Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Sat Jan 18 13:34:46 PST 2020

Utopia Talk / Politics / Is America really our friends?
Paramount
Member
Tue Dec 17 13:22:13
Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline faces sanctions under US defense bill

Washington pushes ahead with sanctions against the gas pipeline, claiming it strengthens Russia's grip on EU energy markets. In Germany the move is condemned as an "unfriendly act" to promote US commercial interests.

Under efforts to halt the construction of the $10.5-billion (€9.6-billion) Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, US lawmakers have imposed sanctions targeted primarily at companies providing pipelaying services to the project. The provisions were adopted on Wednesday as part of the 2020 National Defense Authorization Act, which is an annual Department of Defense policy bill aimed at covering measures unrelated to defense.

The legislation gives the Trump administration 60 days to identify those companies and individuals providing such services, and allows for the revocation of US visas and the blocking of property of these individuals. It also gives 30 days to those targeted by the sanctions to wind down their operations.

Nord Stream 2 is close to completion and largely follows the route of the existing Nord Stream conduit which already delivers gas from Russia to Germany for distribution across Europe. The new pipeline is expected to double the capacity for gas to 110 billion cubic meters annually. Proponents argue the gas will substitute for coal in Europe's energy mix and provide a back-up for renewable sources such as wind and solar power.

US lawmakers have repeatedly criticized the project, saying it would allow Moscow to sidestep gas transit via Ukraine and give Russia's energy giant Gazprom an export monopoly to European energy markets.

Republican senator Ted Cruz said in a statement that the bill, if signed into law, would safeguard Europe's energy security and prevent Moscow from obtaining billions of dollars "that could be used to fuel Russian aggression."

After approval by the House, the US Senate will now have to vote on the bill, which will then go to US President Donald Trump for signing.

[...]

The German government has long prepared for sanctions and says it "rejects extraterritorial sanctions that affect German and European businesses."

Matthias Schepp, managing director of the German-Russian Chamber of Commerce, has been terser in his rebuttal, rejecting Washington's claim of a Russian stranglehold on the European gas market as a "fallacious argument."

"A sober look at the facts clearly shows that we are less dependent on Russian gas than the Russians are dependent on hard currency from its gas exports to Europe," he said in a statement Thursday, adding that America would only seek to sell its more expensive Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) in Europe.

Schepp called on the government in Berlin to prepare countermeasures against Washington, which should also include imposing European sanctions.

The German Eastern Business Association (OAOEV), a trade and commerce body, spoke in a similar vein, saying US interference in the pipeline project should be regarded as "more than an unfriendly act."

"America wants to sell its liquefied gas in Europe, for which Germany is building terminals. Should we arrive at the conclusion that US sanctions are intended to push competitors out of the European market, our enthusiasm for bilateral projects with the US will significantly cool," OAOEV said in a statement Thursday.

http://www...der-us-defense-bill/a-51641960


Perhaps the EU should start to use American mafia tactics and sanction Americans and American companies who doesn’t do what is in the interest of European business.

Also, if the US is so worried about that EU and Russia can have a good relation and make business together, then maybe the US should pay for and fund all of Nato entirely by itself.
jergul
large member
Tue Dec 17 13:44:27
I dunno. Can you spell friends with the letters found in America First?
Paramount
Member
Tue Dec 17 13:57:53
“ The German Eastern Business Association (OAOEV), a trade and commerce body, spoke in a similar vein, saying US interference in the pipeline project should be regarded as "more than an unfriendly act." ”


Will this mean war?

And if it does I guess Russia and EU will be allies? Maybe even China will join, seeing an opportunity to crush America (a payback for Hong Kong etc)?
Daemon
Member
Tue Dec 17 14:22:11
I have begun combat training with a legal knife:
https://knife-blog.com/german-knife-law/
"Knives that can be legally possessed and carried

-Fixed blades with blade length under 12 cm (4.72 in.) can be carried visible or concealed. The measurement is taken from the tip to the most forward parts of the scales, the length of the sharp edge is not important.
-Folding knives that can be opened with one hand and do not lock the blade.
-Folding knives that ca be opened with two hands only and lock the blade."


Make no mistake: we will fight for our cheap russian gas!
Paramount
Member
Tue Dec 17 14:24:48
We are not even allowed to wear a knife in Sweden, unless you are a carpenter, which I’m not. But nothing stops me from wearing combat boots.
Habebe
Member
Tue Dec 17 15:21:55
Paramount, Are you serious about the knife thing?

As for the main story I should point out that this is no just Trump policy this was also a previous Obama era stance. It also goes further than the executive branch as this was just about unanimous in Congress.

That said here is my question?

I've heard on DW that they were saying that US LNG is not "competitive" but in the same statement was saying US gas comes from fracking making it hard to sell to the euro-market.

The reporter went on to say that While US gas was cheaper much of that savings was eroded due to the costs liquifyng , shipping and reverting it back to gas but still gave the impression that even with all of that US gas was still cheaper.

So my question is this is US gas uncompetitive because it actuallu costs more due to all processing OR is it that Euros dont want gas that was obtained through fracking?

I suppose a trans-atlantic pipe line is out of the question.
patom
Member
Tue Dec 17 15:34:06
Under Trump, who knows if there is such a thing. How many so called long time friends has he thrown under the bus.
Habebe
Member
Tue Dec 17 15:36:53
Paton, Again this os not a Trump only stance but almost all if not all of Congress supports this.

Obama was also againat this pipeline.
Paramount
Member
Tue Dec 17 15:54:32
Habebe

” Paramount, Are you serious about the knife thing?”

Yup.

” The Act on Prohibition of Knives and Other Dangerous Objects, (1988: 254) often abbreviated the Knife Act, is a Swedish law that prohibits the possession of knives and certain other types of objects in public places.”

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knivlagen
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Dec 17 16:08:12
Tue Dec 17 13:44:27
I dunno. Can you spell friends with the letters found in America First?

No, but you can spell "Fist me".
Habebe
Member
Tue Dec 17 16:17:13
As a man who owns nearly 200 fore arms and who keeps numerous shotguns on the walls ready for quick use ( not loaded the ammo is kept nearby but tucked away) I have difficulty wrapping my head around it.

While landscaping my property I usually keep a shot gun with me...this summer alone I had to kill nine copperheads. ( I moved down to SC)
Habebe
Member
Tue Dec 17 16:19:09
That was to paramount btw.
TJ
Member
Tue Dec 17 16:49:18
One only needs to look in a mirror.
Nekran
Member
Wed Dec 18 00:36:35
"this summer alone I had to kill nine copperheads."

Had to... right...
Forwyn
Member
Wed Dec 18 01:03:51
I mean...you typically don't want camouflaged, venomous pit vipers investing your property.

Killed a few dozen black widows this summer, but bring on all the kingsnakes and house spiders you can muster.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Dec 18 01:04:04
Infesting, too
Habebe
Member
Wed Dec 18 01:22:54
Nekran , You relize these are not Gardner snakes but highly poisonous snakes 5 of which were literally within a few feet of my house ( there was some overgrown bushes and old roofing debris they decided to nest in.... I suppose I could have waited until they attackes me or my family instead of pumping out some bird shot .....
jergul
large member
Wed Dec 18 02:40:23
Pest control did not typically suggest shooting them. Looks like you have some maintenance work to do on your property :).
jergul
large member
Wed Dec 18 02:41:36
That was not a jab. You did say you recently moved to NC. Things take time.
Habebe
Member
Wed Dec 18 04:23:23
Jergul, I moved down to SC june first, my family has been down here since 2006. Long story short my dad has a bunch of health issues including having only one leg, so many maintenance issues across the the properties ( my sister and bro in las property borders my parents)

As a matter of factor week ago tonight I drove my dad to the hospital at like 3 am...he is still in there but should be home soon.
jergul
large member
Wed Dec 18 05:38:40
I actually kind of figured. It sounded like that kind of thing. Nice of you to look after father (whats his face on netflix had his show on that topic yesterday).

For clarity. Knife and gun restrictions here in Scandinavia rotate around honourable purpose. You can carry what you want if you need it for something. Including ceremonial 8 inch blades to decorate national costumes (reindeer slaughtering/utility blades).

I put my first dog to sleep at 15 with an old krag-jørgensen. To name one example.
jergul
large member
Wed Dec 18 05:40:46
heh. Your move seems to correspond with more activity in this forum.

SC's social scene must really suck :D.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Dec 18 07:20:19
" put my first dog to sleep at 15 "

who was 15, you or the dog?
jergul
large member
Wed Dec 18 08:32:10
Both. More or less (I don't really remember how old the dog was). And put down*. Sleep was not quite the word I was looking for.
Habebe
Member
Wed Dec 18 10:26:32
Jergul, yeah it's relativley desolate .....especially since I was in Philly.
Habebe
Member
Wed Dec 18 10:28:58
I mean ive been comimf to these forums since junior high ( I used to actually play utopia) but it goes in spurts over the last 20 years.
Habebe
Member
Wed Dec 18 10:48:07
Anyway back to the point ,

What's up with the tap pipeline...it seems to be pushed by the US but only to counter the Russians since its not us companies

Also in Germany's defense they just agreed to triple its purchases of US LNG
Habebe
Member
Wed Dec 18 10:48:07
Anyway back to the point ,

What's up with the tap pipeline...it seems to be pushed by the US but only to counter the Russians since its not us companies

Also in Germany's defense they just agreed to triple its purchases of US LNG
Daemon
Member
Sat Dec 21 02:44:16
POS

http://www...d-stream-2-pipeline/a-51759319

21.12.2019

Trump signs off on sanctions against Nord Stream 2 pipeline
Paramount
Member
Sat Dec 21 09:22:19
Still no sanctions on Saudi Barbaria?
show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message:
Bookmark and Share