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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump brings Peace to Middle East
patom
Member
Wed Jan 29 06:52:13
Trump has been diligently working on his solution to the Israel/Palestine problem.
I've grown up watching the people of the Holy Lands constantly fighting.
Does anyone think that this plan stands any chance of success?
Average Ameriacn
Member
Wed Jan 29 07:27:31
Make Israel great again!
Paramount
Member
Wed Jan 29 10:06:08
This is hardly Trump’s solution or plan. The whole idea/plan has been written by Israel, and they simply used their puppet Trump to present it to the world.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 29 10:36:26
No chance.

It's the same old thing - no sovereignty, Israel gets to keep everything on the west bank except what the Palestinians are actually sitting on right now, including the water rights. Scores of little enclaves.

They'll never agree to it - it's just accepting the status quo. Why would they?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jan 29 12:56:39
yeah, Israel wrote it... no Palestinians involved, & Trump fully in the tank for Netanyahu as he demonstrates often

their selling point is 'take it before it gets worse' (not even joking)
Habebe
Member
Wed Jan 29 13:03:31
Are we taking bets?

This plan is less plausible than most....and they all failed.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Jan 29 13:37:32
New Israel-Palestine peace plan signed by impeached Donald, indicted Bibi, and no palestinians might sound hopeless, but you have to remember that the plan was designed by Jared Kuschner, whose credentials are impeccable.
patom
Member
Wed Jan 29 14:02:15
CR lol
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 29 14:02:53
patom,

The way I see it, the primary purpose of this plan is not to achieve peace outright, but to reset the baseline for conducting negotiations in the future.

Back in 2000 the Israelis offered the Palestinians 90% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, plus administrative control over parts of East Jerusalem and withdrawal of most Jewish settlements. The Palestinians not only rejected that option, but they went on a terrorism rampage that resulted in many dead Israeli civilians. All the while, they continued to insist that their demands for a peace deal be met in full.

This plan bursts the fantasy that Palestinians can achieve their goals in such a manner. Not only is Israel NOT prepared to meet their demands in full, but now the generous 2000 provisions are permanently off the table as well. 1/3rd of the Jordan Valley and East Jerusalem now stay with Israel and the settlements will remain in place. That's the price for Palestinians' intransigence over the last 20 years.

Basically, this plan lays out the message that the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to the table, the worse any possible deal will be for them. Hopefully they're smart enough to realize that in time.
Paramount
Member
Wed Jan 29 14:17:48
There’s only two ways forward now. One democratic state with equal (voting) rights for all. Or, an Apartheid State.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Jan 29 14:32:46
http://nor...th-finkelstein-shlomo-ben-ami/
Paramount
Member
Wed Jan 29 14:38:39
” Basically, this plan lays out the message that the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to the table”

The Palestinians were not even invited to the table. Israel negotiated with themselves. I imagine it must have been tough negotiations. Besides, there’s no point in negotiating with Israel because they are unwilling to make compromises, as we could clearly see the last time when negotiations were led by John Kerry.

Israel does not even want to see a Palestinian state. Netanyahu has been clear on this. So what is the point of negotiations? The only way I see a viable Two-State-Solution happening is if the World can force Israel to accept it by sanctions, isolation and/or by bombing them to submission.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 29 15:23:56
swordtail.

Really. Citing World Court decisions? Come on now.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 29 15:37:25
Paramount -

Who is there to negotiate with? Hamas, an actual terrorist organization that rules over the Gaza Strip? Or the PA, which has made no serious overtures towards finding a lasting peace since the 1990s?

Israel is not fond of a Palestinian state due to the resulting security issues (Jews, like everyone else, don't like to see their shops and buses blown up by savages). Hence the condition that a self-governing Palestine allow continued Israeli military access into its territories as necessary.

It's a reasonable request, given recent experience. If the Palestinians want a state, they'll accept it.
Paramount
Member
Wed Jan 29 16:32:47
” Who is there to negotiate with? Hamas, PA”

Well, the point with negotiations is to negotiate with the ones you have a conflict with, in order to achieve peace with them.

Besides, the Palestinians can say the same thing. Who is there to negotiate with? Israel who is denying Palestine’s right to exist and who has systematically from day one been breaking the agreements of the Oslo accords by continously expanding the settlements and confiscating more lands and undermining the implementation of the agreed upon two-state-solution.


” If the Palestinians want a state, they'll accept it”

What Israel offered was a Bantustan. Apartheid. And that fascist Jew Kushner had the audacity to suggest that the Palestinian people take a cold shower and digest it.


There is clearly a lack of interest in Israel to live in peace with its neighboors. They can only bribe off corrupt criminal arab leaders for so long. One day karma will be knocking on the door, and I hope it’s not going to be nice. I predict we will see a lot whining jews when that happens.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 29 16:34:29
Ruggy
The only thing unreasonable is not considering the entire area annexed a long time ago.

But you should take notes. Why are you not dealing with tribal lands more like Israel is dealing with the Palestinians.

It would save a lot of money and your voter suppression of democratic prone native americans is far less efficient that Israel's methods.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Wed Jan 29 17:26:01
Paramount
Member Wed Jan 29 10:06:08
"This is hardly Trump’s solution or plan. The whole idea/plan has been written by Israel, and they simply used their puppet Trump to present it to the world."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V705DGBCi6o
Habebe
Member
Wed Jan 29 17:34:00
Well, someone had a final solution that would have nipped this in the bud, and was paying for it ....but you know he was " evil"....
kargen
Member
Wed Jan 29 17:52:26
There is no plan that will work. Both sides want Jerusalem and both sides have fanatics that would never agree to a deal no matter what the terms were.
patom
Member
Wed Jan 29 17:53:24
How many thousand years has this little corner of the world been slaughtering each other in the name of one god or another?

I don't care what religious or ethnic persuasion you claim. If you live there you go a bit nuts.

jergul, I don't know where you get your information but in Maine we have several tribes and they all can vote in the general elections. Unfortunately many don't bother. I remember a few years back where less than 80, out of a population of over 700 bothered to vote.
smart dude
Member
Wed Jan 29 23:31:09
I blame the Muslims. They hate Jews but simultaneously...ripped off their major religious text? LOL.
hood
Member
Wed Jan 29 23:45:30
"but you know he was " evil""

The fuck you mean "evil"? Did you derp the fuck all across your keyboard, meaning *evil* and somehow hitting the quotation marks?
jergul
large member
Thu Jan 30 00:48:04
Patom
The barriers are common knowledge. 10-15% voter participation of the adult population sounds about right come to think of it.

patom
Member
Thu Jan 30 04:41:12
jergul
The barriers are self imposed. Those living on the reservation have it in their head that their vote doesn't count. There are no people standing at the polls blocking them from voting.

The two Passamaquoddy reservations in Washington County Maine have their own Police and Fire departments and go through the same training as all Maine PD's. They back up surrounding PD's and Fire dept.s and visa versa. They can vote for all statewide and national offices.
jergul
large member
Sat Feb 01 04:42:50
The Palestian Authority brings peace to the wall.

It is planning to recognize Texas as part of Mexico.
jergul
large member
Sat Feb 01 04:46:49
Patom
Barriers are never self-imposed if you discount odd religious sects.
jergul
large member
Sat Feb 01 04:47:42
Or political boycotts*
Forwyn
Member
Sat Feb 01 05:10:41
"Texas as part of Mexico"

When is Finland rejoining the Empire?

British imperialists will also be thrilled to know that we're revoking successful independence movements of the past few centuries.
jergul
large member
Sat Feb 01 05:52:30
Fowyn
I don't think it is a general rule. You want to hand over their territory? They want to hand over yours.

Seems fair and balanced.
Allahuakbar
Member
Sun Feb 09 14:40:22
http://www...hreaten-peace-president-151883


Turkey will never allow the peace in the region to be disrupted by the U.S.' so-called “deal of century” Mideast peace plan, said Turkey's president on Feb. 9.

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's remarks came in a statement he sent to the current 3rd Conference of the Inter-parliamentary Jerusalem Platform in Malaysia's capital, Kuala Lumpur.

In his message to the platform, Erdoğan underlined the meaning and the importance of such a conference in this critical period and added that “the so-called 'Deal of Century' [which] declares Jerusalem the capital of Israel is nothing more than a dream that threatens peace in the region. We will not allow this dream to come true.

“We do not recognize this plan, which means annexation of Palestinian lands, completely destroys Palestine, and completely seizes Jerusalem. We never accept this attempt, which accepts a two-state solution on the surface but actually means legitimizing the Israeli occupation under the mandate of the American administration.”

U.S. President Donald Trump's so-called "deal of the century" was announced on Jan. 28. It refers to Jerusalem as “Israel's undivided capital” and recognizes Israeli sovereignty over large parts of the West Bank.
Paramount
Member
Sun Feb 09 14:46:52
I guess Israel will start to murder important people in Turkey soon.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Feb 09 20:36:50
Hellfire Erdogan
Forwyn
Member
Sun Feb 09 20:38:14
The greatest focal point travesty of the 2010s decade is that the pilot of Erdogan's craft managed to convince the F-16 pilot that they were a scheduled Turkish Airlines flight.
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