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Utopia Talk / Politics / irans top general
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Jan 02 19:35:37
In iraq was just killed.

In an airstrike.

By us.

Rofl.
Habebe
Member
Thu Jan 02 19:48:33
I heard two old heads talking about ot today. They also believed that Russia and China are backing Iran to go to war with us...they also agreed that the us should nuke Iran nd N. Vietnam.....I swear to god
kargen
Member
Thu Jan 02 19:54:34
If we had built the wall world war three wouldn't be about to happen.
Habebe
Member
Thu Jan 02 19:57:44
Special report om the news as i type.

They say it might mean war.....i hope not.
Rugian
Member
Thu Jan 02 20:17:20
Hoo boy. Strap in.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Thu Jan 02 20:23:30
Trump just went full retard.
Forwyn
Member
Thu Jan 02 21:22:48
Whoa. We just nonchalantly droned an airstrip at Baghdad International Airport?
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Jan 02 21:46:45
That fucking ahole deserved it.

But nonetheless its a bold move.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Jan 02 21:47:45
"We just nonchalantly droned an airstrip at Baghdad International Airport?"

An SUV with a few douches in it. Yup.

Reapers gotta reap.
Pillz
Member
Thu Jan 02 22:04:08
Nuke America.
Start with Boston.
Pillz
Member
Thu Jan 02 22:05:24
Sam would probably stroke out with happiness if Osama bin laden released a new video tape tomorrow too
Average Ameriacn
Member
Thu Jan 02 22:28:53
USA, USA, USA!

Mission accomplished

USA, USA, USA!
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jan 02 22:41:46
"
The US' act of international terrorism, targeting & assassinating General Soleimani—THE most effective force fighting Daesh (ISIS), Al Nusrah, Al Qaeda et al—is extremely dangerous & a foolish escalation.

The US bears responsibility for all consequences of its rogue adventurism.
"
~ Iran's foreign minister

...more professional than Trump could ever write
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Jan 02 23:23:18
One could also say that fucking with our embassy is also extremely dangerous & a foolish escalation.

I know you hate trump, and I personally think hes a retard, but we gotta have his back on this one. This is the first time in his term hes acting presidential.

The more I see the more I think this is a really solid move. Their top general, a terrorist supporter, in bagdhad, in the presence of a bad iraqi too, just after that bullshit embassy riot.

Caught and killed red handed. No collateral damage. Stone cold.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 00:00:07
I am actually mostly interested in Iraq's response to this.

The attack might be in serious contradiction to quite the array of cultural norms.

You may have just permanently lost an ally.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 03 00:26:13
The sunnis will love this and the shiits will hate it. Same as always.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 00:35:07
And the population breakdown between the groups?

Sunnis no longer have the disproportionate impact on society they once did.
Paramount
Member
Fri Jan 03 03:12:43
So an impeached president decides to kill a military commander of another nation, at the airport of yet another nation, without the approval of the congress?

It’s an act terrorism
It’s an act of war

How many Americans are going to die for this?

I think it’s going to sting.

I hope allying with ISIS and Israeli fascists is worth it for you.
seb
Member
Fri Jan 03 03:34:33
Probably a dumb move. The guy deserves it, but this is rather like if, in response to the sabotage of pipelines the US performed in the 80s, a Russian military unit in full uniform waving the Russian flag killed the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.

Sure, you can justify it: he's a soldier, they caught the US red handed attacking Russian civil assets - arguably a proportional response.

But the US is going to respond. And the Iranians will respond.

And few in the the rest of the world will regard this as proportionate response. Ultimately the US got itself into the Iraqi quagmire eyes wide open and against the warnings of most major powers, so there isn't going to be a huge amount of sympathy over the supposed trigger event of a mob attacking the US Embassy, let alone doubling down by effectively declaring war with Iran.

Iran will rage in the short term, it has few good options for over retaliation so I suspect lots of asymmetric measures. This will create pressure for further action.

International sanctions on Iran may collapse, Iran will in a very few years be very much like North Korea: effectively untouchable behind a small nuclear deterrent unless the US steps up major unilateral conventional operations.

So unless the US actually plans a major conflict with Iran (which would give Russia cover for further adventures, my guess in Ukraine), this seems to have backed the US down a strategic dead end.

Going to war with Iran is a fucking stupid move for the US. It will be a major drain on resources into capabilities of little use at a time when it is facing strategic challenges in South East Asia and Eastern Europe; and victory comes with little upside; and a great downside in that the best possible result for the US in a conflict, the collapse of the Iranian regime, allows ISIS etc yo flourish again.

And as Jergul points out, this is a huge humiliation for Iraq and may push them into Iran's pocket; and also likely to cause great concern to US allies hosting US forces.
Paramount
Member
Fri Jan 03 03:55:31
Lol, ISIS is celebrating America’s attack on the Iranian commander.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Fri Jan 03 03:57:08
Sam Adams
Member Thu Jan 02 23:23:18
"This is the first time in his term hes acting presidential."

Yes, very Presidential.

http://fai...ial-us-wars-afghanistan-syria/

They lied about Iraq. They lied about Libya. They lied about Syria. They lied about Yemen. The Afghanistan lies have continued for over 18 years. But this time... this time it's different.

Sam Adams
Member Fri Jan 03 00:26:13
"The sunnis will love this and the shiits will hate it."

Yes, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Saudi Barbaria will love it.
Allahuakbar
Member
Fri Jan 03 04:07:46
Death to America!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www...38/Leader-Soleimani-revenge-US

Iran Leader vows 'harsh revenge' following assassination of Gen. Soleimani
Friday, 03 January 2020


In a statement on Friday, Ayatollah Khamenei said the “cruelest people on earth” assassinated the “honorable” commander who “courageously fought for years against the evils and bandits of the world.”

His demise will not stop his mission, but the criminals who have the blood of General Soleimani and other martyrs of the Thursday night attack on their hands must await a harsh revenge, the Leader added.

“Martyr Soleimani is an international figure of the Resistance, and all the devotees of Resistance are now his avengers,” Ayatollah Khamenei said.

"All the friends and foes must know that the path of Jihad of the Resistance will continue with double motivation, and a definite victory awaits those who fight in this auspicious path," the Leader said.

“The demise of our selfless and dear general is bitter, but the continued fight and achievement of the final victory will make life bitterer for the murderers and criminals,” he added.

In his statement, the Leader also offered condolences to the Iranian nation and General Soleimani’s family, and declared three days of national mourning.

Later in the day, the IRGC spokesman General Ramezan Sharif warned that the US' "momentary pleasure" after assassinating General Soleimani will be short-lived, and will soon turn into lamentation.

He also said the IRGC is going to open a new chapter from now on and the front of resistance is going to set out a new starting point.



Following the Leader’s remarks, President Hassan Rouhani strongly condemned the attack, and said the US assassination will make Iran and other free nations more determined to stand against Washington.

“The martyrdom of the great commander of Islam and Iran, and the courageous commander of the Quds Force, Lieutenant General Qassem Soleimani, along with some of his companions especially the great fighter Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, by the aggressive and criminal US broke the heart of the entire nation of Iran and regional nations,” President Rouhani said in a Friday statement.

The assassination “doubled the determination of the great nation of Iran and other free nations to stand against and resist the excessive demands of the US and to defend the Islamic values,” he added.

“There is no doubt that this cowardly and evil move is another sign of the US’ desperation, inability and failure in the region, and the hatred felt by the regional nations toward this criminal regime,” Rouhani noted.

“The great nation of Iran and other free nations of the region will take revenge for this heinous crime against the criminal US,” he warned.



Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami also vowed that revenge will be taken against all those behind the assassination.

“Undoubtedly, this heinous crime which is a strong proof of the evil nature of the Big Satan, the arrogant US and it’s all-out support for terrorism in the region and Iraq, will be responded to in a crushing way,” the defense minister warned.

Earlier, former commander of the IRGC Major General Mohsen Rezaei also vowed a harsh revenge against the perpetrators.

Details of the attack

Speaking to Iran's state TV, the Iranian ambassador to Baghdad Iraj Masjedi explained that the US' missile attacks hit two cars transferring General Soleimani, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, and 10 companions and bodyguards from Baghdad Airport to the city at 1 am (local time).

According to Masjedi, all the passengers have been killed, and arrangements are being made for their return to the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Allahuakbar
Member
Fri Jan 03 04:09:11
The revenge has already started!!!!!

http://www...15242/Iran-summons-Swiss-envoy


Iran has summoned the Swiss charge d’affaires, whose country represents US interests in Iran, over Washington's assassination of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, decrying the attack as a "blatant instance of state terrorism".

Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Abbas Mousavi said on Friday that the Swiss envoy was notified of Tehran's "strong protest".

"He was told that Washington's move is a blatant instance of state terrorism and the US regime is responsible for all its consequences," he said.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Fri Jan 03 04:16:38
http://twi...lla/status/1212887470590877696
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 08:39:20
I like how this was a proportionate response.

Iran could now respond proportionately and kill say the commander of US Central Command.

Then the US could avenge that by responding proportionately and killing an Iranian contractor in Basra.
Paramount
Member
Fri Jan 03 08:45:13
Too bad that Iran doesn’t have strategic nuclear weapons and the ability to make precision strikes.
Paramount
Member
Fri Jan 03 08:50:14
Is it possible to hack or somehow disable US military satelites? If it is, Iran should do that. Make the US blind.

http://www.../Go-for-the-Eyes-Boo-404068207
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 09:12:24
Iran should do something that forces the Pentagon to divert money away from the wall and use it on military construction instead.

The US military has pretty much disabled itself. Heighted military security will mean a lot more base security and a lot less active movement anywhere Iran has reach.

I don't think the Arab Emirates should expect a US carrier making a port of call anytime soon to put it that way.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 09:13:50
Attacking a drone launch facility would actually be a proportionate response if Iran is willing to pull the trigger on that. The US has several within reach.
seb
Member
Fri Jan 03 09:19:55
Jergul: "arguably"
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 03 10:00:40
"They lied about Iraq. They lied about Libya. They lied about Syria. They lied about Yemen. The Afghanistan lies have continued for over 18 years. But this time... this time it's different. "

Politicians lie and often they overeach.

But this fucking hajji had it coming it. And then he goes to iraq to make it that much more legitimate and easy. Asking for it.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 03 10:06:15
What Iran should do is thank us for our mercy and our discretion and beg us not to do any worse.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 10:06:54
Seb
Well, in the context, anything is proportionate. Because that is how the word is being used.

Sammy
He had been their roving military diplomat/attache since 2005. Assigned to Iraq and Syria.

I think this is an example of overreach. There are reasons the US has always not done this earlier.
seb
Member
Fri Jan 03 11:23:13
Like the Russians killing the head of the CIA under Reagan because of American aid to the Taliban in Afghanistan.


Serious diplomatic no no.
seb
Member
Fri Jan 03 11:25:00
Jergul:

My point was to sidestep all the crap people will pull to try and argue this is proportionate as missing the point
Forwyn
Member
Fri Jan 03 11:30:40
"Like the Russians killing the head of the CIA under Reagan because of American aid to the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Serious diplomatic no no."

Which is a bit silly, kill 10,000 conscripts, but don't you dare touch our bureaucrat
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jan 03 11:56:32
Fox Business is fired up for more killing

http://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1213135110217912320

a good thing we have a leader who puts so much thought and effort into his decision-making
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Jan 03 12:14:01
This can only mean war.
seb
Member
Fri Jan 03 12:32:14
Forwyn:

Killing the decision makers in a state makes peace impossible. It's only silly if you ignore the system as a whole.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Jan 03 12:37:19
Soleimani forced peace in 2000, not by capturing Aquilas, but by killing several high-level Israeli officers.
Allahuakbar
Member
Fri Jan 03 13:06:56
You better run cowards!

http://www...n-iranian-leader-idUSKBN1Z20XW

BASRA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. citizens working for foreign oil companies in the southern Iraqi oil city of Basra were leaving the country on Friday, the Oil Ministry said, after a U.S. air strike killed a top Iranian commander in Iraq.

Hours after the killing of Iranian Quds Force leader Qassem Soleimani and Iraqi militia commander Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, who was with him, the U.S. embassy in Baghdad urged all its citizens to leave Iraq immediately.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jan 03 14:23:01
Trump (reading a teleprompter) praised our intelligence agencies saying best in the world

...they are just 100% wrong when it comes to Putin & MBS

do his idiot cultists notice his selective approval?
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 14:25:37
Tw
Trump opens his mouth and words come out. I don't think anyone expects consistency.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jan 03 14:29:10
CENTCOM != the CIA and the FBI.



Though I will concede the possibility that there are swamp creatures there as well. Particularly if any of them come out against Trump.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 03 14:48:21
Pretty good speech. Last few days have the best of his presidency.

Not that thats saying much.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 15:07:23
I seriously don't see the upside.

The US has put itself in a reactive position against some piss-ant ME country.

We all ask "What will Iran do now?". Way to show global leadership.
McKobb
Member
Fri Jan 03 15:08:28
Wtf, I go away for a little while and WWIII kicks off?
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 15:38:29
Mckobb
I just said Iran is a piss-ant ME country. How is that supposed to kick off wwiii?
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 03 15:43:45
Jergul. Thing is, most Americans don't want to be global leaders or global police....been thete done that....oddly enough Trump seems to be positioning himself to pull out of Iraq....im cool with that.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 16:44:00
If by positioning himself, you mean he wants the Iraqi government to tell him to pull out of Iraq, then sure.

The American people might get politicians more in line with their thinking that global leadership is not a thing.

You do get that the only alternative to global leadership is being one country amongst many, right?

A normal country. No manifest destiny, no American exeptionalism. Just a country amongst many.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 16:46:05
It would tank the crap out of your dollar. The implicit inflation of overinvestment in US currency related assets is 1920s Germany epic.

Nah, you just don't feel that nobless oblige(s) very much.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 17:04:03
In sum: Not wanting a global leadership position seems a bit coquette.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 03 17:04:42
Well its a good thing The university of Chicago's brilliant economist ( Milton Friedman) solved the problem of inflation.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 17:05:40
Yepp, if you like being like the Ukraine.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 17:09:36
I would just love to see Chicago School economics applied to the US.

Sammy woulds start teasing me about my 12.5% of global gdp by 2020 as being a wildly overstated opinion of the strength of the US economy.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 17:10:49
Shit, I said something bad. Please don't smite me with the credit financed strength of your mighty service sector.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 03 17:11:16
yay. Rant :D
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 03 17:54:20
And we just blew up another iranian militia convoy. Rofl!
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 03 18:05:02
" I would just love to see Chicago School economics applied to the US."

Me too.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Fri Jan 03 18:21:44
Sam Adams
Member Fri Jan 03 10:00:40
"But this fucking hajji had it coming it."

He's responsible for wasting more ISIS terrorists than the US.

"And then he goes to iraq to make it that much more legitimate and easy. Asking for it."

He was welcomed there by the Iraqis. Unlike the Americans.

Sam Adams
Member Fri Jan 03 14:48:21
"Pretty good speech. Last few days have the best of his presidency."

Sounding like Brian Williams.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jan 03 18:33:18
Pentagon's initial statement said it was to deter future attacks

but seems for it to be legal there had to be an imminent threat... so Pompeo & Trump both claimed there was an imminent threat... -maybe- there was... but Pompeo has no credibility & Trump has infinitely negative credibility

so we'll see how that plays out


Netanyahu in Palpatine-ish fashion is saying "good... good... the US has the right to strike out in anger just like Israel..." (technically he said 'to defend itself' rather than 'in anger', but obviously he wants to be able to blow up Iranians at will too, as well as to keep steering his idiot fraud child Jar-Jar apprentice)
Dukhat
Member
Fri Jan 03 19:03:25
Wondering what the political effect will be.

Pre-Iraq war, the MAGA crowd would've all been for it because they are shortsighted.

But they've born much of the cost of war already in terms of lives lost. Many voted for Trump because they saw him more dove-ish than Hillary.

No way would Hillary have done something like this. And if she did, she would have tried to de-escalate tensions with a diplomatic follow-up.

Is this the event that causes Trump's support to start to finally collapse to Bush-levels? Or is there a rally-around-the-flag effect?

Either way, I think he shot his load too early so to speak. Bush almost lost re-election because the positive approval bump from 9/11 was almost gone.
Dukhat
Member
Fri Jan 03 19:15:08
Oh yeah, and Iran's more moderate wing (yes, there is one) just got gutted by the strikes. Why make a deal when the US will bomb you if you don't have nukes?

Trump just gave more strength to the hardliners to pursue nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, he has no political capital to engage in a costly war in the middle east and follow up on these strikes.

We'll be paying for his mistakes for decades if not centuries.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Fri Jan 03 19:34:07
tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Jan 03 18:33:18
"but seems for it to be legal there had to be an imminent threat..."

After Libya, everything is "legal."
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 03 19:39:49
"He's responsible for wasting more ISIS terrorists than the US. "

Unfortunately for him, he did more than just fight ISIS.
Cherub Cow
Member
Fri Jan 03 21:17:55
“ Wtf, I go away for a little while and WWIII kicks off?”

Yeah, the meme market has already over-saturated with WWIII jokes. Baby Boomers won’t be going outside for days since they’ll need to spectate the CNN/Fox narratives. Shit’s lit, yo! ;)

..
[Jergul]: “ The US military has pretty much disabled itself. Heighted military security will mean a lot more base security and a lot less active movement anywhere Iran has reach.“

That was sarcasm, right?
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 03 21:27:45
Cherub, Honestly I actually enjoy jergul, but sometimes I think he just says shit to get responses.
jergul
large member
Sat Jan 04 00:38:57
CC
I was pointing to an irony more than being sarcastic.

We like to assume that the US military has stuff to do in countries it is "visiting".

Part of what it does is asset security, other parts are more outreachy.

Heighted tensions give a higher emphasis on base security and not exposing personnel to risks.

So yah, there is more huddling down inside bases instead of doing whatever they are paid to do off-base.
jergul
large member
Sat Jan 04 00:45:40
It might be clearer with a concrete example.

Imagine a US instructor embedded in an Iraqi recruit school. Do you think his instruction schedual is the same this week, or do you think he has been pulled and is now cooling his heels at the nearest US military base?
Paramount
Member
Sat Jan 04 04:20:33
” Pompeo & Trump both claimed there was an imminent threat... -maybe- there was... but Pompeo has no credibility & Trump has infinitely negative credibilit”


Look at how they don’t even bother to present any evidence any longer. And how the media and no one does not bother to ask for it. Today you can just claim something, anything. No checks and balances. Gone are the days of charades and drawing cartoons at the UN headquarters or in Congress.
Paramount
Member
Sat Jan 04 04:36:09
” Do you think his instruction schedual is the same this week”

I don’t see any American returning to Iraq anytime soon. They have effectivley pulled out from Iraq. Sure they still have their embassy, but for how long?
Average Ameriacn
Member
Sat Jan 04 08:34:35
Trump has much bigger balls than Bush!!!

http://www...ed-on-killing-qassem-soleimani



In fact, conscious decisions were taken under the George W. Bush administration, even when Soleimani was in the crosshairs, not to pull the trigger. Gen. Stanley McChrystal wrote last year, he had a shot in 2007 but let Soleimani go: “The decision not to act is often the hardest one to make—and it isn’t always right.”

Ali Khedery, a former U.S. adviser in Iraq, told The Daily Beast that not striking Soleimani when they had the chance was an “enormous frustration to me and many of my colleagues.”

“I remember during the [2007 Iraq troop] surge sitting with Ambassador Ryan Crocker and [Gen.] David Petraeus and saying, ‘Wouldn’t it be a shame if Soleimani ran into one of his own EFPs,” Khedery added, using the acronym for Explosively-Formed Projectiles, the Iranian-made bombs that killed dozens and dozens of American troops in Iraq. “But obviously, this was a decision that had to be taken by the president personally because of its implications.”

Under the Barack Obama administration, the assassination of the most famous general in the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps appears not to have been considered seriously.

There was never any manhunt, according to Derek Chollet, assistant secretary of defense from 2012 to 2015. “To my knowledge there was never a decision of ‘We’ve gotta go find this guy and get him.’”

Nobody could begin to be sure what would come next if Soleimani were killed, and no scenario looked good. And in those days the priority was stopping Iran from developing a nuclear weapon without having to go to war. The murder of Soleimani could have scuttled the negotiations.

The calculus was a fairly simple one, says Chollet: “Do the potential risks of taking an action like this outweigh the gain of taking him off the battlefield?” The answer was yes.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Jan 04 13:50:30
The IRGC are very embedded in Iranian economy and power structure, they are not going away. They have institutional resiliance beyond the death of one charismatic commander. QS was chosen by Khamenie to be this hero, because Iranian culture has a long tradition of hero worship (pre-islam) and it has been integral to Shiia Islam, amended by the highly ritual mourning of said heroes demise against unsurmountable odds. Troublesome 2020.
Allahuakbar
Member
Sat Jan 04 18:14:20
I can be very patient!

http://mob...ing/status/1213156118865813506

Urgent Quds Force Commander Ismail Qaani: We say to everyone, be a little patient to see the dead bodies of Americans all over the Middle East
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Jan 04 19:06:13
"
Iran has been nothing but problems for many years. Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!
"
~ obvious fraud

i'll guess 52 sites have not been targeted & he pulled that out of his ass as usual... hitting Lou Dobbs in the head on the way out...
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 04 19:07:12
Rofl love the 52 sites bit. Fuck iran.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sat Jan 04 19:15:42
"Troublesome 2020"

That's a rather serious understatement.
Forwyn
Member
Sat Jan 04 20:51:32
But are we Making Istanbul Constantinople Again?
Pillz
Member
Sat Jan 04 22:05:22
That'd make this worth it
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Jan 04 22:15:29
how decision was made (supposedly)...

TLDR: from Trump watching TV, same as Syria strikes, and most of his decisions really

-------------------

WASHINGTON — In the chaotic days leading to the death of Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, Iran’s most powerful commander, top American military officials put the option of killing him — which they viewed as the most extreme response to recent Iranian-led violence in Iraq — on the menu they presented to President Trump.

They didn’t think he would take it. In the wars waged since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Pentagon officials have often offered improbable options to presidents to make other possibilities appear more palatable.

After initially rejecting the Suleimani option on Dec. 28 and authorizing airstrikes on an Iranian-backed Shia militia group instead, a few days later Mr. Trump watched, fuming, as television reports showed Iranian-backed attacks on the American Embassy in Baghdad, according to Defense Department and administration officials.

By late Thursday, the president had gone for the extreme option. Top Pentagon officials were stunned.

Mr. Trump made the decision, senior officials said on Saturday, despite disputes in the administration about the significance of what some officials said was a new stream of intelligence that warned of threats to American embassies, consulates and military personnel in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. General Suleimani had just completed a tour of his forces in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, and was planning an “imminent” attack that could claim hundreds of lives, those officials said.

“Days, weeks,” Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Friday, when asked how imminent any attacks could be, without offering more detail other than to say that new information about unspecified plotting was “clear and unambiguous.”

But some officials voiced private skepticism about the rationale for a strike on General Suleimani, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of American troops over the years. According to one United States official, the new intelligence indicated “a normal Monday in the Middle East” — Dec. 30 — and General Suleimani’s travels amounted to “business as usual.”

That official described the intelligence as thin and said that General Suleimani’s attack was not imminent because of communications the United States had between Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and General Suleimani showing that the ayatollah had not yet approved any plans by the general for an attack. The ayatollah, according to the communications, had asked General Suleimani to come to Tehran for further discussions at least a week before his death.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Vice President Mike Pence were two of the most hawkish voices arguing for a response to Iranian aggression, according to administration officials. Mr. Pence’s office helped run herd on meetings and conference calls held by officials in the run-up to the strike.

Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper and General Milley declined to comment for this article, but General Milley’s spokeswoman, Col. DeDe Halfhill, said, without elaborating, that “some of the characterizations being asserted by other sources are false” and that she would not discuss conversations between General Milley and the president.

The fallout from Mr. Trump’s targeted killing is now underway. On Saturday in Iraq, the American military was on alert as tens of thousands of pro-Iranian fighters marched through the streets of Baghdad and calls accelerated to eject the United States from the country. United States Central Command, which oversees American military operations in the Middle East, said there were two rocket attacks near Iraqi bases that host American troops, but no one was injured.

In Iran, the ayatollah vowed “forceful revenge” as the country mourned the death of General Suleimani.

In Palm Beach, Fla., Mr. Trump lashed back, promising to strike 52 sites across Iran — representing the number of American hostages taken by Iran in 1979 — if Iran attacked Americans or American interests. On Saturday night, Mr. Trump warned on Twitter that some sites were “at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD.”

The president issued those warnings after American spy agencies on Saturday detected that Iranian ballistic missile units across the country had gone to a heightened state of readiness, a United States official said on Saturday night.

Other officials said it was unclear whether Iran was dispersing its ballistic missile units — the heart of the Iranian military — to avoid American attack, or was mobilizing the units for a major strike against American targets or allies in the region in retaliation for General Suleimani’s death.

On Capitol Hill, Democrats voiced growing suspicions about the intelligence that led to the killing. At the White House, officials formally notified Congress of a war powers resolution with what the administration said was a legal justification for the strike.

At Fort Bragg, N.C., some 3,500 soldiers, one of the largest rapid deployments in decades, are bound for the Middle East.

General Suleimani, who was considered the most important person in Iran after Ayatollah Khamenei, was a commanding general of a sovereign government. The last time the United States killed a major military leader in a foreign country was during World War II, when the American military shot down the plane carrying the Japanese admiral Isoroku Yamamoto.

But administration officials are playing down General Suleimani’s status as a part of the Iranian state, suggesting his title gave him cover for terrorist activities. In the days since his death, they have sought to describe the strike as more in line with the killing of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the Islamic State leader, who died in October in an American commando raid in Syria.

Administration officials insisted they did not anticipate sweeping retaliation from Iran, in part because of divisions in the Iranian leadership. But Mr. Trump’s two predecessors — Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama — had rejected killing General Suleimani as too provocative.

General Suleimani had been in Mr. Trump’s sights since the beginning of the administration, although it was a Dec. 27 rocket attack on an Iraqi military base outside Kirkuk, which left an American civilian contractor dead, that set the killing in motion.

General Milley and Mr. Esper traveled on Sunday to Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s Palm Beach resort, a day after officials presented the president with an initial list of options for how to deal with escalating violence against American targets in Iraq.

The options included strikes on Iranian ships or missile facilities or against Iranian-backed militia groups in Iraq. The Pentagon also tacked on the choice of targeting General Suleimani, mainly to make other options seem reasonable.

Mr. Trump chose strikes against militia groups. On Sunday, the Pentagon announced that airstrikes approved by the president had struck three locations in Iraq and two in Syria controlled by the group, Kataib Hezbollah.

Jonathan Hoffman, the chief Pentagon spokesman, said the targets included weapons storage facilities and command posts used to attack American and partner forces. About two dozen militia fighters were killed.

“These were on remote sites,” General Milley told reporters on Friday in his Pentagon office. “There was no collateral damage.”

But the Iranians viewed the strikes as out of proportion to their attack on the Iraqi base and Iraqis, largely members of Iranian-backed militias, staged violent protests outside the American Embassy in Baghdad. Mr. Trump, who aides said had on his mind the specter of the 2012 attacks on the American compound in Benghazi, Libya, became increasingly angry as he watched television images of pro-Iranian demonstrators storming the embassy. Aides said he worried that no response would look weak after repeated threats by the United States.

When Mr. Trump chose the option of killing General Suleimani, top military officials, flabbergasted, were immediately alarmed about the prospect of Iranian retaliatory strikes on American troops in the region. It is unclear if General Milley or Mr. Esper pushed back on the president’s decision.

Over the next several days, the military’s Special Operations Command looked for an opportunity to hit General Suleimani, who operated in the open and was treated like a celebrity in many places he visited in the Middle East. Military and intelligence officials said the strike drew on information from secret informants, electronic intercepts, reconnaissance aircraft and other surveillance tools.

The option that was eventually approved depended on who would greet General Suleimani at his expected arrival on Friday at Baghdad International Airport. If he was met by Iraqi government officials allied with Americans, one American official said, the strike would be called off. But the official said it was a “clean party,” meaning members of Kataib Hezbollah, including its leader, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis. Mr. Trump authorized the killing at about 5 p.m. on Thursday, officials said.

On Friday, missiles fired from an American MQ-9 Reaper blew up General Suleimani’s convoy as it departed the airport.

http://www.../politics/trump-suleimani.html

jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 00:04:18
"Convoy" lol. It was two cars. He was not particularly worried about assassinations in Iraq.

Hard to see how Iran is bound by the NPT while facing imminent and credible threats of attack by several nuclear powers.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jan 05 00:19:18
yo, all help just broke lose!!!!

Look at the news!!!!!










The just dropped the red flag!

You things are bad when flags change colors.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jan 05 00:21:21
Idk..up and cant sleep.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jan 05 00:34:51
"the NPT"

Can hardly expect a nation to adhere to non-proliferation agreements when their officials can't even adhere to travel bans
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 00:49:17
Maybe NK has a few dozen spare nukes it could lend Iran. Though ideally, Russia or China will step up and strike a nuclear deal like the one Turkey has with the US.

Needing a nuclear umbrella does not equate needing to build your own nuclear arsenal.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jan 05 02:49:55
Putin wouldn't even sell Iran S-400s, you think they're striking a nuclear deal?
Allahuakbar
Member
Sun Jan 05 04:20:17
The worldwide attacks against the USA have already started:

http://www...-u-s-forces-idUSKBN1Z404G?il=0

NAIROBI (Reuters) - Somalia’s al Shabaab Islamist group on Sunday attacked a base in Kenya’s Lamu county used by both U.S. and Kenyan forces and it published pictures of masked militants standing next to aircraft in flames, though the images could not be immediately verified.
Allahuakbar
Member
Sun Jan 05 04:22:43
http://www...tack-threat-idUSKBN1Z409A?il=0

“Like ISIS, Like Hitler, Like Genghis! They all hate cultures. Trump is a terrorist in a suit. He will learn history very soon that NOBODY can defeat ‘the Great Iranian Nation & Culture’,” Information and Telecommunications Minister Mohammad Javad Azari-Jahromi tweeted.




Iraq’s parliament was set to convene an extraordinary session on Sunday where lawmakers told Reuters they would push for a vote on a resolution requiring the government to request the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 04:31:41
Iran does not want to buy the S-400. Its still busy fully integrating the s-300 with its military industrial base (Iran has had the design specs for the system since 2007. The block on deliveries until 2015 did not really matter).

The same question goes for nuclear weapons really. It does have a decent conventional deterrent, and believes nuclear weapons are unusable.

Does it believe it might suffer a nuclear attack?

I am pretty sure it did not think that likely before someone killed a high ranking official in a targetted assasination.

So who knows what it thinks now?

Putin would be happy to deploy nukes to Iran as long as he got to keep the keys. I think he might if Iran otherwise suggests its only other option is an indigenous project.

It is amusing to escalate for as long as you think there is no response. But there always are responses.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jan 05 06:54:41
http://www...ite-retaliation-airstrike.html

So I guess they ( Iran) hacked a gov website to post a pic of Trump getting punched and rockets flying around.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 07:56:23
Pretty generic to link it to the assassination.
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 05 10:46:45
"I am pretty sure it did not think that likely before someone killed a high ranking official in a targetted assasination."

"High ranking official" lol. Okay, Ilhan.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And few games are as stupid as waging war against the Empire.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 11:04:26
Ruggy
I am not the one calling two cars a convoy.

I was unsure what to call him. A diplomat would seem the best description of his role the last 5 years at least. But it understates his domestic punch home in Iran.

Feel free to humour me and say what you find offensive about high ranking official and how that is not an apt description.

Speaking of games. Iraq just passed legislation expelling the US from the country.

So are you going to leave, or are you going to become an occupying force again?
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 05 11:15:35
"I was unsure what to call him. A diplomat would seem the best description of his role the last 5 years at least. "

You're a right pisser, you know that? Okay, sure. The brutalizer of Iraq and Syria, who is responbile for personally overseeing countless thousands of deaths in both countries (including, in Iraq, in the last three months alone), and whose killing prompted mass celebrations in both, was a "diplomat."

Whatever language you need to avoid confronting the fact that Iran is a state sponsor of terror, I guess.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 11:53:58
Ruggy
A senior official and diplomat for Iran. A country that sponsors terror.

Happy now?

Out of curiosity. What countries were you thinking of that do not sponsor terror?
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 12:06:34
Norway has like 70 terrorist trainers in Iraq right now and is spending a considerable amount on sponsoring terror.

Or were you thinking the cadets passing through the training camps will not be commiting terror against civilians relatively soon?

Areas with ISIS sympathies don't pacify themselves you know.

Other countries take sponsorship much more seriously of course, but I like to think we are doing our bit.
Pillz
Member
Sun Jan 05 12:08:01
Rugian trolling the wrong crowd
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 05 12:10:25
Pillz
He is merely trying to assert some place under the bridge. I am always happy to give him some elbow room.
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 05 12:20:43
Note how jergul, who has more or less condoned Suleimani's activities over the years, is now calling him a "diplomat." lol

Funny how quickly certain people are willing to piously proclaim that the US has no moral right to assert military strength in any part of the Middle East, but then turn a blind eye when Iran does the same thing in places as far away as Syria and Yemen.

Of course, this is just a reminder that jergul has always implicitly expressed support for some of the worst people on the planet, from Suleimani to Assad, because he is at heart an anti-American and by rooting for those people he hopes that translates to the defeat of the United States as an international power. His anti-Americanism must therefore be taken in context when attempting to explain the motivations behind any policy position he advocates.

It's entirely possible to think GWB committed a criminal act by going into Iraq and still be able to call Iran's atrocities for what they are. Although I do find it quaint that jergul thinks there is no difference whatsoever in the moral equivalency of Iran and the US.

The US is clearly better bro. If you were a citizen of Iran, you'd be hanging from a crane by now.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jan 05 12:26:07
Iranian state television reports that Iran will no longer abide by any of the limits of its 2015 nuclear deal.

hard to blame them... a nuclear-armed madman is threatening to blow up cultural sites after legally questionably assassinating a top general

btw, attacking cultural sites is a war crime under an international treaty supposedly
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