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Utopia Talk / Politics / UK is a fascist shithole #369452
Rugian
Member
Fri Jul 19 13:45:23
Assault conservative politicians with milkshakes? Noble expression of political speech. Call a leftist politician a mean word? Straight to jail for you, and also Parliament personally reaches out to social media companies to have your accounts shut down. What a joke of a "First World" nation.

-----

Brexit activist James Goddard admits guilt over Anna Soubry 'Nazi' abuse

30-year-old from Cheshire also admits racially abusing police officer outside parliament

Jamie Grierson Home affairs correspondent

@JamieGrierson
Fri 19 Jul 2019 17.04 BST

A self-styled yellow vest activist has admitted harassing the remain-supporting MP Anna Soubry and racially abusing a police officer in a last-minute change of plea in court.

James Goddard, a 30-year-old pro-Brexit protester, filmed himself hurling abuse at the former Conservative MP and called her a Nazi after claiming she was a “traitor” for betraying the country’s vote to leave the EU in 2016.

He had previously denied one charge of intent to cause Soubry harassment, alarm or distress, using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour and one count of using racially aggravated behaviour towards PC Mindaugas Sciukas.

But at Westminster magistrates court on Friday, Goddard, of Timperley in Altrincham, changed his pleas to guilty. His co-defendant, Brian Phillips, 55, of Erith in south-east London, also changed his plea to guilty on a charge of harassment without violence.

Paul Jarvis, prosecuting, described how Soubry – now a member of the Independent Group for Change after defecting in February – was “very shaken” by what happened after a television interview she was giving on 7 January 2019 was interrupted by shouts from protesters.

She was surrounded by Goddard, Phillips and others as she made her way to the Palace of Westminster, footage played in court showed.

Jarvis said: “She found being described as a Nazi deeply offensive. It left her feeling angry.”

In her victim impact statement, small sections of which were read in court, Soubry said: “I was really intimidated, and I was very shaken by what happened, however I couldn’t show it on camera. I have developed a mechanism for cutting off large parts of my emotions.”

The guilty plea followed a truncated and occasionally chaotic session in court.

Goddard, who gesticulated throughout the case, stood up to address the chief magistrate, Emma Arbuthnot, as the hearing concluded, telling her he too had suffered following the actions of Soubry, stating he had not been violent and had not thrown a milkshake like other protesters, and added that he had also lost access to his daughter.

He was told he would have a proper chance to address the magistrates before his sentencing on Monday.

Soubry had been expected to give evidence in person during the hearing.

In a statement following the case, Soubry said: “I am pleased that both defendants have pleaded guilty to two public order offences and in relation to Goddard the additional offence of racially aggravated abuse of a police officer.

“They have admitted these crimes and accepted that their behaviour on two occasions outside parliament was wrong and unjustified. Everyone is entitled to go about their lawful business.

“In a democracy, people have a right to peaceful, lawful protest. No one has the right to intimidate and abuse anyone. I am particularly pleased justice has been done in relation to the police officer. Racist abuse is deplorable and should never be tolerated.”

Goddard, shouted and chanted at Soubry, pursued her, filmed her, called her “scum”, “Nazi” and “traitor”, and used other insulting language.

At a chaotic previous hearing Goddard repeatedly gesticulated to supporters in the gallery who chanted “shame on you” at the judge.

Goddard has previously argued that all Muslims should be removed from the UK, saying he wanted to “ban Islam from the west”.

A video emerged earlier this year of Goddard arguing that Islam should be removed from the UK.

He built up his profile by live-streaming confrontations to Facebook and seeking donations to finance his actions.

His Facebook and Paypal pages were removed following calls from the Speaker, John Bercow, and more than 100 MPs for a stronger response from the police and technology companies.

Goddard had previously posted anti-Islam statements on Gab, a social media site popular with the far right, and has supported Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, the founder of the English Defence League street movement.

http://www...ilty-over-anna-soubry-incident

Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jul 19 13:57:56
Im almost rooting for iran at this point.
hood
Member
Fri Jul 19 14:13:29
It's one thing to yell Nazi from afar. It's another to be up in personal space yelling continually. Especially when you document repeated instances of it to me used as evidence.

I don't see any mention of jail/prison. Would be ridiculous though.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Jul 19 14:26:30
The really heinous thing is seeing over one hundred lawmakers demand he be censored.

They should all be gassed.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jul 19 14:39:56
The establishment protects its own.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jul 19 14:41:47
Hood,

If theres one person who deserves to have abuse hurled on her, its Anna Soubry. That vile twat has managed to simultaneously betray her party her constituency and her country in her incessant efforts to sabotage Brexit. Fuck her.
hood
Member
Fri Jul 19 15:17:48
Rugian,

The opinions of Nazis are irrelevant.
obaminated
Member
Fri Jul 19 16:49:08
Yeah. Britain is definitely gonna fall into tyranny.
Paramount
Member
Fri Jul 19 16:59:29
Is this it? Will the war begin now?
Seb
Member
Sat Jul 20 08:00:08
Rugian:

The guy that threw a milkshake at Farrage was convicted of assault.

Goddard pleaded guilty after realising he would not face a prison sentence.

Rugian
Member
Sat Jul 20 09:12:44
Seb,

Yes, I believe that person was sentenced to a fine and community service. Really threw the book at him for that one.

You might also want to notify the multidues of journalists in the leftwing press that throwing milkshakes is an act of assault, given that they've virtually encouraged the practice (at least against conservative politicians - God help whoever tries to throw a milkshake at a leftist like, say, Anna Soubry).
delude
Member
Sat Jul 20 10:08:56
so both were convicted for their actions....and you're still unsatisfied.
Rugian
Member
Sat Jul 20 10:54:52
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
Forwyn
Member
Sat Jul 20 11:04:52
When there will undoubtedly be a discrepancy between sentencing, yeah, there's a reason to be unsatisfied.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sat Jul 20 19:52:06
"When there will undoubtedly be a discrepancy between sentencing, yeah, there's a reason to be unsatisfied."

Careful; that sounds like thoughtcrime, Forwyn.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Jul 20 22:14:42
So deeply ironic that Rugian references false equivalence ...
The Politician
Member
Sun Jul 21 06:14:26
"Assault conservative politicians with milkshakes? Noble expression of political speech."

These actions actually were condemned by various people include those from different and opposing political parties. Maybe to some who support this measure is an expression of noble cause. But typically this can be equivalent to where people supported the action of the white nationalist protester for running over people with their car. In which this would be a example of FE.

Back to the convictions; you have on one hand a person who assaulted someone with a milkshake, gets convicted. And the other who on a consistent basis has been harassing by passes prison as well but gets convicted, plus restitution as well, and you're complaining about what now?

You are aware this is basically the same thing that occurs in the the US, right? And decisions based upon the totality of the circumstances. I am sure if you take the time to research you could probably fill this forum of these incidents and express your synthetic outrage.
Chinese Democracy
Member
Sun Jul 21 06:33:57
Or that Rugian wants the person to be banned from all stores and restaurants that produce, sell, make any milkshake products, only then, only then he will be satisfied.
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 07:38:56
Rugian:

Yes. Because it was in the end only a milkshake.

And I can point you to oodles of articles referring to it as assault.

And chucking a milkshake is considered less dangerous than continued harassment, particularly of representatives doing their job (he's literally impeding the functioning of democracy), and this guy didn't plead guilty initially nor has he displayed remorse. So generally the sentence would be higher. Any news on what it is yet? I'd guess a suspended sentence.

Anna Soudbury, stout defender of austerity is a leftist?




Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 10:55:22
"(he's literally impeding the functioning of democracy)"

rofl

Kill yourself
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 12:22:45
Forwyn:

Yes, we know you fascists like the idea that representatives should be intimidated.

But it was not long ago that one of these brexiteer nutters shot and killed an MP.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 12:28:01
Yes, we know that mean words literally impede democracy. Kill yourself faggot
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 12:28:32
> Calls others fascists

> Wants others caged for mean words

Rofl kill yourself
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 12:54:15
^Thinks harassment should not be punishable.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 12:56:14
^thinks being mean in a public space is cageable harassment.
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 12:57:18
^doesn't understand that harassment can fall into any forum and still be punishable. Still incredibly stupid after all these years.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 12:58:54
^thinks being mean in a public space is cageable harassment. Still a cuck
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:01:46
^again demonstrates that he doesn't understand harassment can fall into any forum. Maintains the stupidity spectrum.
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:03:06
Forwyn:

No, words don't impede democracy. But stalking MPs in and out of their place of work and shouting threatening statements does.

What does this chap intend to do by doing this? He want's the MP in question - who has a job to represent her constituents - to feel intimidated and therefore change how she votes.

He is welcome to shout mean words all he likes. But he isn't free to physically detain MP's by surrounding them in order to do so.

"It's silly, in Britain, you can be arrested just for using your kitchen knife" says Forwyn, regarding a man who has used a kitchen knife to stab someone to death. "Fascists won't let you cut meat with a kitchen knife".
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:04:17
"It's terrible" says Forwyn "The fascists even arrested this guy for just driving down the street" he says after a man kills scored in a ram raid - "he was just driving along, and then the police shot him, dragged him from the vehicle, and took him to jail... all for just driving his van down the road".
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:04:39
I mean seriously forwyn, why even try this bullshit?

How stupid do you think people are?
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:07:17
This, from the guy who compared filming outside a court case for sex traffickers to the Boston bombers.

rofl Seb
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:08:18
"But stalking MPs in and out of their place of work"

AKA in an out of a public building
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:08:57
Also, harassment ends when threats are made. But hur, hur forwyn can't fathom that notion, just focuses on "muh Nazi comment" as if that was all that was done.
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:09:38
No forwyn, I compared you describing a deliberate attempt by a vigilante to harass a jury as "using their phone in public" to describing the Tsarnev's as "engaging in some street cooking".

That does not equate the Tsarnev's with Tommy Robinson, it equates the idiotic thing you said, with another thing that would be idiotic to say.

You really are spectacularly stupid aren't you.
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:09:39
Lol, forwyn doesn't think stalking can occur in public. What a stupid fucking moron.
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:10:50
The Houses of Parliament are not a public building Forwyn. They are tightly controlled, and indeed there is a specific criminal offence to obstruct access to it (albeit a particularly old one and drafted with the government in mind at the potential obstructor).
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:11:16
"vigilante"

> Calls others stupid

rofl kill yourself Seb
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:12:14
Ah, here's the issue. Seb thinks filming in public is harassment.

rofl

And look at Trolly polishing that same dick
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:12:45
^thinks public stalking can't occur. So stupid.
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:13:25
"Seb thinks filming in public is harassment. "

Lol, forwyn doesn't understand laws regarding harassment and stalking.

Way too stupid.
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:15:26
Forwyn:

Not generally, but in the case, yes, specifically. That indeed was his intent. "We've got footage of you and if you don't convict we can track you down".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48925356

"All of this has to be assessed in the context of the video as a whole, in which the respondent [Stephen Yaxley-Lennon] approves and encourages vigilante action."

Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:15:36
Not interested in your straw men, faggot. This will be the only time I respond to you.

Saying that following a public official while filming into and out of a workspace, and nowhere else, is not saying that stalking in public CANNOT occur - just that this is not stalking, unless you're an idiot.

But Seb already thinks filming is harassment on its own, so naturally saying mean words on top of it + following + representative, so more important than normal citizen = dastardly crime
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:16:18
Forwyn supports prejudicing a trial in such a way as to result in the release of pedophiles.

Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:17:01
Forwyn:

"Saying that following a public official while filming into and out of a workspace"

Is doing so repeatedly, and then surrounding her and not allowing her to leave also "totally legitimate"?
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:17:02
@Seb:

Me saying vaguely that a Muslim should sodomize you with a meat cleaver does not make me a meat cleaving sodomite. Try again.
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:18:32
"But Seb already thinks filming is harassment on its own"

I have said nothing that can support that statement Forwyn, but we have established you are spectacularly stupid and can't tell the difference between me likening a stupid statement by you to another stupid statement in order to highlight it's stupidity and likening the premise of the two statements themselves.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:23:22
"attempt by a vigilante to harass a jury"

Yes, you certainly did
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:26:52
And to answer your question, if the protesters actually blocked her, at least in the states this would be false imprisonment, an offense on its own, and doesn't need to be conflated with filming and saying mean words
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:30:39
forwyn is so stupid.
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:34:14
What we learned:

forwyn thinks

1. there is no such thing as stalking in public.

2. That filming in public cannot be considered stalking or harassment

3. Doesn't understand harassment laws.

4. claims strawmen but has been clearly presenting those line of arguments.

5. After all these years is incredibly stupid and is on the level of J.B.
Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:36:07
" and doesn't need to be conflated with filming and saying mean words "

forwyn stupid again, as he cannot grasp the concept of "...series of action." that is attached to such notion.

forwyn = stupid
Seb
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:40:51
Forwyn, either you are not availing yourself of the facts of the case, or you are just being idiotic.

Yaxley Lennon did not simply film in public, he did so with a large mob, shouting instructions at the jury, asking them if their were paedos, and put the whole lot online with a call to "vigilante action", his own words.

Yes, that's harassment.

He has a long pattern of doing this. He got into a twitter spat with a blogger, and spent three days with a mob of friends turning up at midmight to the wee hours of the morning banging on his doors and windows and threatening him, while recording, live streaming, and encouraging his supporters to get in on the act.

This is who this guy is. It's what he does. It's how he makes his money. He's like a light fascist version of Alex Jones, but without the business acumen.

Trolly McDick
Member
Sun Jul 21 13:42:21
No seriously, forwyn is JB level of stupid.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Jul 21 18:30:48
[Forwyn@Seb]: “Rofl kill yourself”

Please stop literally impeding democracy by telling Seb to kill himself. Thx!
;p
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 18:41:46
Yeah, trolling aside, let it not be forgotten that today's spat was instigated by Seb claiming that filming representatives and being mean to them LITERALLY IMPEDES THE FUNCTION OF DEMOCRACY

rofl
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 21 18:44:56
This is the guy who claims he would "track down" Turing's handler and call him a fuckwit, to help Turing avoid charges and lead Britain into a golden age of technological supremacy.

lul
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Jul 21 19:32:54
A true pillar of virtue!
Seb
Member
Mon Jul 22 02:08:31
Forwyn:

"Why is everyone so upset that Hitler took all Europe's Jews on holiday? He just put them in holiday camps."
Seb
Member
Mon Jul 22 14:07:09
Forwyn:

"spat was instigated by Seb claiming that filming representatives and being mean to them LITERALLY IMPEDES THE FUNCTION OF DEMOCRACY"

"She was surrounded by Goddard, Phillips and others as she made her way to the Palace of Westminster, footage played in court showed."

So, yeah, no, simply filming does not. Sustained harassment, obstruction of access to and from Westminster and intimidation - those do.
Seb
Member
Mon Jul 22 14:08:46
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack

Fliming civilians is a war crime now! Jeeze!
Forwyn
Member
Mon Jul 22 23:00:14
"if the protesters actually blocked her, at least in the states this would be false imprisonment, an offense on its own, and doesn't need to be conflated with filming and saying mean words"

But you continue doing you, boo. In your world of Boston bombers and Jew-gassers and murderous Apache pilots when people say mean words, I'm sure your life is one continuous bunny hop of Xanax dosing periods
Seb
Member
Tue Jul 23 01:04:19
Forwyn:

So you admit you are aware it wasn't simply filming.

What a fucking idiot.

And no, I'm not likening them to committing genocide. I'm dating your description of events is just stupidly inaccurate.

My god you suck at reading comprehension.
Go home. You are drunk.
Seb
Member
Tue Jul 23 01:20:06
"this would be false imprisonment,"

False imprisonment would require the protector to establish common intent by all members to detain her.

Further the CPS guidance says:

"If the detention was for the purpose of committing another indictable offence, and such an offence was committed, a count for the substantive offence will usually be enough."

Both harassment and false imprisonment carry five year maximum sentences.

Generally the UK does not indulge in the US peactice of attaching multiple charges for the same event to produce indictments as long as your arm.

So as much as we value and respect your status as an eminent expert on the law Forwyn, which is to say, not at all, it isn't really relevant. False imprisonment could be part of pattern of harassment.


Harassment is much easier to prove on an individual basis through pattern of behaviour.

Yes, allowing individuals to harass and physically intimidate MPs is an impediment to democracy. If they are not permitted to vote as the conscience dictates, they can't function as representatives to their constituents.

Trolly McDick
Member
Tue Jul 23 04:55:35
lulz

forwyn thinks he understands laws.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Jul 23 09:38:30
"I'm dating your description of events is just stupidly inaccurate."

And failing spectacularly.

Keep whining about Nazis and Boston bombers to try to describe the gulf between what these guys were doing and what you think they did.

"as much as we value and respect your status as an eminent expert on the law"

Lulz. I've never once deigned to try to say what the law actually is in the United Cuckdom. Your serpentine system of cuckery never fails to amuse or surprise me.

Also Seb: "Oh Noes! SuBvrT teh cRoWn!"

Lulx
Seb
Member
Tue Jul 23 13:04:31
Forwyn:

You've descended into total incoherence
Forwyn
Member
Tue Jul 23 13:09:40
You actually think the gulf between my description of the incident and your mental picture of the incident is roughly equivalent to comparing death camps to holiday camps

Look in a mirror, buddy
Seb
Member
Tue Jul 23 13:48:53
Forwyn:

Analogous in nature, obviously I've exaggerated for comic effect. I'm mocking you you pillock
Forwyn
Member
Tue Jul 23 14:05:30
It's lucky I'm not a representative, that would be an impediment to democracy
Trolly McDick
Member
Tue Jul 23 14:28:02
Luckily you're not a lawyer. You definitely don't know shit for laws.
Seb
Member
Tue Jul 23 17:18:00
No it wouldn't.
Seb
Member
Tue Aug 06 00:42:37
Rugian:

Most beef is bought as sliced cuts in supermarkets.

The EU has no internal tariffs and single regulation but trade between countries still shows up as imports and exports.

We export cattle for slaughter, butchery and processing in Europe (which is extremely cost effective in lower wage countries) then import the steaks etc which are higher value.

A huge chunk of value add is in the hanging butchery.

Needless to say the whole thing goes tits up when you introduce customs and SPS checks. Even neglecting the dead weight costs created, the time delay introduces has a big impact on the viability of the business model.
Dukhat
Member
Tue Aug 06 01:53:48
LoL at cuckservatives getting triggered defending real-life trolls. Like people can't tell the difference between real threats to free speech and a troll.

*yawn* 0/10
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