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Utopia Talk / Politics / Game of Throne: Oslo
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun May 05 19:44:41
The Battle of Winterfell is over and a new chapter for Westeros begins.

One hour 18 mins of fuck if I know I only thing I know from these preview photos is way too many people surviving. Seriously only like may 100 unullied were alive but apprently half the army made it. Fuck will they tell me Theon was the only GreyJoy that died.

How come Ned Stark (freshest corpse in crypt) not come alive?

When did Danny learn to fight?

Im vehmently against Cersai being the final villian! Whose with me?

ohh and shit gets dark on Veep

CrownRoyal
Member
Sun May 05 20:04:58
Let’s do it
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 05 20:20:48
"How come Ned Stark (freshest corpse in crypt) not come alive?"

I know the answer to that one! :D
..it's because he was dismembered after he was displayed at King'd Landing.. so he wouldn't have been able to stand up or anything :p

..
"When did Danny learn to fight?"

Good question. I still hope she'll die when someone realizes that she's nothing without constant, direct supervision.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun May 05 20:29:30
Omg, if they show that yeti tits, I’m going blind
hood
Member
Sun May 05 21:54:23
Yeah, this is all pretty anticlimactic now that the long night has ended. I just don't give 2 shits about court intrigue anymore.
Forwyn
Member
Sun May 05 21:56:31
It's awfully sunny. Guess the NK really did bring winter.
obaminated
Member
Sun May 05 22:02:59
in season 2, littlefinger brings the remains of Ned and says they are his bones, so presumably they did the old world thing where they melt the skin off or whatever.

also, surprisingly actiony episode, really thought it would be just moving pieces around for the final 2 hours, but turns out we lose another dragon and Dany's navy is pretty much wrecked.

I was wondering why the Lannisters only had 1 ballista last season, mass producing them really nullifies the dragon threat. Especially having them on the city walls, can't be swarmed by land forces so until the city walls are taken, the dragon is going to get pelted.

also, rip messandei, i wanted to see her tits one last time... but let's be honest, her death was the gentlest death cersie has given her enemies so far.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 05 22:03:41
I liked it!
Intense stage-setting. Varys' warning came in, Bronn got to play the sides for his fortune, and we got some important farewells and missed connections ;)
obaminated
Member
Sun May 05 22:26:19
itll be funny if all the lannisters die and Bronn never gets paid, he ends up back at the tavern we met him in, ordering a drink.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 05 23:06:40
"her death was the gentlest death cersie has given her enemies so far."

It was nice that the Mountain got to use his sword, but I was expecting him to Sparta-kick her off the wall and let gravity make the kill. ;D

..
For teleporters: Looks like Arya and the Hound had a day's head start on Jon's troops, so their assassination attempts may be underway in the background. Jaime may be a week behind (he was still at Winterfell when word arrived of the attack near Dragonstone). If they want to time it out for Jaime to arrive during the battle, then they'll have to say that Jaime was riding really fast to catch a slow-moving marching army, that Jon's army camped for a while before starting, or that the siege is multi-day (last unlikely). :p
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun May 05 23:11:33
Tormund could've made Brienne happy, maybe she can still catch him... or maybe he hasn't left yet...
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 05 23:12:34
Knew I forgot something!
Brienne needs to get gooder wit werds! If she'd been paying attention then she'd have realized that the things Jaime mentioned were all done *before* he met her. So she could have said something like, "That's who you are with *Cersei* — not who you are with *me*!" ... instead she just sort of believed that he was mean? :( ... kind of reminds me of when Tyrion did the "Go away dog! I don't love you anymore! [actually I do, but I'm trying to appear cruel so you run away :'( ]" thing to Shae and Shae **bought it**. It didn't work when the Hound did it to Arya, so clearly they've made statements about Brienne and Shae's relative intelligence ;p
obaminated
Member
Sun May 05 23:31:14
or emotional state of mind. different from hearing mean words from someone you are in love and vulnerable with.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Mon May 06 00:18:10
No, they just need to move to plot further.

Sort of how Arya core trait is she is super loyal yet she just hit/quit with Gendry.
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 00:28:12
Arya doesn't love Gendry. She never said she loved him. After having sex with him, he is sound asleep but she is looking off into the distance. That's movie language for showing he is content and she isn't.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Mon May 06 00:36:20
Arya is always looking off in the distance. She is no longer a well written character her only purpose is to kill Cersai.
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 00:40:44
well, i think her purpose is to kill cersie and then dany and make sure her "brother" gets his birthright because Sansa and Arya are of the same mind that they are family and that being fooled by sweet pussy is the downfall of all men.

but i also think Dany will defeat cersie and then demand sansa come to kings landing to swear fealty, sansa will refuse, dany will declare her a traitor and thatll cause Jon to turn on Dany.
hood
Member
Mon May 06 00:54:21
^ that reminds me. I really wanted to see Sansa and Arya react to Jonaegon. Fuckers took that from me.
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon May 06 01:18:57
"Fuckers took that from me."

We didn't even get Bran's next line there, which was probably something like, "Dude, I don't just say things for people... At least change my diaper first."
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon May 06 01:34:10
Arya won't kill Cersei, she's already got a major kill... maybe she'll get Qyburn or something

lots of people could get Cersei, Jaime might even do it to reprise his slayer role... making everything seem to continue on a cycle seems likely... could even end w/ Danaerys being the unhappy plotting Queen w/ Jon getting fat, while tensions grow w/ the North again
jergul
large member
Mon May 06 02:22:38
I will be right here. I just need to watch the episode first.

Nice title IBTY. Good way to entice me to post even without having anything to say.
Pillz
Member
Mon May 06 03:15:12
Super loyal? She holds grudges but she left the hound to die.
jergul
large member
Mon May 06 04:13:35
Lineage development

Stark-Baratheon (Arya-Gendry)
Stark-Targaryen (Jon-Daenerys)
Stark-Lannister (Sansa-Tyrion)
Lannister-Tarth (Jaime-Brienne)
Lannister-Greyjoy (Cersei-Euron)
Bronn-?

Perhaps the most significant development is rendering Snow moot. Bastards are being recognized left-right-and center.

Arya may never marry Gendry, but any offspring from their laison would certainly be recognized by Gendry.

Direct marriage and joint rule was ruled out (so to speak), but they still knew each other intimately on at least one occassion. Jon of course is both stark and targaryen already.

Sansa's main doubts about Tyrion are likely to reach a head (his divided loyalties cannot stand).

Brienne is an only child, heiresse, and not likely to bed to many other men in the future.

Cersei has now attributed her pregnacy to Euron.

===========

Important to keep track of these things as lineage and family are main drivers behind character motivations.
hood
Member
Mon May 06 06:32:37
"Arya won't kill Cersei"

Cersei is on her list.
Rugian
Member
Mon May 06 07:47:46
hood
Member Sun May 05 21:54:23
Yeah, this is all pretty anticlimactic now that the long night has ended. I just don't give 2 shits about court intrigue anymore.

^
jergul
large member
Mon May 06 08:26:31
Hood
Relatively vibrant. For dead - see general talk. People frequenting the cat memes there should ask what about themselves killed the forum dead and lead them to leech over here.

The rest of us should ask if we should let them do here what they did there.

Ruggy
Take the big picture. The series is all about not caring for individual fates. Lineage interaction is what is fun.

Anyway, all we saw was a warlord and his minions die. I doubt it is the end of the white walkers (though perhaps it is for this series).

Nothing to get too excited about.
Seb
Member
Mon May 06 08:55:58
CC/Obaminated:

I haven't seen the directors extra.

Key features of Cannae:
Hannibal is outnumbered.
Hanibal arranges his forces in a horsehoe to further disguise where his strength lies and encourage overconfidence.
Hanibal has his barbarian allies advance rapidly then give way, encouraging the romans to advance and break the centre as per their doctrine.
Hannibal then encircles once all the Roman line is engaged.

Hanibal didn't invent encirclement. Cf. Marathon, and Alexander used it. Hannibals genius was to lure the Romans into spring themselves to be encircled *despite* the known dangers.

Battle of the Bastards:

Ramsay outnumbers Jon.

Ramsay's forces charge and die en mass The wildlings creating an insurmountable barrier.

Ramsay then encircles.

Ok, it's a battle where one side encircles the other. But rather than Hannibal brilliantly exploiting Roman over confidence to defeat a much larger force, we have Ramsay sacraficing much of his numerical superiority, perhaps unnecessarily.

Without the directors commentary (which I've not seen) theres nothing specific to say it's not any other battle where one side plans to encircle the other. Cannae is just a particularly famous one.

Pillz
Member
Mon May 06 09:18:49
UP is as dead as Utopia, we're just also as stubborn. UGT has accepted its fate.

Besides, outside of /b/ there is probably no 'random' board that is long-term successful. UGT had a good run though. As did UP
Forwyn
Member
Mon May 06 09:42:48
Watching Rhaegal's death again, Dany definitely had time to command them both to dive, but she was busy giving Emilia's eyebrows time to act.

Dany continues her trend of being absolutely useless without Drogon, and he is being rendered obsolete by the engineering mind of Qyburn advancing military technology by a hundred years.
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 10:17:50
Regarding not seeing sansa and arya react to Jon's legacy, we actually do. Sansa immediately starts plotting Jon's ascension and arya leaves to kings landing saying she wont ever return. They both clearly told jon that he is getting his birth right. Even jon tells everyone in the north he isn't coming back. We dont see it cause it spoils the plot.
Forwyn
Member
Mon May 06 10:25:15
AKA exactly as Dany predicted, and her power play was to just beg Jon to lie to his family. lulz
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 10:42:31
She really didnt have another move. Killing Jon the war hero would lose her entire army and support. She really isnt the type to hire assassins to kill off arya (who is also a war hero and who would stop the assassin pretty reliably) and sansa.
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 10:51:08
Also there is bran the CIA of Westeros to contend with.
Forwyn
Member
Mon May 06 10:51:43
Her play is to marry Jonaegon as an equal, instead of as a silent consort, if her pride will allow it.
Rugian
Member
Mon May 06 10:58:43
"Nothing to get too excited about."

Precisely. The excitement was killed off in Ep 3.
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 11:32:28
Dany clearly is a tyrant who isn't willing to share power. She isn't evil like Cersie, but she wants power.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon May 06 11:56:13
the dead were never the main story, resolving the game of thrones is the main story of Game of Thrones
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon May 06 11:58:20
...or even remove the 'resolving' part
Forwyn
Member
Mon May 06 12:21:33
Game of Thrones is the first of seven books in the Song of Ice and Fire.

Just turns out that Ice is Jon, and starting from the very first scene in the series, and several more seasons of hyping it up, they were just a B-storyline. That throwing arm is for more than just javelins.
Paramount
Member
Mon May 06 12:26:59
Oh my god. The last episode was one the best ever. This one was the worst episode ever. The first 20 minutes was 20 minutes of nonsense. What a waste of valuable minutes that they could have filled with more exciting content instead.

And Jamie and that tall knight woman, their scene was just dumb. And then all of sudden Jamie decides to leave because he is a ”terrible person”. Rofl. So dumb.

And when Danearys got attacked, why didn’t she attack the ships from behind? I don’t think they can rotate those gay ballistas 360 degrees. And why didn’t Danearys spot the ships? She was flying high above. It is called aerial fking reconnaissance! What a joke.

And how come the first two missiles hit like it was easy as peasy, but the second time when they fired 40 missiles NONE OF THEM HIT! What fking a joke.

Also, Sansa is an idiot. I hope Jon kills her when he learns she broke her oath.

And yeah we didn’t even get to see Sansa and Aray’s reaction to when they learned the truth about Jon Snow. I feel cheated on the confectionery.

WORST EPISODE EVER!
hood
Member
Mon May 06 12:31:16
mt, we don't see their reaction to hearing the words. We knew what their actions would be. That's less interesting.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon May 06 12:32:51
the dead were not relevant to anything Daenarys did in the east, nor Ned, Rob, Catelyn... not to any Highgarden, Dorne, Riverrun, Vale stories... very little of King's Landing

resolving that first doesn't seem weird to me... fire (D) & ice (J) still continuing their story
Paramount
Member
Mon May 06 12:37:36
”Nice title IBTY.”

What’s up with those titles anyways? What does Oslo got to do with GoT? I don’t get it.
Paramount
Member
Mon May 06 12:42:29
”but apprently half the army made it.”

Yeah. Half of the Unsullied, half of the Dothraki survived. Wtf is this nonsense. I got the impression that only like 1/3 of everyone survived.
Paramount
Member
Mon May 06 12:50:41
Sorry, not the Dothraki. The Northmen.
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 12:53:04
@hood - arguable point. if we give away the plot then the payoff will be empty. but we see their actions and we can speculate about it and then there will be a payoff when all the breadcrumbs lead to a logical conclusion. they convinced jon to be king and that they are will to die for his rights so he should just accept it.
obaminated
Member
Mon May 06 12:55:18
even aryas line "i respect that" seemed like she respected Jons attitude, but she felt it was wrong.
Forwyn
Member
Mon May 06 12:56:58
Speaking of Ice and Fire, if dragons = fire and NK = ice, briefly reviving magic in the world, then Drogon's death will be a nail in the coffin, paving the way to modernization.

I fully expect Qyburn to be issuing muskets in the next decade
Pillz
Member
Mon May 06 13:22:39
Oh come on. How many years of fanfiction deep are you people.

Tumbleweed is right - the story is about Jon and Dany. Her life and accomplishments leading to her actions in westros, and Jon's life and the chain of dominos down south that forced him to raise his claim.

The entire thing is about mythologizing the two of them through their stories (and creating new legends for people like beric or Arya or jorah).

Magic in westros and the rest of the world was never dead. Drogon and Dany die tho. Jon abdicates and Sansa rules as queen.

There is literally no other reason to keep her alive for the story. The eyrie was an easy write off, have Arya stop there or something blah blah. Sansa wins the game of thrones. Jon and Dany bring their house to an end
Forwyn
Member
Mon May 06 13:34:39
Magic was mythological, rare, and impotent in the main narrative areas before the return of the dragons. It's explicitly mentioned a dozen+ times in the books, and even mentioned in the show by Pyat Pree.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 06 13:56:31
What a tremendously stupid episode, and it was a joy to watch. The starbucks coffee cup that eveyone is laughing about online today, is a good metaphore here. Writers clearly stopped giving a fuck about making any kind of sense at this point. And the rest of the crew also stopped giving a fuck, so editors missed the cup. And who cares? This is such a great spectacle
hood
Member
Mon May 06 16:36:18
What payoff? We already know what's going on. It's not a fucking surprise that Sansa distrusts Dany. Nor is it a surprise for Arya to head south. The only potential surprise would be Jon being in on an overthrow, and they wouldn't have had to show that. Just a jaw dropping "what the fuck?" from Sansa and Arya's "I am amused" look would have been enough. They had already built up the tension.
Seb
Member
Mon May 06 17:16:13
Am I alone in thinking Jon, contrary to Varys thoughts, would be a terrible king for the realm. He's shown no interest at all in civil policy.

Maybe Varys thinks he'll just do what he's told.
hood
Member
Mon May 06 17:38:58
Jon will make decisions in the best interest of the people. He doesn't need to come up with ideas, just weigh them and make the right ones.
Forwyn
Member
Mon May 06 18:03:51
Varys went full cuck. The moment Dany indicates that she'll stop fighting with both hands behind her back, before she winds up with all dragons dead and her armies decimated, he's throwing a fit about MUH MAD QUEEN and working behind her back.

She was showing extreme power-hungry tendencies at the start of S7 and not a peep from Varys. She very reasonably shows anger at their successive failures, failures pinned on her advisors and commanders. Not a single person thought to mention that they should scout out the island fortress that they left abandoned?

And some fucking retard thought it was fine to go ahead with Cuck Varys' surrender option to Cersei in front of a dozen scorpions. They're rather lucky the actual Mad Queen didn't slaughter them all right there; Unsullied shields would have done fuck all against those bolts.
Hrothgar
Member
Mon May 06 23:35:55
The "tune in next week" scenes have me wondering if something unexpected is going to happen with the last dragon - seems to show a lot of quick scenes of characters looking up to the sky with a "holy shit" look upon their faces.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon May 06 23:44:00
Missandei asked her to roast the place & Daenarys was already considering it, so she pretty much has to do something along those lines


also... what's the etiquette for Tyrion... is he supposed to bring the head back w/ him or leave it there or what? awkward position
Asgard
Member
Mon May 06 23:52:40
I like how GoT turns into Star Trek with all those teleportations going on.
jergul
large member
Tue May 07 00:42:01
Seb
I think Valys thinks Jon can be managed. He was explicit about that when considering just marrying Daen and Jon.

Forwyn
You are pointing out the thing that irked me the most. The ballistae should not have been a surprise (spy networks should have figured them out long ago).

===========

jergul
large member
Tue May 07 01:02:56
3 spin-offs pretty far up the pipeline confirmed.
Paramount
Member
Tue May 07 01:20:10
”She was showing extreme power-hungry tendencies at the start of S7 and not a peep from Varys.”

But at that time Varys didn’t know that Jon Snow has claims on the throne.


”seems to show a lot of quick scenes of characters looking up to the sky with a "holy shit" look upon their faces.”

It may be the Night King and his dragon who is coming back. Or Danearys dragon who is eating Cersei.

I doubt Arya will kill Cersei. It will be Danearys.
Forwyn
Member
Tue May 07 01:30:31
If Varys' only tie to Daenerys was that he hadn't found a better option yet, then he's more of a snake than Littlefinger. At least that dude was ride or die Sansa
jergul
large member
Tue May 07 01:37:12
Forwyn
More of a revolutionary than Littlefinger. He goal for the people precludes feudalism and monarchy long term.
hood
Member
Tue May 07 07:27:30
Arya likely won't have another high profile assassination. However, I could see a plot where the war is won by Dany/Jonaegon but Cersei escapes alive. As she is finding a new home on the Eastern continent, Arya ends up tracking her down and killing her.

Either way, Varys is indeed pretty slithery. He has seen how Dany rules. One is allowed a vendetta or two in their lifetime, especially when a child is murdered.
Pillz
Member
Tue May 07 07:46:58
Yeah he has seen how she rules and how people follow her. Jon and Dany are polar opposites in both regards.

Varys figured Dany was his best shot for the time being. Now he realizes Jon is even better.

Arya is getting an important kill. Probably Dany, who will first kill Cersie. Next best bet is Qyburn
hood
Member
Tue May 07 07:53:36
No doubt, she'll kill someone important. It might not, probably won't be, the high profile assassination of the mad queen.
obaminated
Member
Tue May 07 09:02:21
Arya will probably help the hound kill the mountain. Hound is gonna have to get over the fire thing. At least I hope the hound kills the mountain. Could be he fails, it is GoT after all.
Seb
Member
Tue May 07 10:39:41
My money is still on Jamie killing cersi


Hood:
Jon will try and make decisions in the best interests of the people but will fail because he's guileless and expects everyone else to think as he does.

Cf. Letting the cat out of the bag re his parentage. That was a seriously bad move. Nothing good can come of it as we will soon see

Jergul:

Yes, Varys does, which is naive. Jon is more likely to do what Jon thinks is right.

He'd be a nightmare dispensing justice and judgement when it comes to the typical "hard cases make bad law" connundrums. And I don't think he'd listen to his advisors on those points.

Mind you, Danny wasn't great at that either.



Paramount
Member
Tue May 07 10:42:00
So what will happen with Euron? Will he survive? Will he be killed by dragon fire or by Arya, or by someone else?
Paramount
Member
Tue May 07 10:48:27
”My money is still on Jamie killing cersi ”

Maybe. But we won’t get to see Jamie’s reaction to when he learns that Euron made Cersei pregnant.

We will only see someone telling him.

- Jamei, I’ve got to tell you something.
- What?

...and then they cut the scene.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue May 07 11:17:30
Euron didn't make her pregnant, it's another Jaime baby, she lied to Euron

Euron might ponder how Tyrion knew Cersei was pregnant... timing-wise not sure anyway he could know if it was Euron who provided the sperm (i don't recall the timing of events)
Paramount
Member
Tue May 07 11:44:07
So maybe Euron kills Cersei when he learns that she lied to him.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue May 07 13:43:19
i'll add a mob of peasants to the list of who may kill Cersei

lots of options (but i'd rule out Arya, she can't kill the 2 main villains... plus Littlefinger, the Freys, etc)
obaminated
Member
Tue May 07 14:23:55
Well, I dont think euron figuring about the false pregnancy to be a thing, but even if it is, it's not like he thought cersie hadnt bred with jaime before. More likely he would murder the infant and then rape a new child into cersie. But not enough time left for that drama.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 07 19:02:57
"it's another Jaime baby,"

That's assuming she didn't abort the lil' fucker as soon as Jaime abandoned her.
hood
Member
Tue May 07 19:07:34
She wouldn't know about the Euron kid so quickly if it weren't Jaime's. It hasn't been a month since they had sex, right? It's only been like ~2 weeks, yes?
Rugian
Member
Tue May 07 19:09:51
With all the teleporting going on, I have no fucking idea where we are in the timeline at this point.
hood
Member
Tue May 07 19:27:27
How long does it take an army to march from Winterfell to the King's Landing? Jon's army was, what, a fortnight away?
Forwyn
Member
Tue May 07 20:55:17
Dialing back to episode 1, Cersei opined to Robert that they had been traveling for a month. Granted, this was a full retinue, with women, children, and servants.

Robb took at least a full episode just to reach the Riverlands - granted he had to call his bannermen and pass the Twins.

One week would be a miracle, two weeks is probably doable.
obaminated
Member
Tue May 07 21:04:29
its reasonable to assume a lot of time has passed in this episode. Dany and her unsullied have marched from Winterfell to White Harbor and then set sail and arrived at Dragon Stone. If Jon is still two weeks away from arriving at Kings Landing, it is safe to say it's been two weeks since Dany left winterfell, bringing it to a month in total for Jon to travel from Winterfell to Kings Landing with his Northmen and DOthraki.
Rugian
Member
Fri May 10 11:26:49
IMDb has the latest episode rated at 6.5/10, by far the lowest out of any GoT episode ever.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt6027914/?ref_=m_ttep_ep_ep4

Dorne and Sansa's defilement aren't rated as badly rofl. Looks like its finally starting to dawn on people about how shit this season is.
obaminated
Member
Fri May 10 15:18:13
i think ramsay raping sansa was really great to watch. unfortunately they didnt involve dogs like they do in the books.
hood
Member
Fri May 10 17:44:37
Is anyone surprised that the rapist enjoyed watching a rape? The bestiality angle, though. Creepy, dude.
Seb
Member
Fri May 10 19:50:13
Lol
obaminated
Member
Fri May 10 20:24:44
hey, the show took a risk by having ramsay do to sansa what ramsay would obviously do to sansa. but they did pussy out by not sticking to the source material.
Paramount
Member
Sat May 11 04:48:08
"i think ramsay raping sansa was really great to watch. unfortunately they didnt involve dogs like they do in the books."


Wow. Sick. Abominated would blend in well among IS or in a Mexican drug cartel.
obaminated
Member
Sat May 11 15:43:23
im sorry for wanting adaptations to stick to their source material.
hood
Member
Sat May 11 17:02:23
That's a handy excuse for a bestiality loving rapist.
obaminated
Member
Sat May 11 17:24:31
just to be clear, ive never condoned rape.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 12 20:13:02
"just to be clear, ive never condoned rape."

But shouldn't you? Wasn't Rome founded on the rape of the Sabine women? Or is it really rape if the destiny of Rome is on the line? ;)

..
[tw]: "lots of people could get Cersei, Jaime might even do it to reprise his slayer role..."

For the record, I think in UP we've been talking about that as the most likely outcome since very early in the show :p ... When Jaime started forming a conscience with Brienne (S3E3) it was discussed, when Cersei finally killed the Tyrells and took the crown from Tommen it came up again (S6E10), and with Jaime now heading south it looks like it's even more on the table than ever. I'd even say that it's the most *obvious* plot development ahead — or just as obvious as the Hound having to face the Mountain in Cleganbowl 2019. With that in mind, it would actually be a *surprise* if anyone *other* than Jaime killed Cersei, so it's a "prediction" of the default (predicting the obvious... so, Seb "predicted" it too, and should not feel vindicated if it turns out to be correct; i.e., so did most other people). That's the only reason that I've thought (as others have) that Arya might kill Cersei using Jaime's face — it's a slight alteration of expectations. But, I agree with the thought that Arya has had too much glory and probably won't get another high profile kill.

That's why I think it's notable (above) that Jaime is probably a week or two *behind* Jon's army, but Arya is *ahead* of Jon's army; if Jaime must kill Cersei, that makes it look like Danny's attack will fail, Cersei will survive the initial Unsullied assault, Cersei will survive Arya and the Hound's attempted assassination**, and Cersei will have to be killed *later* by a disgusted Jaime — who, despite what he said to Brienne, has a conscience now and cannot stand by Cersei's decisions. That's the new obvious.

With the current survivors running around, things may be more clear: I would guess a picture where a captive Danny (who attacked Euron's fleet and was captured?) is about to be put to death by Cersei via the Mountain... but maybe Jaime would need an emotional struggle and he doesn't know Danny.. so maybe Tyrion is captive and about to be executed (too? or just Tyrion and no Danny?)... so Tyrion (and Danny?) under the Mountain's sword, and Jaime tells Cersei that she can't order her own brother's death. She's about to do so anyways, so he kills her and then the Mountain kills him. That could work...

**(but does that mean that the Hound will be killed by the Mountain as opposed to the "good" brother, the Hound, finally overcoming fire? It seems like the Mountain would need to kill Arya, but if the Hound is supposed to run interference for Arya while Arya kills Cersei... that could get complicated... so maybe while Arya is getting ready to take out Cersei, the Mountain is supposed to be dead via the Hound but he stabs Arya in his last effort? Hmm..)

..
Oh, one meme/complaint I've been reading is that Danny should have run recon and then she wouldn't have lost a dragon to a scorpion fleet (i.e., if recon had been done, then Danny would have known that Cersei/Euron had scorpions and Danny would have left the dragons in the rear)... but that goes against a big plot point of the last episode: Danny didn't want to wait. *She* wanted to do the recon herself, and she thought that flying with two injured dragons would be okay. It's no surprise that the slow-moving dragon with a hole in its wing was hit and not the fast-moving dragon. It makes sense still that the strongest and largest dragon could avoid a volley of scorpion bolts when a slow-moving dragon couldn't avoid a point attack. I'm all for criticizing *Danny's* decision to rush to King's Landing, but it's not bad writing if a character explains her reasons for making a poor choice.

..
And lulz... I saw that there was a Seb@CC post, but I didn't read it. I'm just going to guess that Seb thinks it's totally okay that he missed the Battle of the Bastards = Cannae angle because of missing the behind-the-episode commentary and that that makes it totally fine to not see a parallel between Hannibal shields encircling and crushing an enemy and Ramsay's shield army doing the same. lol... Seb, just learn an ounce of humility and realize that you're bad with parallels and metaphors ;D .. and don't respond, because I'm not going to read that either :p

..
Oh! Forgot to mention: Last episode Ser Davos sort of voiced my complaints about the Lord of Light, so I don't think I'm being out of line wanting to know who the Lord of Light *is*. He, like me, was like, "[This motherfucker supposedly manipulates us into a whole battle, but after the battle and the death of the Red Woman he hasn't even got a sign for anyone? What kind of BS is that?]? ... so that must be a plot point coming up.

Better submit this now, the new episode already started...
Seb
Member
Tue May 14 11:54:46
It's ok CC, we know your explosion was just because you missed the fact that the show explicitly showed predestination and you didn't recognise it.
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