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Utopia Talk / Politics / "surprise, motherfuckers!" (the kurds)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 06 23:36:54
Trump's current piece of shit Press Secretary released this statement late tonight for some reason

http://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1181040769156694016

finding a text version is not simple so click & read or don't :p

sounds like a decision made by Trump so obviously is uninformed

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 07 02:00:00
found a typed version:

"
Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.

The US government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured ISIS fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused. The US will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial “Caliphate” by the United States.
"
Crownroyal
Member
Mon Oct 07 06:30:43
http://twi...status/193337302066540545?s=19
Paramount
Member
Mon Oct 07 08:17:55
Maybe Erdogan promised to investigate Biden, so in return Trump withdraw the US forces from that area so Turkey can move their forces there.
Rugian
Member
Mon Oct 07 08:22:33
Tw would of course prefer that US troops instead remain in Syria for the next 30 years, because he's a total dicksucker to the military-industrial complex. Fuck off, warmonger.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Oct 07 08:43:07
actually, this is one of the promises Donald kept, he said he'll get out of syria completely. And, he persisted, even over all the objections. DoD sec General Mattis even resigned over this abandonment of american allies, iirc, but donald looks determined to withdraw anyway. Good for him, I say, assuming he doesn't change his mind a few times again. There is no perfect way to get out, so maybe you have to just do it.
Rugian
Member
Mon Oct 07 10:48:05
Yes, it would be good to withdraw American troops from the Middle East.
Rugian
Member
Mon Oct 07 10:49:16
Anyway, he's a statement from Trump to allay tw's concerns over the move:

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over...

....the captured ISIS fighters and families. The U.S. has done far more than anyone could have ever expected, including the capture of 100% of the ISIS Caliphate. It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory. THE USA IS GREAT!"
Forwyn
Member
Mon Oct 07 11:16:51
Obama's "informed" decision-making led to us arming jihadi head-choppers that caused us to need to help the Kurds not get genocided in the first place.

This is a perfect decision in comparison.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 07 11:44:45
"Tw would of course prefer that"... an idiot child president who knows nothing & studies nothing would consult w/ experts on decision-making (Erdogan, Netanyahu, MBS, Xi, Putin, & Jong-Un do NOT count, yet those are the ones Trump trusts & loves most)


"in my great and unmatched wisdom"
... i was hoping that was parody... sadly, it is not
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 07 11:59:48
he has multiple tweets suggesting the Kurds are on their own, so that's not within dear leader's limits

plus he wants torture (way worse than waterboarding) so not sure what Turkey could do that would be off limits to great & wise dear leader
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 07 12:08:07
"
We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend
"
~ Nikki Haley


time to call her a bimbo... as is the presidential method of defending himself...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 07 12:24:36
"This impulsive decision by the President has undone all the gains we've made, thrown the region into further chaos. Iran is licking their chops. And if I'm an ISIS fighter I've got a second lease on life. So to those who think ISIS has been defeated you will soon see. I hope I'm making myself clear how shortsighted and irresponsible this decision is in my view."
~ (original recipe) Lindsey Graham


not sure it's been made clear yet, but i'll continue my guess that Trump consulted no one who would be considered as having knowledge of the situation (the release by the current piece of shit Press Sec seems amateurishly written, so fits w/ it being a Trump lackey who wrote)
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Oct 07 12:27:37
maybe one day the Congress will nut up and take back the power of deciding where american military makes war, and when. Decisions like this shouldn't be made by president anyway.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 07 14:03:02

"I am absolutely appalled... The President of the United States is in danger of losing the mandate of Heaven if he permits this to happen."
~ Pat Robertson

http://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1181258801455996934

but "how the fuck is this gremlin still alive tho" is a good comment :p

The Children
Member
Mon Oct 07 14:07:59
u peoples have mandates of heaven.

god damn, wtf u talkin about.
Rugian
Member
Mon Oct 07 14:12:31
Mandate of heaven comes with a −10% stability cost modifier and −5 national unrest. Admittedly, I have a hard time saying that Trump has those.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Oct 07 14:16:43

Bari Weiss‏Verified account @bariweiss

Follow Follow @bariweiss
 More


Perhaps Trump’s abandonment of our Kurdish allies will be a final wake up to those still convinced that he is a stalwart supporter of Israel. This president has no loyalty other than to himself.



6:06 AM - 7 Oct 2019
Forwyn
Member
Mon Oct 07 15:24:45
Lulz, what? We were only ever propping up Rojava to weaken Assad.
jergul
large member
Mon Oct 07 15:30:53
I argued for supporting the kurds for a long time before it actually happened (if you absolutely have to support alternatives to the regime, then the kurds are the only secular alternative).

Abandoning the Kurds will simply force a more moderate form of self-government within a Syrian system.

The move plays more into the hands of Assad, than of Turkey.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Oct 07 17:44:45
LOL. Trump turned tw into John Bolton.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 07 19:03:34
actually if you look closely, i'm attacking his method of decision making (absolutely no study or consultation w/ people who know things, he has never sounded informed on any issue whatsoever & in fact makes up bullshit on an extremely regular basis... as he is totally unfit for office & mentally-ill)

my complaints of Trump have rarely been political

i post Republican criticisms as it disproves kargen's (& others) CRAZY theory that all the hate of the absurdly unfit Trump is because Hillary lost (i couldn't care less about Hillary)
Renzo Marquez
Member
Tue Oct 08 02:51:25
tumbleweed
the wanderer Mon Oct 07 19:03:34
"actually if you look closely, i'm attacking his method of decision making (absolutely no study or consultation w/ people who know things, he has never sounded informed on any issue whatsoever & in fact makes up bullshit on an extremely regular basis... as he is totally unfit for office & mentally-ill)"

LOL@people who know things. What do so-called "foreign policy experts" and "the intelligence community" know? How to start regime change wars that destabilize regions, cost billions of dollars, kill and maim thousands of Americans and Muslim civilians, and make us less safe? How to arm and train jihadists?

Looking back at the foreign policy consensus on Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Assfagistan, etc... what exactly do you think they've gotten correct?

I'm kinda hoping Trump gets impeached at this point so he chimps out and declassifies the documents on everything they've been up to (such as Timber Sycamore).
patom
Member
Tue Oct 08 05:44:44
With no clear end game on the horizon in the Middle East. It pains me to say I agree with Trump on getting the hell out of there.

Lindsey Graham has had his chain yanked by his masters from the Military/Industrial complex. They want us to stay in that shithole part of the world and spill our kids blood in a never ending quest for more money in their pockets.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Tue Oct 08 09:36:53

Ilhan Omar‏Verified account @IlhanMN


Follow Follow @IlhanMN

 More

Ilhan Omar Retweeted The Washington Post

Trump’s move will not put an end to endless wars. What it *will* do is reward Russia, Iran, and ISIS.

He’s not leading us toward peace. He’s showing the world that his political interests are more important than reliable leadership and keeping our commitments to our allies.

obaminated
Member
Tue Oct 08 11:56:34
Well if foreign policy expert Omar says that, it must be true.
Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 08 12:10:50
”What it *will* do is reward Russia, Iran, and ISIS. ”

Can someone enlight me how it will reward ISIS?

And if it will reward ISIS, how is it also rewarding for Iran and Russia?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 08 12:13:34
"
What do so-called "foreign policy experts" and "the intelligence community" know?
"

so you're a Forwyn type... here's the deal: Trump is a TOTAL moron & mental child as proven almost daily, he has no knowledge on any topic he deals with. If Trump seemed smart, and disagreed w/ those people using actual facts & reason it may be ok. Trump NEVER exhibits any of that. He is -still- trying to prove the unanimous conclusion of the intel community was wrong (as evidenced by his 'crowdstrike' comments to Ukraine)... what does he base it on? Putin saying he didn't do it? What other facts is he working with? Find him stating any evidence-based reason to doubt the Russia conclusions (not stuff you or Forwyn find on the fringes of the internet, just what Trump brings up). He uses no facts, he's tossed out stuff like 'if Russia did it, we'd never know' (something Putin told him).

Related to that, he trusts Putin, MBS, Netanyahu & seemingly Erdogan implicitly. Do you agree with that part of his diseased mind? He reflexively defends Russia on everything... why was it important for Trump to doubt Russia poisoned the people in England... i don't even see the personal petty reason to do that one... it's bizarre. I assume people like Erdogan won him over just by praising him which he's completely susceptible to.


someone tweeted this info from an article in the Atlantic:
"
In interviews, numerous high-ranking generals who served under Trump say he:
1) Disdains expertise
2) Trusts only his own instincts,
3) Resists coherent strategy
4) Is reflexively contrary
5) Has a simplistic and antiquated notion of soldiering
"
sounds like him...
we've heard before how he doesn't value people w/ actual experience/expertise (probably as they make him feel stupid, as he's stupid)


He is not of sound mind. Him taking an action you happen to agree with does not change that fact.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 08 12:21:08
actually, if this time is like last time which it probably was, not only didn't he counter the experts w/ reasoned analysis, he didn't even consult them at all... last time, Erdogan told him we accomplished our mission, he said 'oh, ok' & tweeted we were leaving... then Mattis quit stating Trump was an unamerican idiot... then adults cancelled Trump's plans... then kargen said that series of events was fine...

if you are taking a military action as President, i think we should all expect him to at least notify them & consult them (even if determined to do it) before tweeting to the world (even if he wasn't a totally ignorant idiot piece of shit lying child)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 08 12:51:09
...as further evidence of him not consulting anyone (& why he should) note the statement they put out has no mention of the Kurds (whereas that was the immediate concern of all news reporting / politicians)

i'm sure Erdogan didn't mention the Kurds in his call w/ Trump out of self-interest, i'm sure Trump didn't mention them as he didn't remember they existed

after the backlash started, Trump put out several tweets suggesting the Kurds are on their own, not our problem... then i guess that wasn't working, so he's claiming we aren't abandoned them today

if he actually consulted w/ people he could get all the info (he starts w/ zero) & get his strategy straight from the start... as one would expect from a President...
Forwyn
Member
Tue Oct 08 13:30:38
"so you're a Forwyn type..."

Logical? Blindly following "experts" gets you a heavily exacerbated civil war, and if the election swings slightly differently, more boots on the ground and regime change.

Trump is inconsistent and follows no true moral pattern. Still, you can call him retarded when he acts so, and praise his mostly correct actions, even if they're accidental.

"fringes"

Relevant intel reports, instead of HuffPo analyses of them, are not the fringes of the internet.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 08 13:38:38
not asking for blind following... he's not even consulting (particularly bad given his lack of intellectual curiosity & complete willingness to decide [make-up] the facts on his own)

plus he's a fucking loon (not to get too technical)

there's a list of like 30 conspiracy theories he's bought into out there, none w/ any compelling evidence
Rugian
Member
Tue Oct 08 13:43:13
Its already been mentioned by others as to why ignoring the advice of "experts" is a good thing here (because it invariably leads to perpetual wars).

But it's especially egregious that an ex-Ron Paul supporter like tw would need to have the appeal of this approach explained to him. Were you only on the RP bandwagon for the legalized weed or something? Bucking the military/intelligence establishment has been a long-held desire for a lot of us.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 08 13:54:39
i'll restate:

"He is not of sound mind. Him taking an action you happen to agree with does not change that fact."

he is not ignoring them for the reasons you want him to ignore them
Forwyn
Member
Tue Oct 08 16:39:49
Yeah, we get it. A phone call with Erdogan, who should be rotting at a US black site, is not a solid basis for foreign policy decision-making.

But it's not an overall bad move, unless you're suddenly pretending to give a shit about Rojava.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 08 17:18:00
"
Yeah, we get it. A phone call with Erdogan, who should be rotting at a US black site, is not a solid basis for foreign policy decision-making.
"

so you agree he's unfit for office, it's not like it would be anomalous behavior for Trump

we don't know if that's all that happened this time (although probably is) but definitely what happened last time
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 08 22:37:24

"
A bad situation in Northeast Syria is about to get much worse. Sources tell me that US officials have just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next 24 hours. The US will do nothing. Targets are Tal Abyad and Ras al Ayn....

...Ironically Tal Abyad was the main supply route for ISIS in 2014-15 through an open border from Turkey. Turkey refused repeated requests from US to shut border. That's a big reason why US decided to partner with SDF, which took the town in the summer of 2015.

...I'm also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.

...And finally there is the scary issue of the thousands of ISIS detainees and families, who may be breaking out of camps and prisons after Turkish attack--with NO American back-up plan. This is a major disaster coming at us because of Trump's decisions. Hours left to stop it...
"
~ David Ignatius (WaPo)


...just like when Murdock sold out Rambo
(i may have used that reference last time too :p)
Allahuakbar
Member
Wed Oct 09 09:30:39
Payback time!

http://www...urdish-troops-military-assault

Turkey launches military assault in Syria as Kurdish fighters say warplanes are bombing region
Paramount
Member
Wed Oct 09 11:06:04
Since the UN probably did not sanction the invasion, the Turkish invasion is illegal (unless Syria invited Turkey?). The UN and its member states does now have an obligation to remove the Turkish invaders.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Oct 09 17:38:18
twitter thread from Jennifer Griffin, National Security Correspondent for Fox News:

"
I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."

This veteran US Special forces soldier has trained indigenous forces on multiple continents. He is on the frontlines tonight and said they are witnessing Turkish atrocities.

"Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It's horrible," this military source on the ground told me.

"We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement. There was NO threat to the Turks - NONE - from this side of the border." "This is insanity," the concerned US service member told me. ""I don't know what they call atrocities but they are happening."


This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us."
"They are not abandoning our side (yet)."
The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."

Troops on the ground in Syria and their commanders were "surprised" by the decision Sunday night.
Of the President's decision: "He doesn't understand the problem. He doesn't understand the repercussions of this. Erdogan is an Islamist, not a level headed actor."

Acc to this US soldier on the ground tonight in Syria: "The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone. "It's a shame. It's horrible." "This is not helping the ISIS fight." Re: ISIS prisoners: "Many of them will be free in the coming days and weeks."

This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."
Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.
"
http://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1182053870744276993
Renzo Marquez
Member
Wed Oct 09 18:10:57
tumbleweed
the wanderer Wed Oct 09 17:38:18
"a distraught US Special Forces soldier"

Why don't you call him what he is? He's a war criminal. U.S. troops in Syria were not invited by Syria's government and they are operating illegally under international law.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Wed Oct 09 18:15:01
Distraught Special Faggot solider is ashamed for the first time ever? He wasn't ashamed when Special Faggots were arming and training Sunni jihadists in Syria?
obaminated
Member
Wed Oct 09 20:17:51
Pretty sure Israel is closer to western thinking than the Islamic communist leaning Kurds. So this grunt is full of shit.
kargen
Member
Wed Oct 09 23:18:32
There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal about this that has a different view than what I am seeing on the news. Here is a different article that is referencing the WSJ article.

In an op-ed Tuesday in The Wall Street Journal, Michael Doran, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, and Mike Reynolds, an academician at Princeton University, said labeling Turkey's objections to arming the YPG terror organization 'anti-Kurdish' is ignorant.
"To dismiss Ankara’s objections to America’s arming of the YPG as mere anti-Kurdish bigotry is ignorant, akin to labeling the fight against al Qaeda as Islamophobia," they wrote.
Referring to critics of U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to pull back U.S. troops from northern Syria, they said they disregard reality.
"Turkey’s determination to secure its southern border against the YPG is a wanton impulse, in the prevailing view. But the YPG has substantial ties to the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, the PKK, as then-Defense Secretary Ash Carter testified before Congress in April 2016," they said.
They also said that critics of Turkey's purchase of Russia’s S-400 air defense missile system which led to "rupturing the U.S.-Turkey relationship" is an oversimplification.

‘Turkey's three grievances’
The op-ed, titled "Turkey Has Legitimate Grievances Against the U.S.," listed Turkey's three grievances:
"First, America’s diffident Syria policy. Ankara followed Washington’s lead in backing the Syrian people’s attempt to overthrow the dictator Bashar Assad. But when Turkey shot down a Russian combat jet violating its airspace in 2015, President Obama treated the episode more as a bilateral spat between third parties than as a conflict between America’s key regional ally and a more powerful adversary of U.S. interests. Left on its own, Ankara realized it had little choice but to accommodate Moscow. Vladimir Putin’s steadfastness trumped Mr. Obama’s aloofness."
They stated that this paved the way for the relationship that begot the S-400 deal.
For the second issue, they said Fetullah Terrorist Organization (FETO) leader Fetullah Gulen's residence in the U.S. was defined by James Jeffrey, a former ambassador to Ankara, as "embarrassing" and added: "How, many Turks ask, can the U.S. harbor such a despicable figure?"
The piece depicted the third grievance as "most consequential" as the Obama administration decided to arm and train YPG terrorists as well as embed U.S. special forces with them in 2016.
"Rather than work with Turkey, the U.S. chose to support the Syrian wing of the PKK, which the Turkish public holds responsible for decades of warfare and tens of thousands of deaths. The PKK represents a grave threat to the Turkish Republic, and Turks across the political spectrum loathe it."
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 10 01:01:12
your source article seems to be from a Turkish site... not saying they definitely misrepresented the WSJ article, but i wouldn't trust it...

(i don't have a WSJ subscription to see it)


here's what Trump posted just after midnight:
"
In case the Kurds or Turkey lose control, the United States has already taken the 2 ISIS militants tied to beheadings in Syria, known as the Beetles, out of that country and into a secure location controlled by the U.S. They are the worst of the worst!
"

so anyone worried about those 2 prisoners can rest easy... and if the other 9,998 escape, no biggie
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 10 01:16:17
he also dismissed concern about potential release of prisoners earlier saying "well they're going to be escaping to Europe"... so who cares i guess

...and (consistent w/ his complete ignorance in all things) he thinks they want to go to Europe as he thinks they are all from European countries even though 20% or less are
patom
Member
Thu Oct 10 04:06:04
Trump says Kurds didn't help us at Normandy.

http://www...rds-isis-europe-215740775.html

There you have it folks.
Dickhead UPer
Member
Thu Oct 10 04:55:30
Uh oh! Tough talk from the pizza delivery guy and the fake lawyer.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 10 12:00:11
what he was talking about before Normandy was actually even more concerning & stupid imo

he got the Normandy bit from a TownHall article as his team scours conservative media to create defenses for the uninformed impulsive things he does

but prior to Normandy he started talking about NATO & countries not paying (i guess hearing the word 'allies' triggers that bit of nonsense that he likes to talk about... just like when he read 'rocket' off a teleprompter (about economy taking off) & started talking about Kim Jong-Un as 'rocket-man'... he's mentally ill, as noted)

anyhow, he still has no understanding at all of NATO which is concerning & bizarre & unfit
(as i note in my award winning thread, episode #14)
obaminated
Member
Thu Oct 10 12:38:36
NATO was built to counter the USSR. Why the fuck do we need NATO now? We won.
kargen
Member
Thu Oct 10 13:24:19
"your source article seems to be from a Turkish site... not saying they definitely misrepresented the WSJ article, but i wouldn't trust it..."

I read the WSJ article on the WSJ site but because it can be locked behind getting a subscription I found another site that summarized it. It is just an opinion piece so it should be taken as opinion. I posted it to show an alternative point of view.

Paramount
Member
Fri Oct 11 13:14:36
President Donald Trump has given his administration broad authority to slap sanctions on Turkey, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said Friday.

Trump signed an executive order authorizing the authorities, though the administration will not move yet to punish Turkish individuals or entities after the country’s offensive in northern Syria. But Mnuchin threatened devastating actions in the wake of Turkish strikes that the U.S. has condemned.

“These are very powerful sanctions. We hope we don’t have to use them. But we can shut down the Turkish economy if we need to,” the Treasury chief told reporters.

http://www...o-put-sanctions-on-turkey.html

If they do, they will weaken Nato and lose a strategic ally. Putin will win again as Turkey will likely align themselves more with Russia. lol
Paramount
Member
Fri Oct 11 13:17:49
Also, why isn’t Turkey allowed to follow the example of the Israel and defend themselves against ’terrorists’ and set up security zones?
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Oct 11 15:05:57
Turkey has shelled a group of us special forces. Time to kick these sand-sebs out of nato.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Oct 11 15:15:45
Reminder that Erdogan should have been arrested in the airport by the National Guard after his thugs beat up US citizens in the capital, and shipped off to Guantanamo.
jergul
large member
Fri Oct 11 15:15:55
The special forces were supposed to have taken a special bus out of the area, were they not?

Anyway, the US does not have the power to boot anyone out of Nato. No one does.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Oct 11 16:28:43
Trump won't do any sanctions or Erdogan will release their phone calls.
obaminated
Member
Fri Oct 11 16:28:56
Yep, Turkey fucked up. Time to send a few missiles.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Oct 11 16:32:20
don't worry, we have no troops in Syria so the story of artillery landing near them must be fake news

surely the Commander in Chief wouldn't lie to the public (or be too stupid to know)
Paramount
Member
Sat Oct 12 01:35:47
It was not even a hit. The shells landed close to them. Apparantly, Turkey was returning fire that came from that area. So maybe the US troops shouldn’t mingle with terrorists. The US was also told that Turkey was going to start an offensive, so why are the US troops there? lol
Paramount
Member
Sat Oct 12 04:39:19
Perhaps the US troops won't take orders from their Commander in Chief.

Trump tells the US troops to come home, but they remain. And someone decides to send even more troops to Saudi Arabia.

lulz

It is like The Clown in Chief can sit there and tweet like an idiot all he wants – it is someone else who is commanding the US troops.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Oct 12 08:15:38
A top general has come out saying we aren't abandoning the Kurds. Fucking Trump keeps trying to wag the dog to take the heat off his impeachment hearings. The Middle East becomes less of a problem if we at least help maintain a balance of power.

Trump doubling down on stupid has caused even more pointless violence. Just fucking stupid all around.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Oct 12 11:30:01
i'm trying to figure out if Trump lied to the military, or if the military covering for Trump

the military people seem to suggest Erdogan was determined to attack no matter what & doing so against our will, so we moved our people away to keep them safe

not at all the vibe ever given by Trump, he seemed only concerned about someone else taking over control of the prisoners so we could leave & showed no sign he was against their moves (until criticism coming from his beloved TV anyway, & even then he started with trying to say the Kurds aren't our problem... and aren't real allies since they weren't with us in Normandy, of course)

i can't picture Trump putting up any resistance to Erdogan's plans, Erdogan just tells Trump he wants to kill "terrorists" & Trump is too stupid to know what that means
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Oct 12 16:26:11
"
Turkish state-backed media hails a “successful operation” to “neutralize” an unarmed 35-year old woman working to unite Arabs, Christians, and Kurds in NE Syria. Ms. Hevrin Khalef was reportedly dragged from a vehicle and shot to death. That’s a war crime.
"
http://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1183112864908894208


the google translate of Turkish headline:

"One of the political extensions of the terrorist organization PYD in Syria, the Secretary-General of the Future Party of Syria, Hevin Halef, was neutralized by a successful operation."

Forwyn
Member
Sat Oct 12 17:19:56
God, I want to see Erdogan swing from a rope.
Victim
Member
Sun Oct 13 02:52:01
If Forwyn would say that about Trump then he would be arrested.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Oct 13 03:10:45
Maybe not, but he'd lose his Squatty Potty sponsorship for sure.
jergul
large member
Sun Oct 13 03:54:27
This is incidentally a classic case of preferring Islamists to secular socialists.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 13 11:58:51
corrupt AG Barr prefers Islamists to secular socialists... quite explicitly:
http://twitter.com/thehill/status/1182851865203105792
Rugian
Member
Sun Oct 13 12:03:12
Well ^THAT'S a misrepresentation of someone's words if I ever heard of.

I can't wait until Trump opens the libel laws so we can put a stop to tw's foolishness once and for all.
Rugian
Member
Sun Oct 13 12:04:27
Also

"tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Oct 11 16:32:20
don't worry, we have no troops in Syria so the story of artillery landing near them must be fake news"

----

"Defense secretary says Trump ordered near total withdrawal of troops from northern Syria"

http://www...troops-syria-turkey/index.html

Of course that won't stop you from finding a way to criticize this decision as well, I'm sure.
jergul
large member
Sun Oct 13 14:39:25
The kurds are meeting with the Syrian Government at a Russian airbase. A turkish invasion is one way of reunifying the country.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 13 15:04:03
he ordered a withdrawal as they are in danger from Trump's buddy Erdogan's forces & Trump's buddy Putin's forces coming from the other direction

an embarrassing retreat & abandonment
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Oct 13 15:06:57
...also not a misrepresentation of corrupt AG Barr, he may prefer 'judeo-christian' but he puts any religion over secular (for which he has open contempt)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 14 01:38:42
"
Just spoke with President @realdonaldTrump.

I applaud his decision to work with Congress to stop Turkeys aggression in Syria through crippling economic sanctions.

This decision by President Trump will be a game changer -- in all the wrong ways -- for Turkey.
"
~ Lindsey Graham (version who lavishes praise on guy for weak interest in helping mitigate problem same guy created)


does anyone in his family respect him i wonder

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Oct 14 21:19:56
Liz Cheney claims Erdogan chose now because of the impeachment inquiry

yup
patom
Member
Tue Oct 15 04:38:37
Out of a little curiosity, what exactly does Turkey produce that the world can't do without?
smart dude
Member
Tue Oct 15 04:44:11
Hmm, Turkish food is good (though I've never had it in Turkey)
Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 15 11:42:00
Can someone explain why Israel can set up so called ”security zones” and fight ”terrorists”, but when the NATO member Turkey follows Israel’s example and do the same thing then they are being sanctioned and everyone puts a weapons embargo on them?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Oct 15 14:58:05
every answer to that question is anti-semitic


meanwhile, Russians are touring our abandoned bases...
jergul
large member
Tue Oct 15 15:01:38
"every answer to that question is anti-semitic"

Not every answer. But those that are not are certainly anti-american.
Paramount
Member
Tue Oct 15 16:44:28
The anti-Trump/Putin/Turkey establishment is apparantly working hard to portray Trump’s decision to withdraw from Syria as something very very bad and disastrous.

http://twitter.com/gizmodo/status/1183773245163687936?s=21

There was also some article on the CNN (I think it was) yesterday that said that earlier reports on that ISIS had been defeated was fake news because ISIS is now coming back in full force because of Donald Trump.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Oct 16 11:50:09
"
I worry we will not have allies in the future against radical Islam, ISIS will reemerge, & Iran’s rise in Syria will become a nightmare for Israel.

I fear this is a complete and utter national security disaster in the making and I hope President Trump will adjust his thinking.
"
~ Lindsey Graham (classic)

swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Oct 16 12:32:03
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHAtDNSWwAAFV-U.jpg:large
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Oct 16 16:03:43
a letter Trump sent a few days after his abandonment (thus after bad press):

http://twi...us/1184559361638748161/photo/1

'let's make a deal! ...after i removed all my bargaining power...'

'don't be the devil, i'll call you later'
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Oct 16 17:11:35
Erdogan announces he will not meet US Vice President Mike Pence tomorrow to discuss ceasefire - Erdogan will only accept to speak directly with Trump


gee, i wonder why...
Seb
Member
Wed Oct 16 18:26:02
Us forces in retreat and reduced to blowing up their own positions (likely means they are unable to take kit with them?).

jergul
large member
Wed Oct 16 18:36:33
Just burning paper copy from what I could tell. But the evacuations were certainly rushed. The DoD had no prewarning.

Lots of kit left behind, but little to no armaments or technology.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Oct 16 20:58:28
I can’t be the only one who thought that Donald’s letter to erdogan was fake.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Oct 16 21:15:13
some media members did so they confirmed it with the current piece of shit press secretary

Trump deliberately put it out to show he acted tough... he's proud of it
Forwyn
Member
Wed Oct 16 22:15:18
SAA now positioned with YPG/PYD/SDF, rumors of captured Leopard 2s...lulz @ Turkey
jergul
large member
Thu Oct 17 04:33:31
Forwyn
It is actually a win for Turkey that the SAA reassert control.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Thu Oct 17 09:19:34
QUESTION: Yes, and I’m not disagreeing in terms of the effectiveness so far. But is it not in the U.S.’s national security interest to keep a small number of troops there to actually protect – help the Kurds protect, for example, the oil fields? I mean, if you’ve got Iran getting access to those oil fields, you and the administration have had Iran on its heels, and now with Turkey invading you’re opening up these oil fields to the Iranians, giving them revenue to continue to support ISIS. Not to mention the ISIS fighters being let out of these jails.

http://www...maria-on-fox-business-network/
Paramount
Member
Thu Oct 17 09:57:02
”and now with Turkey invading you’re opening up these oil fields to the Iranians, giving them revenue to continue to support ISIS”

What? Iran support ISIS? The interviewer does not seem to be aware of that ISIS are sunnis and Iran is shiia, and that Iran is an enemy to ISIS.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 17 12:54:03
Pence claims ('Under the Strong Leadership of TRUMP') they have gotten a ceasefire w/ Turkey for 5 days... & if the remaining Kurds flee the area it will be permanent (area being all land within ~20 miles of the border)

he was asked what concessions they got from Erdogan, no answer :p
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 17 13:20:24
"this is an amazing outcome"
~Trump

'no one else could do it', yadda yadda
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 17 13:21:58
he claims the Kurds are "incredibly happy with this solution"... we'll see about that
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Thu Oct 17 13:23:12
as long as the white helmets are on board it's halal.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 17 13:29:58
he said it is "a great day for Turkey, a great day for the Kurds, and a great day for civilization"

w/ lots of self praise obviously
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Oct 17 14:43:32
“Are we so weak and inept diplomatically that Turkey forced the hand of the United States? Turkey?"
~ Mitt Romney

Turkey is getting everything they want w/ no consequences (if Pence's comments are accurate... which isn't as much of a given as it should be)
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