Utopia Talk / Politics / The democratic debates

Habebe Member	Wed Feb 19 21:17:48 Firstly, Jergul, Congratulations Bloomberg hasnt been as terrible as I anticipated. Now on race/gender issues yeah Warren ( who sucks) destroyed him and Biden. Finished him off. Climate change he did well. Biden has done the best ive ever seen him do. Amy klobuchar has do well. Warren,Pete did horrible, Bloomberg overall sucked too. Id say the winners were Bernie,Biden and any.
Habebe Member	Wed Feb 19 21:29:20 Why do they all them have bad teeth?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Feb 19 21:32:15 Warren has been flinging knives at everyone, a last gasp to gain traction Bloomberg seems sunk on his apology dodges and especially on not wanting to release women from NDAs was a shame to see Pete and Klobuchar fighting, they are still the best options
Habebe Member	Wed Feb 19 22:07:55 I think pete did better on talk shows than the debate stage.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 20 00:30:00 Don't want to put on my tin-foil hat just yet, but it seems like the Dems are hell-bent on having DJT re-elected. My god what a terrible field, assuming that beating the Donald is an actual priority.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 01:34:23 There is not one candidate on stage tonight that Trump wouldnt destroy.
Dukhat Member	Thu Feb 20 02:02:38 Trump won't get more than 47% of the vote this fall. So saying he will destroy all the current candidates is hilariously fake newsy. You should help him write his tweets.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 02:26:31 Either way you'll have to put up with four more years.
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 02:41:08 The only bad outcome for bloomberg would be excessive willowing. His strategy depends on no one breaking away before super tuesday. Warren's legacy may very well be in deciding who the next VP will be. A woman of race. Hi Stacy Abrams. The winner this election is most likely the party that can mobilize the most resources in Florida. This is fun. I win no matter who wins.
Dukhat Member	Thu Feb 20 02:42:57 DURR TRUMP IS DURR BAD DURR BUT DURR AT LEAST DURR LIBERULS DURR WILL GET DURR PISSED
Dukhat Member	Thu Feb 20 02:44:13 Does bloomberg even want to win? Literally all of his ads are about how bad Trump is. Only a few talk about how good he is. And almost none attack the other democratic candidates. He's just carpetbombing digital media so that trump doesn't get it all to himself while the Democratic primary works its way out. Bloomberg's actually a billionaire so becoming president would be a big lifestyle downgrade for him.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 04:13:48 Jergul, Did you watch the debates?
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 04:24:28 Nope. I have people who do that for me. The dynamics was pretty clear. The other candidates used Bloomberg as a punching bag. This sheilded biden and Sanders somewhat, while giving everyone else a bit more viability. Did anyone break away? Nope. And breaking away is the only thing that will kill Bloomberg's campaign. Real contenders for the democratic candidacy have to be a bit careful of how they treat Mr. Minor Mike Moneypants (feel free to suggest that to Trump). His money will likely be key to winning Florida for anyone - and with Florida, the presidency.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 05:15:46 I almost feel like his candidacy is a wagging of the dog so to speak. But Id say bernie is breaking away...but we wont find oit tile 3/3 But I suspect he will take a commanding lead by then and the focus will be to attack him or have others drop out. His biggest issue really has been electability. You know what shows electability....winning. Florida is important but not itself the election. Who in Florida in a general election do you think has a shot against Trump?
Dukhat Member	Thu Feb 20 05:35:41 Bernie has been one of the strongest candidates in head-to-head matchups with Trump according to all A- and better rated 538 pollsters. I'd say for certain that Dems would be strongly disfavored to win without Bloomberg's money. Before Bloomberg got into the race, Trump was pouring in tens of millions of dollars into social media unchallenged and also tracking likely republican voters (religious idiots and rural people) and targeting them constantly with ads. Now those people are far more likely to see a Bloomberg ad than a Trump ad. And most of those ads talk about how fucking stupid Trump is. Also, Dems can win without Florida though if they romp in the other states, they'll likely win Florida anyways. It's only Cook R+3 PVI.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 06:35:39 You probably thought Hillary would win in 2016 by a long shot too.... You watch too much maddow.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 20 06:44:01 Habebe, He was absolutely certain that Hillary would win in 16. It's kind of a famous prediction on here. Dukhat's problem is that he only reads sources that confirm his worldview. It's a wildly self-destructive choice for someone who loves to prognosticate as much as he does.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 06:44:27 The problem is that a generic Democrat imo would fair better than any of the candidates. Unless the economy tanks ( covid-19?) Than Trump will win. If something drastic changes maybe Bernie.
patom Member	Thu Feb 20 07:06:07 If Bernie Sanders wins: Oh my, Medicare for all will end life in this country as we know it!! The sky will fall if we don't have a choice in our Health Care insurance. Whatever will we do if we can't price shop for something we can muster the money to pay for. Just look at the horrible conditions of the the people just north of us. Why the Canadians are dying in the streets because they had to wait a few days to have a non life threatening, elective procedure done. They are driving around in 15 year old cars that have been sneaked across the border from the US. Terrible that they don't have to go into bankruptcy after a long illness trying to pay medical expenses. Not to mention all those Europeans, Australians, Japanese, etc. etc. etc. living in dire conditions because they have universal health care plans. We will not stand for it!!! We don't want it!!! It's totally impossible to accomplish here in this country!!!! Incomprehensible!!!! We are happy with the status quo. We love paying a thousand a month with $5k deductible insurance rates. We feel so privileged to do this to help support the health insurance industry. What would they ever do? It's your patriotic duty to pay for services that they routinely deny you. Suck it up and soldier on. They care about you...............re premiums. That is unless you come down with something that may cost them money. Got to watch that bottom line, don't you know. Priorities!! You just wait. Trump and the Republicans have a plan in the works that will be cheaper and better than Obamacare. They have promised to us. It will take care of every man woman and child in this country. It's coming to a country near you. Follow the yellow brick road.......
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 07:06:59 "Who in Florida in a general election do you think has a shot against Trump?" Anyone. http://www.../state-to-state-migration.html The influx to Florida from Democrat leaning States is quite massive.
patom Member	Thu Feb 20 07:11:00 What is the fascination with Florida? Is it because of the chads thing? Gore lost the election because he forgot to campaign in his own home state. If he would have won Tennessee he would have won the election. The reason Trump won was because too many people were too lazy to get out and vote. They couldn't believe that there would be that many who would vote for the crazy guy.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 20 07:40:40 Patom, Florida is the 3rd largest state in the country by population and the 4th largest by economy. Since it's controlled by the GOP at the state level, it has extremely strong demand drivers (such as low taxes and good business incentives) which ensure that it will continue disproportionately gain population in the future. It also happens to be an up-for-grabs swing state with a whopping 29 electoral votes (for over 5% of the total EC). And you wonder why people care way more about Florida than some shithole state like, say Maine?
patom Member	Thu Feb 20 07:56:27 Hey, I resemble that remark!!!! Didn't mention Maine. Just the fact that Gore would have won but blew it in his home state.
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 08:30:39 Patom To translate from Ruggy to human. People like to retire there.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 20 09:03:02 Jergul, Maybe the guy who just said as something as douchey as "I have people who watch the debate for me" should shut the fuck up about other people being non-relatable. Frankly, you should be too embarrassed from that comment to still be posting in this thread. Patom, I'm just pointing out why everyone always care about Florida. California and New York are always going to go Democrat and Texas is always going to go Republican (unless everyone outside of Houston and Austin stays at home on election day). That leaves Florida as the biggest prize available to both sides.
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 09:36:54 Ruggy Its the power of the internet. We all have people that can watch debates for us. Patom States break different ways in various election cycles. This time, the break means that the GOP must win Florida to have a reasonable chance of winning the election. Trump has the incumbent advantage. But the voter demographics have change in favour of the democrats since the last cycle. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
kargen Member	Thu Feb 20 13:24:31 All the candidates last night looked like the prepared for the debate by planning a few zingers on the other candidates. It seemed none of them prepared on how to respond to zingers thrown their way. I don't recall a single candidate successfully defending themselves when a bomb was lobbed their way. Warren is reporting record (for her) contributions during and shortly after the debate so she in that area at least comes out a winner. Not sure her attacks on the others will translate to a rise in the polls though. Bernie was probably the winner because he went in as the favorite and nobody did anything to knock him off the top. It is a bit telling that when asked if the candidate with the most delegates at the end should get the nomination even if they fall short the number needed only Bernie said yes. All the others want it to go to a contested convention. Maybe they are sticklers for the rules set forth and want them followed no matter what or maybe they think a brokered convention is the only way to stop Bernie. Either way it is clear they expect him to be the front runner going into Super Tuesday and maybe beyond. Biden was horrible. He came off as the old man who walked uphill both ways in a hurricane and four foot of snow to school in most his responses. I half expected him to say "I drank a Pepsi with President Obama in the Oval Office how many of you can say that." Of the candidates left I like Amy Klobuchar best but I don't think she helped herself much. She needed a few really good moments to start a buzz about her and didn't get them.
Forwyn Member	Thu Feb 20 13:41:43 How was Bernie not coached on responding to the three houses/millionaire spiel? It's an easy response, but he got flustered. Weaksauce
Dukhat Member	Thu Feb 20 13:46:25 Habebe and Rugian gave up even trying. Ad Hominems are sad. And Hillary did win by over 2 million votes. Russian Trolls,Comey violating the Hatch act, and Republicans shutting down polling places in Democratic areas in Midwestern gave Trump a miraculous electoral college victory. Which is why it's so important for the dems to counter the Russian Trolls and Trump's digital spendin this election cycle. That was never going to happen with the dems fighting each other but Bloomberg understands data and has completely countered the trolls and Trump in that area. So it now goes down to the dems stopping cheating. They control the executive offices in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin this time. But Wisconsin is ground zero for Republican cheating efforts because they still control the legislature there.
kargen Member	Thu Feb 20 14:27:46 "And Hillary did win by over 2 million votes" Votes don't matter. If they did each candidate would run a different campaign. Bringing up popular vote would be like a football team saying they should have won because even though they had less points they had more first downs. Hillary lost because she spent the last two months of the campaign celebrating her win. I know this is anecdotal but I have several friends who are convinced Bloomberg joined the election to undermine the Democrats chance of winning. They are basically where I was at about this time in 2016. I was pretty certain that President Trump was only in the race to help Hillary win. Anyway a lot of Democrats I know have put never Trump on the back burner and are for the time being never Bloombergers.
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 15:04:58 Kargen Well, if your friends are telling you, then they are also telling polling agencies. Its not having much impact. The only people who are never Bloombergers are the one who will only vote for Sanders. There is national polling data on this. The thing about Biden - people who prefer him will also vote for someone else. That is not true for all of bloomberg's and Sander's supporters.
kargen Member	Thu Feb 20 15:38:45 Nah there are people besides Bernie fans that are anti Bloomberg at all costs. Some of these people if Bloomberg gets the nod will have to decide lesser of two evils. Problem with that is it doesn't really inspire them to get out and vote. Bloomberg is going to have to shine next Tuesday or his campaign will be in trouble heading into Super Tuesday. Outside of California I don't see Bloomberg doing well super Tuesday without something going really really well in the upcoming debate. If Bernie does well on super Tuesday the best any of the others can hope for is a brokered convention and that will be messy.
Dukhat Member	Thu Feb 20 15:47:52 Dems hate Trump enough that a brokered convention won't matter. Bernie will find one of the other candidates to pair with fairly easily.
patom Member	Thu Feb 20 16:07:17 Speaking of voter turn out. I saw a meme that calls for a competition among states to get the first primary. The state with the highest voter turn out percentage wins the next Primary #1 spot.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 16:39:39 Patom, The problem with Bernie is I dont think he could get irnpassed. I support UHC as a conservative.... Its one of the blemishes the Right in this country. In reality I have more hope in in jeff bezos and warrwn buffet in actually saving healthcare I. This country.
patom Member	Thu Feb 20 17:03:35 What Bernie can get passed will depend in large part whether the Senate is still run by McConnell.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 17:34:18 Dukhat, A Bernie/Tulsi ticket would probably have wide appeal. " The only people who are never Bloombergers are the one who will only vote for Sanders. There is national polling data on this." The thing is, there are almost no always BBers. No serious amount people love BB.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 17:35:20 Patom, Sort of the DNC hates Bernie...they openly admit this.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 18:14:20 Thats why I wouldnt be shocked of Bernies support is much higher than it appears. The DNC and their media cronies (cnn, msdnc and politico) are more corrupt than Trump could be if he tried to be as corrupt as possible.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 18:23:21 Lool at Iowa, Bernie polled well, what did they do? They didnt release the poll.The app that supposedly fucked up Iowa? Created by shadow ( thats the teal name) funded in part by Pete and created by a Pete supporter... Just saying. Then Bernie won the populat vote of the state , do you know how Pete won some of his delegates? By coin toss, I swear to God, the one video showed the guy catching the coin in his hand and telling people who won.... Oh but Trump is corrupt.... Hahahahahaha
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 18:45:40 I get why you are protective of Sanders. It gives Trump a decent shot at retaining the office and even if the worst comes to pass, you will have a person you like in office that won't get to do very much. Its probably a good call. I don't see how well placed cash would not secure Florida for Bloomberg. And with Florida, the election.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 18:55:32 To sum it up, this is a move we expect from China. This is literally why Hong Kong protested. Yeah they could vote ehoever they wanted.... As long as it was a PRC/DNC candidate.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 18:59:17 Jergul, You are not disputing facts about how corrupt the DNC in the US is. And yeah. Admittedly I like Bernie, he may not have the right answers, but he has the right questions. In POTUS elections, money doesnt buy an election. History has shown us that. Hillary vastly outspent Trump. Now admittedly this is money on an unprecedented scale, so this could.be different.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 19:01:34 Bernie reminds menof that priest who said. " When I feed poor they call me a saint, when I ask why the poor habe no food, they call me a communist"
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 19:05:18 http://stp...DEMprimaryFebruary19_Z8U3J.pdf I am not engaging in your little rant. Above link shows Bloomberg is strong in Florida. This matters because 500 super delegates matter and reassigning bound delegates matter. Everyone with a bit of brains knows that the best candidate is the candidate most likely to take Florida.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 19:12:27 And you think BN is that candidate? Remember that UP archivist?
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 19:23:52 I think the DNC would prefer to rally around Biden, but will opt for Bloomberg ahead of Sanders as it stands now. Based solely on his strength in Florida. You must know he will take that state if he puts enough cash into it, right?
jergul large member	Thu Feb 20 19:26:29 This could change. If Sanders does a good showing in Florida, then the bet is off. Biden may still recover and the establishment will then bet on him. Bloomberg may continue to do poorly in debates. One does not matter much (who won the 2nd debate? Who lost it? Do you remember?). That might undermine his message of handily being able to deal with Trump.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 21:09:49 I don't "know" that money alome will buy florida. Again you can look up the $ spent Hillary/Trump. I dont recall the amounts but i know i she out spent him. Trump is very popular with the Fla. Latinos. They tend to vote very conservative and very religious ( anti abortion) plus people are happy, the economy is good, he would have to not only convince people to be pro gun control, pro abortion but to also say even though the economy is good it xould be better, so much so that you should gamble with your vote.... can money buy all that? It did t last election and they had leas of a hill to climb. Plus as evil as hillary is, she is a top notch debater...bloomberg is not a public speaker. He is not a "man of the people" and regardless of what people think about Trump he has a base voter for whom he is tremendously popular with, he is man of the people to them.
Habebe Member	Thu Feb 20 21:11:54 I wouldn't count Biden out but Bernie ( again a man of the people) has a strong lead. The real question is can a decent candidate, bankrolled by BB win... That IMO is much more of a toss up.
kargen Member	Thu Feb 20 22:37:43 Bloomberg is polling poorly in Ohio and that is almost as important as Florida for the primaries. The other thing to remember is one third of the state wide vote does not equate to one third of the delegates. The delegates are assigned to precincts and awarded by how the candidates do in each precinct. Much like Bernie winning the popular vote in Iowa but getting less delegates the same thing could happen to a candidate in Florida. I still think if Bernie is strong on super Tuesday only a brokered convention can stop him and a brokered convention probably leans in Biden's favor opposed to Bloomberg. Biden could be helped if some of the other candidates get out of the race after super Tuesday. The problem for him is he more and more comes off as flustered and confused. I have a feeling when this hits the general election we will see record spending on both sides and not just on the presidential race. Money is going to be spent down ticket as well. Going to be interesting.
Dukhat Member	Thu Feb 20 23:15:43 Jergul obsessed with Florida. The turning point state is almost certainly going to be Wisconsin. Dems can win without Florida. It would be nice to have it, but they can win all the Hillary states plus retake the midwest and win it. Retaking the midwest is easier in a way because the messaging and demographics are all the same between states. Michigan and Pennsylvania simply have too many educated people and minorities for Republicans to win so it'll be down to Wisconsin.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 01:01:15 Habebe He is not very popular at all amongst Hispanic Latinos. He is popular amongst the 1/3rd Cuban Americans (at 54%) and unpopular amongst all other Latinos. Two months before the election, Trump had spent 8 million in Florida and Clinton 24 million. So chickenfeed. Its not a question of buying the Florida election. All democrats poll better than Trump in that State. Its a question of cockblocking Trumps attempts to dominate the feeds and take Florida anyway. Kargen Florida is the State to win in the primaries and in the general election. We are looking at a 2nd round of voting for the democrats. That frees all bound deligates and sets loose the super deligates. Everyone will be looking to who can carry Florida convincingly because that will carry the election. Dukhat There are other ways the Democrats can win the presidential election, but the only way the GOP can is by winning Florida. Florida is plan A. Other variants are plan B. The polling is very clear on this - and it is the same pattern that has been true or close to true for many cycles now.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 01:42:51 Sander's clearest shot is by winning a majority of delegates and avoid a brokered convention entirely. He has a solid shot at doing that. But I do not think he will be able to leverage a minority of delegates into a majority if that fails. For tactical reasons. And Sanders does have tactical advantages. People know some of his voters will stay at home if he is not the presidential candidate. This fact is ultimately what will kill Biden's chances. There is no real downside to choosing someone other than him.
Dukhat Member	Fri Feb 21 02:12:01 Biden wins about 1-2% of Republicans in polling. I think so does Bloomberg. That's a big advantage in a hyper-partisan country. That being said, it's very early polling and I think Republicans will come home to Trump anyways because at this point, there are no intelligent Republicans left.
patom Member	Fri Feb 21 06:16:59 For what passes as Republicans today to abandon Trump at this point is to admit they fucked up royally when they voted for him. Too many people sat on their asses in 16 because they thought Clinton had it in the bag.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 10:59:48 It looks in this moment of time as though we are going to have two non-traditional party candidates in the general election. That being the case speaks volumes to me. With the Democratic party and left media willing to do everything possible in preventing Sanders from being their candidate spells trouble for them. If they succeed, what do you think the Bernie Bro's will do with their voting privilege? Revenge is unpredictable. We could easily have a repeat of 2016.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 11:22:21 TJ Sanders route to becoming the democratic candidate is the same as for anyone. He has to get a majority of delegates. The DNC and the left media is not willing to do everything possible to prevent Sanders from gaining a majority in the primaries. But if no candidate has a majority at the convention, then figure viability against Trump to weigh more heavily in the scales than who had the most of too few delegates entering the convention. I would be careful with pushing the narrative that elections are being stolen. Doing that undermines the legitimacy of your system. A two party system does not have much in the way of legitimacy to give away in the first place.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 11:30:47 Factually, the DNC changed its rules in a way that favours Sanders from 2018. Super delegates used to weigh in immediately. Currently, Sanders has a chance to win a majority of bound delegates and with that, the super delegates do not come into play. You would be hard put to suggest that rule change is doing everything possible to keep Sanders from winning.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 11:57:12 I know how our system works jergul. You need not school me, but I appreciate the thought. I won't use the Klobuchar response to Buttijege in the previous debate.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 21 12:03:13 TJ, Are you sure you know more than jergul about our national political system? After all, he does have the benefit of *being able to read news websit-*...sorry, having an army of staffers to do research on his behalf. Against such a formidably-informed person, I dont know how us puny Americans can possibly challenge his expertise of our politics.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 12:17:44 I'm not clairvoyant. If I was I wouldn't be posting in UP.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 12:19:18 I do have the home advantage though.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 13:57:39 TJ If you know how it works, then why do you frame things so strangely? Ruggy I would casually estimate I am better informed on the nuts and bolts than 95% of your population. Even people who know better are so emotionally involved that they keep forgetting important things.
Habebe Member	Fri Feb 21 14:13:19 Jergul, In 2018 the Republican party got its ass handed to it.Florida however went heavily Republican, and hispanic voters are a big reason.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 14:25:55 jergul: Strangely? Maybe it is because of the home advantage. Here is something you can sink your teeth into that may tie into the political strategies for 2020. http://kni...ion-Project_KF_Report_2020.pdf
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 14:35:06 It went heavily Republican by very small margins in every race you mean. Hispanics voted democrat by a 10 point margin. The Senate went GOP by 10k votes after the GOP outspent the Democrats 62 to 24 million.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 14:38:05 jergul: Ruggy I would casually estimate I am better informed on the nuts and bolts than 95% of your population. 95%---> WOW, casually estimate. Nothing casual about that statement.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 14:45:17 Strange is generally not much of an advantage. Home or otherwise. I absolutely knew that 100 million eligible voters do not cast their ballots. Its been like that forever. Getting out the vote is hardly a new strategy. It factors in every election. In this cycle, it matter most by which party can marginally increase its support by getting a few 10k margin of non-responsive voters to participate in Florida (a few 10k more than the other party). The recent influx of voters from Puerto Rico will statistically have a greater impact.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 14:48:42 How many people do you know that understand that poor photo-ops with toilet paper rolls in Puerto Rico might very well cost Trump Florida, and with it, the election? Trump is not the only one who has moved to Florida. Not by far ;). 95% seems a casually solid estimate :).
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 14:53:44 Don't fall from that egotistical cliff. It could prove to be deadly. You are a speed reader or so it seems. That report suggests that if every eligible adult voted in 2020, Democrats would likely increase their popular vote lead from the 2016 presidential election—but still lose the Electoral College. Shrug and repeat, I'm not clairvoyant and in addition I have a much smaller ego.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 15:06:43 I'll also reiterate "in this moment" it looks like Sanders and Trump will go head to head.
Habebe Member	Fri Feb 21 15:10:25 Mind you florida has a Republicam Governor, a majority of HoRs, nd in 2018 when the Republican party was doing horrible florida Republicans unseated an incumbent Democrat....
Habebe Member	Fri Feb 21 15:13:55 http://m.s...east-politics/lev-parnas-audio Supposedly, Trump in his own words would have rather went head to head with Clinton than Bernie. These are convorsations recorded by lev patnas he has recently released.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 16:00:06 I doubt it would hurt. I would pillow my fall with mounds of condescension :). Balance your thinking you know a lot more about this than I do, but yet, you still have a smaller ego? How would that compute? At this moment, it looks like there will be a brokered convention. But Sanders does have a realistic shot of gaining the majority of delegates still. Habebe A Governor reaching his term limits, flipping to a Senate run, and massively outspending his competition to win by 10k votes. A testament to the impact of cash most of all. Do you think that testament bodes well for GOPs candidate in the upcoming election? I checked incidentally. Trump has not spent a dime on his campaign so far. He may want to reconsider his frugality. He has money, right?
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 16:39:49 "Balance your thinking you know a lot more about this than I do, but yet, you still have a smaller ego?" It might have something to do with a casual estimate. I only said I have a home advantage, as you would have, if we were talking about Norway. Not something I would say to a Norwegian. An ego under control. :)
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 16:59:45 Knowledge is not a function of geography. Do you have a better point?
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 17:02:12 Geography wasn't the point. Numbers were the point.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 17:09:16 You have stated casually that you know more about the political system and national mood than 311 million individual Americans. I consider that an elitist egotistical position. If your number had been more reasonable we wouldn't be having this particular exchange.
Habebe Member	Fri Feb 21 17:14:47 Jergul, If money equals votes than Trump beats bloomberg without a doubt.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 17:17:39 Its like anything. Put in the time. Check things up for 10 hours and know more than 75% of Norway's population. Be smart and push it up to 95%. Tactical voting is important here. Two minor parties in the governing coalition are just above the 4% cutoff. 3 minor parties outside the coalition are just below the 4% cutoff. Combine that with general ruling coalition attrition and you know for sure that the next government here is going to be coalition labour. There. Now you know more than 95% of Norway's population.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 17:23:24 TJ Incidentally, is not the US a Federation where national politics in the presidential election is further moderated by the electoral college? A national moood is a figment of your imagination. What you do have is various mood bubbles at State level. Which corresponds with the level at which the election will be determined.e What some people in rural Arizona might think is completely irrelevant to the outcome in Florida where the election will be decided.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 17:31:07 Moods were considered in National mood. Not an imagination. When have i said anything about Arizona or Florida one way or the other? You trying to read my mind again. :)
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 17:41:04 BTW, it isn't further moderated by the electoral college. The electoral college is decisive. If it wasn't you wouldn't be mentioning Florida.
kargen Member	Fri Feb 21 17:41:32 "Factually, the DNC changed its rules in a way that favours Sanders from 2018." That was done so Bernie would promise not to run as an independent. They still are doing what they to keep Bernie out. They can't be so blatant about it this time around though. "How many people do you know that understand that poor photo-ops with toilet paper rolls in Puerto Rico might very well cost Trump Florida, and with it, the election?" You keep mentioning Puerto Rico. THe people that left Puerto Rico went from a Democratically controlled place to a Republican controlled place by choice. They remember it was Democrats that kept supplies locked inside warehouses for their own gains instead of distributing to the public. A few well timed ads reminding people how Ricardo Rosselló fucked them will either get them to vote Republican or just stay home.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 17:48:18 kargen: Jergul knows all about the nuts and bolts.
Habebe Member	Fri Feb 21 17:49:46 Kargen, Now the dnc says Russia is helping Bernie... We should have just voted Clinton....hahaha
Dukhat Member	Fri Feb 21 18:18:20 https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article236728033.html Lol. Trump has a 73% disapproval rating with Puerto Ifans in Florida. Conservatives always playing fast and loose with facts.
sam adams Member	Fri Feb 21 18:41:51 Its 2020 and the best possible presidential candidate is a gay squirell from indiana. what a world.
Habebe Member	Fri Feb 21 18:46:44 73% disapproval and Hillary still lost? Damn white ppl must hate her.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 19:15:54 TJ National moods are a construct that are accessible anywhere. I can access as much knowledge about Arizona voter as any American can...and am frankly far more likely do to than your average citizen. Part and parcel of being part of a Federation. State perspectives matter. I think its would be timely for you to eat some humble pie. The threshold for knowing more about anything than 95% of the generic population does is rather low. Kargen Your theory is that they were not leaving because of disruptions after hurricanes, but rather to feel the democratic regimes they suffered under?` Good one! Smack only a lot of desperation. Habebe Your national security agencies are saying the Russians are helping Trump. He probably did not have 73% disapproval before that unfortunate photo-ops with toilet paper. If Trump loses the election, it could easily be attributed to how he mishandled the Hurricanes in Puerto Rico. There is some irony in there somewhere.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 19:24:09 I wonder who spilled the beans on Russia backing Sanders in 2020. Kind of tricky.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 19:26:57 It may be that I should be humbled, but I don't think so at the moment.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 19:27:25 Your national security agencies. Backing Sanders in the primaries makes sense if the goal is a 2nd term for Trump. As all of you Trump supporters in this thread know perfectly well. Its the same reason you are backing Sanders in the primaries.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 19:31:23 http://www...business/article240524106.html Bloomberg says 3 women can be released from NDAs. Bloomberg didn't automatically revoke the agreements, but told the women to contact the company if they would like to be released. I wonder why they need to contact him first.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 19:32:31 I'm not backing anyone in the primaries. I couldn't care less who wins the primary.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 19:37:28 You don't care. You only think it is incredibly corrupt if anyone steals the nomination from Sanders. Try to have a narrative that has a semblance of internal consistency, mkay? Has Trump released Stormy Daniels from her NDA yet? Or his first wife for that matter? You know, the one on record using the rape word? I don't think you want to play the misogyny game in other words.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 19:43:10 I think corrupt is corrupt. The affiliation of party makes no difference. Is it alright with you if I speculate possibilities?
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 19:49:49 Sure. You can speculate. I can speculate. I wonder if Trump has had an incestious relationship with any of his children? I am just speculating, but it certainly is worth thinking about. ================================ The reason Sanders is a poor candidate (beyond wah socialist fearmongering and low support amongst independents): He removes risks for Trump. Sanders will have trouble beating trump if the economy is doing ok, and will find it impossible if the economy is doing poorly. It is easy to sell that the last thing you want in power during an economic downturn is a business hostile socialist.
TJ Member	Fri Feb 21 19:56:15 You are getting absurd with your speculating. Is legal corrupt in your mind? It takes two for a legal contract. Does that make either corrupt legally? I speculate one is your answer.
	show deleted posts