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Utopia Talk / Politics / Sebs Model Migrant Pushes 8yo Into Train
Forwyn
Member
Wed Jul 31 22:36:43
I'm sure hundreds of cucks from Waechtersbach will march to condemn this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49155293

An eight-year-old boy died and his mother was injured when a man pushed them in front of a high speed train at Frankfurt railway station in Germany.

An Eritrean man has been arrested over the attack, which happened on Monday morning.

Witnesses said the man deliberately pushed the boy and his mother on to the tracks before trying to run away. He was chased and stopped by passers-by.

The 40-year-old suspect attempted to push a third person but failed.

"The boy and his mother were pushed in front of an arriving train. The mother was able to save herself," a police spokeswoman said.

Police confirmed they had launched a murder inquiry. Investigators said they do not believe the suspect knew the victims and they are not yet aware of any motive.

The mother was taken to hospital for treatment but the extent of her injuries was not immediately clear.

Interior Minister Horst Seehofer cut short his summer holiday upon hearing of the attack and said he would meet leading security officials.

"The background to this heinous crime is still unclear," Mr Seehofer said.



tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jul 31 22:53:51
i saw Kevin Spacey do the same thing
Daemon
Member
Wed Jul 31 22:59:08
http://www...itrean-in-frankfurt/a-49805002

At the press conference in Berlin, Romann added that the Eritrean, who he named only as A., had applied for asylum in Switzerland on arrival in 2006 and it had been granted in 2008. Romann added that he had a steady job and was considered "well-integrated," but had recently caught the attention of Swiss police through a series of violent incidents.

Five days ago, the man threatened a neighbor with a knife, and had subsequently been the subject of an arrest warrant. Romann suggested this may have been the reason why he had traveled to Germany.
...
News agency DPA reported that prosecutors were also planning a psychiatric test. According to Swiss police, the suspect had been on sick leave from his job since the beginning of the year for mental health issues.
...
Seb
Member
Thu Aug 01 02:05:44
Sounds more like a Forwyn to me - a probably decent enough person before they were afflicted with a dangerous mental disorder.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Aug 01 10:22:50
How come these crime causing mental disorders happen so much more frequently with africans, seb?
Paramount
Member
Thu Aug 01 10:41:22
It is because they've got bigger lips and browner skin than Caucasians do. I thought this was established already in the media you are reading. So why ask? :P
Seb
Member
Thu Aug 01 16:29:34
Dude. A white guy pushed a chap under a train here a few weeks ago.

Higher frequency? [Citation needed]
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 02 05:48:45
Sammy
Because asylum criteria are rigerous. It dramatically increases the number of severely traumatized people.

Compare it to combat veterans if you like.

http://www...e-rate-young-us-veterans-jumps
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Aug 02 10:21:13
http://www...of-arrests/latest#by-ethnicity

Lol sebdumb.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 02 10:24:27
The black arrest rate plummeting 50% over the course of a few years suggests rather nefarious reasons for enhanced arrest rates that have only been partially remediated.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Aug 02 11:23:36
Or nefarious reasons for decreasing the black arrest rate now. Duh.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Aug 02 11:25:50
Lets not pretend that woke sebville is arresting africans for anything other than the most heinous crimes, and probably not even then.
Seb
Member
Fri Aug 02 12:43:22
Sam:
That just proves the police are just arresting black people more frequently. Clear proof of prejudice.

Forwyn
Member
Fri Aug 02 13:00:29
^rofl
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 02 13:00:42
Seb
You have to like the elequent point I made about the decrease in black arrests. It fell by 50%. How is that possible without assuming police forces have put some effort into being less blatantly prejudicial?

Sammy
That is not even trolling. It is CT nuttery.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 02 13:01:52
Forwyn
Why is it hard for you to accept that there is serious issues with structural prejudice. Crow laws are not that far back in the past.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Aug 02 13:04:50
Oh, I have no doubt that individuals can still harbor unconscious biases that affect their performance in the field, particularly in regards to minorities. How much of that is hard-coded and how much is socialized is up for debate.

It's just hilarious to see Seb, master of "You can't imply causation without acknowledging dozens of complex variables", spouting that one single data point, arrest rates, is PROOF of prejudice. rofl
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 02 13:07:27
Arrest rates is not a single datapoint. Though I suppose I agree to a point as I bolstered the thought with the pretty extreme decrease in arrest rates.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 02 13:09:45
Structural racism is not a "rotten apple theory". It means that society is constructed in a manner that is detrimental to certain people.

Forwyn
Member
Fri Aug 02 13:29:58
Certainly; you or I may have a tough go of it in Eritrea.

Majority populations build societies that favor them; as has occurred throughout all of human history.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Aug 02 17:47:34
Jergul explain why africa never advanced as far as other civilizations despite having more people living there longer? I suppose white police officers must have gone back in time to oppress them?

"That just proves the police are just arresting black people more frequently. Clear proof of prejudice."

Or maybe, just maybe, africans commit more crimes?


Seb
Member
Fri Aug 02 19:51:51
Forwyn:

Oh for fuckssakes. Can't you spot snark when you see it?

Of course the point is trust there are huge numbers of variables you need to control for. I've been saying that for decades.

The whole point is that info cannot tell between the two hypotheses.

If it's got to the point where everyone is too fucking stupid to even follow snark, I really think you guys need to fuck off somewhere else and let the grown ups talk in peace.
Seb
Member
Fri Aug 02 19:52:31
Sam Adams:
Guns. Germs. Steel.
Rugian
Member
Fri Aug 02 20:05:49
To everyone that has participated in this thread thus far:


It might be worth actually checking jergul's 50% claim.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 02 23:29:33
Ruggy
It is from the link Sammy provided.
Rugian
Member
Fri Aug 02 23:53:15
jergul,

Might want to double-check that.
jergul
large member
Sat Aug 03 01:00:46
61 to 35. Close enough.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Aug 03 07:37:21
Jergul
How lucky am I that I was not traumatized, by sitting in a police holding cell with my mother and 2.5 year old sister, all of us crying the entire night, awaiting our deportation. Only to be saved in the airport by a lawyer from the immigration office. I think between the three of us we have pushed 0 people infront of trains. And my dear poor uncle who was rejected twice befor finally being approved, he has killed 1, 2.. 0 people.

This type of resiliance, it might be heritable.
Seb
Member
Sat Aug 03 08:17:43
Yes, your threat of deportation is the same as, say, my Kurdish friend whose brother was disappeared, was thrown in a military jail, tortured, repeatedly subjected to mock execution.

If only he had your genes. If only he had your resilience.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Aug 03 09:19:13
I have my wifes family, similair type of hell, their mother was married away at 13 to a 40+, brother conscripted to fight as peshmerga. Still 0 people murdered. Jergul pointed to the process, not the background story.

It is dangerously naive to think that complex things like behavior and in this case mindless violence is the result of a vetting process.

Good reasons to believe both violence and reiliance towards commiting violence are in part genetic. Hundreds of thousands of people go through this process and a fraction of them, if that, commit violence.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Aug 03 09:25:22
It isn’t their specific ethnic genetic make up I am talking about, if that helps you over this hurdle. It applies to everyone as evident by research into Swedish violence stats over decades, prior to large influx of immigrants. A small percentage of people 2-3% commited 63% of violent offences. Just that European immigriation policy and especially Swedish policy rewards the people who are at the bottom of the socio economic ladder. Where you normally find violent people and the most violent people. So you are selecting for these kind of people without understanding it.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Aug 03 09:33:17
It is so bad in Sweden now that people don’t even wait for permanent residency before they commit crimeS. Because they know the Swedish system will rarely disadvantage them for these acts. They walk into the immigration office and yell ”I will rape your daughter”. Well your honor my client has gone through hell, he sat in Assads prison and was tortured, we can’t deport him, he will be executed and he is remorseful now. Basically that is how easy it is to game the system, do something horrible where you come from, flee to Sweden and risking the death penalty you can’t be sent back! TADAAA! Congratulations you can practically do what you want while the politicians are discussing whether increased maximum sentences are effective and humane.
Daemon
Member
Sat Aug 03 09:56:17
What if had simply developed a brain tumor?
Rugian
Member
Sat Aug 03 10:40:34
Jergul,

And whites went from 24 to 11, Asians from 21 to 12, mixed from 43 to 25, and other from 17 to 9.

Your argument is literally predicated on cherry picking.
jergul
large member
Sat Aug 03 10:51:30
Nimi
Asylum policy does select for severely traumatized who are in turn more likely to be violent.

The 2-3% actual violent offenders come from a pool many times larger that is of high risk of violent behavior (I am not sure waiting in a holding cell qualifies).

There is some evidence that severe trauma can activate switches in genes, so there is that genetic element.

I have found the heritability argument unconvincing so far.

jergul
large member
Sat Aug 03 10:54:38
Ruggy
That simply further supports the argument. If crime is genetic, then why is it decreasing across the board?
Rugian
Member
Sat Aug 03 11:10:07
Jergul,

There are literally dozens of variables that could result in an across the board decline. I could of course start with austerity-driven cuts to police numbers.

In regards to blacks specifically, I could point to leftwing activist campaigns that have made police officers more hesitant to enforce the law. We saw something like that in Chicago, where establishment media and BLM thugs pretty much forced the police department to put new rules in place that turned minority arrests into a potentially career-ending move for officers.

As a result, homicides jumped to their highest numbers in two decades.

Reductions in black arrests aren't necessarily a sign that officers are reducing unnecessary arrests, but a sign that officers are abdicating their responsibility to make arrests that should happen.
Rugian
Member
Sat Aug 03 11:19:52
Although in the UK's case, such a reading may not actually be warranted. Looking at the historic data, rates of black arrests have progressively gone from just over double the overall average in 2006 to almost triple today. Which suggests that blacks have gradually become more, not less, of a proportional threat to the public order.

The fun thing about statistics is that you can always get them to agree with you if you squint hard enough.
jergul
large member
Sat Aug 03 13:13:50
Ruggy
Sure, if crime is not genetic, then all kinds of things can cause it to change.
Rugian
Member
Sat Aug 03 13:15:44
That's not what I said.
Forwyn
Member
Sat Aug 03 13:50:39
Oh, I almost forgot about my OP zinger.

"Hundreds of people have gathered in the town of Waechtersbach to condemn racist violence after an Eritrean man was shot by a German national "due to the colour of his skin", according to police.

The 26-year-old Eritrean was brought to hospital in serious condition on Monday but was now stable, local media reported on Tuesday.

--

The perpetrator, who later shot himself in the head, appeared to have chosen his victim at random, the spokesman added.

Police on Monday found the "apparently lifeless" body of the suspected shooter in a car in a neighbouring town. He was later declared dead in hospital.

--

But investigators were not able to link the 55-year-old shooter to any particular far-right nationalist group."
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Aug 03 14:00:43
can we all agree Eritrea sounds like a fictional place?
jergul
large member
Sat Aug 03 14:15:06
"The name Eritrea is derived from the ancient Greek name for the Red Sea (Ἐρυθρὰ Θάλασσα Erythra Thalassa, based on the adjective ἐρυθρός erythros "red"). It was first formally adopted in 1890, with the formation of Italian Eritrea (Colonia Eritrea).[26] The name persisted over the course of subsequent British and Ethiopian occupation, and was reaffirmed by the 1993 independence referendum and 1997 constitution.[27]"

Colonia Eritrea sounds even more fictional. As is fitting for a name made up not that long ago.
Daemon
Member
Sat Aug 03 14:25:15
Forwyn, many people gathered at Frankfurt main station, too, so what?

http://www...fff_trauer1_4c-hp2HDnjISf9.jpg
Forwyn
Member
Sat Aug 03 14:55:17
Did they condemn racist violence?
Daemon
Member
Sat Aug 03 15:14:14
Was it a racist attack?
Forwyn
Member
Sat Aug 03 15:51:59
About as much evidence for it in either case - that is to say, none
Daemon
Member
Sun Aug 04 04:12:56
There is some evidence, automatic translation from a German article:


http://www...chuetze-waechtersbach-100.html
...
In his favourite pub, the "Martinseck" in Biebergemünd-Kassel, the 55-year-old seems to have announced the crime in advance. According to hr information, K. bragged about it before and after the shooting of the Eritrean. The man is said to have declared in the morning that he was now shooting a refugee.
...
After Roland K. had left the "Martinseck" for a second time on Monday afternoon, he shot himself in the immediate vicinity in his silver Toyota. Earlier, according to information from the hr, he himself dialed the emergency call of the police and announced further acts. He is said to have said literally that he will now shoot a half-black man and then himself.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Aug 04 09:30:19
Seems retroactive, but carry on
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Aug 05 11:29:35
>>Asylum policy does select for severely traumatized who are in turn more likely to be violent.<<

It does. But they were already traumatized before they arrived at the border. Their lot in life may even have been the result of their trauma. It's horrible because it's true.

>>The 2-3% actual violent offenders come from a pool many times larger that is of high risk of violent behavior (I am not sure waiting in a holding cell qualifies).<<

The point of this was a small percentage of the population commit most of the violent crimes. This is true in Syria, Iran and Afghanistan.

>>There is some evidence that severe trauma can activate switches in genes, so there is that genetic element.<<

Don't know what specifically you are taling, this isn't "epigenetics" again is it? It still doesn't explain why the same ethnicities in the USA are actually quite successful by every measure. Stringent and selective policy does.

>>I have found the heritability argument unconvincing so far.<<

For violence? I think the numerous peer reviewed papers are quite solid ground to work from. i.e there is a large genetic component to violence. This is independent of ethnicity, as the the best studies utilize the treasure trove of data that are the Scandinavian registries.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Aug 05 11:33:50
Mind you, I am not advocating policy based on this. If a country wants to be humanitarian and do this, they should. They just need to be aware of the facts and that anti social behavior, violence etc. are not easy to fix. There will be no fix if one does not pay attention to biological data.

I am truly sad that some people have internalized the horrors of the past to such a degree that the only "solution" that comes into their mind when we talk about heritability is eugenics. We can do better.
jergul
large member
Mon Aug 05 12:51:40
I meant genes switched on by trauma do not seem to be inherited in that state.

In a wider sense - a genetic explanation would have trouble explaning why violence rates vary over time and why it is generally very low for all groups.

If we discount the glaring obvious y component associated with violent behaviour of course. Not that I am advocating eugenics simply be pointing out this obvious fact.

Environmental factors have far stronger explanatory power.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Aug 06 05:21:40
>>I meant genes switched on by trauma do not seem to be inherited in that state.<<

Still not sure what phenomena you are talking about, but epigenetics are heritable by definition.

>>In a wider sense - a genetic explanation would have trouble explaning why violence rates vary over time and why it is generally very low for all groups.<<

This would make sense if anyone thought the genome are all the answer, we know this isn't the case. It is just the largest systematic factor, as it effects everyone. Unlike your specific culture, the school you went to, the neighborhood you grew up in. These are all non systematic factors. When studied on their own they account for 5-15% of the variation.

I think we had a study on the effect of the school on SAT scored, it was in that order 0.15. Meanwhile heritable factor was 0.6.

>>If we discount the glaring obvious y component associated with violent behaviour of course. Not that I am advocating eugenics simply be pointing out this obvious fact.<<

Not by pointing out the obvious that no one disagrees with, it is when you advocate for selective abortions that things get wonky. But the comment was in general, many people, for good reasons, can't get past the past. It is IMO an obstacle towards progress.

This "y component" is it environmental? It is of course way too blunt, the overwhelming majority of people with a Y chromosome are not violent. An interesting factoid is that women with higher than normal testosterone levels are more prone to violence, to be in sports and to be gay.

>>Environmental factors have far stronger explanatory power.<<

On the surface, depending on the scope and because genetic factors go unnoticed and are difficult to observe, anyone can go to a poor neighborhood and draw conclusions. The explanations are inflated and usually disregard the fact that genes can also create/choose the environment. We have inherent proclivities and predispositions, some of them may get us in trouble.

Environmental explanations can have strong explanatory power, but they are often exclusive to this group, this place, this decade; they are non-systematic. I mean an environmental factor could be random chance. You can't study that and apply it broadly.

Now tell me, was my usage of the infamous semi-colon correct? :)
jergul
large member
Tue Aug 06 06:38:33
There is a convincing theory that some genes are switched on by severe trauma. It is less convincing that the switched on gene is inherited in an active state.

The genetic factor is far higher than 0.6 if simply just look at the y chromosone.

Suggesting that women make rational choices is advocating logic. Nothing more.

The y component is almost invariably violent, but not close to consistently violent. For triggers, see environmental factors included hormon exposure.

Genetic factors are in other words not hard to observe.

The varations in environmental outcomes suggest that the genetic has little to no relevance unless you consider gender.

If you want to troll with semi-colons; do it properely.
jergul
large member
Tue Aug 06 06:39:40
Though I acknowledge the compliment; inherent to all imitation.

Rofl
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 07 07:09:33
>>There is a convincing theory that some genes are switched on by severe trauma. It is less convincing that the switched on gene is inherited in an active state.<<

Does everyone have this gene or the variation of this gene? Do the variations repond differently to the Environment, does other genotypes neutrilize it etc. Whatever phenomena you are talking about, presupposes genes, that are inherited. Whether the environment (which starts in the cell wall) has an effect, is not the point of disagreement.

>>The genetic factor is far higher than 0.6 if simply just look at the y chromosone.<<

Only a fraction of people with Y chromosome commit violent crimes, so no, you have to look for specific genes. If this was your diagnostics tool, it would be horrible, 98+% wrong.

But atleast you seem to understand (a crude one) that there is a genetic component to violent crimes. One step at a time.

>>Suggesting that women make rational choices is advocating logic. Nothing more.<<

It is the same logic used by any group to eradicate another. You have it in jihadis and nazis, but also in feminazis jihading against men. C'est la vie.

>>The y component is almost invariably violent<<

You have a poor relationship to violence. Violence isn't all bad. We need violence, we just don't need the illegal forms of it.

>>Genetic factors are in other words not hard to observe.<<

Establishing a causal relationship between a gene or a cluster of genes is actually very difficult. I have no idea what you are talking about. You are stuck in a loop friend.

Are you familiar with the term "refrigerator parents"? It was a socialization theory in the 40-50 to explain the cause of autism. Parents, but honestlt mostly mothers, got blamed (themselves autistic) of being cold and emotionless, raising their children much like a refrigerator would, cold and only really supplying food. Apparently this theory is still popular in France.

This is quite horrible considering that the most recent evidence suggests the _cause_ of autism is largely genetic and heritable, 0.8. I can only imagine the stigma and shame that those parents and specifically mothers had to go through.

>>The varations in environmental outcomes suggest that the genetic has little to no relevance unless you consider gender.<<

Anything peer reviewed? Please do, but make sure it factors in heritability otherwise we can not establish causality. In essence this study would show low heritability and high environmental factor. I am all eyes.
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 07 10:10:13
Nimi
You should read up on it if you want the specifics. I found the theory credible, but I am not terribly interested in it.

"The y component is almost invariably violent, but not close to consistently violent. For triggers, see environmental factors included hormon exposure."

Sometimes, correlation is good enough. I am not attempting to establish causation beyond statistical observations.

If xy, then expect all kinds of odd things that would easily qualify as a pathological syndrom if we chose to frame things that way.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 07 11:33:06
Read plenty since I am interested, said all that needs to be said about it and the standard of evidence needed, invited you to posts studies.

”correlation is good enough”

Not when it is an order of magnitude worse than flipping a coin, that isn’t correlation, that’s jergulogic. I mean it is the kind of result you expect if you told an autistic person to solve world hunger. Kill all the people, bam no more world hunger!
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 07 14:20:22
Much as I have always admired the tobacco industry and climate denier style of argument, I think I will simply rest on:

"Sometimes, correlation is good enough. I am not attempting to establish causation beyond statistical observations."

You may want to rewrite your last paragraph. It came across as gibberish.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 07 15:10:34
I am more interested in the studies that radicalized you than rehashing things you have difficulty understanding.
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 07 15:18:24
Nothing rad about statistics.

Do we ever have "guess the gender" competitions here?

We don't because the safe bet is always male. Better than 9 times of 10 in fact.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 07 16:17:34
Ditto for the Noble prize, actually I think it is higher 95%.

So, I am interested in diagnosing which men are predisposed to be criminally violent based on genetic markers and treat them. Without aborting anyone and especially not the ones that go on and win noble prizes.

Everything you say makes perfect sense and is very rational, provided the mental functions of someone with autism, wrapped inside the femininazi jihad against the patriarchy. It even makes sense that stats would have radicalized someone like that!
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 07 18:49:38
Nimi
lulz. The drama.

And the dystopia inherent to screening for violent potential is mind-boggling.

Longer human lifespans and current western birthrates are the actual solutions.

Peak violence is male between say 18 and 36. The fewer males in that age bracket as a proportion of humanity, the less violence in society as a whole.

All other things being equal.
jergul
large member
Wed Aug 07 18:54:56
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_principle

Do you have any idea of how that ratio changes if you assume full reproductive control?

The evolutionary sure strategy would be having offspring of a gender that has full reproductive control.

In case you wanted the rational basis for what I have said earlier, many, many times.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Aug 08 02:41:07
A rational basis is a prerequisite for any jihad. You think they chopp heads willy nilly?

Full reproductive control, like say an artificial womb. As retarded as this jihad of your is, it depends on technology and so two can jihad and be retarded :)
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Aug 08 03:32:43
And when we have the artificial sex dolls with the artificial wombs and 95% of the noble prizes that facilitate the artificial sex dolls with the wombs, there really is no need for women, at all. Go ahead I dare you name 3 things we need women for that isn't sex and making babies, that you couldn't get from your male friends.

The constant nagging about failing to achieve not even half as much as men. All the zelous "male" allies in their shiny armor, all gone. And then, we can finally we can have peace and enjoy the silence for a moment.

An artificial solution to an artificial problem!
jergul
large member
Thu Aug 08 03:46:02
Nimi
What an insane comeback.

What kind of future are you imagining where there is unregulated access to breeding vats?

And any regulation at all would still mean that the rational, evolutionary choice would remain the gender with inherent reproductive capacity.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Aug 08 04:15:16
"What an insane comeback."

I can only do so much with the material you give me.

There are no more women in my version of the future. We don't rely on inherent capacity for something so trivial like carrying a human fetus. Even now we are automating manual labor, duh. Are you saying we should keep women around for nostalgic purposes? Seems cruel.


jergul
large member
Thu Aug 08 06:00:39
You can't get to there from here.

But amusing how quickly you gave up on evolutionary theory.

Because yes, theory suggests the balance does change in a very fundamental way with the advent of reproductive freedom.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Aug 08 06:13:35
"But amusing how quickly you gave up on evolutionary theory."

What amused me was you thinking a 95% error rate is "good enough correlation". Less amusing is that you will not let go of your feminazi eugenic dreams. Taken together, there is very little reason for a sane person to keep talking about evolutionary theory.

Don't worry I will try again and give you a blank slate, we will see how you progress. I never shut the door, I never give up on people, not even a feminazi jihading.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Aug 08 06:24:02
>>Because yes, theory suggests the balance does change in a very fundamental way with the advent of reproductive freedom.<<

No doubt, that when we can have sex dolls with artificial wombs, things will never be the same. Birth Control was nothing in comparison. Just look at the feminist reactions to the current sex dolls and legalized prostitution. Holland and Germany is among the least "equal" EU countries lower than OECD average, in part because the fucking markets is an open and legal market. There is no pussy monopoly requiring a relationships or pick up skills. You just go in pay money and bam back to work.

The future will be horrible for you, especially if this female supremacy nonsense you are peddling gains any tractions. You and your inferior understanding of human affairs will not like the counter reaction to that.



jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 04:57:41
It still makes no difference.

Did you know that the y chromosone is the fastest evolving set of genes in the human body? Fully 30% divergent from chimp y chromosone right now. On a linear projection, it will shed its last dna and become inert in 150 million years. Which may seem like a long time, but is actually not that much on an evolutionary scale (evolutionary change is measured in 10s of thousands generations).

This does suggest a degree of evolutionary non-viability. At least in humans.

Imagine a society where healthy lifespans is in excess of 150 years. Excess mortality in any year would shave a significant amount of time off any of your off-spring that happened to have risk prone behavioural patterns.

Why would your nobel laureates with breeding capable sex dolls even consider creating males?

It is not rational. Doing so would suggest poor nuturing abilities.

The point is not to suggest that there will ever be 0 males, but just to observe that we can reasobably expect a significant shift in gender ratios in a very short time (evolutionary speaking).
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 05:27:47
I believe Aeros brought up the myth about the disappearing Y chromose years ago.

This is very low quality. Read more and we shall likely touch this subject again.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 05:57:56
Nothing low quality beyond the assumption of linearity.

Shredding genes is a pretty clear indication of evolutionary maladaption.

As if mortality statistics across the board were not indication enough.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 06:08:05
Assumption of linearity, disregard for studies that show the shrinking has stopped, and the stats showing that mortality rates between men and women is shrinking. I could go on, but we would get technical far beyond the capacity of someone who thinks a 95% error rate is correlation.

Try not to only read things that confirm the your feminazi framework. It will take practice and better googling skills, but I believe in you.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 06:33:12
Studies that show loss of genes have stopped have the exact same flaw as the assumption of linearity.

Research into heart disease paid off. Women began smoking more (and are currently 20% of the world's 1 billion smokers).

But sure, it will decrease a bit more as smoking is phased out and lifestyle choices like eating less meat become mainstream.

But we all know that risk behavior is mostly a male thing relatively speaking.

I would not count on projecting explainable changes if I were you. That would be the same mistake we referred to by assuming linearity.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 06:36:40
Here is a thought experiment for you. Lets assume absolute medical advances. Humans die 3 things:

1. Killed by other humans
2. Accidents
3. Suicide

How many times longer would women live than men?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 06:50:28
"Studies that show loss of genes have stopped have the exact same flaw as the assumption of linearity."

Nope. We can add assumptions of direction and assumption that no other chromosome or mechanism will take the place of the Y chromosome over these 300 millions years of yours. Keep reading.

>>How many times longer would women live than men?<<

With only suicide making the top causes of death for men, I guess 6 weeks on average. Maybe days.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 06:51:17
Oh wait accidents too, make it 6 months to 6 weeks.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 06:59:47
Nimi
150 million years. You are referring to dated studies.

Thank you for demonstrating you do not understand statistics. In the thought experiment, there are only 3 causes of death. So everyone would live for centuries. Except women. Who would live for thousands of years.

Interesting because it suggests that medical advances will favour women simply because risk behavior will become an ever more important cause of death.

And we all know what genetic composition is prone to risk behaviour.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 07:01:09
Now here is a thought experiment. If women didn't suck at suicides and had to do all the driving and dangerous jobs (since there are no more men and men do most of the driving and dangerous jobs) how would that effect the numbers? 90% of all work related deaths are men.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 07:07:00
>>And we all know what genetic composition is prone to risk behaviour.<<

We do, but someone doesn't understand there is variation in the genome and in behavior. Thanks for demonstrating how easily you can get lost inside a shoe box.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 07:07:33
Workplace incidents accounted for 1/500th of deaths in the US last year.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 07:08:38
Nimi
Are you arguing that sexuality is not binary? And suggesting I thought it was?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 07:14:31
Yes, and accidents is the 5-6th? leading cause of death in women. Risk taking is an inherent part of our species and needed to not stagnate, it is a game that pays off at the population level, so women need to pick up the slack.

6 months to 6 weeks, is probably generous.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 07:19:10
>>Are you arguing that sexuality is not binary? And suggesting I thought it was?<<

Missed it by light years. I am saying that considering how poorly you understand what you are talking about assuming things hundreds of millions of years in the future about genomic evolution is probably above your inherent intelligence. We have species that change sex and species that are sexually dimorphic without a Y chromosome.

Jergulogic while admirable only takes you that far.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 07:32:52
We have strayed off the path abit, but this is all straight forward. Solve stupidity, whether you think IQ tests are real or not, what is real is that some people are born stupid, low impulse control and predisposed to substance abuse. These are diseases. My solution is treat them like any other disease and use genetic markers to screen, your solution is what Scandinavians tried to do your people. They didn't gas you, they just sterilized you. They are not complete barbarians after all.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 07:38:07
Disregarding adhoms. Wait. There was nothing left.

You solution sounds an awfully lot like fundamentally changing the gender balance.

Or was your thought that failed male specimens get do-overs until they get it right?

Admirable as that might be, the easiest way to adjust for stupid (risk prone behaviour that causes increases in overall mortality) is simply to adjust by gender.

jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 07:40:54
I should hasten to repeat that I am merely suggesting we are on the threshold of fundamental changes to gender balance. Not that there will ever be 0 men.

I do applaud your idea of simply fixing men. That would be nice.

But as it stands, it is simply not good naturing to foster males if you could foster females instead.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 08:23:57
"Disregarding adhoms."

It is descriptive of your level of understanding and intelligence. It isn't an attack on you as a human being.

"I should hasten to repeat that I am merely suggesting we are on the threshold of fundamental changes to gender balance."

Yes we have more males than females and many of the men who don't find mates and die childless will welcome the artificial womb technology, which is 10-20 year away.

The summary being you are wrong at a very low quality level. i.e stupid, which is a technical description, not an ad hom.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 08:32:30
Ad-homs are a waste of your time and undermine your argument.

Anything that makes it hard to parse your point does.

Men about to die childless for lack of mates are far outnumbered by women their age.

And it still does not matter (even if we accept that unregulated womb technology will become commonplace) The rational choice would be to breed girls.

You are trying to frame this as a gender war, when in fact it just is a question of people making rational choices.

Sure, people will still make poor choices. But the gender balance is on the threshold of fundamental change.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 09:22:12
I disagree, I simply think you are dumb and uninformed. In addition to some rather horrible ideas on how to solve social problems, a passive aggressive form of eugenics. These are descriptions. Difficulty parsing what I find problematic with what you are saying confirms the description. I mean I was willing to leave it that and advised you to go read more and read outside your bubble since we would no doubt visit this subject again.

>>The rational choice would be to breed girls.<<

Yes, finally a sentence I can sort of agree with. This is rational for you, contingent on your mental framework, your values and ideological foundation. Not for everyone, for some people the opposite is the rational choice, and people like me, who view this broadly, think you are as dumb and uneducated as the Indian couple who abort their second female baby.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 09:35:57
Read. No substance.

Anyway, I was wrong when I said "on the threshold" The gender balance has been shifting for more than 100 years.

USA 1900
1.04 males per female

USA 2019 (est)
0.96 males per female
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 09:53:05
Largely explained by fewer death in child birth.

Selective abortions favor one sex globally. Selective analysis of data is at the root of low quality thinking.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 10:11:06
Largely explained by medical advances you say. That was one of my thesis.

The rate seems to be decreasing by about 0.03 per decade currently. Sounds about right.

The actual driving mechanism would rationally be eggs frozen in a women's early 20s and semen sorted by gender.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 10:16:27
Stating obvious things and reaching bad conclusions is your thesis. I see tha same assumption of linearity that got you to 12.5% 2020. It isn’t your fault the the world is dynamic and things beyond your capacity to factor in happen every day.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 15:09:06
There is at least 1% chance a year of a civilization ending event, so I doubt we will get very far along this particular projection.

The 12.5 by 2020 was based on an assumption of fiscal responsibility dictated by market mechanisms.

But breaking capitalism was fun to watch too.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Aug 09 17:55:56
Yes I remember, you thought you had invented the pie chart mechanics. Poor countries get richer so the richer countries share of the pie decreases. Truly ground breaking stuff. Alas, no one could have predicted that America and The Fed would go aggressive to protect their economic power and global standing.

Sort of like the first order thinking, assumed linearity prediction you are making now. You read some stats and connected the dots in a straight line and it all looks neat and pretty. So, as long as no one gets aggressive and tries to protect their power and social standing, as long as nothing you did not think about happens, you got this one I think.
jergul
large member
Fri Aug 09 18:21:07
Nimi
The crux of the argument was:

1. A trend towards global price harmonization.
2. US debt was growing way too fast.

Nothing has changed in other words. We will see if my timeline is off or not. Still another 17 months to go.

The prediction was never linear btw. Currency fluctuations don't work that way.

Were you also inferring that someone will aggressively attempt to maintain an arbitrary gender ratio?

How is that supposed to play out?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Aug 10 04:36:38
Well, as long as we accept that this is all a hypothetical dystopia dream you are trying fulfill. Where women have taken over and we live to be thousands of years and men are soya eating sperm donors. Me and my gang of misfits would come and aggressively put an end to these ideas and those carry them.
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