18:58:41 seems clear to me Mueller would've charged obstruction... just reading the Manafort section where Trump kept praising Manafort & saying he was being treated unfairly & contrasting him w/ the rat Cohen, the pardon talk, etc Mueller checks off all the requirements for obstruction... obstruction by being an attempt to affect Manafort's testimony & cooperation, w/ corrupt intent & nexus to criminal proceeding (as is all pretty clear without Mueller analysis or need of non-public info) -------- this guy made a chart of his view of Mueller's analysis of each of the obstruction incidents (if it's green in all 3 boxes, that meets all requirements of obstruction law) http://twitter.com/qjurecic/status/1119414481434624000 the only one Mueller clears Trump on is his efforts to mislead the public about Don Jr's meeting in Trump Tower as it was only directed at lying to the press/public not to obstruct the investigation... although everyone, including Fox News, should have a problem even w/ that behavior but people like obaminated are being pissed on by the propaganda lie machine & he's lapping it up
obaminated Member	Sat Apr 20 21:10:07 "seems clear to me Mueller would've charged obstruction... " except he didn't whats it like living in pretend world, tw?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 21:18:26 and he explained on page 1 of Vol 2 that he would never charge trump could've been having witnesses killed whats it like knowing no factual information?
Dukhat Member	Sat Apr 20 21:32:02 When trump loses, every cuckservative will talk about how much he sucked even though they sucked his dick and licked his anus every day. Same as with Dubya. And we get to repeat the process again with the next dumbass the Republican party fields.
obaminated Member	Sat Apr 20 21:35:58 yeah, he would never charge because there was no obstruction. this is hilarious.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 21:48:44 are the shills on Fox News even noting Mueller specifically states because of the policy of 'no indicting a sitting president' he would NOT ever make such a recommendation? there WAS obstruction, it's the entire purpose of volume 2... Mueller describes each incident and then analyzes how it fits the obstruction statute elements (& several meet all criteria)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 21:52:22 the nice thing about the people parroting "there was no obstruction" is you instantly know they're an idiot
Forwyn Member	Sat Apr 20 22:01:30 Obstructing a sham investigation is like resisting an illegal arrest. You might make the charge stick, but you're still a dickhole.
obaminated Member	Sat Apr 20 22:05:42 "you obstructed an investigation into a non crime!!!!" fucking tw man
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 00:08:07 he obstructed an investigation that found many crimes (plus he wouldn't have known if anyone on his campaign was guilty as Giuliani eventually acknowledged) vol2 p91 " The President directed that Sessions should give a speech publicly announcing: ' I know that I recused myself from certain things having to do with specific areas. But our POTUS ... is being treated very unfairly. He shouldn't have a Special Prosecutor/Counsel b/c he hasn't done anything wrong. I was on the campaign w/ him for nine months, there were no Russians involved with him. I know it for a fact b/c I was there. He didn't do anything wrong except he ran the greatest campaign in American history. Now a group of people want to subvert the Constitution of the United States. I am going to meet with the Special Prosecutor to explain this is very unfair and let the Special Prosecutor move forward with investigating election meddling for future elections so that nothing can happen in future elections. ' " what a mentally ill idiot child... can't even help himself from sliding 'greatest campaign in history' into his criminal obstructing
obaminated Member	Sun Apr 21 00:11:30 hey, why didnt mueller actually pursue obstruction?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 00:20:47 it has been said repeatedly here and on real news, if you haven't figured it out yet, one more attempt likely won't help
Borthas Member	Sun Apr 21 03:39:55 At this point, the only honorable thing to do would be for the President to resign.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sun Apr 21 07:57:31 Special Counsel Mueller--Disingenuous and Dishonest by Larry C Johnson http://tur...t-by-larry-c-johnson.html#more
	show deleted posts

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