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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trumps motives: a thought?
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 06 10:40:36
Why kill this guy now?

1. Was an imminent* threat perceived?

2. Did he just look at it as this guy as being vital to keeping up Hezbollah and other terrorist groups?

3. I think the " wag the dog" argument to distract from impeachment is ridiculous.why distract from something that was benefiting him politically? Doesnt make sense.

4. Now ive not heard this theory, nor am I certain on the details of how this would work but given his economic policies i had a thought.

What if this was done to push for US self reliance on fuel and to somehow favor us supplies even more considering there is a glut in prices with the US currently with US shutting down plants...

5. Iran has attacked the US and has been saber rattling for some time with great excalation. This could have been a move to shown the political elites over there that we will not sit idly by and be bullied as well as pointing out that we have the capability of taking out anyone we chose. I think this is very likley as he came out saying " I want to prevent a war, I dont want to have regime change a la us military action" ( paraphrased)

By taking out such a high ranking official and following up with such statements I think this was likely the main* motive alongside the belief that he was vital to Irans proxy powers.

But idk that this had no economic influences either.


patom
Member
Mon Jan 06 10:48:24
Trump is like a squirrel on crack. Who the hell knows what his motive's are. In a minute or two they will be different.
Paramount
Member
Mon Jan 06 10:55:20
” Who the hell knows what his motive's are.”

Netanyahu.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 11:01:32
I think he was mad because of the demonstrations outside of the embassy and when given 3 options, he chose the most bloodthirsty one.

I think he has trouble distinguishing between himself and his office and took the demonstrations as a personal attack.

I think the positive re-enforcements he gets at Mar-a-lago fuelled his recklessness.

I think decisions he makes on his vacations where is a really a king will always be far more dangerous than the ones he makes at his office.

I think you think trump thinks way more than he does. He reacts. But that is not thinking.

Paramount
Member
Mon Jan 06 11:31:40
I don’t think it is explained that easy that Trump is waking up in the morning and watching the news and then he gets offended so he then presses a button so that a missile strikes a high level official of another country.

The reason why the Iranian general/diplomat was attacked is many. The reason why he was attacked now is because the time schedule has reached this point now. It’s all been planned.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jan 06 11:54:57
jergul is right

Trump saw the embassy attacks on Fox News and took it as a personal insult plus panicked about another Benghazi so picked the top option he knew about

just like he was insulted by Iraq wanting us out so he lashed out at them w/ sanctions threat
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 12:11:38
Para
Its almost that bad.

He sees something on the news.
He wants to do something
He is given options (typically 3)
He chooses one of them.


The options are often slightly manipulative to encourage the choice the planners think is appropriate.

Yes PM had a bit on it: 2 are essentially the same, the 3rd will inevitably lead to nuclear war with the USSR within 48 hours.

Trump opted for inavoidable nuclear war in that analogy.
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 06 12:19:32
"He sees something on the news.
He wants to do something
He is given options (typically 3)
He chooses one of them."

Where did you acquire such specific knowledge?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 06 12:20:07
He panicked, simple as that. There is no masterplan, no 4D chess, no nothing. This is so painfully obvious that I genuinely feel bad for the people who don't see it. It's like, dude, there is a turd in the punch bowl, right there, that is a fucking turd there are no two ways about it, and you keep drinking the koolaid.

The USA elected Donald Trump for president and the redeeming qualities he has fits inside a thimble, and he does have them. If your domestic politics was unrestrained from checks and balances like your foreign policy, your country would be on fire from a civil war.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 12:26:24
Habebe
"I think"

I said that like fourteen times in the post above that. It was inferred.

Do you think it went down any different from that?

At Mar-a-lago no less. Where? In Donald's suite over coffee and donuts? Or have they set aside a dedicated conference room?

Very gangsta.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jan 06 12:30:56
"This is so painfully obvious..."

agreed!
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 06 12:31:42
I like how no one in this thread so far has considered that "threatening to overrun a US embassy" might in and of itself be sufficient grounds for putting a designated terrorist into the dirt.

You fuck with US sovereign territory, you die. No need to speculate on "why now" or the like.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 12:32:27
The term they use for options is "packages" btw.

How could it have been any different? Trump does not read, so needs options presented him.

Trump tweets what is on his mind. Agree? How many tweets had he made about Soleimani before opting to kill him?

Do you think he even knew the guy's name before the briefing when he made the call?

Where are the "rocketman" slurs he would have thrown about if the fellow had been on his radar?

TJ
Member
Mon Jan 06 12:34:29
Congress will get a briefing on Wednesday. I guess we'll find out the motive for his decision at that point.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 12:46:22
TJ
Trump tweets you know. I am not sure why you think arguments put together by legal teams show his motives better than what Trump tweeted himself.
TJ
Member
Mon Jan 06 13:11:24
Nah, I didn't know that Trump tweets. That is as good as sarcasm gets in print. :)

The odds against him has been overly promoted, even before he took office. You think he'll be reelected? Trump 2020!

Everyone seems to think they are geopolitical and domestic experts. I get it, too many President's.
Average Ameriacn
Member
Mon Jan 06 13:13:44
Trump said years ago that he will break Iran to get a better nucular deal. That's exactly what he's doing right now, there's your grand strategy.
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 06 17:35:16
Rugian, I mentioned escalating violence from Iran in my initial post
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jan 06 17:45:18
'imminent threat' is pretty much off the table, when asked how soon this attack was expected, Pom-PEO said:

"If you're an American in the region, days and weeks, this is not something that's relevant. We have to prepare, we have to be ready, and we took a bad guy off the battlefield."

one hopes even if R's are fine w/ the guy being killed on questionable legal basis, they will at least be horrified that Pompeo & Trump would lie about imminent threats... (but of course, they won't be, just a charming feature of this 'unconventional' president...)

-----

Rand Paul is against this action... not willing to criticize Trump of course as he's corrupted, but saying Trump got bad advice

if you actually wanted troops pulled out & less wars you should've voted for the frizzy hair lil guy (+ he actually values knowledge! no longer a given in candidates)
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 17:52:12
Escalating violence from groups sponsored from Iran you mean?

You might want to be a bit careful attributing to a country what bad things groups it supports might have done.

Its perfectly obviousl that Suleimani rode the tiger of tribal arab interrelations. He had significant influence, but not absolute control.

It goes with the territory of how special forces work in relation to local groups.
kargen
Member
Mon Jan 06 18:23:00
Suleimani was becoming to popular in Iran and more a threat to Hassan Rouhani. Rouhani knew the US was looking for Suleimani and gave up his location. That is how we knew where he would be and when.
Rouhani gets the added benefit of now garnering more support for himself by speaking out against a common enemy and a perceived tragedy.
chuck
Member
Mon Jan 06 19:01:23
You are addled, kargen.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jan 06 19:04:28
we knew where he was as he wasn't hiding
kargen
Member
Mon Jan 06 19:37:48
Sure but how often in an isolated and easy to hot location?

Chuck my scenario is as viable as any other offered so far. News is saying the mourners numbered in what is usually associated with an ayatollah and a lot of people in Iran wanted him to run for president.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 19:39:31
So Rouhani drove him to Damaskus airport and jotted down the flight number? Is that how your scenario starts?
Dukhat
Member
Mon Jan 06 21:42:57
IMpeachment wasn't helping Trump. His approval rating improved slightly for a week as some "undecided" republicans moved to support him. Then it returned to what it was as people saw the facts and realized he was guilty.

It will only get worst the more facts get out which is why McConnell is gaslighting the country and trying to push for a sham trial and acquittal.
kargen
Member
Mon Jan 06 21:46:19
No he got him an Uber driver.

If Rouhani had been the driver he would be dead now.

You act as if the entire middle east is dependent on the pony express. Some of them have phones.
Dukhat
Member
Mon Jan 06 21:48:20
Trump's approval has spiked after the bombing of course. A very tiny "rally-around-the-chief" effect localized among Republican voters. Up to a sky-high 45% approval rating now in some polls.
kargen
Member
Mon Jan 06 22:12:25
that Dukhat is why I don't think this was a boost to President Trump thing. Really not a lot going on. Pelosi still hasn't sent the articles over and congress bickering about witnesses doesn't hurt the president one bit. If this were about a boost or controlling the news cycle President Trump would wait until there was something else going on. Right before Iowa would be more beneficial. Wag the dog usually means you are trying to detract from something. Not much to detract from right now.
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 06 22:45:22
Dukhat, Trump was gaining support amongst independents. Very few, as most peiple6 were not swayed either way.

Why start a war to cover up such a thing?
LazyCommunist
Member
Mon Jan 06 23:09:09
One day Trump will admit it:
http://twitter.com/robertjdenault/status/1213839075628716033

Fri. (12/27): we notify Deutsche Bank about our piece

Sun. (12/29): Trump + Putin have mystery phone call

Wed. (1/1): we tell DB we are publishing Fri.

Wed. (1/1): Trump decides to kill Soleimani

Thurs. (1/2): Soleimani assassinated

Fri. (1/3): we are cyberattacked



Deutsche Bank’s loans to Donald Trump were underwritten by Russian state-owned VTB Bank, according to the whistleblower whose collection of thousands of bank documents and internal communications have captured the recent attention of federal investigators
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 06 23:45:10
LC
The Senate hearing should definitely ask Hunter about that. It sounds fishy.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jan 07 00:11:13
Forensic News is not confirming the underlying claim that VTB underwrote Trump’s loans from Deutsche Bank.

Forensic News can, however, confirm that at least some of Trump’s loans were issued by a bank subsidiary with business ties to VTB. That subsidiary owed more than $48 million to VTB in 2013 and documents suggest the subsidiary continued doing business with VTB even after the bank was sanctioned in 2014.


Your link.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 07 00:35:46
It is unclear. A possible smoking gun. Hunter must be questioned. Did Biden influence the subsidiary, manipulate it to illegally buy up trump debt, and cause it to keep on to its holdings in a sanctioned bank in order to help Biden win the 2020 election?

These questions need answers.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jan 07 12:24:07
Russians use Trump properties for money laundering (he bragged about large profit from one sale to a russian, he's got multiple russian mobsters in his tower, he certainly has no concern for morals/laws, & i heard theory that russians would buy condos in new towers - which lets Trump say the building is in demand to other investors - russians then resell -- seems believable, not sure how much evidence)

Trump was in large debt, Russia bailed him out as he's so useful

explains why Trump is loyal to Russia, and without anything even hard to believe
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