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Utopia Talk / Politics / Peak TDS reached?
Rugian
Member
Mon Sep 23 13:39:06
Bill Weld suggests Trump could face execution over Ukraine phone call

http://www...d-trump-ukraine-phone-call.amp

Julius Caesar started the Roman civil war in order to prevent being fucked by his enemies at the end of his legal term as governor of Gaul. Will Trump need to resort to similar drastic but necessary measures in order to not face the death penalty when his term as president ends?
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Sep 23 13:56:07
yes. And Donald shouldn't wait until the end of his term. Why wait until Weld and others execute him? Thats the real problem, cucks like Rugian pretend they want the president to act decisively but at some imaginary point, not right the fuck now

No more half measures, Walter
Paramount
Member
Mon Sep 23 13:56:49
If he starts a civil war he might be killed.

If he doesn’t, he might go to jail.

Looks like his days may be numbered.
hood
Member
Mon Sep 23 14:06:58
Do people not recognize how retarded the phrase TDS is? Did y'all let dukhat come up with it or something?
Rugian
Member
Mon Sep 23 15:35:35
What's wrong with TDS?

Paramount - fortunately, he has millions of patriotic, and more importantly, well-armed, supporters behind him.
obaminated
Member
Mon Sep 23 16:49:15
TDS works, not everyone wants to take the time to type out trump derangement syndrome
hood
Member
Mon Sep 23 17:03:32
So uh, that's precisely what I was calling retarded, mt. Not the acronym, the actual fucking catch phrase.
kargen
Member
Mon Sep 23 17:51:08
Next election is 14 months away. Congress can't get anything out of committee in less than two years. The voters will settle this long before congress can.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Sep 23 19:08:58
if Fox News & the Republicans weren't all dishonest traitors this would be settled sooner

Trump has all but admitted to what has been reported, & it is 100% clear abuse of power

and any (Fox) story suggesting Joe Biden needs investigating for wanting the prosecutor gone (which Trump claimed was illegal) is total garbage when the known facts are the Ukrainian people, the European Union, the IMF, others ALL wanted him gone (& that investigation into the company Hunter Biden worked for wasn't even active)

fuck Fox News... their collaborators should all be executed too


...peace out!
kargen
Member
Mon Sep 23 20:36:19
What abuse of power? He asked for an investigation. He didn't promise or even suggest anything in return.
Toss in that the whistle blower didn't actually hear the phone call and what this amounts to is a whole lotta nothing probably on both sides.
kargen
Member
Mon Sep 23 20:39:52
Oh and Biden will be out before the primaries reach Nevada and even if the Republicans in congress cooperated with this silly impeachment idea it still wouldn't move forward anywhere near quick enough to remove President Trump from office.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Sep 23 21:33:26
you feel Trump had legitimate good faith concerns about corruption by Biden? please detail

also it's bad enough from what we know already, but if confirmed he wanted Giuliani involved in the investigation, how fucking absurd is that? the U.S. supposedly concerned about corruption so send in Trump's personal attorney...
Forwyn
Member
Mon Sep 23 23:40:06
"for wanting the prosecutor gone"

Yeah, that's all he did, was want him gone, it's clearly a thought crime

fucking lol
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Sep 24 00:41:27
so you feel despite the Ukrainian people, the Ukrainian parliament, the European Union, +more all wanting the prosecutor gone for not being active on corruption... Biden's secret motive was he was worried the guy doing poorly at investigating corruption, might restart a dormant corruption investigation into a company that his son worked for where nothing was ever found...

or do you have a different point that actually has some relevance?
kargen
Member
Tue Sep 24 02:03:45
"you feel Trump had legitimate good faith concerns about corruption by Biden? please detail"

I didn't say that. Your mind may have read that though in your current state.

jergul
large member
Tue Sep 24 02:52:02
Kargen
The GOP has 20 seats up for grabs in 2020 senate, compared to 13 for the Democrats.

The electorate may decide one thing, and the impeachment process immediately thereafter something else.
jergul
large member
Tue Sep 24 02:53:27
electoral college* Its been a while since the actual popular vote gave a majority to a republican.
Dukhat
Member
Tue Sep 24 09:35:57
Do you know almost 20 years has passed since many of us started posting here? And Rugian is just as stupid as he was the first day.

That's some kind of special accomplishment.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Sep 24 11:27:32
@ "I didn't say that"

well, what do you think he wants investigated?

keep in mind someone whistleblew... and the IG found it credible and of 'urgent concern'... so OBVIOUSLY not simply a broad request of corruption investigations

he hasn't even denied bringing up Biden in relation to corruption

i'll predict he had 0 other examples of supposed corruption... why would he? he never knows anything

and supposedly he managed to circle back to Biden 8 times... sure he's a rambler, i wouldn't be surprised if Arnold Schwarzenegger & crowd sizes came up too, but he doesn't keep returning to something if it's not his purpose

he did it & he did it for purely corrupt personal reasons & required no solid basis in facts... as is typical of him & obvious to anyone paying attention
Forwyn
Member
Tue Sep 24 13:04:42
"Biden's secret motive"

Nah, I'm glad to know Biden showed up and threatened to withhold aid to pressure a firing, out of the goodness of his heart and to help his allies.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Sep 24 13:35:47
well, ironically/annoyingly, it's what Trump claims he was doing... Biden was tasked w/ Ukraine issues, there was global & national (to Ukraine) concern about this prosecutor, & Biden isn't caught on surveillance saying what he did, he proudly announced it

you've decided Biden was concerned about a dormant investigation that wasn't even about his son & had found nothing, because that's all Fox News or your sources are mentioning

-----

in any case, Trump tweeted there will be a "fully declassified and unredacted transcript of my phone conversation" released tomorrow... we'll see
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Sep 24 14:10:08
kind of suspiciously today he's saying he held up funds because Europe not contributing enough... while yesterday he was saying it was over corruption concerns

maybe the adults told him 'no no no, don't let the $ have any connection to corruption' as then it shows the quid pro quo

anyway, tomorrow we'll possibly have the facts (unless he's lying again as usual)
Forwyn
Member
Tue Sep 24 15:22:00
"you've decided"

Nah, just curious why threatening to withhold funds to demand a firing is A-okay, as long as other beltway politicians want him gone too
kargen
Member
Tue Sep 24 16:07:10
jergul
If the Democrats go forward with impeachment there is a much better chance Republicans flip the house than Democrats flipping the Senate. Most the Republican Senators up for reelection are from solid red states such as Wyoming. Some of the Democrats up for reelection are from states President Trump won.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Sep 24 16:13:21
i never cited any "beltway politicians"...

posted in other thread:
"Various street protests demanding Shokin's resignation were held and his Deputy Prosecutor, Vitaly Kasko, resigned on 15 February 2016 denouncing the corruption and lawlessness of the Prosecutor's office."

---------

in any case, Pelosi has finally gotten on board and announced formal impeachment inquiry... which probably doesn't change much, but nice to hear :p

i predict Fox News will continue to only investigate Biden & not note all the people who wanted that guy gone, & just cherry pick whatever tidbits sound bad
kargen
Member
Tue Sep 24 17:12:07
All Pelosi did today is say they would begin talking about talking about forming a committee to talk about impeachment. Her announcement basically added another step on the way to committee.

Fox News after Pelosi was done actually said that any fair investigation should include both accusations. Okay one guy on Fox News said it but the panel agreed.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Sep 24 18:27:24
what's the other investigation?

there's literally nothing to investigate about Joe Biden... and why would congress investigate Hunter Biden?
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Sep 24 23:46:29
“there's literally nothing to investigate about Joe Biden...”

If he keeps pushing for the presidency, eventually his pedophilia history will get investigated.
hood
Member
Tue Sep 24 23:48:35
It didn't stop Trump.
kargen
Member
Wed Sep 25 02:57:40
literally nothing to investigate didn't stop the Democrats from going after Kavanaugh. If nothing is there it should be a short investigation. I suppose the Republicans could take a page out of the Democrats Kavanaugh page, make some outrageous accusations then pretend they are facts.
I'm hoping for short all the way around then an announcement of either nope nothing here or yep he is fucked. We know at least one side (give you a hint most voted for Hillary) plan to drag it on for at least 13 months and maybe for five years.
hood
Member
Wed Sep 25 07:55:46
Nothing to investigate? Aside from Trump's "good friend" (his words) operating a child sex ring, accounts that Trump's properties were used for this sex ring, and accounts from at least 1 victim coming forward, there's nothing to investigate in the Trump pedophilia case?
kargen
Member
Wed Sep 25 11:00:57
hood what the fuck does any of that have to do with Kavanaugh?

But now that you mention it yeah there is plenty to investigate there. Like who did the Clintons hire to stage the "suicide."
Forwyn
Member
Wed Sep 25 11:41:05
"i never cited any "beltway politicians"..."

Parliament, EU, IMF, etc

Anyway, transcript is out, and as usual, it's a fat-ass nothing burger.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 11:41:23
here you go, impeach:
(not just the highlight yellow, read the top)
http://pbs...AMgZ-s?format=png&name=900x900

why in fuck's hell should Giuliani be involved?

plus 'very good prosecutor'... that the entire world wanted gone... he left that part out...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 11:44:29
"beltway politicians" are politicians in DC

you are discounting the EU, & Ukrainian Parliament? they all wanted to protect Hunter Biden too? even though he wasn't under investigation...

plus even if you are discounting... i'll circle back to "Various street protests demanding Shokin's resignation were held and his Deputy Prosecutor, Vitaly Kasko, resigned on 15 February 2016 denouncing the corruption and lawlessness of the Prosecutor's office."
Forwyn
Member
Wed Sep 25 11:53:10
Yeah, that's not impeachable, and definitely not pressuring or threatening to withhold aid, as was said, and as numerous Dems have done.

Anyway, using "beltway" to describe the entrenched political class. Perhaps not perfectly accurate, but it certainly includes much of the US beltway.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 12:02:32
you feel he had no corrupt motive? he has a strong grasp of the facts & feels such strong malfeasance has occurred that he as President should request a foreign government to investigate citizens of his own country?

and how exactly is Giuliani appropriate to be involved?

he ordered the aid withheld days before that call... the Ukraine prez / TV comedian said he'd look into it on the call... the funds later were cleared (either because adults recognized the obvious corruption, or perhaps Trump feels he accomplished his goal)


there's a full version of what they released here... he lays foundation that US has done a lot for them & says 'i wouldn't say it's reciprocal necessarily' then is mostly focused on Biden & repeatedly wanting Giuliani & Barr involved
http://www...today-2019-09-25-live-updates/

seems clear his entire purpose of the call was calling for investigation of Biden
Forwyn
Member
Wed Sep 25 12:24:23
And yet the comment was offhand, not pressuring, not demanding.

You're deranged.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 12:28:43
Barr claims Trump didn't come to him about this so either:

A) Barr is lying
B) Trump only mentioned Barr to have it make some slight official sense to be involved (although still inappropriate)... but really wanted Giuliani as point person
C) -provide a possibility that doesn't look bad-
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 13:14:34
according to credible guy on CNN, the IMF (international monetary fund) was a lead force in wanting that prosecutor gone (not wanting to send aid when he was weak on corruption)

any Fox News watchers, let me know how often they are noted (or any of the other heaps who wanted the guy gone)... also cite who are the people, besides Trump, who said he was a "very good prosecutor"

---

also, let me know if it would've been fine for Obama to request foreign countries work w/ Eric Holder & let's say Rahm Emanuel (in every country Trump had business) to launch fraud investigations given his history of fraud lawsuits... w/ some of them depending on US aid which is also mentioned just prior to the request...


unfit. corrupt.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 13:52:50
i didn't even know what the Crowdstrike reference was, but apparently its the belief Ukraine has Hillary's emails... so... 100% of his interest just happened to be self-interest (& in regards to conspiracy theories which alone make him unfit)


but pure coincidence, i'm sure
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Sep 25 14:54:47
[hood]: “It didn't stop Trump.”

Trump only had a couple of dated allegations surface (of pedophilia, as opposed to sexual assault on adults) in a “he said, she said” format, and they fizzled without public testimony, whereas Biden has video montages of him being creepy on children during photo-ops. Video evidence is stronger than accusations alone, and those montages will give the news networks lots of creep factor to play up as background video when/if grown children come forward with stories of old Uncle Joe inviting them to quiet rooms at parties.
kargen
Member
Wed Sep 25 14:58:56
"you feel he had no corrupt motive?"

This might be one of the main things causing your delusions. How you or anyone else feels has nothing to do with it. Was it a crime or not? A long investigation said no.

You can't assume you know what someone was thinking then convict them based on your assumption. Gotta give the Democrats credit though they keep tilting at that windmill.
hood
Member
Wed Sep 25 15:03:25
Video evidence of not-rape is not on the same level of accounts of rape. If people are accusing Biden of misconduct, I've not heard of it yet.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 15:44:35
"Was it a crime or not?"
- Not actually relevant for impeachment

"A long investigation said no."
- what the hell are you talking about? there's no investigation of this call (& if you mean Mueller somehow which didn't involve this at all, obviously, then he DID think there was corrupt motive & DID find actionable crimes... see Volume 2...)

you remain poorly informed & crazy
kargen
Member
Wed Sep 25 16:08:25
Turns out you are the one that is behind and poorly informed. There was speculation back before we the people were made aware of the call that it might of led to illegal campaign contributions. That was investigated and they found nothing illegal in the call. So the Democrats knew going in there was nothing in the call.
Volume 2 still doesn't say what you have convinced yourself it says. It just doesn't.

You wanna see get out of the fetal position you are in crawl out from under your desk and look in a mirror. Really concentrate and try to break through your mental fog and take a good look. Do that and you will see crazy.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 21:28:19
"there was nothing in the call."

Yeah, except clear impeachable abuse of power


"Volume 2 still doesn't say..."

Wrong again... as noted a million times... he lays out multiple instances of obstruction and why Trump behavior meets all elements

-Nothing- prevented him from saying 'we found insufficient evidence of a crime' which he absolutely would have and should have said if that was the case, that was his whole role (as that rat Ratcliffe noted)... but he didn't say that and hammered it home with 'if I could say with confidence Trump didn't commit a crime I would have said so' or whatever the exact quote

Something -did- prevent him from saying Trump committed crimes.... so it's clear what path was intended.

You remain a poorly informed crazy person.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 21:33:14
and as well as abuse of power, let's note he is as grossly ignorant and/or dishonest when doing business with world leaders as he is when talking to the public... (see how he decided the prosecutor was 'really good', guess if that was based on a shred of evidence)

unfit
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 21:46:52
...and, not that I'm sure I want to get into this again with a crazy person, but please explain what you think Mueller would've put in his report to indicate obstruction that wasn't in there?
(given the restrictions he repeatedly noted he was working under)

I look forward to your non-answer or poorly informed answer or crazy answer
kargen
Member
Thu Sep 26 02:36:57
If there were real evidence of obstruction in that report the Democrats wouldn't have felt the need to move on to this latest turd. Nothing will come of the current transcript nor the whistle blowers testimony when he gets to the Senate so the Democrats will move on to the next "slam dunk" we got him this time hallucination. They are almost as delusional and lost as you are. Almost.
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Sep 26 06:10:17
[hood]: "Video evidence of not-rape is not on the same level of accounts of rape.

True; video evidence here is stronger. *Verbal* accounts with no provable, evidenced basis can be dismissed as politically-motivated whereas *video* of Biden physically touching young children and close-talking in their ears while they pull away from him in morbid disgust is demonstrable evidence.

..
[hood]: "If people are accusing Biden of misconduct, I've not heard of it yet."

Not yet! It wouldn't be well-timed at this point. The GOP would prefer that the candidate whom they have the most dirt on survives to take the nomination (That makes it seem sloppy to me for Trump to try to discredit Biden *now* when it would be better to do so later, though maybe they have more dirt on another candidate?). *Then*, the victims come forward (Christine Ford-style). As per the DNC's Ford strategy, the victims do not even need to be real or credible. All the GOP needs is to play the creepy-Biden montage on Fox News while discussing victim testimony, and Biden drops in the polls at a key moment.
hood
Member
Thu Sep 26 08:08:07
Video evidence is only stronger to the mass of tards parading about the country. I was under the impression that we were talking about actual investigations, not campaign smearing. Nobody is going to investigate Biden for pedophilia if all they do is say "look, children don't like him on TV! See how he's got his hands on their shoulders? That's basically rape!!!!" Whereas some actually claiming some level of inappropriateness is a much more credible claim to investigate, as we have with Trump.

If you're only speaking of political campaign shit slinging, fair enough. From that angle you are correct.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 11:21:30
"If there were real evidence of obstruction"

there was... it's a fact... that's why 1000+ prosecutors said it was sufficient to charge, that's why respectable R's agreed it was there, that's why there is absolutely NO CHANGES required to that report to show obstruction (i see you dodged the question, as there was no other choice)... whereas there would be MANY changes if Mueller was saying he didn't find obstruction (i did a brilliant analysis in another thread once :p... but i'm sure finding & reposting would do as little good as it did then)

if Barr hadn't deliberately misled (i have proven that too) & let it simmer for weeks in the public before the report was released, it would have been sufficient. Unfortunately, Barr fucked over the country, and the Dems are working against his misrepresentations + continuous Fox News cover-ups to try to get the public on board w/ impeachment

but luckily they are now (hopefully) deciding they have to just do what is right, even through the cloud of bullshit


You remain a poorly informed crazy person.
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Sep 26 16:38:10
[hood]: "Whereas some actually claiming some level of inappropriateness is a much more credible claim to investigate, as we have with Trump."

False. Claims themselves are not automatically credible. Claims must be evaluated for credibility by police and prosecutors.

..
[hood]: "Video evidence is only stronger to the mass of tards parading about the country ... Whereas some actually claiming some level of inappropriateness is a much more credible claim to investigate"

"Mass of tards" is an interesting choice as a synonym for "judges and lawyers." Video evidence is legally more effective in court than verbal claims. That is legal fact. Claims without video evidence have much less legal power than claims *with* video evidence. That is legal fact. It is one thing to make the claim, it is another to have video evidence verifying the claim or the nature of the claim.

Trump's accuser(s) (specifically the pedophilia one(s), again, not the adults) are non-existent, vague suggestions, or unreliable (i.e., "[He may have met with people, we think, possibly, at some parties, possibly, if he had contact with certain circles there, possibly, if this person could substantiate any of her claims, ever]"), whereas Biden has video that builds a verifiable tendency to touch children who do not want to be touched. (If TDS is real, it may help to switch the names to see that one condition provides stronger evidence than the other.) The question of political smearing is just one of how actionable that evidence is (i.e., is it smearing to suggest — with no evidence or credible victim testimony — that Trump engaged in depraved acts with an underage girl in 1994? Yes. Is it smearing to suggest — with no credible victim testimony — that Biden is a pedophile? Also yes! But the video evidence of Biden handling children while they resist him is there waiting to substantiate the nature of claims should they arise. If Biden is attacked by victim claims as substantial as Trump's (that is, not particularly credible claims, but enough to shake the news cycle), then — with that video evidence — he will not do as well as Trump did. Because again: video evidence builds the credibility of claims. Claims themselves (with no verifiable evidence) must be very credible to have legal power.
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Sep 26 16:41:36
*"that evidence is (i.e., ... should they arise.[)]"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 17:46:16
we can extrapolate from this video that he has raped countless women of all ages
http://twi...us/1151482900019339264?lang=en

or minimally feel vaguely disgusted
chuck
Member
Fri Sep 27 06:57:50
When did Cherub Cow become Rugian-lite? Jesus Christ.

> If he keeps pushing for the presidency, eventually his pedophilia history will get investigated.

Yeah, good point. Super fucking reasonable. It wasn't caught by Republican oppo researchers in 2008 or 2012 when he was on the ticket with Obama. That makes sense though! Rs were pretty ambivalent about whether Obama should get a second term so it makes sense they didn't really bother doing their homework there.

Reconsider your life choices. I'm fucking disappointed in you, CC.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 11:45:47
i don't think CC is making the accusation, just saying if someone does, then Biden's in trouble in this age

i've been worried about that creepy Joe video stuff from the start, one reason i wasn't for him (it's negative even without any accusations & will definitely be used)

Tulsi, Buttigieg & Klobuchar were my picks... although a lot of fellow Dems seem to hate Tulsi plus she doesn't want to impeach, so i've kinda given up on her
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 11:51:12
...& w/ Trump being an amoral lying piece of shit, surrounded by immoral lying pieces of shit, with ignorant gullible pliable hordes of zealots, quite conceivable someone makes an accusation... especially as he claims all his accusers (& any accusers of Rs) are fake
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 11:59:08
actually we've already seen it from one of Trump's fanatics: Jacob Wohl (some guy who would instantly praise Trump w/in secs every tweet Trump made)

he tried to get a fake accusation on Mueller
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Fri Sep 27 12:01:45
"although a lot of fellow Dems seem to hate Tulsi plus she doesn't want to impeach, so i've kinda given up on her"


they hate her cause she's not a war mongering cunt.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 12:14:26
hmm...

“Up to this point, I have been opposed to pursuing impeachment because it will further divide our already badly divided country. So it is unfortunate, but necessary, that I speak in support of the inquiry.” ~ Tulsi

i guess she anticipated my losing faith & put that out... i'll keep her in my top 3
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