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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trumps enviro. Policy non CC
Sun Jan 26 07:13:47
I'm leaving the climate change aspect out of this thread.

I'm weary of his loosening of National parks protections, but to be fair I don't know specifically what changed.Other than he has allowed pipelines and drilling through some areas.

The same goes for these new water policies.

From what I gather these policy changes have been able to let us become the world leader in Gas and Oil, which I like.

But, at what cost? Id say im conflicted however I dont really know what's different.

Does anyone have a link to what regulations have actually changed and or what is estimated to come of them?

Sun Jan 26 07:33:20
Sun Jan 26 10:23:27
"I'm weary of his loosening of National parks protections, but to be fair I don't know specifically what changed."

From what I'm aware of (although this issue admittedly hasn't exactly been fully on my radar), the latest "outrage" was a series of (currently unexecuted) proposals from an Interior Department committee that recommended privatizing some parks, allowing food trucks and Amazon deliveries into the parks, and eliminating the 50% senior citizen discount during the summer season.

There's also been previous gripes from environmentalists, mainly around:

-The Interior Department's attempts to clear out the DC bureaucracy, including by reassigning some senior officials and "deporting" others to field service

-Appointing some people who have been previously associated with anti-police land orgs

-Depoliticizing the NPS on the issue of climate change (including having them take down park signs like "This glacier will melt by 2020 if nothing is done to stop CC")

-Forcing NPS staff to seek approval from the Interior Department before issuing public opinions on neighboring developments

-Keeping the parks open during the government shutdown

-Bulldozing land along the border to make room for the wall
Sun Jan 26 10:35:36
Sun Jan 26 10:57:27
Habebe -

If you're looking for the actual changes Trump has made to increase energy production, the National Parks is probably the wrong place to start.

According to the administration itself:

"UNLEASHING AMERICAN ENERGY: President Trump is rolling back costly and burdensome regulations to unleash America’s incredible energy resources.

After years of stifling regulation under the last Administration, President Trump is unleashing America’s energy potential.

America is the largest crude oil producer in the world and production has hit a record high.

President Trump’s policies are helping to boost American energy exports.

The Administration has streamlined Liquefied Natural Gas terminal permitting.

In 2017, the United States became a net natural gas exporter for the first time in 60 years.

American coal exports increased by more than 60 percent in 2017.

President Trump is expanding access to our country’s abundant natural resources.

The President signed legislation to open up energy exploration in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge.

In July 2018, the Department of the Interior announced it would hold the largest oil and gas lease sale in history.

In 2017, the Administration approved construction of the Dakota Access pipeline and the cross border permit for the Keystone XL pipeline.

The Administration issued permits for the New Burgos Pipeline that will export American petroleum products to Mexico.

The President has ended the war on coal, cutting Obama-era regulations such as the “Stream Protection Rule” which was estimated to cost industries $81 million a year.

President Trump is replacing the Clean Power Plan, a flawed Obama-era regulation that the Supreme Court ordered halted.

President Trump rescinded the hydraulic fracturing rule, which was expected to cost the oil and gas industry $32 million per year.

The Trump Administration curbed the burdensome Obama-era rule on methane, saving American energy developers hundreds of millions of dollars in regulatory costs."


Also, the administration recently announced plans to allow fracking on a significant chunk of California state lands...obviously that would increase output, but I think he's also half motivated by the whole "California's at war with me so I'm now going to do everything I can to spite those fuckers" mentality.
the wanderer
Sun Jan 26 12:32:54
aside from wanting to harm the environment as fast as possible, exporting finite resources is stupid
the wanderer
Sun Jan 26 12:35:52
also as to...

"From what I gather these policy changes have been able to let us become the world leader in Gas and Oil"

we were the leader in gas & oil before Trump... but i have no doubt he is taking credit for it
Mon Jan 27 07:58:04
Rugian, I know of the pros, and im glad they are in this discussion too.Because its all a balance. I support all this expansion and think its one of the main reasons why the economy is still strong. I would jist like to find out as complete of a list of specidics as I can and have the corresponding pros and cons.

Tw, We were not. November of last year the US became the #1 oil producing nation on earth.

NG was 2017 iirc. Also LNG sales habe gone up a lot in part to Trumps policies.

Mon Jan 27 09:33:01
When Trump has himself installed as God/Emperor/King. There will be no way to know what effects his policies will have on the environment as no studies will be allowed.

Flint's water may very well be rated as the best in the country.
Mon Jan 27 10:14:50
Trump doesn't know what he's doing so he does what he's always done, go for the quick buck. And when the fails in the middle to long term, he leaves someone else with the bill.

I mean, it's literally all he's ever fucking done.
the wanderer
Mon Jan 27 11:58:14
we've been top "oil & gas" since 2014
top gas since 2010
top oil since 2017 (although very close in 2015)


i don't think anyone disputing he is totally in their corner & will let them do what they want... he has open contempt for the environment

just during election i recall there being ~3 instances of him mocking environmental concerns (& NEVER having any of his own of course)... now that the gullible easily-manipulated idiot child is in office & putting soundproof booth-loving oil/gas people as head of the EPA, who knows all the damage done

plus people have told him toilets & dishwashers don't work (& i have no confidence he even understands how a dishwashers works..."Remember the dishwasher, you'd press it. Boom — there'd be like an explosion. Five minutes later, you open it up, the steam pours out"... what decade was that true? sounds like 1950s commercial) so he's now plotting to attack water standards even more
large member
Mon Jan 27 12:58:30
Its problematic to discuss these things seriously if you overemphasise their importance.

Consumer spending is by far the most important component in the US economy. Primary industry has barely budged. At best you could say that oil and gas have taken up slack from coal.

For what actually and demonstratably has played a role. US federal deficit spending. So more of that to make the economy great again (growth at 2.1% with an outlook for 2020 of 1.55% growth is not great by any measure).

The marginal value of increased oil and gas exploitation contributes very little to the US economy.
Mon Jan 27 14:55:37

Jergul, US fuel accounts now for 8% of our economy.It has also boosted up manufacturing, to a lesser degree helped machinery and lets not forget in the US just how cheap gas at the pump and natural gas.

Trump is not 100% the cause of this book, but he has helped its rise, helping to get more controlnof LNG exports as well as oil.

Lets not us forget to that this helps us also in the sense that we no longer have to worry about OPEC and weakens Russian influence.

Mon Jan 27 14:56:36
large member
Mon Jan 27 15:49:09
You are conflating stuff and the link had nothing to do with the point I was making. It does not matter where gas comes from when you measure its contribution to the economy at the gas pump.

Do you or do you not think that resource exploitation has increased dramatically under Trump and that now, resource exploitation is suddenly the most important contributor to US growth?

I think you believe that. In actual numbers? Barely any increase under Trump (increases in shale canceled out by decreases in coal). Its contribution to gdp? 5% tops.
large member
Mon Jan 27 15:50:46
If you are going to measure trade-offs for sacrifice, then at least try to figure out what you are gaining first.
Mon Jan 27 16:27:37
Jergul, The link was for tw.

It does matter where it comes from when stability is considered.

But it's so much that our prices have dropped, natural gas has had to slow down because it would have been so much it was not profitable.Other polocies have also helped to make it cheaper.

Now I do think that in the long run his policies will have a greater effect than the immediate. I do beleive his policies domestic and foreign have helped us now to export and make more fuel.Its not all overnight so as I said I think in the long run this will have a greater effect than just since he has taken office.

Which btw is up about 35% ( from 9 to 12.3 mill. Bpd)

Mon Jan 27 16:33:48
Its difficult to quantify how much an effect each policy would have either in terms of increasing production and exports bit we can estimate ball park amounts. Repealing Obama restrictions on oil exports for example have helped, Idk how much butnim sure we can find estimates.

Then the flip side is how much do or could these negatively effect the enviroment and in what manner.

large member
Mon Jan 27 16:49:58
So marginally cheaper natural gas given that NG was actually cheaper in late 2015 early 2016 than it is today (shale production is expensive and is very price sensitive, so a rebound occurs when production is cut due to low prices).

Not oil as that is a globalized product and any price decrease not cancelled out by OPEC+ cutting production to stabilize prices is certainly dwarfed by policy lead decreases in Iranian and Venezuelan oil production.

And marginal improvement in your trade deficit.

Indeed. How much environment are you willing to sacrifice for that?
Mon Jan 27 17:09:05
jergul, you cannot ask a blind man to see.
Mon Jan 27 17:57:55
As for natural gas policy can can only do so much to help, as you have said fracking is expensive.

Now compare that to say things under Sanders whom is the lead democrat who calls for an immediate ban on all fracking amd the difference is huge.

Again, as ive said before i thinknthe bulk positive effects are in the future.

If we were only to talk about the negative effects that have been immediate in that case the enviroment hasn't been that much worse again the concern is in the future.
Mon Jan 27 17:59:42
Also yes, sanctions on Venezuela and Iran has helped some as well.
Mon Jan 27 18:14:26
Jergul, Its also not a sole economic gain. It's a gain in foriegn policy ( as well strategic) that we have stable energy supplies in stable nations.The US has much more stability in energy instead of being at the mercy of the middle east.

Anyway, getting back to.my point

How much has Trumps pro fuel policies effected and will effect in the near future the US energy outcomes.
large member
Tue Jan 28 00:30:54
By very little relative to the size of the US economy.

Your argument boils down to "vote trump for Soviet style production numbers. Big numbers are big!"
the wanderer
Tue Jan 28 00:45:14
to Habebe your link says 'top -exporter-' i was referencing top producer

exporting is not of importance to me

that's merely damaging the environment for profit

plus the finite resource issue... Trump will make us run out sooner than we would have... hooray... at least some dead people will have had a nicer yacht

although i guess we can hope humans will all be dead before the resources run out, definitely possible
large member
Tue Jan 28 01:07:47
No worries. We will never run out. We can make natural gas using green energy.
the wanderer
Tue Jan 28 02:25:06
if you mentioned green energy at a Trump rally you'd get booed

let's hope people remember what it is once this darkness has passed
large member
Tue Jan 28 02:32:34
Well, you can make NG with nuclear power too. Surely a crowd pleaser?
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