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Utopia Talk / Politics / Keystone pipeline leaking all over
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Fri Nov 01 12:15:53
Remember Intimate Domain was used to seize these land and it permanently ruins farmland.

http://www...JLcZ6eASGAvPoXsopMO2IzoljpLRc4

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — TC Energy’s Keystone pipeline has leaked an estimated 383,000 gallons (1.4 million liters) of oil in northeastern North Dakota, marking the second significant spill in two years along the line that carries Canadian tar sands oil through seven states, regulators said Thursday.

Crews on Tuesday shut down the pipeline after the leak was discovered, said Karl Rockeman, North Dakota’s water quality division director. It remained closed Thursday.

The Calgary, Alberta-based company formerly known as TransCanada said in a statement that the leak affected about 22,500 square feet (2090 sq. meters) of land near Edinburg, in Walsh County.

The company and regulators said the cause was being investigated.

“Our emergency response team contained the impacted area and oil has not migrated beyond the immediately affected area,” the company said in a statement.

TC Energy said the area affected by the spill is less than the size of a football field and that the amount of oil released — 9,120 barrels — would approximately half fill an Olympic-sized swimming pool.

North Dakota regulators were notified late Tuesday of the leak. Rockeman said some wetlands were affected, but not any sources of drinking water.

Regulators have been at the site since Wednesday afternoon monitoring the spill and cleanup, he said.

Crude began flowing through the $5.2 billion pipeline in 2011. It’s designed to carry crude oil across Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and through North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri on the way to refineries in Patoka, Illinois and Cushing, Oklahoma.

It can handle about 23 million gallons daily.

The pipeline spill and shutdown comes as the company seeks to build the $8 billion Keystone XL pipeline that would carry tar sands oil from Alberta, Canada, to refineries in Texas. The proposed Keystone XL pipeline has drawn opposition from people who fear it will harm the environment.

President Donald Trump issued a federal permit for the expansion project in 2017, after it had been rejected by the Obama administration.

Together, the massive Keystone and Keystone XL network would be about five times the length of the trans-Alaska oil pipeline.

The original Keystone has experienced problems with spills in the past, including one in 2011 of more than 14,000 gallons (53,000 liters) of oil in southeastern North Dakota, near the South Dakota border. That leak was blamed on valve failure at a pumping station.

Another leak in 2016 prompted a weeklong shutdown of the pipeline. The company estimated that just under 17,000 gallons (64,350 liters) of oil spilled onto private land during that leak. Federal regulators said an “anomaly” on a weld on the pipeline was to blame. No waterways or aquifers were affected.

In 2017, the pipeline leaked an estimated 407,000 gallons (1.5 million liters) of oil onto farmland in northeastern South Dakota, in a rural area near the North Dakota border. The company had originally put the spill at about 210,000 gallons (795,000 liters).

Federal regulators said at the time that the Keystone leak was the seventh-largest onshore oil or petroleum product spill since 2010. Federal investigators said the pipeline was likely damaged during installation during 2008 and may have occurred when a vehicle drove over the pipe, causing it to weaken over time.

North Dakota’s biggest spill , and one of the largest onshore spills in U.S. history, came in 2013, when 840,000 gallons (3.1 million liters) spilled from a Tesoro pipeline in the northwestern part of the state. The company spent five years and nearly $100 million cleaning it up.

The Sierra Club said the latest spill was an example of why the Keystone XL should not be built.

“We don’t yet know the extent of the damage from this latest tar sands spill, but what we do know is that this is not the first time this pipeline has spilled toxic tar sands, and it won’t be the last.”

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders took to Twitter on Thursday to condemn the pipeline and Trump for supporting the extension of it.

Sanders said he would shut down the existing pipeline if elected.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 01 12:39:51
"Intimate Domain"

I laughed :)
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 01 12:43:37
"Remember Intimate Domain was used to seize these land and it permanently ruins farmland."

That is indeed a problem. Unfortunately, that problem pales in comparison to the alternative, which is to cave in to environmentalist extremists and deny ourselves the energy supplies we depend on.

To see the harm that far-left environmentalist policies cause, one only need look at New York, where the Democratic government has blocked the construction of a major gas pipeline and instituted a ban on fracking:

"National Grid Isn’t Providing New Gas Hookups in New York

Utility says it cannot process requests in New York area until a stalled pipeline wins approval

July 24, 2019 5:26 pm ET"

http://www...ookups-in-new-york-11564003583

I would rather have energy and the occasional accident than no energy at all. Perhaps IBTY thinks differently on this matter.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 01 12:47:46
http://www...fshore-wind-farm-new-york.html

Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 01 12:54:14
Jergul

Wind energy accounts for 2% of US energy consumption.

Natural gas accounts for 31%.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Nov 01 13:08:37
Mmmmm chopped up eagles. So clean. Much greta. Vote aoc!!
hood
Member
Fri Nov 01 13:42:07
"We can only transport oil and natural gas via the most volatile long distance system, pipelines. No other system exists. All hail the pipeline."

-rugian

Also,

"Somehow these resources would have gone somewhere else if we didn't build a leaky pipeline."

-rugian



Mind you, all of this is hilariously false. Nobody was going to send the resources elsewhere. We still would have gotten all of the energy materials we needed. So don't fall for the extent bullshitery provided by the bullshit troll.
hood
Member
Fri Nov 01 13:42:54
Extent = extreme. Damn phone.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 01 14:07:50
Hood,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the alternative means of overland oil transportation are trains and trucks. How exactly are either of those more environmentally safe solutions than a pipeline?

Also, the idea behind blocking pipelines is not that the energy ends up being used elsewhere, but that it ends up being used by nobody at all (although of course Canada would easily be able to find alternative customers for its supply).

TL;DR, you're way off base here.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 01 14:08:37
"In the U.S., 100% of our natural gas is shipped by pipeline. 70% of crude oil and petroleum products are shipped by pipeline. 23% of oil shipments are on tankers and barges over water. Trucking only accounts for 4% of shipments, and rail for a mere 3%. In Canada, it’s even more lopsided. Almost all (97%) of natural gas and petroleum products are transported by pipelines (Canadian Energy Pipeline Association)."

http://www...pipeline-or-boat/#1517ed667b23

Hood: wE cAn JuSt NoT uSe PiPeLiNeS aNyMoRe
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 01 14:13:47
Ruggy
Yepp, and wind should be about 20%. No point investing in infrastructure that will decrease its total share of US energy consumption.

You might as well be outraged over a stunning lack of stables for the horse based transportation network.

You are such a luddite.

Sammy
Sea based wind turbines avoid a lot of issues.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 01 14:25:08
jergul,

That's a ridiculous comparison. Horse carriages are functionally obsolete; natural gas and oil are not.

By all means, I'm in favor of building wind energy projects that are economically viable. Don't get me wrong on that.

The problem is that if wind energy could be delivered to consumers at the same cost for the same benefit as fossil fuels, energy producers would have already done so for now. The fact that they haven't is an indication that it isn't. Wind energy simply cannot meet the levels of demand that natural gas and oil do.

By the way, as long as we're complaining about intimate domain, how many square miles would it take to support a wind farm that could supplant Keystone's production? I'm guessing a lot.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 01 14:27:54
Also

"No point investing in infrastructure that will decrease its total share of US energy consumption"

Is just so silly and detached from reality. If an area is experiencing an energy shortage and fossil fuels are the best solution for said shortage, we should forego the obvious solution so as to not dilute renewables' share of the energy market? Rubbish.
hood
Member
Fri Nov 01 14:35:22
Rugian,

The alternative to pipeline is indeed train and truck, however truck is not long distance carry. Pipelines are far worse pollutants and spill far more oil/gas per distance traveled than train. They are, empirically, the worse choice vs. rail.

Your suggestion that resources would go unused if not transported by pipeline is absolutely fucking nutty. What do you think we did before pipelines were built?



Basically, you're empirically wrong and too retarded to even bother verifying your wildly off base opinions. Feel free to go back to the threads we had before the pipeline was built to find the breadth of evidence I had posted supporting my facts. Or, alternatively, you could attempt to find facts supporting your statements.
hood
Member
Fri Nov 01 14:36:13
Note: TransCanada is not a valid source. Their statements were proved false well before the pipeline was completed.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 01 15:17:14
Ruggy
Are you doubting that the fossil fuel fraction of total energy consumption will continue to fall?

Wow.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Nov 01 16:03:58
Hmm. Sucks that the USSC expanded eminent domain to commercial enterprises. Thanks, RBG.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Nov 02 01:44:28
There's something severely mentally wrong with cuckservative nowadays. There non-stop defense of Trump's obvious transgressions and deep submersion into fake news networks has completely rotted their minds.

All of their shit arguments would be laughed at in almost any public venue outside of some hillbilly white evangelical church.

Sad.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 12 12:47:52
Ive heard of eminate domain.... "Intimate" domain sounds dirty...
smart dude
Member
Tue Nov 12 13:13:30
I've never heard of eminate domain
Allahuakbar
Member
Tue Nov 12 13:25:50
Did someone of you fill a bucket?
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 07:59:07
Fuck yeah!

The latest Keystone Pipeline oil leak is almost 10 times worse than initially thought

http://www...ttps%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FodObtHFuoO
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 25 18:12:03
So the leak is on about 4.5 football fields worth of land. Still the same amount of oil spilled it just spread more than they first thought.

They estimate 8,037 barrels of oil has been recovered out of the 9,120 spilled.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Nov 25 18:34:18
there are no numbers it could've been where you'd have cared
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 25 19:07:36
yeah, you missed that one. Of course I care, just putting some perspective to it.

You need to remember I was a wildlife photographer for a while and still enjoy photographing nature. I have been a member of both the National Audubon Society and World Wildlife Fund and I support a few local groups that are preserving habitat and providing information to farmers/ranchers to help the environment.

The 10 times worse was misleading information so I cleared things up.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 19:15:39
The 10 times worse was misleading information so I cleared things up.”

It is horribly unfair to use your own imbecility like that. How is that anyone else’s fault that you suddenly felt misled?
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 19:17:03
I say that with all due respect, of course, People here do need to always remember that you were a photographer.
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 25 19:51:48
I didn't feel misled because I read this story a few days ago. I was clearing it up for people that didn't/won't read the article.

You are welcome.

And you haven't meant respect for anyone for a good decade now. You are just bitter because you got called on your bullshit.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 20:08:05
“ I was clearing it up for people that didn't/won't read the article. ”

Indeed, this is the clearing up quote -“ Still the same amount of oil spilled it just spread more than they first thought. ”

Since the article says the same thing, you understand why I alluded to your imbecility
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 20:10:12
I forgot to mention the photography background, something that UP posters should remember when engaging with you, fuckin dumbass.
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 25 20:47:06
"Since the article says the same thing, you understand why I alluded to your imbecility"

" I was clearing it up for people that didn't/won't read the article."

How deep in the bottle are you?
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 20:53:47
You cleared up the article by explaining that the article is correct, but adding that people (without the photography background) will be misled. Why are you being hostile?
Forwyn
Member
Mon Nov 25 21:12:19
Man. Sucks that liberal justices decided that megacorps can petition the government to steal people's land to make way for shitty leaking pipelines
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 21:22:15
I blame Thomas Jefferson
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 21:23:44
Should have stfu, keep fucking his slaves and leave governing to a wise kings.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Nov 25 21:41:56
"2,500 square yards of land were affected by the spill."

Ohhhh damn thats like the size of my driveway. So fucking horrible. A whole driveway.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Nov 25 21:49:14
Initial reports of the leak released by TC Energy and North Dakota's Department of Environmental Quality estimated about 2,500 square yards of land were affected by the spill.
Now, they have both revised the size of the impacted area to 4.8 acres, or 23,232 square yards -- that's almost ten times the original estimate.“

As a former oilman, I say that almost 10 sams driveways is acceptable price to pay, for any shitty spill. if anyone comes up with other number, to determine what is acceptable price to pay, I will listen
Forwyn
Member
Mon Nov 25 23:06:57
"I blame Thomas Jefferson"

I know you're trolling, but that would be retarded, even for you, considering TJ wanted even stronger private property rights protections - he advocated for outright allodial ownership.
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Nov 26 00:48:18
No wise king would have allowed magacorps to steal people's land to make way for shitty leaking pipelines, this is known. But no, TJ had to start his revolution, along with others, and look what happens, now that kings are gone, and the shitty Republic is in place. Honestly, is anyone shocked? Now, you might say TJ didn’t mean it, but then, we don’t want to speculate who meant what, like what the “liberal” justices meant (I am 99% sure that if I spend 10 min googling, I’ll discover conservative justices and politicians supporting eminent domain too) when they issued their verdicts.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 26 02:04:52
The irony of shipping bitumen through pipelines. Its solid in ambilent temperatures, so could be shipped as bricks (with solidifier) by rail or truck.

But no, it has to be turned into synthetic crude and shipped by pipeline instead.

http://www...-bitumen-Design_fig1_271014300

jergul
large member
Tue Nov 26 02:06:19
Peanutbutter is about 20 times more viscosic than bitumen at 15C.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 26 22:18:19
The state quotas for fireproof roofing have not been met, so in order to meet schedule pressure, we shall cover our reactor hall in bitumen. Long live lenin!

-jerguls uncle, ukraine SSR, 1981.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 26 22:19:54
"I say that almost 10 sams driveways is acceptable price to pay"

Ya. Free tar too. Lol.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 26 22:46:16
Sammy
The pipeline might as well have been a Stalinist project for all the sense it makes.

Crony capitalism at its finest:

"Although it sounds counter-intuitive, refineries can actually make more money by processing heavy sour crude. Over the past 10 years, most refineries in the Gulf Coast and US Midwest have been modified into high-conversion facilities. These refineries crack and coke the heavy crude "bottoms" into high-value products, removing all traces of sulphur to produce expensive low-sulphur fuels. These highly complex facilities are specifically designed to process heavy sour feedstock, such as Western Canadian Select. In fact, refining margins are better with heavy crude feedstock than lighter oil."

http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/technical/product-streams
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