Utopia Talk / Politics / "Right to bear arms" is all fake

Daemon Member	Sun Oct 20 08:04:22 How can you treat a good man like this? http://www...-nazi-leader-prepping-n1068956 Guns seized from Washington man said to be neo-Nazi leader prepping for 'race war' Kaleb James Cole was not charged with any crime, but the guns were taken under the state's "red flag" law. Oct. 19, 2019, 5:23 AM CEST / Updated Oct. 19, 2019, 8:01 AM CEST By Phil Helsel Firearms belonging to the suspected leader of a neo-Nazi group who was thought to be preparing for a "race war" have been seized under a "red flag" law in Washington state, according to court documents. Authorities removed five rifles, three pistols and other gun components from Kaleb James Cole, 24, under a state law that allows authorities to take guns from people deemed to be a risk to themselves or others for up to a year, authorities said. Cole has not been charged with any crime. Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes believes the seizure, which court documents indicate happened Sept. 26, may have prevented a massacre. "This is a hate-filled human being, but unfortunately one who possesses really alarming numbers of weapons," Holmes said. Attempts to reach Cole at phone numbers listed in public records that may be linked to him were not successful Friday evening. It was not immediately clear if he has an attorney. Prosecutors filed a lawsuit against Cole invoking the state’s red flag law and seeking an "extreme risk protection order." Seventeen states and Washington, D.C. have laws allowing family members or police to remove weapons from people who may be dangerous, according to The Pew Charitable Trusts. The National Rifle Association has opposed some current protection order laws, arguing they deprive gun owners of due process. Cole is a self-admitted member of the "Atomwaffen Division" — which the Southern Poverty Law Center says is a terroristic national socialist organization that believes in using violence for “apocalyptic, racial cleansing” — and is thought to be the leader of the Washington state chapter, Seattle police said in its petition for the court order. Police believe Cole participated in recent firearm training and recruitment efforts at “hate camps,” which officials say he helped organize. "It appears that he has gone from espousing hate to now taking active steps or preparation for an impending 'race war,'" Seattle police said in the petition. Included with the police petition were a cellphone photo of Cole giving the Nazi salute, and another of him and another person standing in front of the Auschwitz death camp in Poland. Cole was stopped as he arrived at Chicago’s O’Hare Airport in December 2018 after a 25-day trip to eastern Europe, and officials then noted that he had been identified in an article as being Atomwaffen’s Washington state chapter leader, Customs and Border Protection said in documents attached to the petition. Cole allegedly admitted his membership, and CBP wrote in its report that he "stated that he shares a fascist ideology, 'strong dominate the weak.'" But that report also said that Cole told officials he discourages members from doing anything illegal and that his group is not interested in the overthrow of the U.S. government. He said he owned an AK-47 and several handguns for protection. Cole was released after being questioned, the report says.
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 20 10:10:37 Sounds good to me. The police should confiscate the guns from every fascist.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Oct 20 19:00:26 I don’t think Antifa uses firearms, so it would be a short confiscation list.
Turtle Crawler Admin	Mon Oct 21 01:01:58 His guns are all black. Super scary!
jergul large member	Mon Oct 21 08:04:05 See what CC did there? She like reversed things and called anti-fascists fascists! Amazing. What skill. CC You enjoyed perusing Goebbel's diary I see.
Turtle Crawler Admin	Mon Oct 21 10:48:28 None of the actual informed right crowd truly desire conflict, that would make things much worst, we just prepare for it. Nazis are left leaning though, not right. More time in the current state is more time to prepare.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 21 11:01:44 If nazis are leftist, why does nazis hate the left and why does the left hate nazis?
Turtle Crawler Admin	Tue Oct 22 18:45:41 Why do blacks and Mexicans hate each other? Same thing.
Forwyn Member	Tue Oct 22 18:55:41 "called anti-fascists fascists" It's convenient, just label yourself whatever you want and your actions don't matter. The People's Republic is an actual Republic, as we all know.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Oct 22 22:27:34 Yeah, it’s not a “Goebbels” trait to point out the obvious, so I don’t know what new depth of syphilitic spell Jergul is under at the moment. It’s a pretty simple point that Antifa is a group of fascists and that their name is a false one designed to shield them from their actual (fascist) intentions. “Patriot Act” also comes to mind — I guess it’s a pretty patriotic thing!
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 00:44:24 CC Repeating things to make them seem true is classic Goebbels. Too bad only part of his diary has been recovered. So much you could have learned has been lost. Sad. Feel free to continue saying that antifa is fa. As many times as you feel you need to make it seem true.
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 00:45:57 Did you name one of your cats Blondi? Just curious.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Oct 23 01:08:57 Lol, Jergul apparently thinks that a group which forcibly suppresses the free speech rights of those with whom they disagree via masked mob violence, intimidation, and weapon assault (clubs, rocks, and OC spray) and which bases its violence on its own regimented brand of an acceptable public discourse is not a fascist group. Jergul is such a fucking joke who should kill himself to save the world the accumulating mistake of his entire wasted and insignificant life :D
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 01:23:15 Me things that one of CC's cats is indeed called Blondi. Me also thinks BB should read up on fascism to get some primers on what it actually is. Me finds sloth in all its forms unseemly, and would prefer CC's repetitions until something seems true to her to be at least a little easier on the suspension of disbelief. http://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 01:24:34 Ah yes, bloodbags. The association was just a bit too strong. Feel free to correct the BB to CC in above post.
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 02:07:44 Re death. CC of all people should at least consider the lol factor. Middle-aged man dies in Northern-Norway (yawn). High-strung woman dies alone. Is eaten by her cats (lol). She would probably get at least 1 extra, though inadvertent, tribute thread in these forums.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Oct 23 06:08:52 lol :D Jergul is too precious! Bless his heart! I've said that I'm done talking over that idiot, but then he says these totally retarded things and I'm compelled to point out what a fucking idiot he is — this time it's *too* easy! :D .. [Jergul]: "Me things that one of CC's cats is indeed called Blondi ... High-strung woman dies alone. Is eaten by her cats (lol)." Like, here's an early ad hominem. Jergul isn't someone who has a good mental work ethic, so instead of using logical arguments, why not attempt to provoke with an ad hominem? Too bad he knows nothing about me, so it just makes me lol at how inaccurate the attempts have been. Like, this idiot once thought that I was a short-order cook. lol... Not that there's anything wrong with that profession, but this isn't someone who's looking at evidence to support his conclusions. The more his mind erodes, the more hilarious his mental processes become :D .. [Jergul]: "Me also thinks BB should read up on fascism to get some primers on what it actually is." And the icing on the cake! Now Jergul feeds me a source that helps me make *my* point and defeats *his* own. Fucking hilarious. :D First up: [Jergul source]: "Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including ... For these and other reasons, there is no universally accepted definition of fascism." So right off the start, we know that there exist many types of fascism which can differ greatly and that while there exists a list of commonalities for popular types of fascism, that list is by no means a set of solid prerequisites — saying so would be a fallacy of division. Even so, these apply to Antifa: • "contempt for electoral democracy" Trump was *elected* President, but how big do you think the overlap is between Antifa and resistance democrats (DNC-affiliates who want the election results revoked)? • "contempt for ... political and cultural liberalism," Liberalism, as per Jergul's Britannica source, is "political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics." How much does it enhance the freedom of individuals to deny those individuals their freedom of speech by using violence, intimidation, and assault? And does it honor individual liberty to apply opportunistic damage to the private property of individual citizens (the looting and destruction that accompanies their mob activities)? • "a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites," Elites such as the Clintons, perhaps? Hierarchy by subjugating the opinions of others via violence? • "the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation." Sounds about right. The individual interests of the people that Antifa protest do not matter to Antifa, because in their vigilante mindset they have decided what version of "community" they prefer, and it is one of silencing through violence the liberty of other citizens so that only their voice remains. • "Fascists reacted to their opponents with physical force." Too easy. .. Then more examples (Bracketed [CAPS] for emphasis): [Jergul source]: "[Some see fascism as] a 19th-century backlash against the ideals of the [ENLIGHTENMENT]. Some find fascism deeply [IRRATIONAL]." Hmm. That sounds familiar: an aversion to Enlightenment logic. Irrationality. That comes up a lot in post-modernism, but where else have I read that before.. Oh yeah! Here it is on the wiki page for Far-Left Fascism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism (And oh shit! Do you think Jergul bothered to check to see if far-left fascism even existed? I bet this fucking idiot thought that an absolute prerequisite of fascism was that it had to be far-*right*! Oops! No, no! He's not *that* much of a retard, is he?) [Frankfurt School scholar cited on Wiki]: "Historian Richard Wolin has used the term "left fascism" in arguing that some European intellectuals have been infatuated with post-modernist or [ANTI-ENLIGHTENMENT] theories, opening up the opportunity for cult-like, [IRRATIONAL], anti-democratic positions that combine characteristics of the left with those of fascism." Wow, anti-democratic positions? Like Antifa's silencing of democratic principles of free speech? Cult-like? Like the violence cult of Antifa? Leftist principles combined with fascism? Irrational use of *actual* violence to stop a *perceived* threat? And "Some attempt to explain fascist demonologies as the expression of irrationally misdirected anger and frustration" (Jergul source) — kind of like Antifa being an irrational demonstration of anger and frustration at Trump's election that indeed (factually) exploded following the election? It's almost like... Jergul is a fucking idiot. No, no! That can't be right! Jergul must be smart, because he thinks he's smart! If only *I* could read (like Jergul clearly read his own source), then I too would believe Jergul as much as Jergul believes Jergul! ;D
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 08:17:24 Wall of text. You care too much. But we all knew that. There is a checklist that characterizes fascism. Anti-fa simply does not qualify. A disdain for *parliamentary* democracy. A disdain for a two party system is easily within the pale. But I see I have degraded your position from anti-fa = fa, to anti-fa having some anti-democratic positions. Now go play with your cats.
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 08:41:12 Common characteristics of fascist movements Opposition to Marxism Opposition to parliamentary democracy Opposition to political and cultural liberalism Totalitarian ambitions Conservative economic programs Corporatism Alleged equality of social status Imperialism Military values Volksgemeinschaft, a racially unified and hierarchically organized body Mass mobilization The leadership principle (fuhrerprinsip) The “new man” Glorification of youth Education as character building Decadence and spirituality Violence Extreme nationalism Scapegoating Populism Revolutionary image Antiurbanism Sexism and misogyny http://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism/Extreme-nationalism For the entire checklist. Each has a few paragraphs if you want to check out what they mean.
Turtle Crawler Admin	Wed Oct 23 10:23:07 Sexism and misogyny, I'm sold!
jergul large member	Wed Oct 23 10:37:13 TC Characteristics. Cherry picking does not a fascist make, so you will have to do better than merely sexism and misogyny :-).
Turtle Crawler Admin	Wed Oct 23 15:13:09 Shit, well I tried.
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