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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump/Ukr transcript
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Wed Sep 25 23:25:00
I'm using Foxnews so republicans will look at it.

Its pretty fucking damning
A few weeks prior to this call Trump personally involved himself in cutting aid to Ukr

http://www...l-transcript-read-the-document

Zelenskyy: "We are ready to buy more Javelins from US for defense purposes"

Trump: I would like you to do us a favor (incoherent word salad) I would like you to meet my AG and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 23:42:46
the incoherent part about Crowdstrike is Trump buying into the idea a Ukrainian has the DNC server that was hacked (sorry, i said Hillary's server in another thread)

aptly named article about it:

The Truth About Trump’s Insane Ukraine ‘Server’ Conspiracy
http://www...sane-ukraine-server-conspiracy

totally fine that the President believes any whack job notion he hears if it's good for him politically... & not embarrassing or unfit at all that he brings it up w/ other world leaders

(that's sarcasm from me... even though it's the Republican/Fox News actual position)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Sep 25 23:46:47
...which by the way means Trump still trying to claim Russia innocent of the hacking (that's the whole point of wanting the DNC server)

& thus his Helsinki correction proven total bullshit even though always obvious, and he remains a traitor

no biggie
Paramount
Member
Thu Sep 26 01:13:08
”“We had I think good phone call, it was normal, we spoke about many things ... I think, and you read it, that nobody pushed me.”

http://www...-to-act-on-biden-idUSKBN1WA2IB


That was obviously a rehearsed response. And he was obviously pressured/threatened to say this. Trump sat beside him, not that Trump pointed a gun at him, but he might as well have done it.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 02:04:03
"
Yesterday, I had expected the WH to release an unremarkable transcript to distract from the main issues: the whistleblower complaint and other abuses. Today, it released a highly incriminating transcript, and it seems POTUS doesn’t know the difference between right and wrong.
"
~ Justin Amash, conservative tea party libertarian... now the devil for paying attention
kargen
Member
Thu Sep 26 02:28:06
already been investigated and dismissed. Old news to everyone but the delusional.
Daemon
Member
Thu Sep 26 03:28:52
POTUS = POS
Pillz
Member
Thu Sep 26 09:52:26
Finally a real leader on the work stage
obaminated
Member
Thu Sep 26 10:32:44
Lol. What's criminal about this? Like negotiating is somehow criminal now.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 11:27:54
negotiating? please explain
Paramount
Member
Thu Sep 26 11:36:22
As far as I believe it is a criminal offense because a president may not receive a benefit from abroad.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 11:45:02
how about we remove him as he's a corrupt unfit child who learns no facts on anything as proven repeatedly


how an adult might have spoken...
"The CIA has informed me of criminal behavior by one of our citizens in your country, here are the accurate details..., I'll have the CIA contact your appropriate agency to coordinate"


not
"hey, i saw some things on Fox News & overheard tidbits of other vague nonsense about my political opponent... also i'll toss in some made-up bullshit of my own... please look into it with my personal henchman"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 11:54:08
here's the whistleblower complaint
http://dri...WA5oogCwf21SFZHcPuYFgiZrN/view

i haven't read it all... though one item of note on bottom of page 3 has alleged efforts to hide this 'pitch perfect' call transcript

which would be consciousness of guilt (by adults, obviously not Trump... he has no idea what is right & wrong as Amash noted... as he's a child, & why i use amoral over immoral)

one has to assume improper behavior is standard by this total idiot child, so covering up his actions has probably become just routine at the WH
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 12:30:37
not that it's the worst thing in the call, but i'd like mt or kargen or anyone to look into the Crowdstrike nonsense... and explain, even if someone in Ukraine has the DNC server (which is nuts), by what rationale should the Ukraine president be investigating it? It is private property not being sought by any law enforcement.

why is this total batshit crazy nonsense being brought up by our President to their President... provide a reasonable sane fit explanation. Good luck.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 12:46:49
...actually it may be worst thing as it conclusively proves his mental unfitness, plus shows he trusts conspiracy theory rumors over unanimous conclusion of our intel community

a shame news not focusing on it more instead of just the gross abuse of power part
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 26 13:25:06
By what rationale should Ukranian authorities be investigating Paul Manafort and dropping their findings in the middle of the 2016 race? By what rationale should Hunter Biden be getting a $600,000/year sinecure at an Ukrainian energy company just months after his daddy advised Ukraine to increase its energy production? By what rationale should the President of Ukraine be sacking prosecutors who pose a threat to Bidens son?

Life is full of these sorts of mysteries. You crazy loon tw.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 26 13:48:37
"By what rationale should the President of Ukraine be sacking prosecutors who pose a threat to Bidens son?"

have your news sources seriously not answered this question yet? abandon them post-haste
Daemon
Member
Fri Sep 27 01:18:51
From the readout:

"Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she doesn't do anything."


If you retards "elect" him again we will have a serious problem.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 01:48:49
his words should not be expected to have meaning according to kargen
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 27 02:21:07
"As far as I believe it is a criminal offense because a president may not receive a benefit from abroad."

The investigation concluded there was no benefit received. Even if there were the usual penalty is a fine.

"his words should not be expected to have meaning according to kargen"

His tweets do not.

Oh and our treaty with Ukraine says the two countries will help each other with investigations when and if needed.
Paramount
Member
Fri Sep 27 11:52:31
I’m pretty sure there is nothing in any treaty that says that foreign countries will have to help Trump to bust his political opponents to win the election at home.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 12:06:40
written words are still words... his twitter doesn't specify these words are random keystrokes or something

------

White House is admitting they moved that call transcript to the highly classified system as the whistleblower noted (so everything so far is completely accurate, even though they are trying to smear the wb as having a Dem lawyer & only having second-hand info, etc)

it's illegal to classify something to conceal crimes or avoid embarrassment
patom
Member
Fri Sep 27 12:16:08
Here is a conspiracy theory that has been bouncing around in my head.

Maybe this is all a charade with the aim of denying defense appropriations for the Ukraine. Leaving them more vulnerable to a Russian takeover.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 12:46:57
Trump being a selfish child seems more likely, i mean i'm sure he doesn't care at all about Ukraine & would blame someone else if Russia seized it completely... but Trump simply looking out for help for himself seems perfectly believable and expected.

You could see when he had that presser w/ the Ukraine prez that the Ukraine guy was desperate for help & Trump feeling what was most important was to note Crimea was lost under Obama, that there was 'no pressure' & meh, he hopes the guy can work things out w/ Putin.

----

Meanwhile, on Fox & Friends (about impeachment arguments):

“So it’s going to be the president of the United States in a conversation that was intercepted by a rotten snitch, I’d love to wap him [shakes fist], but that’s another story.”
~ Geraldo (he considers himself to be a journalist i believe...)
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 27 12:52:18
"have your news sources seriously not answered this question yet? abandon them post-haste"

Unlike you, I dont let CNN and NYT dictate to me on what I should be outraged about va. what I should find to be "acceptable" behavior.

Just because leftist media casually dismisses the Biden controversy out of hand, that doesnt mean it isn't relevant.
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 27 12:55:41
Wherever Joe Biden went, son Hunter cashed in

By David Harsanyi September 26, 2019 | 9:21pm | Updated

In a now notorious July 25 conversation, President Trump asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to “look into” Ukraine’s role in efforts to interfere in the 2016 election as well as the dealings of Joe ­Biden and his son Hunter with the notoriously corrupt country.

Whether or not Trump’s ham-fisted conversation with Zelensky rises to an impeachable offense, the American people have legitimate reasons to be curious about both issues — and especially the Biden family’s blatant conflicts of interest abroad as Joe Biden seeks the presidency.

Biden has been leading the Democratic field. The central case for his candidacy rests on the supposedly exemplary work he did as a senior member of Team Obama. Well, in 2016, acting as the Obama administration’s point man in Ukraine, the vice president — unlike Trump — openly threatened to withhold $1 billion in American loan guarantees if the embattled nation didn’t fire the country’s top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin.

As Biden later bragged, “I looked at them and said, ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.’ Well, son of a bitch. He got fired.’ ”

Most of the media assure us that, though by the Democrats’ new standards this kind of ­intimidation constitutes a flagrant abuse of power, Biden’s reasons for threatening Ukraine were chaste.

But simply repeating this talking point doesn’t make it true. Granted, Shokin was a shady character. Yet at some point he had been investigating Burisma, the largest gas company in Ukraine, which also happened to be paying Hunter Biden a $50,000 monthly salary as a board member.

By coincidence, Hunter had landed this cushy gig in a foreign country only a few months after the Obama ­administration began dispatching his father, Joe, to the very same foreign country on a regular basis.

There was, of course, absolutely nothing in Hunter’s résumé to indicate that he would be a valuable addition to foreign energy interest. He didn’t speak the language, and he had no particular expertise in the energy industry. Oh, he did have one thing, though: his last name.

I suppose, that isn’t entirely fair. Hunter once ran a hedge fund with his dad’s brother, James Biden, and associated with a notorious Ponzi schemer. James would go on to snag a job as executive vice president of a construction company in 2010, despite having virtually no experience in the field. And only a few months into his tenure, the company would win one of its biggest contracts in its history, a $1.5 billion deal to build affordable homes in Iraq.

By pure happenstance, Joe was also the Obama administration’s point man in Iraq at the time. Funny how these things work out.

Liberal reporters, who are framing Trump’s conversation with Zelensky as the most perilous threat in the ­republic’s history, have shown little curiosity about Biden’s dealings with the Ukrainian government. Many media personalities, in fact, have rallied to ­Biden’s defense, calling any intimation of wrongdoing a smear.

NBC’s Chuck Todd dismissed any Biden talk as a mere distraction. CNN called questions into the former vice president’s actions “baseless.” Other liberals now argue that the Biden firing of Shokin actually worked against the interests of Hunter.

We have no way of knowing if this is true, either. According to The New York Times, Hunter’s work for Burisma had “prompted concerns” among Obama administration State Department officials, because it undermined diplomacy in Ukraine. Was Biden really the only person available to pressure Ukrainian officials while his son was raking in the cash? Does anyone really believe Biden’s claims that he never once spoke to his 49-year-old son about business in the two years they spent working in the same country?

Now, perhaps Hunter didn’t break any Ukrainian laws. That doesn’t mean a proper investigation couldn’t turn up unethical or dishonest behavior. What we already know is that the Biden family business reeks of cronyism.

When these allegations were recently brought up to Biden by Fox News, an indignant former vice president pointed his finger at the reporter and demanded he “ask the right questions!” After being insulated in the Obama administration for so many years, it isn’t surprising that Biden feels betrayed by any scrutiny. But despite the gaslighting of his allies, Biden’s role in the Ukrainian affair is a completely legitimate line of inquiry.

http://nyp...den-went-son-hunter-cashed-in/
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 27 12:57:11
"Liberal reporters, who are framing Trump’s conversation with Zelensky as the most perilous threat in the ­republic’s history"

This sums up tw perfectly. Congrats on falling for Russiagate 2.0, bro.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Sep 27 13:26:44
I'm more curious as to why a CIA agent is embedded in the White House just long enough to "whistleblow", then heads back to his normal post.

Also why Langley hasn't been carpet bombed, but that's for another day
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Fri Sep 27 13:35:41
"Also why Langley hasn't been carpet bombed, but that's for another day"

Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.

-someone in the know
Paramount
Member
Fri Sep 27 13:38:13
”I'm more curious as to why a CIA agent is embedded in the White House just long enough to "whistleblow"”


I’m guessing the agent is there to blow the whistle if he/she sees something.
hood
Member
Fri Sep 27 13:38:56
It's weird to hear ttumptards criticize Joe Biden of all the things Ttump does flagrantly.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 14:12:41
"Wherever Joe Biden went, son Hunter cashed in "

Wherever Trump went, son Don Jr & daughter/lover Ivanka cashed in


there is no evidence whatsoever that Joe's motive on the prosecutor was about his son (despite the video on Trump's twitter of Trump's lawyer on Hannity stating it as a fact... kinda doubt Hannity acknowledged the guy was Trump's lawyer & he was not stating facts)... the investigation into Burisma started -before- Hunter joined, & no indication it ever targeted Hunter, & was no longer active when Joe acted all suggesting that might not be the obvious reason... the ONLY 'evidence' that it is is that the relationship merely existed. The IMF didn't want to send aid to Ukraine until the guy gone too... sound familiar? I guess Joe got real lucky everyone wanted the guy, who was known to be soft on corruption, gone.

if Hunter is doing something suspicious, go ahead and investigate... seems like US agencies should be doing it, not Trump asking Ukraine to work w/ his lunatic henchman

also... good luck finding a reason for the Crowdstrike total insanity...

Trump defenders like to leap on the least fucked up bit of his actions & work on that rather than looking at all of it

There is no question Trump has no understanding of the facts, is completely misrepresenting what fragments he has heard, and wanted Ukraine's help purely in self-interest rather than genuine concern of criminal activity. He couldn't care less that the Saudis chopped up a reporter... yet if any nutball made it on Hannity and suggested Biden or Warren hated that reporter too, i'm sure he'd be questioning if they chopped him up.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 14:15:16
and if Joe's motive was indeed purely corrupt, why in the hell would he brag about his actions at a public event years after when no one was talking about it
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 14:38:01
you'd have to be completely intellectually dishonest to claim Trump wasn't acting for personal benefit... which makes it the definition of political corruption

(or cite the other countries he's asked to investigate past alleged actions of corruption by people where he has no interest)

if you want to claim Biden was too (even though no actual evidence that was his motive, whereas there are purely legitimate motives) then fine, whatever, keep sucking Fox cock... that doesn't make them cancel out

Trump = corrupt... and a mentally unfit idiot fraud child
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 14:49:03
...and Cloudstrike is about his belief the DNC server wasn't hacked by Russia (& he remains unaware there was any other hacking, as he's an unfit IDIOT), thus he's trying to prove Russia innocent

i don't know how to categorize that level of unfit behavior or try to figure out all his motives, but it's DEFINITELY self-interest (& based on ignorance & insanity)

he's been trying to prove Russia innocent from the start... as he's an unfit idiot & possible traitor


quadruple post bonus!
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 27 14:54:39
"and if Joe's motive was indeed purely corrupt, why in the hell would he brag about his actions at a public event years after when no one was talking about it"

He heard about rappers getting arrested for street cred and thought he would give it a try?

And how does this benefit President Trump? Biden isn't getting the nomination. Soon as Bernie drops out all his support will go to Warren.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 15:22:06
someone is being intellectually dishonest as usual


i'm quite certain Trump has seen the repeated polls that show Biden beats him by the most

plus he'd like dirt on any leading candidate... or Pelosi, or Schumer, or Nadler, or Schiff, or AOC, or Tlaib, or Omar, or the London mayor, or the San Juan mayor, or Joe Scarborough, or Chrissy Teigen... [or anyone else from his lengthy enemies list]
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 27 15:43:41
You mean those same polls that said Hillary would win in a landslide?

Biden is running on those polls but he isn't going to be running against President Trump.

And all those candidates would like dirt on President Trump. That is why they have been digging for over three years now.

I really doubt both Bernie and Biden can survive to the end. Maybe they can but I doubt it. Bernie might hank on just because he is a loon, who knows.
When one of them drops it will be Warren that benefits most. Only shot Biden has (and it isn't much) is if those three stay in a virtual tie to the end.

This is another one of those cases where you are trying to play the mind reader and assuming motive. What we know is nothing about that call was illegal nor impeachable.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 17:03:24
do you feel your arguments are rationale? your opinion of polls is as meaningless as your opinion of Trump's tweets and your opinion of who will be the nominee

Trump's intentions are what matter. Trump cares about polls plus getting any smear material on anyone he feuds with. There is NO WAY he wasn't acting in his own self-interest.

And, yes, people want dirt on their opponents, thanks for admitting it's in his self-interest.

As to criminal, if they classified out of hiding his behavior, that's criminal (& there was nothing redacted when released, so nothing needed classified).

Plus corrupt abuse of power is impeachable.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 17:04:09
*rational (no 'e')
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 17:43:54
i'd like to amend "Trump cares about polls" to "Trump cares about polls more than everyone in history combined"

reading his poll #'s was a staple of his 2016 rallies... he touted even internet polls which no one w/ knowledge thinks have any meaning... Trump's criminal associate & co-conspirator Michael Cohen even rigged online polls to please his mentally=ill boss... Trump yells at Fox if they show a bad poll for him as if it's their fault

i'm sure its all a part of his clear mentally-ill obsession w/ ratings & crowd sizes

sooooo unfit
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 27 20:55:04
"Trump's intentions are what matter."

And you having super powers that include mind reading and projecting your conscious being across time and space know his intentions.

"Plus corrupt abuse of power is impeachable."

One more time because it didn't register in your fantasy world. We have a treaty with Ukraine. Part of that treaty says the two countries can call on each other to help with investigations. President Trump did that.

"And, yes, people want dirt on their opponents, thanks for admitting it's in his self-interest."

I've not said one way or the other on whether this was in his self interest. I said the Democrats have been trying to dig up dirt on the president for three years.

How sad is it that you can't even comprehend Two sentences. They don't fit your existence so to survive your brain just changes the words and/or meaning of the words.

My opinions are just that, I agree, they are opinions. Thing is they are based on thought and reality where your opinions become fact in your damaged brain because you are unable to cope with reality and are unable to put together a coherent thought when it concerns President Trump.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 21:06:02
"And you having super powers that include mind reading and projecting your conscious being across time and space know his intentions"

well when you recognize his words do have meaning and you observe the multitude of those words that have spewed out of him over the past few years you begin to learn about that person


I said Trump wanted dirt, you responded by saying Dems want dirt (for some reason)... so yes, you are admitting candidates want dirt... thus Trump seeking dirt is in his self-interest

and an agreement to work together on investigations would be those of Americas interest, not Trumps personal interest... if Biden needs investigated why would it start in Ukraine? And with Giuliani? Trump presents no evidence for any of it... establish some case before wanting help (and with non-corrupt respectable adults). Plus good luck defending the Crowdstrike insanity.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 27 21:32:27
...and note your friends at Fox News and other disgraceful Rs have decided Bidens motive (not based on anything, as opposed to Trump where we know his character, or lack there of, plus there aren't other credible motives as with Biden)

so I'll assume you are upset with them too
kargen
Member
Sat Sep 28 00:10:33
"and an agreement to work together on investigations would be those of Americas interest,"

no that would be mutual interest. If you were mentally stable you would know that.

I haven't opined on Biden's motive or lack of motive at all. I simply said President Trump asking Ukraine to investigate is well within the norms of the treaty.
Of course your brain being diseased as it is read something else. And it is about to do it again.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 28 01:15:32
mutual would include America... America doesn't initiate investigations by the President watching Fox News then sending his personal lawyer

there should be an actual official investigation started here, otherwise how is it mutual? Giuliani doesn't even work for the gov't


you remain crazy, as noted many times
kargen
Member
Sat Sep 28 01:28:49
I find comfort that you think I am crazy considering your current mental incapacity. You can note all you want but it only matters in your imaginary world.
American Democrat
Member
Sat Sep 28 04:41:20
"President Trump asking Ukraine to investigate is well within the norms of the treaty."

While using your personal lawyer? This is a very ridiculous statement considering the totality of the circumstances that surrounds the matter.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 28 11:33:14
kargen is ok w/ the any future President using America's mutual cooperation agreements to launch investigations w/ foreign countries into any crazy theory & using their personal henchmen

(as well as Fox News / many Republicans)

some R's seem to acknowledge it was wrong, but say it doesn't warrant impeachment... well, since Trump repeatedly is saying it was a 'perfect' conversation (as he's an idiot child), where are they getting the confidence that he won't continue his behavior?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 28 17:00:48
let's also note he calls it a favor... and doesn't ask, he tells... "i would like you to do us a favor, though"

if you go to Tony Soprano wanting to buy more whatevers, & he says "i'd like you to do me a favor, though" that's pressure to comply if you want those whatevers

& that comparison is apt as Trump operates & acts like a mob boss as noted repeatedly... & you can see the ridiculous level of complimenting the Ukraine guy does knowing you have to butter up the child & not offend him
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Oct 09 02:00:16
"
President Donald Trump is taking advantage of a Facebook exemption that allows politicians to lie in advertisements to spread disinformation about former Vice President Joe Biden’s 2015 diplomatic trip to Ukraine. Even though the ads contain misinformation, a Facebook spokesperson says they did not violate their company’s advertising policy because of carveout for politicians.

“Joe Biden PROMISED Ukraine $1 BILLION DOLLARS if they fired the prosecutor investigating his son’s company,” reads one ad the campaign started running on Wednesday, according to Facebook’s public ad archive.

“Joe Biden boasted that as vice president he threatened to withhold $1 billion in foreign aid from Ukraine unless they fired the prosecutor looking into a lucrative contract held by his son, Hunter Biden,” reads another Trump ad that began running the same day. The Trump campaign also ran ads with similar language earlier in the week which are now inactive.

The ads, which both include the false claim that Biden’s son Hunter was under investigation during the vice president’s Ukrainian trip, are accompanied by a video with a narrator voicing each ad’s text over a backdrop of ominous music and grainy footage.
"
http://www...book-ads-biden-misinformation/

those 2 ads are contradictory... not that team Trump gives a shit...

remember when kargen couldn't see a political reason Trump would want dirt on Biden? (Fri Sep 27 14:54:39)

kargen proven wrong again
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