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Utopia Talk / Politics / Game of Thrones: Winter is here
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Apr 21 12:15:11
The battle at Winterfell is approaching. Jaime is confronted with the consequences of the past. A tense interaction between Sansa and Daenerys follows.

Basically 58 mins of lamp shading and minor characters dying.

Here is some leaked footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2ppLtHbag4

Euron fucks the Queen and makes Robb Stark look like an asshole in regards to treating POWs. While Aegon and Danny were wasting CGI budget for a small incest and Peeping Drogon payoff. Ned Umber could've used those dragons but fuck him.
Rugian
Member
Sun Apr 21 12:20:22
"While Aegon and Danny were wasting CGI budget for a small incest and Peeping Drogon payoff."

So that's what happened to the Golden Company's elephants.
Paramount
Member
Sun Apr 21 12:29:20
”minor characters dying”

Arya and Theon? Or are they going to play a major role later in the battle against the Night King?
Paramount
Member
Sun Apr 21 13:01:43
*Yara
Rugian
Member
Sun Apr 21 13:04:55
If I had to guess, Yara/the Iron Islands are just going to disappear from the story altogether. Theon is fucked for sure though.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun Apr 21 13:10:48
Sansa as the smartest person out there line is contrived, because she doesnt look the part. That would be one minor annoyance for me, I rewatched the first episode. They should have picked arya or bran, if picking a stark was the goal.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun Apr 21 13:12:32
Also, the actor who plays bran looks as creepy as any grown up child actor since the Home Alone kid
obaminated
Member
Sun Apr 21 15:04:11
Yah. Unless they have to fall back to the iron islands. I dont think we will see yara again
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Apr 21 18:39:26
Minor characters that'll probably die from lack of story arc and they don't represent anything Pod, Brienne, Gendry, , Jorah, and Hound (seriously who is he with).
obaminated
Member
Sun Apr 21 21:05:04
I dunno if gendry will die, I think keeping Robert's child alive through the series will be a worth while narrative to do. Arya may die though. Considering how much time was spent on everyone having their little moment, I think a lot of people are gonna die in the next episode.
Rugian
Member
Sun Apr 21 21:16:45
Well, we got to see Arya Stark sideboob.


Any other episode impressions?
Forwyn
Member
Sun Apr 21 21:21:36
Gendry's gotta live to rule Storm's End as Warden of the South.
hood
Member
Sun Apr 21 21:55:30
predictions:

-Winterfell falls, but many named characters survive to flee south. Jaime does not make it.
-despite the number of people who want to kill Cersei, Arya does so using Jaime's face to get close
-a defense is attempted at the river, especially with the Frey's gone, but fails.
-eventually white walkers are defeated outside the red keep. Dany is left with 1 dragon.
-Jonaegon (pronounced Joh-nae-gon) and Dany split the kingdom with Dany taking the Iron Throne and Jon rebuilding Winterfell.
-Benjen saves Bran during the battle of Winterfell (wall fell, magic keeping him north no longer holding him hostage).
-Euron courts Sansa after Cersei is killed, joining his forces with the surviving humans. He made a pass at Dany, but she's still wounded from Jonaegon being related to her and soundly dismisses him.
obaminated
Member
Sun Apr 21 22:49:12
Benjin died last season when he fought against the wights to buy Jon time to escape on horseback.

I dunno if Winterfell falls in the next episode. I wouldn't be surprised if the next episode ends in victory with the threat of the White Walkers effectively being over. This leaves 3 episodes left over for Dany to go after Cersie and to develop Jon's lackluster support of going to war and causing good people to die all because Dany wants a seat.

Could be we see 3 factions develop, Cersie and her army of mercs plus Euron, Dany and her army of unsullied and dothraki, and Jon and his army in the north plus useful info network via Bran.
hood
Member
Mon Apr 22 01:05:07
"Benjin died last season when he fought against the wights to buy Jon time to escape on horseback."

What is dead may never die!
Paramount
Member
Mon Apr 22 14:50:44
Arya is badass. I loved the scene when she was throwing daggers. I love that little girl.

We got to see her tits from the side and half of her ass when she undressed and jumped on the blacksmith boy and kinda raped him. I never thought that would happen. That scene doesn’t really suit Arya’s character. But what do I know.

Anyhoo... I think I can see where this is going. No one can defeat death. They are going to be overrun and killed.

Some may run south, but they can’t hide. Death with follow them and there will be another battle in the south.

Game of Thrones is the kind of tale that won’t have a happy a la hollywood. The army of dead will kill all.

The Night King will sit on the throne and he will take Cersei as his Queen after the dead version of Jamie or Tyrion has killed her. Cersei may know that this is her fate and therefore she let go of Jamie and chose to remain at King’s Landing and wait for it. She has basically accepted that she will be an undead Queen because it will allow her to rule the seven kingdoms forever, and that is basically all she wants.

I think this is what the fortune teller saw at the end of the fortune telling session when she started laughing.

The fortune teller said Cersei will have 3 kids. So she will never give birth to the fourth child she has in her womb now. So she is definitevly going to die.


So what’s up with everyone wearing black armor/clothings? Even Sansa and Jamie is dressed in all black. Cersei was wearing all black too.
Paramount
Member
Mon Apr 22 14:53:00
*Game of Thrones is the kind of tale that won’t have a happy a la hollywood ENDING.
yankeessuck123
Member
Mon Apr 22 16:48:36
This was the episode of farewells. Tying up the loose connections. Last time we'll see lots of those people together.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 22 17:07:54
i don't think the dead will win, but could end w/ the struggles just continuing w/ the next generation/younger people
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 22 17:31:49
"but could end w/ the struggles just continuing w/ the next generation/younger people "

Game of Thrones: The Dragon Awakens
hood
Member
Mon Apr 22 17:57:41
Followed by The Last Targaryen?
Forwyn
Member
Mon Apr 22 17:59:23
Would be the ultimate letdown for the eight season threat we've been warning about to die off in one grand battle. I can see how they're setting the stage, with a giant contrived all-in of him diving for the killshot on Bran, but the dude is a necromancer with a dragon, he can always fly off and rebuild his forces.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Apr 22 18:07:23
On the other hand, without the dragon, I'm not really seeing what makes the 100k wight army more deadly than a 100k wilding army. There haven't been any mid-battle raisings yet, so the NK has to win to add to his numbers.

Sounds like 5k heavy cav rek the WWs
obaminated
Member
Tue Apr 23 00:52:18
well, keep in mind they are an army of 28 days later style zombies who can use weapons... plus giants... honestly a pitched battle seems like a really good way to get quickly overwhelmed by 100k beserkers with zero fear for their personal well being. plus giants.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Apr 23 01:44:47
Yeah, if you're standing still you're getting fucked. Gotta pincer them Stannis the Mannis style
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Apr 23 02:38:02
Yeah, I don't think that Winterfell outlasts this attack. To win, they needed Cersei to stop playing for the Iron Throne, but she didn't so the living armies will still be divided. Plus, typically any plan that's made will be broken; they think that they'll draw the Night King to the tree where they can kill him before he kills Bran, but something will have to go wrong with that plan. I think Bran still needs to meet the Night King (to discover the Night King's secret histories), though, so maybe that meet part will at least happen.

There were a *lot* of white walker chiefs/lieutenants. Winterfell peeps will probably start targeting them to wipe out each WW's wights, but even with that strategy, it's still a lot of white walkers to kill. D:

I mention it in the other thread ( http://www...dthread?id=movies&thread=63471 ), but it looks like Danny may try to sabotage Jon during the battle so that her claim goes unopposed... being at odds with each other wasn't a good way to begin a battle ;)

Lots of cool potential for this battle. Night King flying around burning strong points, Danny (and Jon too?) flying around doing the same, possibly more ice spears thrown, Dothraki, Unsullied, mass death, a side plan to direct the NK to Bran, favored heroes resurrected as wights, expectations crushed, and 90 minutes of carnage ;p

..
"a defense is attempted at the river, especially with the Frey's gone, but fails."

Riverrun may be too far out of the way. I wondered if Moat Cailin would be a better spot for a defense, but apparently its Northern side isn't defensible (it was made to defend against southern attacks, not northern attacks). Seems like the Night King would just take the King's Road directly to King's Landing; considering that this is total war, if Winterfell falls, all survivors would flee directly to King's Landing and try to defend from there. That sets up for the scenario where a fractured army tries to get into the King's Landing walls, Cersei denies them and wants them left outside, then Jaime (or a disguised Arya) has to kill Cersei and let everyone in for a final defense. This does make Arya seem safe in the Winterfell battle, but that'd be a good misdirect if all of her skills were lost instead ;)
Paramount
Member
Tue Apr 23 04:21:37
"they think that they'll draw the Night King to the tree where they can kill him before he kills Bran, but something will have to go wrong with that plan."


I don't think Bran will get killed there. Theon will sacrifice himself to save Bran, and Theon will die in the arms of Jon Snow and then Jon somehow gets Bran to mount the dragon and they all fly away. The Night King will be wounded (by Jon) in this struggle and he will be forced to retreat, but only for short time, allowing Jon and Bran to mount the dragon and escape.

I'm also thinking that maybe Arya will get killed now that she has gotten laid.

Jamie will die and will be ressurected as an undead. He will then head to Kings Landing and strangle Cersei and then the Night King will wed her.
obaminated
Member
Tue Apr 23 04:30:41
jaime isnt going to die. he needs to face cersie as himself. but brienne is totes dead. the next episode will suck. we will be losing a lot of a characters we have spent years knowing and watching grow.

the writer of this episode, in his interview for it, broke up a bit about how it was the last time we would see these people.

it is interesting. i don't think we have seen this sort of thing before, as audiences. we have spent a decade watching these characters develop and become who they were always meant to be, and then for them to be gone forever, it'll be hollow.

on a continuation note, i think this will be an issue for marvel moving forward. we have spent a lot of time with these characters and for them to die, it'll not be fun to see them in "happier" times.

i don't want to see brienne being a noble warrior in seasons 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 if i know she dies horribly and jaime ends up having to kill her after giving her the one thing she has been striving for the entire time.

i am genuinely curious how audiences react to this sort of story unfolding.
Paramount
Member
Tue Apr 23 04:48:52
"the writer of this episode, in his interview for it, broke up a bit about how it was the last time we would see these people"


The show is ending. Even if a particular character won't die we won't see them anymore, unless they make a Game of Thrones 2.

We have watched Seinfeldt for many years, watching them characters grow etc. We won't see them either anymore. Everything has an end.



"i don't want to see brienne being a noble warrior in seasons 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 if i know she dies horribly"


Well, don't watch it then.
hood
Member
Tue Apr 23 07:30:55
Mt, plenty of people watched the walking dead. Characters died regularly. They've continued to watch game of thrones despite the running theme that favored characters will die. This might be more dramatic with more characters dying at once, but how many people actually care about Gendry? Or Jora? Or any of the Lord of Light marauders? Or Tormund? We saw Jonaegon die for a season ending and we still watched.

Unless we see all of the leadership in the North wiped out in this attack, I think people will be fine. Expectations have been set that people will not survive.
Paramount
Member
Tue Apr 23 07:37:55
I cared about Ned Stark and he died in season 1, but I continued to watch all the seasons after that. I even continued to watch after all the Starks got butchered at the wedding.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Apr 23 15:27:26
“on a continuation note, i think this will be an issue for marvel moving forward. we have spent a lot of time with these characters and for them to die, it'll not be fun to see them in "happier" times”

Marvel’s Avengers universe has been garbage for me for a long time specifically because they are so unwilling to kill anyone. I’ve heard that lots of heroes died in “Infinity Wars”, but how many will be brought back? Kill them. People die.

In GoT, their stories are more meaningful *because* they could die; important characters died all around them and they lived, but their tickets can be punched just the same. (“On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”) I don’t want Brienne to die, but I think it’s good for the story if she does. Same with Jon and Tormund. They’re important people, but this is full scale war. Aside from the people hidden in the crypts, anyone could die at any point. That’s good writing. That’s not Marvel.
Paramount
Member
Tue Apr 23 15:58:06
Why is the crypt so safe, btw? Everyone was talking about that the crypt is the safest place. How is it safe? I wouldn’t want to be trapped in a crypt if a seven dozen of undeads comes down there.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Apr 23 16:12:02
Unless they've arbitrarily changed the layout of Winterfell, the crypt is like right inside the main door. Seems like a pretty bad idea actually, they should be in the central keep larders, put a few more doors between them and the wights.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Apr 23 16:12:14
Also no potential for dead Stark massacres
hood
Member
Tue Apr 23 16:46:45
The crypt is narrow, there's only 1 way in, makes it easy to defend. Isn't the crypt where the secret passage that Bran used to escape Theon's occupation is located? It's unlikely the white walkers know where the exit leads. With reinforced doors (Halls of dead Kings are usually well guarded), the crypt is pretty safe.

Anyone can just smash through a random wall in the keep and surround those hiding within the wintefell castle.
Seb
Member
Tue Apr 23 17:26:54
Clearly Something is going to go down in the crypt. Everyone kept saying "Foreshadowing the crypt is very safe foreshadowing" very loudly and repeatedly.

I reckon Aria and Gendry survive. It's the echo of the Ed stark/ Robert boratheon alliance against Targaryean. They'll end up fighting against Danaerys.

History repeats etc.

Jon is dead already and resurrected on borrowed time, so can't see him surviving the war with the night king.

My guess for the series is it ends with the white walkers defeated, Danaerys dead, Cercie dead, and a regression back to the houses fighting and oppressing the poor.


Rugian
Member
Tue Apr 23 18:04:41
"and a regression back to the houses fighting and oppressing the poor."

But the Faith Militant are still the worst, cuz fuck religion and gay-bashers /s
Rugian
Member
Tue Apr 23 18:11:13
But seriously though, whatever else happens I hope it takes way more than one episode to defeat the Undead. This is seven seasons' worth of build-up here; the Great War needs to be drawn out as long as possible.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Apr 23 18:26:24
Yeah, this will be the worst case of blue balls in the history of blue balls, maybe ever, if we have four tertiary characters die and the NK is beaten.
hood
Member
Tue Apr 23 19:06:41
The only way the WW losing at Winterfell would be acceptable is if it's a multiple-episode fight that sees Cersei inter the fray in some way.

Seems unreasonable. So either Winterfell falls, or GRRM can go fuck himself.
Rugian
Member
Tue Apr 23 19:21:31
GRRM can already go fuck himself for his unforgivable laziness

I'd say the war with the WWs needs to go all four remaining episodes to make it "worth" it...but I don't know how you balance that with the with the Cersei and Dany-Jon conflicts.

Really, the bigger problem is with the overall pacing. The transition in the overall story from the various wars between the living to the one war between the living and the dead should have occurred way earlier than now, when we're already a good 91.8% of the way throughout the entire series. But hopefully D&D pull off something grand in the time that's left.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Tue Apr 23 19:31:37
I really thought this last episode would have benefited from more scenes with Gay Worm and Miscegenationei.
obaminated
Member
Tue Apr 23 21:04:34
"Why is the crypt so safe, btw? "

i bet itll be revealed that the dead cant enter the crypts cause they have similar protection spells that the three eyed raven cave had, until bran got marked by the night king and ruined that spell (which is why bran is the only stark who hasnt gone into the crypts since returning to winterfell).
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 24 11:23:57
i would say they consider the crypts safer simply as it's underground


if Arya's pregnant her baby is heir to the throne (Baratheon line)... maybe her baby will fight Cersei's baby in the Battle of the Babies

or a spin-off babies series like those kids' shows that had baby spin-offs
obaminated
Member
Wed Apr 24 11:57:29
If arya is pregnant it is a bastard of a bastard, it is heir to nothing.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Apr 24 13:23:49
Jonaegon will do away with the denomination of bastard, Arya's offspring will be heir to Storm's End!
Pillz
Member
Thu Apr 25 06:00:58
Forgetting that Robert's Other bastards were killed
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Apr 25 23:49:14
"Why is the crypt so safe, btw?"

I only think the crypt is as safe as any last stand place, and since I'm on "Team 'Winterfell Will Fall'", that just means that those in the crypt will be last or late to die during the battle — maybe they'll have a chance when it comes time to run south.

..
"'and a regression back to the houses fighting and oppressing the poor.'

But the Faith Militant are still the worst, cuz fuck religion and gay-bashers /s"

I've said as much before, but the Faith Militant were a regression themselves; they would have set the kingdoms back even further than house squabbles because they would have added a "noble lie" (religion) on top of it. Their lie was one of strict obedience to their particular religion — High Sparrow's method of grabbing power for his own metaphoric "House".

I think ridding the Realm of that particular disorder (a stand-in for *not* starting thousands of years of Hubbard or Catholic Church-like dysfunction) gives some indication that even though this story may not have a happy ending as far as favorite characters go, Danny's/Varys' want to "break the wheel" and free the Realm may end with the destruction of the Iron Throne. I think that all that will be necessary is for one of the dragons to survive. Whether Jon or Danny commands it (one of them would have to live to command a dragon), the dragon will melt the throne and signal an end to monarchies. If the show is *really* clever, they'll splice in some frames of Elizabeth II's skin melting as the throne melts — if not, I'll make that edit later ;)
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Apr 28 19:07:39
One hour to show time!
If anyone is interested in making a MEGADETH LIST for the Winterfell battle >:D ...

(i.e., make a list of whom you think will survive, and whom you think will DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!! (Nicholas Cage Face/Off scene: http://youtu.be/8ce557hlgEM?t=106 ))

Most correct wins! For scoring..
• Your kill only counts if they're turned into a wight or just totes dead (killed and burned, or, if the Night King or Viserion (the wight-dragon), killed apparently for good)
• It's not a kill if Melisandre shows up **during the battle** and saves them. If she saves someone *after* the battle, then that kill still counts.
• If someone dies *while* running from the battle, it counts if the battle is still happening or if the Night Army is still killing stragglers on the battle field
• If someone dies *after* running from the battle (e.g., they've set up camp, there's been a big "battle is over" pause, or they've decided to relax for a while), then that doesn't count

===
===

Winterfell (Mostly Major) Character List:
-=-=-=-

House Stark
--
• Arya
• Sansa
• Bran
• Theon

House Mormont
--
• Lyanna
• Jorrah

House Lannister
--
• Ser Jaime
• Tyrion

House Targaryen
--
• Daenerys Stormborn, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Lady of Dragonstone, Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons
• Jon, Da King in da Nort
• Drogon (largest of the three dragons)
• Rhaegal (dragon)

Touched by Fire
--
• Tormund Giantsbane
• The Hound
• Lord Beric Dondarrion (eye patch, Lord of Light flaming sword guy)
• Little girl with the burn on her face whom Davos told to go to the crypt with the other losers

House Random
--
• Gendry Baratheon
• Ser Brienne of Tarth
• Podrick Payne
• Ser Davos Seaworth, the Onion Knight
• Grey Worm
• Missandei
• Yohn Royce (Knights of the Vale Commander)
• Dolorous Edd (current Steward of the Night's Watch)
• Samwise Gamgee (Samwell Tarly)
• Gilly (Sam's wildling GF)
• Little Sam (Sam's wildling GF's son)
• Varys (bald eunuch)
• Dothraki Commander (He hasn't even got a name tag! He's got no chance!)

Night Army
--
The Night King
Viserion (dragon)
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Apr 28 19:15:44
My Lists

Ded List
--
• Sansa
• Bran
• Theon
• Jorrah Mormont
• Ser Jaime
• Rhaegal (dragon)
• Viserion (wight-dragon)
• Lord Beric Dondarrion
• Gendry Baratheon
• Ser Brienne of Tarth
• Ser Davos Seaworth, the Onion Knight
• Grey Worm
• Missandei
• Yohn Royce (Knights of the Vale Commander)
• Dolorous Edd (current Steward of the Night's Watch)
• Dothraki Commander


Survivors List
--
• Arya
• Lyanna Mormont
• Tyrion
• Daenerys
• Jon
• Drogon (largest of the three dragons)
• Tormund Giantsbane
• The Hound
• Little girl with the burn on her face whom Davos told to go to the crypt with the other losers
• Podrick Payne
• Samwise Gamgee (Samwell Tarly)
• Gilly (Sam's wildling GF)
• Little Sam (Sam's wildling GF's son)
• Varys (bald eunuch)
• The Night King
obaminated
Member
Sun Apr 28 19:58:49
Jaime has a lot of story left to tell in regards to cersie. So he wont die.

Anyways, this is it. Dont get scared now.
smart dude
Member
Sun Apr 28 21:27:45
InB4 everyone already said this, but wtf??? I could bare even SEE what happened in this episode. Shit tier production. No idea what was going on. Worst episode in GOT history.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Apr 28 21:49:50
Arg! My lists :'(

..
Ded List (7/16 correct) (8 if Royce is okay)
--
• Sansa ✘
• Bran ✘
• Theon ✔
• Jorrah Mormont ✔
• Ser Jaime ✘
• Rhaegal (dragon) ✔
• Viserion (wight-dragon) ✔
• Lord Beric Dondarrion ✔
• Gendry Baratheon ✘
• Ser Brienne of Tarth ✘
• Ser Davos Seaworth, the Onion Knight ✘
• Grey Worm ✘
• Missandei ✘
• Yohn Royce (Knights of the Vale Commander) (???)
• Dolorous Edd (current Steward of the Night's Watch) ✔
• Dothraki Commander ✔


Survivors List (12/15 correct) (13 if little girl appears)
--
• Arya ✔
• Lyanna Mormont ✘
• Tyrion ✔
• Daenerys ✔
• Jon ✔
• Drogon (largest of the three dragons) ✔
• Tormund Giantsbane ✔
• The Hound ✔
• Little girl with the burn on her face whom Davos told to go to the crypt with the other losers (???)
• Podrick Payne ✔
• Samwise Gamgee (Samwell Tarly) ✔
• Gilly (Sam's wildling GF) ✔
• Little Sam (Sam's wildling GF's son) ✔
• Varys (bald eunuch) ✔
• The Night King ✘
Forwyn
Member
Sun Apr 28 22:10:24
"• Rhaegal (dragon) ✔ "

Are we sure Rhaegal went down? Thought I see green scales over the Targaryen ships in the preview.
hood
Member
Sun Apr 28 22:31:56
Pretty sure the dragon that was about to kill Jon was Rhaegal, the dragon he was riding.
obaminated
Member
Sun Apr 28 22:32:42
rhaegal is still alive, he just collapsed and then fled the battle after jon fell off him.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Apr 28 23:03:17
"rhaegal is still alive"

Arg, that looks right :/ ... I wrote him off, but this show tends to be more deliberate when important deaths happen, so that was a bad call. Looking at the preview now... looks like two dragons flying around.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Apr 28 23:28:40
I could bare even SEE what happened in this episode."

were you watching the HD version? i had the non-HD channel on at first (as some critter outside has chewed the cable wire & the HD channel is not working) & it was awful... but was able to get the good version via HBO-GO
(though being night time all episode plus the magical darkness or whatever it was, also made things hard)


pretty good guessing, CC! ... you got the main chars who died pretty solidly, even if you expected way more death :p
obaminated
Member
Sun Apr 28 23:37:24
the dothraki charge turning into a complete rout, after having magic swords and seeming to have an advantage was really great to watch.
obaminated
Member
Sun Apr 28 23:38:35
i think brienne and gendry are safe bets to stay alive for the rest of the series now. jaime dying in brienne's arms (as he has said he wants to die in the arms of the woman he loves) seems pretty certain.
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