Utopia Talk / Politics / Israelis wants war with Britain

and justice 4 all Member	Mon Nov 17 13:16:59 Trade war that is. lol.. damn. The Jewish newspaper Isralie Insider is really fun to read with lots of stupid comments. Israelis are really sensitive. I mean, they want a war with Britain and the EU just because Britain might consider to label products manufactured in West Bank settlements. http://isr...ogs/uk-plan-to-label-west-bank Israel infuriated by U.K. plan to label West Bank produce http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1037263.html Comment by Ralph Levy 13 hours ago RALPHS RANT British War on Israel Just a short comment about British Foreign Secretary Miliband visit to Israel. If the British and the Eu want to declare a economic war against Israel and the settlers then maybe it's time in my opinion for the settlers to declare war on the British. Jews from around the world should start boycotts of British products. Of course the British don't produce a lot, but if we Jews stop going to the UK, stop watching and buying British movies, stop watching BBC America, send emails and notes to advertisers. Maybe we can make a dent. Man, so stupid ^ First, it's not a British war on Israel. Second, little does he know about the political and economic ties that Israel enjoys with the EU under the Euro-Med program. It gives Israel almost equal benefits as a EU member state is having. But Israel doesn't even have any obligations. The only obligation they have is the one that they are breaking. Read below. Why should Israel have such a good deal when they're not even a contributing member of the EU? And when Israel is in violation of the very Declaration that governs the EU-Med program, and when Israel is in contradiction of European norms of behavior and values? The Barcelona Declaration governing the Euro-Med process commits signatories to: "Act in accordance with the United Nations Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, as well as other obligations under international law...; develop the rule of law and democracy in their political systems, while recognizing in this framework the right of each of them to choose and freely develop its own political, socio-cultural, economic and judicial system; respect human rights and fundamental freedoms and guarantee the effective legitimate exercise of such rights and freedoms, including freedom of expression, freedom of association for peaceful purposes..." Israel contravenes international law, most obviously through the collective punishment of the population of Gaza and its continuing illegal settlement and occupation policies. Ehud Barak ? now Israel's Defense Minister - said earlier this year that no food, fuel or medical supplies would cross into Gaza without his authorisation. There can be no clearer indication that the blockade of Gaza is a military siege and a collective punishment. Furthermore, in the June 6th editions of Ha'aretz and The Jerusalem Post he declared that an Israeli invasion of Gaza was now closer than ever ? and, specifically ? that it would precede any ceasefire currently being mediated by Egyptian diplomats. Lately, the Israeli government has issued tenders for contracts to build another 850 housing units in illegal settlements. And it has opened the second E1 police headquarters, paving the way for yet more housing units in the police HQ's previous location in the Palestinian neighbourhood of Ras al Amud in east Jerusalem. The Israeli army denies entry to central Hebron to all but the violent religious settlers, declaring the town a closed military zone for the past six weeks. Checkpoints and impassable roadblocks restricting movement in the West Bank have increased ? despite a commitment from Ehud Barak to remove them in order to relieve the "life fabric" of West Bank Palestinians. Can these be the actions and values for which the EU stands? No. Clearly, Israel is in violation of the EU-Med declaration, as well as they are in violation of the only obligation Israel has, in order to have this good deal with the EU to begin with. So the EU needs to re-evaluate its ties and trade deals with Israel. It is Israel that must do what the EU tells them if Israel wants to trade with us and enjoy beneficial deals. It's NOT Israel who should dictate and cry at Britain and the EU what kind of beneficial deals Israel ought to get. So before any Israeli's starts to whine and cry about that Britain might want to label West Bank settlement products, they should think over the fact that the EU could, and should, cancel its trade agreement with Israel. So, if any Israelis still wants a trade war. Bring it on! It'd be fun to watch Israel crumble. lol
Asgard Member	Mon Nov 17 13:20:05 Ya know what's funny though? Britain has no problem not-labling any palestinian products even though they're used to fund suicide bombings. Huh, well, british...
and justice 4 all Member	Mon Nov 17 13:26:49 Maybe because the Palestinians are already labeling their own products? The products manufactured by settlers on occupied territories though, just read Made in Israel. Which is wrong. Consumers ought to be able to know where their products are being manufactured. Is it in Israel, or on occupied territory (in Palestine)?
Paramount Member	Mon Nov 17 13:34:06 Agrees with and justice 4 all :)
Asgard Member	Mon Nov 17 13:57:00 "Consumers ought to be able to know where their products are being manufactured." The pals should put lables saying "manufactured in Palestine and funding suicide bombings", just like the westbank products are labled "manufactured by settlers in the west bank" which actually says between the lines "manufactured by zionist occupiers". if the pals do that, I won't mind the british labling.
iii Member	Mon Nov 17 14:02:34 funding suicide bombers is fun i don't see any problem there hardly can wait to see another bus exploded
Asgard Member	Mon Nov 17 14:03:30 I hope you're in it when it happens
iii Member	Mon Nov 17 14:11:52 impossible is more probable that you would be there
Asgard Member	Mon Nov 17 14:13:12 yes, indeed. But it doesn't stop me from hoping you're in it.
iii Member	Mon Nov 17 14:16:36 yes hope dies last but surely hope dies
Canadian Member	Mon Nov 17 14:32:00 Hmmm...if "manufactured in Palestine" has the subtext of "funding suicide bombings", then the subtext of "made by West bank settlers" products would be "manufactured by Zionist occupiers". Let people "get it" themselves, if they're smart enough.
Paramount Member	Mon Nov 17 14:40:30 I just think that products that are manufactured in Palestine has to have the correct label on it. It should read Made in Palestine on it. Not Made in Israel. Because these products aren't manufactured in Israel, they are manufactured in Palestine, although on occupied Palestine.
Asgard Member	Mon Nov 17 16:25:10 "if they're smart enough. " Yeah well, herein lies the problem.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 17 16:34:19 Asgard: The issue is that we want clear labelling for Palestinian, Israeli and settler stuff. Currently I avoid buying anything from Israel/Palestine.
werewolf dictator Member	Mon Nov 17 16:38:48 jews should wear gold stars by force especially the bankers and lobbyists and ones who start most all wars over the world like jorgia right now vast peoples cant tell whose a jew so they dont know what theyre doing. and if im wrong and jews are doing only good things we can test it and if im really wrong it will fix antisemitism because we will notice jews only doing good acts so no good argument against forcing them wearing stars.
Asgard Member	Mon Nov 17 16:46:14 If it is labled Palestine, but made by settlers, it would actually make people buy it more, since people are usually sympathetic towards Palestinians. Ain't that dumb of the pro-palestinian brits to ask this labling then?
Steel Member	Tue Nov 18 01:49:23 Asgard You people needs to understand that pretending that goods are made in another country than they really are is fraud and illegal.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 01:52:20 So, lable it Iseael or Palestine? Like I just said, if it would be labled Palestine, it would be bought more than usual, because people would think they fund terror against Israel, when in reality they fund settlers.
Forwyn Member	Tue Nov 18 02:02:23 "Jews from around the world should start boycotts of British products. Of course the British don't produce a lot, but if we Jews stop going to the UK, stop watching and buying British movies, stop watching BBC America, send emails and notes to advertisers. Maybe we can make a dent." Meh, the move isn't really fair, they don't hold the same standards to other areas, but this would be idiotic. Its what the Jews did to Germany before WWII and one of the precursors to the Holocaust..
Steel Member	Tue Nov 18 02:03:25 Asgard I don't care - you guys put the correct land of origin and producer on my Oranges! I don't want to feed my baby girl oranges thouched by muhammedans or socialists jews - I only want oranges from fanatical, orthodox settlements.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 02:05:30 well, no such thing as orthodox settlements
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 04:23:07 Asgard: People really, really don't want to support the settlers.
dark waters Member	Tue Nov 18 08:27:53 If it's war Israel versus GB I personaly bet for Israel...they will make the british to cry indeed:)and I will have an surre profit:))
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 09:44:15 that's because USA will fight for Israel, not much of Israel power
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 11:49:33 I know Seb. But if something by settlers is labled as "palestine" rather than "Israel" like it does currently - then people wouldn't know its by settlers. So it misses the goal. You brits better go off conquering half the world; you're very good at it, better than lecturing other peoples.
Paramount Member	Tue Nov 18 11:51:18 "But if something by settlers is labled as "palestine" rather than "Israel" like it does currently - then people wouldn't know its by settlers." Maybe the Brits wants to label it "Made in occupied territory", so that people will know?
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 12:00:03 the whole of palestine is occupied. even purely-arab cities. See how the brits can't understand complex issues? Much like the Swedes. The brits don't understand that if something says "Israel" even though it is made in Palestine, then it means its made in the settlements, which then gives the brits the choice of either banning it or buying it. If its just "Palestine", they'd be decieved into buying "palestinian" goods, when they're made by israeli occupiers.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 12:05:43 Asgard: That is why they want to label the west bank settlements rather than west bank. Perhaps one day you too may evolve beyond the 19th century policies of colonialism and exploitation that we have left behind.
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 12:08:46 why "West Bank" label and not "Palestine" label?
Paramount Member	Tue Nov 18 12:11:03 Why Rioja, and not Spain?
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 12:11:59 Yeah, well, Seb; when you remove the English and Scots from N. Ireland, then you'd have a right to talk. (not that I don't agree with you)
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 12:22:39 but Israel did promise that Palestine will be an independent country in the future England did not promise that they'll go out from Ireland in the future so, why "West Bank" label and not "Palestine" label? perhaps because Israel lied and Palestine will never be a free country?
Paramount Member	Tue Nov 18 12:25:21 "but Israel did promise that Palestine will be an independent country in the future" Israel also promised to stop expanding and building new settlements. But yet Israel is expanding the illegal settlements on occupied territories. "so, why "West Bank" label and not "Palestine" label? perhaps because Israel lied and Palestine will never be a free country?" Most likely, yes.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 12:42:17 "but Israel did promise that Palestine will be an independent country in the future England did not promise that they'll go out from Ireland in the future " Ok, so Israel should not promise to leave the WB. Arab-Israeli conflict solved!
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 12:43:11 Asgard: Why do you persist in bringing this up again and again and again when I keep spanking your arse over it? You know very well by now that Scotland and Northern Ireland consistently vote to remain in the Union. They are not massively settled by English people, nor are there "English" settlements subject to different laws, military protection etc. Give the West Bank a single citizenship, a single authority, with no special status for the settlers, let the whole lot vote on whether to remain part of Israel, a devolved part of Israel, or the powers to declare a referendum on independence, and then you can make your parallel with Northern Ireland or Scotland. The persistence in raising this issue, time and time again, when it is transparently wrong, borders on lying. Of course, self-deception is a characteristic that often goes hand in hand with the un-evolved colonial mentality. No doubt in time, you will develop as a society beyond that.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 12:48:25 Seb, ofcourse N.Ireland votes to stay in the union... because most N. Irelanders are in fact protestant and descendents of scots and english. Quite a twisted logic you got there Seb. It's the same as if Israel would put a Jewish majority in Palestine, and then it would let *all of palestine*, jews and palestinians, to vote. and we both know the outcome would be to stay. you're actually arguing for that approach? really? I'd expect more from you.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 13:04:32 Asgard: No, they are not mostly descended from the English. Most Irish are largely descended from Scots, but they are not descended from Scots that emigrated there prior to 1700. You are correct it is a catholic/protestant issue, but it is not an ethnic issue. "It's the same as if Israel would put a Jewish majority in Palestine, and then it would let *all of palestine*, jews and palestinians, to vote." Isn't that exactly what you have been trying to do with the settlment programme? Firslty, Britain did not "put" a majority into Northern Ireland. Secondly, Britain has devolved Government to Northern Ireland, allowing them to settle their own future. I expect more from you than your blatant dishonesty and appologetic support for apartheid. The only reason you pick these absurdly retarded comparisons is because you think that somehow, I, as a Brit, have to support my nations history, like you feel bound to support the down right reprehensible, racist and colonial policies of yours. Perhaps you should pick better analogies?
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 13:06:50 *after 1700. The protestant/catholic issue arose after various bits of migration, and prior to nationalism as a force. It's not a Serbian style "lets create facts on the ground" quasi ethnic cleansing campaign that Israel is trying to get away with by doing it very, very slowly.
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 13:13:07 Israelis in not as civilized as English, in fact they are far, far from that. so you cannot expect more from them
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 13:21:48 "Isn't that exactly what you have been trying to do with the settlment programme? " 300,000 settlers. 3.5 million palestinians. So you're wrong here. Seb, I never, ever, not once, and not ever, in this board, or in life, expressed support for the occupation of Palestine. Yet, behold, how amusing; you make me a supporter of just because I am an Israeli. Yet you want me to not make "support [your] nations history,". Ain't that a perfect example of hypocrisy? So why am I against you on this issue? Because you have false facts and ignorance on this issue, much like I have about Ireland (I have only now started a course on the irish-british conflict, I'll know better in a year). I've already listed one such false fact when I proved you wrong now, and by proving your prejudice. I could go on.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 13:22:52 Yet you want me to not make you* a "support[e] [your] nations history,"
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 13:23:30 you are a suporter for the occupation of Palestine
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 13:24:19 Yet you want me to not make you* a "support[er] of [your] nations history," I got a headache. more corrections would soon follow. thanks.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 13:24:32 "you are a suporter for the occupation of Palestine " How is that?
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 13:27:46 Asgard: "300,000 settlers. 3.5 million palestinians. So you're wrong here." Ah, yes, but you are making yourself a majority in certain specific areas (the bits with all majority of the water). You consistently support it. Everytime someone condemns it, you come along an explain how it is justified by Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.
Harof Member	Tue Nov 18 13:29:12 Terror attacks are a quasi ethnic cleansing campaign. I am sure the groups supporting banning settler products would never approve donating to Palestinian groups.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 13:31:03 No, I contest the approach of those who condemn it, and I contest and reasons for them to condemn it, and I contest their one-sidedness. (example: "israel tightens its blockade of gaza; palestinians suffer", without mention of the rockets fired from gaza that brought this tightening.) I've never supported the occupation. I never said it is good, I always said its bad for both peoples. The fact that I argue with you doesn't mean I say you're wrong. You can go back to the earliest post of mine in this thread that I made to you and see the thing in the brackets. please, go ahead.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 13:31:43 sorry, not the first. but it's the only one with brackets.
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 13:38:23 so you are a suporter indeed :) man, we are not fools!
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 13:45:19 Asgard: Look, the current label is "Israel" and "West Bank", what people do not want, is settler produce labelled as West Bank. I don't see what the problem is with that at all.
Steel Member	Tue Nov 18 14:14:56 Asgard You have to understand that just because some palestinians are stupid, doesn't excuse some jews for being stupid. We neither surport Hamas-muhammedans or some rabid jew hive, so we want to be able to differentiate their oranges from oranges made by good jews like your self. Else we have to stop buying oranges at all from you - out of fear that we get talmud-oranges or quran-oranges, instead of Israelly oranges.
Muhammad Member	Tue Nov 18 14:18:19 "oranges made by good jews like your self" rofl I should have known that the vile occupier was an orange picker.
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 14:26:36 they always are
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 14:27:11 No, Seb, you're wrong again. (by the way, I would at least apreciate you saying you were wrongly accusing people). People don't like the fact that there's a "Israel" on things produced on West Bank soil, because that is the sign of occupation. "oranges made by good jews like your self. " I picked apples in summer, quite fun.
Muhammad Member	Tue Nov 18 14:31:00 Pick me an orange, vile israeli. rofl Do something useful, before palestine is liberated, and occupiers such as yourself are beheaded.
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 14:37:39 he did not get it ORANGE !!! FUCK ORANGE REVOLUTION !!! all the time
Paramount Member	Tue Nov 18 14:39:15 "I picked apples in summer, quite fun." Most likely you stole it from your neighbors apple tree.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 14:44:28 Only if my neighbour is a Palestinian, no?
Paramount Member	Tue Nov 18 14:48:38 No, you probably picked them from a fellow Jew, you anti-Semite :)
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 16:24:25 Asgard: "People don't like the fact that there's a "Israel" on things produced on West Bank soil, because that is the sign of occupation." That really is not the issue at all. You are free to believe this if you like. The issue in the UK specifically is people came recently to discover that they were buying goods that were economically supporting the Settlements. I think it is reasonable that they know this when they buy the product. I don't buy anything from Israel or the West Bank, and will not do so until the situation is resolved.
Asgard Member	Tue Nov 18 16:31:16 Whatever. you can continue to believe that Israel is genociding the palesitnians "very very slowly" all you want. maybe one day it would be reality. With governments switches every two years on avarege and PMs voted off all the time, I really don't see how Israel can hold a policy of 40+ years designed to kill all the palestinians. Damn, 40 years. talk about inefficiency...
Harof Member	Tue Nov 18 16:37:40 "I don't buy anything from Israel or the West Bank, and will not do so until the situation is resolved." You check your electronics and such?
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 16:47:32 genocide != ethnic cleansing
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 16:53:08 Harof: I haven't bought any electronics for a long time, but I shall double check in future.
Harof Member	Tue Nov 18 16:56:55 You do the same with China or the Tibetans are not worth the hassle?
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 17:17:14 China is terrible autocracy and treats all it's citizens like shit, and doesn't pretend to be a democracy while it is doing it. Israel, as a democracy that professes to believe in human rights should know better. First and foremost, I believe in trading and opening up with repressive regimes in order to spread western ideas and philosophies. When that fails, then it is best to cut back. Israel clearly knows about them as it practices a form of democracy. So, clearly opening up hasn't worked. No more carrot for you.
Harof Member	Tue Nov 18 17:29:47 Its no Israeli carrot for you, really. Russia is on your list? I'm pretty sure Brits have gas and oil from other sources, so maybe there isn't anything to avoid buying. Say, do you avoid Intel and other carrot eating companies that happen to operate in Israel? Makes dodging Israeli tech much easier, although you never know.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 17:43:26 Harof: More like no Isreali or Palestinian olives. But there are plenty of places I can buy olives and dates from. Israel isn't like China. Israel is not the main producer of Intel chips. You wish. Russia, again, is not a country quite so steeped in hypocrisy. Oh sure, putin professes to be a democrat, but I think we all see where that is going. Israel/Palestine is an ugly little mess of embittered human rights abusers. When you stop murdering and abusing each other, I'm more than willing to buy your products.
Harof Member	Tue Nov 18 17:55:43 "Israel is not the main producer of Intel chips" That is not what I said. I made a 5 sec google, I liked the title- http://sea.../2003658346_intelisrael09.html Intel has technology developed in Israel, you buy Intel? You support jobs in Israel. I guess you'd consider it negligible enough? "Russia, again, is not a country quite so steeped in hypocrisy." It only radiates a few people in England. "When you stop murdering and abusing each other" So you would not buy a product from Palestinians nor donate? That seems fair enough.
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 18:11:44 ho ho ho, you went out there are suficient reasons to initiate a blocade against Israel cause against Russia definitely is under blocade and Putin's Russia killed less ppl beyond his borders than Israel in the last decade
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 18:13:41 *cause Russia definitely is under blocade man, i'm so sleepy! here is hour h 02 in the morning
Harof Member	Tue Nov 18 18:15:49 And who are the blockadeers?
Seb Member	Tue Nov 18 18:48:46 Harof: "Intel has technology developed in Israel, you buy Intel? You support jobs in Israel." That is a massive exaggeration. Israel is one of man of their tech and fab plants. In any case, my processor is AMD. Bite me. "It only radiates a few people in England." Yeah, do you understand what Hypocrisy is? My beef with Russia is their Government. I am opposed to the likes of Gazprom, but hey, you know what? I don't buy gas wholesale. "So you would not buy a product from Palestinians nor donate? That seems fair enough." Are you illiterate? I said, I don't buy goods from Israel/Palestine.
iii Member	Tue Nov 18 23:56:33 blockadeers should be americans included but they always were two-faced
Harof Member	Wed Nov 19 01:27:40 "my processor is AMD" You poor soul. "I said, I don't buy goods from Israel/Palestine." That was not a question for you to answer. I just clarified the extent. I was just asking questions here, no reason to get all defensive.
Asgard Member	Wed Nov 19 05:03:13 "Russia, again, is not a country quite so steeped in hypocrisy. " So let me get this straight... The only thing that bothers you is hypocricy. So, all Israel has to do it confess it is an oppressive occupier, and that's it - then you'd buy its products. It is all so crystal clear now... You, Seb, being a Brit, are so immersed in guilt of being a citizen of the most hypocritical country the world has ever seen, seek to redeem yourself by not buying things from countries that have a little hypocrisy in their policies. I feel sorry for you. I do.
dark waters Member	Wed Nov 19 05:12:42 And I can bet for that:Israel will comand and humiliate harder the GB in time!:))Just wait and see!:D
iii Member	Wed Nov 19 05:15:29 "The only thing that bothers you is hypocricy. " but the hypocricy is very important cause you manage to do crimes against humanity an hypocrisy is serving you well
iii Member	Wed Nov 19 05:18:19 yes, it is
iii Member	Wed Nov 19 05:19:52 mm... hmmmm
Seb Member	Wed Nov 19 05:47:41 Asgard: "The only thing that bothers you is hypocricy." No, but there is little point cutting off relations with a country that abuses it's own citizens and does not subscribe to Liberalism. History suggests reform comes through openness. However, Israel already subscribes to liberalism: you can see that in the manner in which it runs it's affairs inside the 1967 borders towards Jewish Israelis. It however consciously chooses, as a society (not the actions of an autocratic despot or the policies of an autocratic oligarchy, but the choices of a democratic government) to act differently. There is not benefit to be had in an exchange of ideas along with trade: Israel is already in possession of these ideas, but evidently is not willing to put them into full practice. Nor, like Russias Gas or China's manufactured goods, are Israel or Palestine's commodities indispensable. So, with the option available, I choose not to buy goods that probably contribute to you massacring each other and this status quo. Is Britain hypocritical? Only if you believe in sins of the fathers being inherited by the sons, and if you do, then Israel and the Jewish people are steeped in genocide from Biblical times (that, or one has to cast doubt as to the claim on the land in the first place).
dark waters Member	Wed Nov 19 07:27:07 Israel also use at every sluty-bloody-cowardy actions the assmericans...they are well trained for that as a stupid war-monkey to mentain the mess-power for the masons
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