Utopia Talk / Politics / Riots in Barcelona

Paramount Member	Tue Oct 15 12:48:17 They are shooting protesters with rubber bullets. Why won’t the police and the authorities accept the people’s demands? Where is the USA? Why won’t the USA help the protesters?? All they are asking for is freedom! The USA could put economic sanctions on Spain and raise the steel tariffs!
Asgard Member	Tue Oct 15 13:19:21 it's OK... it's fine. According to Jergul, Nothing bad is going to happen "Because they are [Christian]. Self-determination is not as important when there is affinity between occupiers and those occupied."
Rugian Member	Tue Oct 15 14:05:04 Asgard, He didnt actually say that...did he?
Asgard Member	Tue Oct 15 14:13:51 Well, fuck me. No, that was Nimatzo. I thought Jergul wrote because it is characteristically stupid, but I am saddened to see Nimi wrote it. I refer you to thread "Answers for Asgard II", timestamp 06:42:05
jergul large member	Tue Oct 15 14:54:20 Its actually an interesting thing. Catalonia cannot gain independence under Spains current Constitution. So obviously, Catalonia has to pursue constitutional reform if independence is a goal. Legal recourses need to be fully utilized before unilateral independence can be worked towards. Simply going waah and doing a half-assed referedum does not cut it.
Forwyn Member	Tue Oct 15 15:05:30 > Catalonia: proposes Constitutional changes > Rest of Spain: nah > Okay thanks jergul
jergul large member	Tue Oct 15 15:18:15 Forwyn You are welcome! Unilateral independence is now a legitimate course of action. Procedures matter. Its the only thing that keep tampongs from being reused.
Pillz Member	Tue Oct 15 16:36:47 No, it is not a legitimate course of action. Being subject to the Spanish governments authority, they haven't got a legitimate path to unilateral independence. 1. attempt constitutional reform 2. fail 3a. give up 3b. Unlawful unilateral independence If 3b, then the Spanish government has the legitimate course of using violence to instill the rule of Spanish law on Spain lands
yankeessuck123 Member	Tue Oct 15 16:37:59 Classic authoritarian thinking to conflate legality with morality.
jergul large member	Wed Oct 16 05:12:37 Pillz That logic is fine for as far as it goes. The 13 colonies were in a similar situation a while back. A civil war can have various parties with contradicting legitimate grounds to engage in armed struggle. But legitimacy is not automatic. Catalonian seperatists have to try constitutional reform and perhaps get a supernational ruling or three before proceeding with an actually robust referendum (the last one was flawed to irrelevance).
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 20 05:22:17 The riots continues! Secret group behind it all! http://www...nging-face-of-catalan-protests ”thousands of young Catalans marched on Barcelona-El Prat airport in an attempt to occupy it. Police responded with baton charges and fired rubber and foam bullets, and the clashes have been followed by three further nights of unrest in the region. Cars have been torched in central Barcelona, barricades set ablaze, buildings vandalised and police officers attacked with petrol bombs, fireworks and stones.” Why won’t the police accept the people’s demands? All they want is freedom. Why isn’t the USA helping. ”Tellingly, the airport occupation – with its echoes of the enduring protests in Hong Kong – was not called by the two biggest traditional pro-independence civil society groups, the Catalan National Assembly and Òmnium Cultural. It was the brainchild of A SECRETIVE NEW GROUP called Tsunami Democràtic that is USING APPS and social media to control and co-ordinate the protests.” ^ So if a secret person on an App tells you to go out and vandalize buildings and throw petrol bombs, you just go ahead and do it?? That person could be Putin! Young people are so *GULLIBLE*.
Average Ameriacn Member	Sun Oct 20 06:06:56 Riots everywhere, but not in the USA as Trump has made the USA great again! http://www...ac-f24b-11e9-a79c-bc9acae3b654 Chile’s president Sebastián Piñera has suspended a rise in metro prices after days of increasingly violent protests in which riot police used tear gas against demonstrators who looted shops, burnt buses and train stations and firebombed the headquarters of an energy company.
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Oct 20 13:02:42 Woman hit in Barcelona for wearing no veil: http://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/1185330455823966208
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 20 13:10:52 But where are the parents? Kids should not be outside and burn things and throw stones and petrol bombs.
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 20 13:13:00 But maybe it is part of Catalonian culture to throw stones.
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 20 13:13:34 * at the police
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