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Utopia Talk / Politics / official BS by delusional fraud POTUS#20
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 13:47:50
@TJ: you are on the crazy list unless you can say it's wrong for the PRESIDENT to claim the heads of the FBI were dirty cops with NOTHING coming to that conclusion including a specific investigation into them

last chance... this is an obvious thing to declare as wrong

as to whether they may be dirty cops, i assume you are waiting for corrupt AG Barr's report (the guy who disagreed w/ Mueller even though Mueller did the actual investigating & the guy who disagreed w/ the IG even though the IG did the actual investigating)... plus the reason Barr got the job was by writing a long paper on why he felt Trump couldn't obstruct...

why is corrupt AG Barr the one who has to be believed (assuming he even claims someone was dirty)?

before Mueller report released, he provably misled the country w/ his answer as to whether OLC opinion was a factor in Mueller's conclusions... it 100% Clearly No Doubt was... he told a deliberately misleading story implying it wasn't relevant at all... it's on tape... to reporters & congress

but in any case, what Trump said is WRONG, as again, NO conclusion whatsoever to back it up at all

the lying team of shitbags continue to pretend the IG report fully backs up all of Trump's TOTAL bullshit lies


and to any crazy person, please detail the FBI's plan to corruptly get a FISA on Carter Page as their means to bring down Trump (this is also under the claim there was no collusion & FBI knew it, so the FISA isn't going to yield anything to support it)
how was it going to work? and what went wrong?
TJ
Member
Wed Dec 18 13:55:53
I find it laughable that you believe I'm concerned about being on your crazy list.

Do I need to repeat what I said in the previous thread?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 14:02:42
you said you hadn't joined anyone, so assumed you didn't want to be on the crazy list

like kargen you seem unwilling to acknowledge the obvious, so are on it

if you want to wait for Barr's to judge the FBI members fine, still makes Trump wrong for doing what he's done & will continue to do without needing any actual evidence & EVERYONE should be able to notice it

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 14:06:27
i wonder if Pence is feeling sad about all these R's saying Dems are trying to subvert the will of the voters
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 14:12:12
team Trump/Fox are super upset that Schiff said there was evidence of collusion before investigation concluded (well, there -was- evidence, but lets ignore that)

compare to Trump declaring the heads of the FBI as dirty cops before anything showing that... not saying there's evidence of something, just flat out claiming they committed crimes & pondering how much jail time they deserve (& he's done it repeatedly)

total silence on that from those same people upset at Schiff

TJ
Member
Wed Dec 18 14:21:01
BTW, I'm waiting for the U.S. Attorney in Connecticut to Review Origins of Russia Inquiry.

I'm kind of fond of facts. He has far more leeway than the IG had during his investigations and has opened a criminal investigation. We don't know who or even which political party is involved. I'm I to assume you have no interest?

My position has nothing to do with what Trump has said or will say in the future. I simply want justice and lawful adherence to prevail.
TJ
Member
Wed Dec 18 14:22:33
Am I to assume*
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 14:53:30
if someone finds legitimate evidence i will consider it

Trump is not waiting, he has been tossing out criminal allegations all along, then a report comes out backing NONE of what he claims yet he pretends it did... think of it, what tweet/comment would he have to change if the report had been the exact opposite of what it was? ... none

and he pretends Comey has admitted to some crime too when Comey acknowledges he was wrong about his faith in the FISA process

it's disgusting

if you want to remain silent on your opinion of that behavior for some reason, that's your choice i suppose

all the silence is what lets Trump continue
TJ
Member
Wed Dec 18 14:58:37
A difference of opinion is what allows Trump to continue, not silence. You think the debate on the articles of impeachment is silence?

I'll say it again: The Constitution is working as intended.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 15:02:47
what is the difference of opinion?

what is Trump's evidence of these crimes? what crime did Comey admit to? what crime did the IG report allege?


if any other PRESIDENT claimed someone had committed crimes, there would be expectation of arrests occurring. But not w/ this one... no one's surprised arrests haven't occurred. His words are meaningless... NOTHING he says can be believed... it's ridiculous.

TJ
Member
Wed Dec 18 15:04:17
Trump isn't any other President.

I'm done in this thread.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 15:06:27
indeed he is not... not really a president at all

----------

Georgia's Rep:
"When Jesus was falsely accused of Treason, Pontius Pilate gave Jesus the opportunity to face his accusers. During that sham trial, Pontius Pilate afforded more rights to Jesus, than Democrats have afforded this president in this process."

he's referring to the whistleblower... nothing in the articles of impeachment relies on the claims of the whistleblower
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 15:11:11
here's Trump praising Pelosi, & saying she should've impeached Bush for lying to get us into war, & that Clinton impeachment was nonsense

http://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1207387098136940556
Habebe
Member
Wed Dec 18 15:11:14
Trump isn't any other president. Why? He is somwthing different and he is far from politically correct which is a big reason why he was elected. Bill Maher has wvwn said it's one of if nor his sole redeeming quality and yet most of the anger and outrage seems to be " omg he said this or that"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 15:18:01
he hasn't changed his lifestyle since becoming our fake president... he watches Fox opinion shows for his information (or worse fringe sources), tweets about it, & golfs on weekends

there is no issue he has ever seemed informed on

every time we hear from people who worked around him it's the same: he's unprepared, doesn't pay attention, has TV's going all the time, has crazy ideas

we saw his 2 calls w/ Zelensky, he didn't say a single thing suggesting he had prepared. we saw the White House readout of what he was supposed to have talked about, none of it happened

as noted last thread, he undermines all our institutions w/ lies and ALWAYS to just make himself look better... he hasn't criticized the intel agencies on any issue other than ones where it conflicts w/ his personal wishes, same for media/judges/elections/everything

his lack of political correctness has not been my argument
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 15:21:24
recall the attempts at healthcare by the R's, he never knew a thing about any plan they put out

just always was in salesman mode saying it was great, they had substantial differences, he didn't know any

kind of an important issue

find an example of him seeming to know something about an issue (where not reading, poorly, off a teleprompter)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 16:28:26
you'd never know R's were present in the 'secret hearings that Dems held' by listening to these assholes

they pushed that notion at the time too

& no they weren't prevented from asking any questions that would yield relevant info (the only example that has been demonstrated was efforts to expose whistleblower)

so many of these people are garbage
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 17:06:10
here's Justin Amash, the R who escaped the disease-infected R party... shooting down the nonsense argument that there's no 'high crime or misdemeanor':

http://twitter.com/cspan/status/1207417355049017346


...also fuck you, to the R(s) claiming the witnesses were "cherry-picked: to fit Dem narrative... not one witness w/ knowledge on Trump's actions denied, all in fact were requested (& still being so requested)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 17:42:03
"there's only one person, on the other side of the aisle, who got 7 Pinocchios... no one on this side of the aisle got that"
~ capo Meadows

solid argument... we all know every claim by every person gets pinocchio ratings, thus whomever has the least must be the most honest person

i have never been given a pinocchio, btw

also, Politifact's "lie of the year" went to Trump's continual claims that the whistleblower report got it all wrong

go read it, explain how it's all wrong
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 17:44:28
*fewest... sorry Stannis
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 19:27:37
\o/
the trash pile Impeached on 1st article (abuse of power)

2 Dems voted no
the Independent (Amash) voted yes
at least one R voted yes... Ha! Bipartisan
a few votes still outstanding

a permanent historical stain on this walking permanent historical stain

2nd article coming up (obstruction)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 19:29:18
CNN speculating the 1 R yes may be an error

meh whatever, still bipartisan with Amash
Rugian
Member
Wed Dec 18 19:37:38
"a permanent historical stain on this walking permanent historical stain"

Not really. Now that Democrats have ensured that every future president will be impeached the second they lose control of the House, the stigma of impeachment is going to be significantly lessened.

You go out and celebrate tonight though, I'm sure you believe something was accomplished here (other than Democratic wish fulfillment).
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 19:42:58
that's just a scare tactic, impeachment won't be common, it was extremely well-deserved by Trump

---

Tulsi voted 'present' and the R yes went away, so just the 2 D no's and 1 I yes of note

On 2nd article, a 3rd D has said no, but passed too (some votes outstanding)
jergul
large member
Wed Dec 18 19:49:52
Ruggy
Exactly the same thing was accomplished as was accomplished against Clinton.

Its the same old. Except this president is going batshit crazy instead of maintaining the dignity of the office like the last one.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 19:52:57
And for the crazies, if this is all about being upset Hillary lost (as repeatedly claimed today by Rs) then explain Amash's vote, and why respected conservatives like George Will, George Conway, Bill Kristol, etc (theire are lots of them) all against Trump

Also, name respected ones who do support Trump... no one ever takes me up on that...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 20:03:52
every single R in the House has just said it's fine for the President to blanket ignore all subpoenas from Congress

(and, no, Obama didn't do that)

I suspect their view will change as needed
TJ
Member
Wed Dec 18 20:34:31
Felt compelled to respond once more.

Trump could be the first President impeached, reelected, and impeached in two different terms if the House and Senate maintain their current positions. "No one has done it before" Guess who I'm quoting? lol
kargen
Member
Wed Dec 18 20:53:29
"every single R in the House has just said it's fine for the President to blanket ignore all subpoenas from Congress"

No they pointed out the obvious. Congress and the executive branch are equal. When there is a dispute between the two there is a third branch of government that will decide the dispute. Democrats refused to send it to the courts so there was really nothing President Trump had to comply with.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 21:22:01
except he's not citing any valid argument, merely blanket obstruction

waiting a year to investigate a corrupt president who is just stalling for time is not a reasonable position

-----

he said "it doesn't feel like we're being impeached" at his rally... well his cult isn't being impeached, just him

another bullet hole in the "he said 'us'" defense on his favor request
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 21:32:55
another snippet from Trumps rally of lies & unfitness...

"
Trump goes after Rep. Debbie Dingell for voting for impeachment after he lowered flags for her late husband and longtime Rep. John Dingell. Then makes a joke at J. Dingell's expense, saying "maybe he's looking up" instead of looking down. Crowd reaction was not great
"

#beBest
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 22:26:55
the pro Trump dick on CNN says he believes Trump said ^that in anger and will regret saying it

yeah right...

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Dec 18 22:50:25
here's the full Dingell bit that I'm sure he regrets...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmH5qrmpcQ4

apparently the rotunda issue isn't even Trumps call, but he has to lie every 10 words or he explodes

Debbie Dingell has said it has upset her as it's her first xmas without him, yadda yadda, I'm sure Rs will just claim she's being opportunistic and doesn't really care her husbands gone or whatever

in any case, that suggests Trump will double down rather than show any regret... we''ll see

at Trumps funeral his children should allow people to urinate on the corpse for charity... assuming they have completed their court-ordered "how not to be a fraud in charity" training


tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 19 00:09:30
another standard fucked up tweet

http://twi...ump/status/1207508280207011841
it's a photo of Trump on the toilet w/ message:
"In reality they're not after me, they're after you... i'm just in the way"

and he considers it such a good message that it's what's 'pinned' at the moment
kargen
Member
Thu Dec 19 04:50:47
"another bullet hole in the "he said 'us'" defense on his favor request"

Sure if you leave out the part where he used the words "our country" before he asked could you help us.

"waiting a year to investigate a corrupt president who is just stalling for time is not a reasonable position"

That is why they should have involved the courts. There inaction is akin to sitting in a McDonald's hungry and thinking wow wouldn't it be nice if there was a way I could get some fries. They never walk to the counter and order the fries they just sit there thinking I'm still hungry.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 19 07:20:31
A police officer saying aloud about how nice it would be to have fries before dealing with the arsonist outside trying to set the franchise on fire.

Fixed!
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 19 07:32:41
jergul,

Sure, if in your analogy the franchise is spilling toxic waste onto the once-pristine land it occupies.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 19 10:11:32
Ruggy
Are you trying to suggest that Ukraine was once uncorrupted? It has been corrupt at least since the Kievian Rus. Probably before too, but details become scetchy as we move back towards Antiquity.

Corruption is so bad, it acts as Ukraine's last, best defence against invasion and occupation.

Anyone can occupy the Ukraine, but if you do, then you have the Ukraine.
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 19 10:14:48
Jergul,

You completely lost the plot. No one here was talking about Ukraine.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 19 10:15:13
"That is why they should have involved the courts"

going to courts is what waiting a year refers to... see Don McGahn, still working through courts for Mueller testimony

Trump's tax returns was started even before that i think, SC ruling not expected til ~June

=======================================

"
Sure if you leave out the part where he used the words "our country" before he asked could you help us.
"
no... it's a bullet hole in the whole idea...

just like his "how dare you vote to impeach me after i gave the full honors to your husband (that he earned & deserved) after his death" suggests maybe Trump IS the kind of dirtbag who'd withhold aid for personal reasons... the quid pro quo for White House meeting is laid out in texts, Ukraine knew exactly what they had to announce

and plenty of reason they also believed the aid was connected as they were asking about it, no one had any other answer, and Zelensky was set to go on TV soon (& we know they had already prepped out what to say w/ Giuliani), but he cancelled after aid released (after whistleblower forced Trump's hand)

but of course the R's have NO interest whatsoever in fact witnesses, not asking for a single one

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 19 15:45:05
i was in a rush this morning, but allow me to completely disprove the "us/our country" nonsense argument:

the call:
"
I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your weal thy people. ... The server, they say Ukraine has it....
"

by "country has been through a lot" he's talking about the Russia investigation... so he wants to 'help' the whole country by now investigating supposed Dem collusion w/ Ukraine? (w/ total nonsense information he's heard from who knows where, but not anyone in our intel community or other experts... his Crowdstrike beliefs are easily provably false info)

& no one but him is seeking that server

the R's when trying to defend him cited these things as supposed Ukraine meddling:
- ambassador writing an op-ed (no need for investigation)
- allegedly most members of parliament preferred Hillary over Trump (even more stupid than above, and again requires no investigation, it would be self-evident by Trump's campaign comments & isn't meddling)
- Chalupa & Black Ledger - both about Manafort receiving money & being a criminal (which was true)... & Chalupa started investigating him before he ever joined Trump team, & Chalupa already investigated by the Senate (R) committee...

i don't believe any R cited Crowdstrike as they aren't as stupid as Trump (or maybe retarded capo Nunes forgot to mention it in his idiocy)


if any more investigation needed done it would've been done, and if Ukrainian help was wanted, it would've been asked for... not requiring Trump to ask Zelensky to start an investigation w/ no involvement from us...


so no... he was not seeking this investigation to help our country... and him being grossly misinformed is another reason he is totally unfit that R's just ignore (& he remained [probably still remains] grossly misinformed as he repeated his Crowdstrike nonsense on Fox & Friends over a month after it was revealed to the world he had that nonsense info)

======================

to disprove other R defenses:

-Sondland call w/ 'no quid pro quo'
-Sandy from OMB being asked to research other countries contributions

both of those were in SEPTEMBER, whistleblower came out at the start of Semptember (the hold on aid started June, or by July 3 at the latest)

Trump would never say "quid pro quo"... (nor "i want nothing" for that matter), it's OBVIOUSLY after he saw the whistleblower report (not that he read it, but was told what was in it, as he can't read something more than a page). Also there's indication he still asked for the public announcements on that call even when saying no quo. It's obviously what he meant by wanting Zelensky to "do the right thing"... pretty sure that wasn't to 'solve general corruption'.


as for Sandy @ OMB, why is it September when he's finally asked to research other country contributions if that was the reason for hold? the aid had to be released by end of September or defaulted... all of July & August pass before someone says 'i guess we should look into this'?

seems a clear indication they were searching for a reason after whistleblower... Mulvaney even admitted in his confession they were concerned they were violating the law

=============

(also, how does Mulvaney accidentally confess, if it wasn't true... & he was very careful w/ his words if you listen)

part of Mulvaney's confession:

Q: "So the demand for an investigation into the Democrats was part of the reason that he ordered to withhold funding to Ukraine?"

Mulvaney: "The look back to what happened in 2016 —"

Q: "The investigation into Democrats."

Mulvaney: "— certainly was part of the thing that he was worried about in corruption with that nation. And that is absolutely appropriate."

Q: "But to be clear, what you just described is a quid pro quo. It is: Funding will not flow unless the investigation into the Democratic server happens as well."

Mulvaney: "We do that all the time with foreign policy."

----------

^that's some -really- weird things to say, if that investigation had NOTHING to do with the hold...

=================


any members of the Senate reading this are free to use my arguments to disprove R's continual nonsense :p

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 19 16:55:40
'former White House officials say' they think Trump got his Ukraine meddling beliefs from Putin... and it makes sense Putin would say it to the totally gullible moron, & Trump has never doubted anything Putin has said to him, so probably true

(a WaPo article)

certainly no reason to think it couldn't happen, Putin's word was sufficient for him to doubt unanimous conclusions by our intel agencies (as he's an absurdly unfit idiot child fraud)
kargen
Member
Thu Dec 19 18:06:44
"A police officer saying aloud about how nice it would be to have fries before dealing with the arsonist outside trying to set the franchise on fire."

Except there is no arsonist and there is no fire. There is only a guy sitting there hungry for fries.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 19 18:10:58
Russia was the arsonist in this analogy. Donbas is the fire.
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Dec 19 21:25:42
We now have an explanation for Trump's latest insensitive comment ;p

"Trump Claims He Knows John Dingell Is In Hell Because He Sees Window Into Terrifying Inferno Every Time He Closes His Eyes"
[Onion: News in Brief]
http://pol...s-in-hell-because-h-1840538904
"WASHINGTON—Clarifying controversial remarks he made about the deceased Michigan lawmaker last night, Donald Trump told reporters Thursday he can confirm the late congressman John Dingell is in hell because of the window into a terrifying inferno the president sees every time he closes his eyes. “Each night, when I lie down in bed, I feel the heat of eternal flames and hear the screams of the damned,” said Trump, explaining that he has gazed into the hideous abyss and seen Satan himself feasting upon the maggot-infested corpse of the long-serving former representative. “John’s definitely down there along with all the other poor souls crying out to be released from ceaseless torment. He’s always whispering that the fate awaiting me will be far, far worse than his, beyond anything I could possibly comprehend. Why do you think I barely sleep?” Members of the White House press pool were then seen running from the briefing room as the blood drained from the president’s face, his eyes rolled back in his head, and, using an inhumanly deep, guttural voice, he began to mutter strange incantations in Latin."
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 19 22:44:47
"Why do you think I barely sleep?"

this is another good point for the 'Kushner is Satan' theory that many people are talking about

someone should check Kushner's basement for Dingell's corpse... (or other horrifying things)

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 19 23:03:18
Trump retweeted an idiot that claimed Trump wasn't impeached yet, claiming it only applies if Senate or Supreme Court also agree
(this is false, Trump was impeached)

and Laura Ingraham apparently got the memo...
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMMveeQW4AIgPm9?format=jpg

keep telling the fragile idiot child he wasn't really impeached

Laura's complaints seem to be that it wasn't bipartisan (not relevant, plus Amash technically made it bipartisan imo... and i'm sure they still count the D who switched parties & pledged 'undying support' to Trump [totally normal thing to do] when saying the nay side bipartisan)

and she says because the articles not sent yet to Senate (after 1 whole day)... which they are making a HUGE deal out of even though no reason to believe she won't send them. Pelosi said she wants to know the process Senate will use before choosing impeachment managers... doesn't sound that crazy.


In any case, Trump has been impeached.
It is a fact.

kargen
Member
Fri Dec 20 02:16:28
"Russia was the arsonist in this analogy."

Well then that is just a piss poor analogy because it was decided no collusion.

I did hear a couple of people claim that the impeachment isn't complete until it is submitted to the Senate. There is no precedent for this either way as it has never happened. They claimed it is like a court case isn't over until the verdict is read. So it isn't that the Senate has to decide but that it has to be submitted to the Senate. I think he has been impeached but it is an interesting point.

Nancy has no say nor should she in how the Senate decides to handle things. The constitution is very clear on that. The House did their job and now she needs to let the Senate to theirs. How the Senate will proceed is entirely up to the Senate and no one else. Nancy has claimed she wants a fair and legal proceeding. If that were true this would be in the Senate now. She is butting in where the constitution says she has no right to.
It took only a few minutes when President Clinton was impeached for the articles of impeachment to be sent to the Senate. Articles of impeachment for President Johnson were sent the same day they were passed and the Senate started the hearing three days later. In neither case did the house have any say nor did they even ask what the procedure would be in the Senate.
Nancy has overstepped her authority.
jergul
large member
Fri Dec 20 05:40:20
The "not really impeached" argument sounds mostly like a desperate ploy to keep trump from ragequitting by way of attacking a nuclear power with nuclear weapons.
jergul
large member
Fri Dec 20 06:11:35
It is actually even unconstitutional as it gives the Senate the power to validate a House impeachment.

If it has to be submitted to the Senate, what then if the Senate refuses to accept it? Would Trump then not be impeached after all?

Would we need a Supreme Court ruling on that too, since there is no precedent?

Sometimes the wording of the Constitution is good enough. Impeachment is solely in the domain of the house.
kargen
Member
Fri Dec 20 09:43:03
Why would the Senate refuse to accept? Acquittal would be much better than no decision. Yeah I know what the constitution says. It isn't precise on what constitutes the House finishing the process. I'm thinking impeachment happens as soon as the vote is tallied. An argument could be made to the courts that the articles of impeachment must be sent to the Senate or that until the articles are sent the process of impeachment isn't complete.

All that detracts from the actual issue though. Why all of a sudden have Democrats decided to slow walk the issue? It was a grave matter that needed immediate attention before they took the vote.
They would have to be complete imbeciles to think they would be allowed to call a complete list of witnesses in the Senate hearing after the way they conducted the hearing in the House. They knew long before they finished the hearing how the Senate would handle things and are feigning outrage and indignation. The time for them to call witnesses was when they were calling the shots. No way they could have the brain cells it takes to tie their own shoes and not think going through the courts would be quicker than trying to make demands of the Senate.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 11:16:24
McConnell held up a Supreme Court justice for a year... was that by the book? he has no plans to do it in 2020, so apparently not


Trump has been impeached, & it was more media speculation than anything Pelosi has said that brought up this idea that she won't send it til she approves of the Senate process


for what it's worth i think Biden should come out saying he'd be happy to testify along with Hunter, if Bolton & Mulvaney testify

team Trump will hold this over him (misrepresenting the prosecutor removal + insinuating crimes w/ no evidence) all election, Biden should tackle it now so if it sinks him, it's before it allows the destroyer of truth to end America

i wouldn't be surprised if Trump would still be afraid to take up that offer
(it's not supposed to be up to Trump, but McConnell already said he's in lock-step w/ Trump's wishes... as he's a corrupt asshole)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 11:28:46
the "Christianity Today" editor in chief wrote an op-ed saying Trump should be removed (writer believes Trump did do what he's accused of in Ukraine) but also notes:

"The reason many are not shocked about this is that this president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals. He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationship with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone—with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders—is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.
"
---------

so, here's Trump's response:

"
A far left magazine, or very “progressive,” as some would call it, which has been doing poorly and hasn’t been involved with the Billy Graham family for many years, Christianity Today, knows nothing about reading a perfect transcript of a routine phone call and would rather.....

....have a Radical Left nonbeliever, who wants to take your religion & your guns, than Donald Trump as your President. No President has done more for the Evangelical community, and it’s not even close. You’ll not get anything from those Dems on stage. I won’t be reading ET again!
"

presumably "ET" is supposed to be "CT"... and "again" is to imply he used to read that magazine... because he's a TOTAL FUCKING LIAR

also no Dem is running on a "take your religion" platform, and you don't have to be on the right to be Christian (although one comment i saw from an idiot Trumper [or possible bot], claimed the magazine must be run by "liberals disguised as Christians")

of course, Trump fueling this bullshit as he ONLY EVER divides...

unfit


if Russia did plant a candidate, it would likely be someone mature & w/ knowledge of issues... & a person like that would never have the same success at destroying the country, no one else could get away w/ his ranting & raving w/ made-up bullshit
(so he's even worse than a Russian agent is my point)

feel free to counter-point
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 11:48:55
from editorial director at CT:
==============================

Friends: In truth and seriousness I am asking for your prayers for some of the folks who wrote letters in response to yesterday's editorial. Reading them this morning has been brutal.

So many folks have walked away from Jesus or his bride because they are so angry at Christian leaders who suddenly stopped preaching ‘character counts’ in 2016.

More troubling are the ones who have walked away from Jesus because they think Trump will better protect America. This one (and this is only part of it) is extreme but not much of an outlier:

---" You, as a believer in God, will crucify his messenger, and our modern day savior, President Trump? Who then will save us from the tyranny that will befall us? Jesus? Where is he now, when freedom depends on him? "----

Please join me in praying that ALL of us would learn what it means to “Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.” (Ps. 146:3)

And please join me in praying that ALL of us would be healed in our disappointments, angers, fears, and frustrations. Advent is a good time for us to pray, “How long?” and “Come quickly, Lord!”

I hate that this sounds like overly spiritual sweet inspirational Twitter. That’s not where I’m at right now. For different reasons so many of these letters make me want to vomit. But the Spirit is prompting “pray instead.” So I am. It’d be awesome if you’d join me. /END

~ Ted Olsen

==================================

Trump bringing a new Schism to Christianity

which side seems more Jesusy... hmmm...

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 11:55:14
"
STEPHANOPOULOS: Why did Trump joke about John Dingell being in hell at his rally last night?

current-piece-of-shit-press-secretary: "As we all know, the president is a counter-puncher. It was a very supportive and wild crowd. He was just riffing.
"

that dead guy had been hitting Trump hard

at least she's talking to someone not on Fox News... no expectation of a 'daily White House press briefing' ever again under this regime though
TJ
Member
Fri Dec 20 12:27:57
Do you know the biblical history of many or any characters in the Bible? I'll just provide a few.

Joseph came from such a dysfunctional family that his brother sold him into slavery.

Was Moses a stutterer and a murderer.

Was Gideon, who God chose to lead an army, a fear driven wimp?

Was Abraham a serious liar?

Was David an adulterer?

Like I posted in the other thread jergul posted.

Sinners pointing their fingers at sinners.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 12:50:09
do you feel all people have a completely clear understanding of Trump's total trash character?

no one has been tricked by him?


i don't know if this is a real person's belief or a troll, but certainly could be real if you listen to the cultists:
"
You, as a believer in God, will crucify his messenger, and our modern day savior, President Trump? Who then will save us from the tyranny that will befall us? Jesus? Where is he now, when freedom depends on him?
"

$-loving pastors have stood up for Trump, i don't see why others can't note he's a pile of shit to try to bring back sanity & moral values

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 12:53:24
"
I guess the magazine, “Christianity Today,” is looking for Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or those of the socialist/communist bent, to guard their religion. How about Sleepy Joe? The fact is, no President has ever done what I have done for Evangelicals, or religion itself!
"
~ ✞ TRUMP ✞
TJ
Member
Fri Dec 20 13:01:07
Trump is the result of a damaged and imperfect system not the cause.

Christians disagree with Christians.
Democrats disagree with Republicans.

Friends disagree with friends.

Elitists disagree with elitists.

Schools disagree with schools.

Institutions disagree with institutions.

Organisations around the world disagree with organizations.

Ideologies disagree with ideologies.

On and on I could go.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 13:10:41
Trump is uniquely garbage & purposely a divider on every possible issue he can find

see NFL kneeling...
TJ
Member
Fri Dec 20 13:11:19
I don't live in isolation.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 13:43:25
if you're agreeing with me, then good :p

=================

a constitutional lawyer guy has also claimed Trump not officially impeached until sent to Senate, so i withdraw half of my above complaints about Laura Ingraham, and switch my opinion to 'i dont care' as i watched the Pelosi presser & it was the media running w/ the idea she wouldn't send them over not her... they will be sent, and Fox News can run "Trump Impeached" headlines then if they want, and others can repeat it... can't have too many

=================

Trump voter:

An Iowa woman has admitted to authorities that she intentionally hit a teenage girl with her car because she was “Mexican,” police said Friday.

jergul
large member
Fri Dec 20 18:42:57
I am sure that woman will be arrested once the district attorney recieves the arrest papers and validates that an arrest has occured.

She is not arrested until the paperwork is submitted to the DA.

Because that is how the US system works now.

jergul
large member
Fri Dec 20 18:43:44
Also. One less Trump voter. It sounds like a felony.
obaminated
Member
Fri Dec 20 19:19:29
Tw how do you feel about pelosi not actually sending impeachment articles to the senate?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 20:46:46
I see no issue at the moment, it's certainly not the mountain it's being made out to be

someone noted under prior impeachments the House and Senate were controlled by same party, so there was no reason for conflict... so no precedents being broken, not that they would need to apply in such a rare circumstance anyway

the House has to pick managers of the impeachment so not unreasonable to want to know how Senate will run it
jergul
large member
Fri Dec 20 20:51:05
This should be a fun xmas. Full of tweets.

"President Trump is headed today to Mar-a-Lago for two weeks as White House aides begin drawing careful plans for the coming Senate trial.

There remain a number of decisions on Trump's legal strategy that are likely to be made within the Italianate walls of Mar-a-Lago: finalizing the legal team that will present evidence, determining who will make opening and closing arguments, and arranging who will go on television afterward to amplify the message.

Several officials have quietly expressed concern about the duration of the President's visit, reasoning that the longer he spends in the Florida sun, the more opportunity outsiders will have to influence him or for news coverage to infuriate him, as has happened over and over during his stays at the private club.

As Trump returns to Mar-a-Lago for the first time since being impeached, the risk — or hope, for some — is that the two-week stay will plunge Trump back toward his most reflexive behavior, bridling at his lawyers' and Senate Republicans' efforts to rein him in, people close to Trump said.

"That's the place where he gets the reinforcement. Whatever he wants to do or thinks is right, they say that's great. Nobody challenges him," said Laurence Leamer, the author of "Mar-a-Lago: Inside the Gates of Power at Donald Trump's Presidential Palace.""
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Dec 20 22:03:34
advisors yet again worried about the unstable moron child President who's easily influenced by others

totally normal stuff


meanwhile, he has tweeted an article that Putin sides w/ him about the impeachment

good to know

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Dec 21 13:54:36
regarding Trump's letter to Pelosi (which a Lou Dobb's guest compared to the Gettysburg Address)


"Mental health professionals read Trump's letter: A study in "the psychotic mind" at work"

http://www...in-the-psychotic-mind-at-work/

excerpt:
"
This letter is a very obvious demonstration of Donald Trump’s severe mental compromise. His assertions should alarm not only those who believe that a president of the United States and a commander-in-chief of the world’s most powerful military should be mentally sound, but also those who are concerned about the potential implications of such a compromised individual bringing out pathological elements in his supporters and in society in general. I have been following and interpreting Donald Trump’s tweets as a public service, since merely reading them “gaslights” you and reforms your thoughts in unhealthy ways. Without arming yourself with the right interpretation, you end up playing into the hands of pathology and helping it — even if you do not fully believe it. This is because of a common phenomenon that happens when you are continually exposed to a severely compromised person without appropriate intervention. You start taking on the person’s symptoms in a phenomenon called “shared psychosis.”
"

...so the brain parasite theory is actually shared psychosis
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Dec 21 19:05:43
an OMB email sent 90 mins after Trump's 'perfect' call saying to hold up Ukraine aid for unspecified reasons & telling recipients to keep this suspicious request quiet... (nothing suspicious about that):

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMVlDyvX0AAcMhp?format=jpg

let's see that referenced footnote
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Dec 22 15:21:45
"The FBI broke into President Trump’s campaign, spied on him, then tried to cover it up... It's a modern day coup."
http://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/1208818029578137602

OMG! Shocking!!! I guess every case that was done under these dirty cops should be tossed & all guilty verdicts overturned.

Thanks for keeping us informed, R's & Fox News!

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Dec 22 15:26:38
^ the quote from Kevin McCarthy (R's pick for their leader in the House... a lying sack of shit...)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Dec 23 18:42:29
Trump on windmills (which he has studied better than anybody):

http://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1208916201205833728

"the world is tiny compared to the universe" = WOW, he said an accurate thing... i can't for the life of me figure out what point he was making by it though

'they have to shut them off after killing a certain number of bald eagles' - this seems to be false (like most of what he says), but what a weird ass thing to make up...


so much mental illness & unfitness
Habebe
Member
Mon Dec 23 19:17:24
Yeah that windmill speech was....well it was amusing...but odd.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Dec 24 15:31:49
on Trump's call w/ troops:

Asked how he was spending his Christmas holiday...

“I’m at a place called Mar-a-Lago, we call it the southern White House,” he said. “I really pretty much work. That’s what I like to do.”

Less than an hour later, he had returned to the Trump International Golf Club.

http://ksl...-it-might-be-a-beautiful-vase/

nice snark on the golfing info placement :p

i can't even picture Trump working (in a normal sense)

Trump also admitted not having a gift for Melania yet... she must feel so loved.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Dec 24 16:35:21
good long essay on Trump by a smart person... establishes Trump's clear mental illness then analyzes all the effects of his fucked up mind on his decisions... plus some deserved criticism of Pompeo

http://the...gy-is-americas-foreign-policy/

smart people never write pieces about how great Trump is doing his job...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 26 12:11:33
Why Trump swears off planning

Trump’s fancy-free scheduling approach is no mistake. In "The Art of the Deal," he explained that he thought too much planning curbed his creativity and impeded his thinking. That philosophy is alive and well in the White House, according to more than half a dozen current and former officials.

Between the lines: Trump believes to his core, one former senior White House official told Axios, that he's better off not preparing for some meetings. He thinks preparation hinders his ability to read the room and act with spontaneity, this former aide said.

"I play it very loose," Trump wrote in 'The Art of the Deal."

"I don't carry a briefcase. I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can't be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you've got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops."

One of the key challenges for his staff: He doesn't like long or complex documents.

He'll skim newspaper articles, news summaries and bullet points, but hates anything longer. So his evening briefings look quite different from his predecessors'.

"Trump does review briefing materials, at least if you make it a point to have him do so," said a former senior White House official who has direct knowledge of Trump's reading habits. "But only if you talk and guide him through it as he's reading."

Trump receives national security materials and news summaries every evening. But the package is more visual than those of his predecessors, with screenshots from the Drudge Report homepage, pictures of his own tweets and snapshots of cable news chyrons from throughout the day, according to people who've seen Trump's nightly briefing packages.

http://www...5d-499d-b322-acde6b50268c.html

that's not a style... that's just an unfit idiot child president
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 26 12:31:51
"
When Pres. Trump was elected, I was hopeful he would bring our men and women home from endless wars like Afghanistan. Instead, he nearly doubled the number of troops there. Even after reductions, there are still thousands more troops there now than when Pres. Obama left office.
"
~ Justin Amash (the respectable R)


info seems to check out based on bottom of this wiki
http://en....f_U.S._troops_from_Afghanistan
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 26 12:40:38
You mean not an R, formerly fake R.
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 26 12:43:19
Not to mention, let's just remember the absolute meltdown the Beltway establishment and their collaborationist media have every time Trump dares suggest drawing down our presence in existing conflict zones.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 26 12:50:46
isn't he your kind of R? one who actually wants to reduce spending & bring troops home?

& Trump's incompetence isn't my fault... it was his choice to abandon all role in military decisions & merely tweet out his gripes rather than do his job

===================================

re: border wall

"
Morgan said that 93 miles of wall had been built so far during the Trump administration. At least 90 miles of that replaced existing structures, according to CBP figures - although Morgan argued during the briefing that all barriers built under Trump should be considered “new.”
"

http://www...al-official-says-idUSKBN1YL2FB

3 actually new miles!!!!! woohoo!

& i wonder how many of the 90 other miles were already scheduled for replacement before Trump
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 26 13:35:38
I don't know what kind of politics you think I actually hold, but I most certainly don't support any sort of R that tries to help bona fide socialists and anti-white racists achieve power.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 26 14:19:42
I think you worship, more than hold, a cult of personality, more than a kind of politics.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 26 14:29:44
Amash only wants Trump gone (as everyone should)... if a respectable mentally-fit adult R ran against the D, he'd support the R.
Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 14:31:47
Trumps strong support amongst his base is simple really.

I think many of them dislike some of his methods/ shit he says but at the end of the day that is overlooked because they are getting what they want on many issues, more than any other president in receny memory.

For years everyine left and right have said " we want a potus that gets shit done and does what he says"

Trump does that, Hes bringing home the troops, getting other wealthy countries to pay a greater share of NATO expenses and other stuff*, he redid NAFTA, he is getting China to concede things with trade, he is getting conservative judges in .and the economy is going well.

With all that his supporters are willing to over look some shit.
Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 14:34:16
The other thing is the dems dont seem to have a coherent alternative. What is the Democratic platform? Other than " getting rid of/stopping Trump"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 26 14:41:55
he's not actually bringing home the troops

he has no understanding of NATO funding (which is pathetic) but the agreement to raise it over 10 years was done before Trump (2014), he may have gotten them to accelerate that's about it (& his motivation is because he thought it gave us money or allowed us to spend less, neither is true...)

we don't know what's in the China deal yet (& them temporarily buying more pork is in their interest as their pigs have rampant disease, as one would expect)

and the judges have nothing to do w/ Trump, it's Mitch (& any R president, don't need an unfit mentally-ill child idiot liar fraud), same for the tax cuts

Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 14:44:21
https://democrats.org/

Its a picture of a bunch of young blacks with the statement.

"
We are fighting for a better, fairer, and brighter future for every American: rolling up our sleeves, empowering grassroots voters, and organizing everywhere to take our country back."

That could be anyone, reminds me of the Simpsons joke of the elephant running through the town.

He passes two signs. One says the Republicans have terrible ideas ( wall) and the other says the Democrats have no ideas.
Forwyn
Member
Thu Dec 26 14:44:34
After Trump is gone, leftist faggots will go back to whining about and deriding civil liberties/small-government politicians like Amash.

He's a useful ally for now, though.
Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 14:54:57
Tw, Even if he accelerated it, this is a popular thing. Its been a commin sentiment for years that the US foots too much of the world's bill at our own expense, not just for this but for many things.

Also the China deal isnt set in stone but its a start in the right direction and things take time ok bit he's making progress.

Your whole argument is " but, but its not as good as he makes it out to be"

But its still more than other Presidents have gotten done.

Plus hes good at selling it, like for, generally a terrible president, but he was good at selling it.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 26 15:13:36
Habebe
Sound to me like Trump is defining what people want.

"Good at selling it"

That is very true. He is good at framing the discussion. See the rest of this post for examples:

"Hes bringing home the troops"

And sending them out again.

"countries to pay a greater share of NATO expenses"

No. They are building up their own capacity, not paying more of what the US was spending. Also, when was that ever a thing people actively wanted?

Additionally, Putin is the one driving increases in military budgets, not Trump.

"he is getting China to concede things with trade"

What exactly has China conceded?

"and the economy is going well"

Its not doing particularly well against the backdrop of a 1.1 trillion deficit. And when did most Americans want a 1.1 trillion dollar deficit?

"he is getting conservative judges in"

That would be true of any GOP president.

"he redid NAFTA"

That too was a thing? And what was redone that was a wish for the American people?

kargen
Member
Thu Dec 26 15:14:09
Previously, Defense Department officials had said 8,400 troops were in Afghanistan as part of NATO’s Resolute Support mission. An additional 2,000 American troops, which military officials have not publicly acknowledged, are in Afghanistan to help local forces conduct counterterrorism missions.

The new count includes covert as well as temporary units, defense officials said.

The disclosure came after Defense Secretary Jim Mattis expressed frustration with how troops in war zones were counted. To get around Obama-era restrictions on the number of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, commanders sometimes resorted to ad hoc arrangements.
Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 15:27:56
Jergul,

"No. They are building up their own capacity, not paying more of what the US was spending. Also, when was that ever a thing people actively wanted?"

NATO is relatively specific, but in general there is a commin sentiment in the US that we contribute more than our fair share for international issues/ I institutions and foreign aid tnour own expense.

The biggest consession from China is the opening up of markets with out tech trading.Truthfully he may have just sped up something that has been in the works years but still thats something and he has sold it well.

NAFTA has been despised by many for years, especially in manufacturing areas and by Labour/left. But the right likes to see at least the premise of more US manufacturing jobs in this case in the Auto industry.

Again that sort of plays into the sentiment that the US saves the World at our own expense. This has been a common sentiment in public opinion since atleast the 90s.

Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 16:06:15
My General point is not argue each of these positions as my position that im here to defend ( that's ots own thread imo)

But to explain Trumps support.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 26 16:22:05
The distinction I am trying to make is that he is percieved by say 42.7% of the population to have met their sentiments on what must be done to achieve the state of MAGA.

Not that he has actually done jackshit beyond stimulous packages for an economy that was doing fine.

I have to say on China - he has what would amount to a memorandum of understanding if it had actually been signed. Not sure what to call it now A verbal understanding?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Dec 26 16:27:14
the NATO acceleration is probably because they see the US as an unreliable ally under this moron Russia-lover, not because Trump is good at anything

also, why is he not wanting to REDUCE our spending? he only wants to spend more on military
Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 16:32:34
Jergul, On China, its a verbal agreement with gestures of good faith.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 26 16:54:43
I was actually wrong.

Federal debt
2017 - 16606.9
2018 - 17865.0

So it increased by 1.264 trillion. Not 1.2 like I said.
jergul
large member
Thu Dec 26 16:55:20
gah 1.258*
Habebe
Member
Thu Dec 26 17:33:17
No doubt Trump unlike Republican classic says nothing about deficit spending.

And since many Reps are getting many things they like from Trump i think they are remaining silent.

I find it interesting that both the US and China (a major chunk of the global economy) have crazy high deficit spending.The US is I beleive worse though but still.
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