Utopia Talk / Politics / Trumps hiring practices

Habebe Member	Sun Feb 23 15:51:00 Now I think the down side is that the appointees keep changing and are not getting settled intI the job. But I don't get why people would say you shouldnt hire loyalists with the same goals as you. I mean if you ran a company wouldnt you get people who will work towards the same goals and ate loyalists. I mean he is doing something right, for years people always bitched that politicians would go to Washington and not get anything done, no one is bitching that Trump isnt getting enough done except Anne Coulter.
Average Ameriacn Member	Sun Feb 23 15:56:11 He is building the wall!
Habebe Member	Sun Feb 23 16:18:29 Anne argues not fast enough.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Feb 23 17:23:14 you don't want a Trump loyalist as DNI... (ideally, you want someone who hates Trump as that is the sane view)... but no need to have political views at all relevant in that job... which is definitely not how Trump operates (plus he has no experience... Trump actively devalues experience, probably as knowledgeable people make him feel stupid)
hood Member	Sun Feb 23 17:25:47 "I mean if you ran a company wouldnt you get people who will work towards the same goals and ate loyalists." No. That's how you become AOL or Yahoo. Everyone thinking the same exact way only ever leads to disaster. Also, this idea that the federal government should be run like a business needs to die a very painful death.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Feb 23 17:30:21 it should be noted, being a Trump loyalist means you will lie & cover for his bullshit there's really no arguing this point, Jeff Sessions was fully on board the Trump train yet he ethically recused himself from one investigation thus dooming himself
Habebe Member	Sun Feb 23 19:27:08 "No. That's how you become AOL or Yahoo. Everyone thinking the same exact way only ever leads to disaster." There is a difference between openly sharinf different ideas anf working towards to the same goal. I think most people admit that Trumps government is alot more efficient and gets shit done, you may think its horrible shit getting done though depending on your opinion.
hood Member	Sun Feb 23 21:13:17 "I think most people admit that Trumps government is alot more efficient and gets shit done" I think you're going to need some actual evidence to back this up.
Habebe Member	Sun Feb 23 21:39:14 In three years he has Created a new branch of the military. Pushed through USMCA with bipartisan support. Even Nancy Pelosi voted for it I believe*. Signed phase one of thenChinese trade deal. Got a huge amount of judges approved. 25% of US circuit court judges are Trump appointees. Killed 3 major terrorists. Relaxed government regulations on the energy sector. We are now the world leadernin oil andngas production and exportation. Passed the largest overhaul of the US tax code in 30 years. However it has fallen far short of it claims economically. Wiping out ISIS strongholds/leader. * one of the three major i listed earlier. Passed the first step act ome of the biggest reformsbin criminal justice in who knows how long? Repealed much of Obama care. Backed outnof the TPP... Personally not sure if i agree this was a good Thing or not. But it's still an accomplishment whether or not i agree with it. Normally people complain how Washington doesnt get anything done.... How many people complain about this now?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Feb 23 22:55:35 ^Trump had nothing to do w/ most of that... why would you even list judges? i know he takes credit but he's a total fraud... what role do you even imagine him having in it?
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 00:01:38 The Potus nominates them and then tries to get them approved. A shot load of his appointees have gotten approved ( obviously with help from turtle guy)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Feb 24 00:24:13 "obviously with help from turtle guy" entirely because of the turtle guy... turtle held up nominations under Obama (just like w/ Supreme Court for that matter) as he's corrupt garbage who should be in prison so lots of slots for corrupt turtle guy to now ram through... you think Trump is reviewing resumés? give me a break
hood Member	Mon Feb 24 01:28:11 "Created a new branch of the military." It just shifted air force space assets to a new command structure. Very little actual anything was done except to rename a group of people from A to B. Although I guess that's classic "Trump Getting Things Done (TM)"; repaint it and call it brand new! "Got a huge amount of judges approved. 25% of US circuit court judges are Trump appointees." One must have vacancies to nominate judges. "Killed 3 major terrorists." Everyone kills terrorists. Except Bush. Somehow he failed. "Relaxed government regulations on the energy sector." You say this like it's a good thing. Plundering natural resources with reckless abandon is short sighted and mind-numbingly stupid. We should be the world leader in renewable energy, and yet because of lobbying, Obama half-assing it, and Trump shitting all over everything, we are not. "Passed the largest overhaul of the US tax code in 30 years. However it has fallen far short of it claims economically." It's almost like you know that this "largest overhaul" was actively terrible. Which it was. "Repealed much of Obama care." Another actively bad thing. Additionally, this is just plain false. The only thing they did was repeal the mandate. Everything else lives on. And it should be noted that "Trump Care" was hilariously shot down by just about everyone not employed by the government, including Trump voters.
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 02:19:05 " so lots of slots for corrupt turtle guy to now ram through... you think Trump is reviewing resumés? give me a break" I think Trump is rather hands on. Hood, 1. As for space force, its not a traditional branch of the military and will be focused more on R&D. 2.Yes you need vacancies to nominate appointees, but Trump and the Reps have gotten them passed through at a rapid pace. For Conservatives this a huge selling point that will have an impact for decades. 3. Well I do think its a good thing. It gives us more leverage in foriegn affairs, Kissinger would have loved to have had that. But you didn't ask what has Trump done to make you happy, you asked me to back up my statement that he has been getting a lot done. 4. I think the tax cut was a mixed bag. 5.skipped over the terrorists. Yes all POTUS kill terrorist, Obama got Osama. 6.Again I specifically said "you may think its horrible shit getting done though depending on your opinion."
Forwyn Member	Mon Feb 24 02:29:29 "It just shifted air force space assets to a new command structure" Future admins will determine how this plays out. USAF could have easily been rendered moot by Eisenhower. Fifty years from now it could be the sole command structure taking on the Formics.
hood Member	Mon Feb 24 02:31:17 Failing for 3 years to do anything substantive with Obamacare isn't "getting things done." And the energy stuff is not good. You are wrong. We could be balls deep in actual self sufficiency (renewable energy) by now. Instead we're lagging behind where it matters. Energy also highlights another "Trump can't get anything done" bit in relation to coal. Remember his heraclean efforts to save coal jobs? Remember how bad it went? The only way the tax cut was a mixed bag is if you have a friend making 7 figures. It was active shit for 95% of the country. Your comment about the space force is... pointless? Space force is literally just air force space command with a new name. Nothing of substance happened. So basically, cheerleaders will see what they want. Which has been the theme for this presidency anyway. How reality has fallen. :(
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 02:54:08 Hood, You seem angry at him either way. At the same time the US has become the world leader in energy exports we also had the world's largest drop in c02 emmisions because NG has become way cheaper than coal... But you say thats a fail. What would be a win in your eyes?
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 02:54:52 "So basically, cheerleaders will see what they want." On both sides but yes.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 03:03:03 Habebe Fracking is not something Trump is responsible for at all. And the revolution began in 2012. Rigcounts are down significantly incidentally. By 24% since last year. US production is incredibly price sensitive. Global rig counts excluding the US and Canada is up 6%. https://www.wtrg.com/rotaryrigs.html#Weekly
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 03:46:39 Here is something to spin. Trump leaves the wheel only temporarily to visit India. The stock market reacts by falling 1.5% because this is the obvious causation. What will happen if the market has to envision 4 years without a Trump at the very least? Oh horror!
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 03:50:16 "Fracking is not something Trump is responsible for at all" I didn't say he was. I said he has relaxed regulations that encouraged production and exportation. Well more so he lobbied on behalf for the exportation part. I seen one study show that compared to HRC they estimate 1/2 million Barrels a day directly attributed to his policies. Now again that was only compared to what they assumed about Clinton. What does rig count matter when we lead the world in production and exportation?
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 04:26:00 What are the specific relaxed regulations you feel have encouraged production and export? Who exactly did he lobby to secure export contracts that would not otherwise have occured? The only policy change that could impact on production is tax relief to producers. Conversely, a surcharge on CO2 emissions during production would have a negative impact. The less it costs them to produce a barrel, the lower the price cut-off before they shut down well production. Rig counts matter because that is where the oil and gas comes from. You do know you are refining 3 mbd more than you produce, right?
patom Member	Mon Feb 24 04:36:05 Helped hundreds of Hardware stores in Mexico sell power tools to cut through the impenetrable Wall. Helped the makers of re bar in their sales to make ladders for scaling the impenetrable Wall. Trump has done wonders for the Canadian Lobster fishing industry. New England..........not so much.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 04:49:18 Trump empowered bloomberg to hire thousands of people on outlandish outreach projects. Trump should definitely get credit for that.
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 06:34:47 "What are the specific relaxed regulations you feel have encouraged production and export? Who exactly did he lobby to secure export contracts that would not otherwise have occured?" I feel like we had almost this exact convo. A few weeks ago. Regulations? Off the top of my head Allowing more federal leases, pushing for more energy infrastructure (i.e.: pipelines) Sanctions on oil producing nations ( Venezuela/Iran) As for lobbying Germany has agreed to triple its purchases of LNG from the US. Also his sanctions on Nordstream 2 have slowed production. USMCA will also allow tarrif free flow of energy. He has also stopped bans on drilling in several.places. "The only policy change that could impact on production is tax relief to producers." See this is the shit.you say that Idk if your serious.. Also like i said 2019, the US had the largest drop in GHG of any nation, while becoming the lead energy exporter. Is this all Trump? No, but he encourages such activity, absolutely. Honestly that guy who perfected fracking should get most of the credit. It also depends.to what standard you compare Trump to. Bernies biggest downside is his total ban on fracking.If you compare what that would.mean in stats to Trumps its huge.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 07:50:07 Maybe not use the top of your head? The driver for oil and gas is advances in techniques and technology (fracking is a 19th century invention) and sustained high prices. The boom began in 2010 and picked up pace from 2012. Trump is responsible for making oil more expensive through sanction regimes, but since when is that a presidential selling point? Also, you remember correctly. I tweaked you on to sanctions as an important driver for US oil and gas development through price improvements. Trump has been pushing hard for more coal. Which has declined despite Trump and is the main reason for reduced emissions. Above all, you should recognize that the explosion in oil and gas is an Obama era development. A ban on fracking is not much of a downside. The problem is not a lack of new federal licenses, it is a price level that supports existing ones. Like I said, the number of operational drills is down 25%. Their licenses are still active, awaiting prices that can support drilling operations. And there is no way Sanders is going to expropriate existing drilling licenses.
hood Member	Mon Feb 24 09:01:04 "At the same time the US has become the world leader in energy exports we also had the world's largest drop in c02 emmisions because NG has become way cheaper than coal... But you say thats a fail. What would be a win in your eyes?" Actually, my main point was that Trump didn't do shit for it. He didn't accomplish anything. Trump attempted to revive coal and failed. The market naturally shifted away from more expensive coal, despite Trump's savior attempts, and that resulted in the CO2 emissions reduction. All despite Trump's efforts. You can't just look at an outcome and make it Trump's. Trump had to have actually done something to earn that outcome.
patom Member	Mon Feb 24 09:15:36 Trump and his followers have taken credit for bringing us back from the brink of a great depression.
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 13:25:54 Hood, They shifted away from.coal to? NG. Are. You saying he hasn't pushed NG at the very least as strong ( is argue more so for NG) Jergul, You make odd statements. The current Fracking is a combo of drilling techniques and fracking, note I said perfected, I didnt say invented. 2ndly, Why do you thinkfracling has been around since the 1800s? Iirc its been around since the 4os however that's not the same as current techniques. They over supplied the market is why the.drop.latley. I do give Obama some credit.Did I deny that?
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 13:57:30 Habebe Patents old as the hills. I think it too early to claim perfected. Water usage is insane. There are a lot of efficiencies still to be harnessed. You are giving Trump credit for something he did not do. Assigning partial credit to someone else who does not deserve it changes nothing. You are in other words mixing up correlation (obama and trump were both presidents at the time oil and gas increased) with causation (obama and trump did not cause the increase). Its a normal mistake to make.
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 14:16:03 So.much there is just plainly false. "Hydraulic fracturing began as an experiment in 1947" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing#Shales You'll just have to take my word that 1947 is NOT in the 1800s. Now I dont want the thread to be taken over by energy policy.we can open up a thread if you want. But are you claiming Trumps policies have had NO noticible impact on the US energy industry?
Wrath of Orion Member	Mon Feb 24 15:11:03 http://aoghs.org/technology/hydraulic-fracturing/ It took seconds to actually Google it.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 15:19:48 Fracturing is just a way of decreasing viscosity and increasing well pressure Habebe. Variants have been around since the 19th century. But does it really matter if it came into being when Trump was a infant, his father was an infant, or his grandfather was? I am claiming that the only important policy impacts relate to increasing the price of oil and gas. We agree that Trump has indeed increased the price of oil, and to some extent gas (as the pricing is somewhat linked). Price drives volume. I will tell you when existing licenses and lack of reserve drill capacity becomes an issue. The US is far from that point.
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 15:38:15 Wrath, As i did. We do not claim helicopters have been around since Michelangelo ....even though the idea and sketches are there. Even your site claims "when hydraulic fracturing arrived in 1949. " Jergul, Some things he has done have increased and others decreased. He increased the price of oil with sanctions but simultaneously helped the US increase supply with us having a great.So it was more a shift. He has also successfully lobbied SA to stabilize prices. I pay now $2.00 a gallon roughly.
Wrath of Orion Member	Mon Feb 24 15:41:31 Slow your roll, retard. I'm not backing a side on this, nor do I believe for a second that you actually Googled anything prior to my post. All I was doing was pointing out what jergul was talking about since you were obviously too lazy to do so.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 15:43:28 Fracking has been around since the 19th century. Trump invented OPEC now? Wow.
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 15:45:31 "nor do I believe for a second that you actually Googled anything prior to my post." Did you not see my post directly above yours with a link to wiki? I wasnt attacking you. --------- Habebe Member Mon Feb 24 14:16:03 So.much there is just plainly false. "Hydraulic fracturing began as an experiment in 1947" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing#Shales You'll just have to take my word that 1947 is NOT in the 1800s. Now I dont want the thread to be taken over by energy policy.we can open up a thread if you want. But are you claiming Trumps policies have had NO noticible impact on the US energy industry?
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 15:46:06 Jergul, Ok... If you say so.
Wrath of Orion Member	Mon Feb 24 15:48:00 You went to a wiki article about hydraulic fracturing. You didn't Google a string that would do anything but take you to that. The point is (you're extremely good at missing people's points, I've noticed) that you asked jergul where he was getting the 19th century claim from instead of actually looking it up yourself. Because you're fucking lazy. Don't lie. You're terrible at it.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 24 15:53:45 The clash of cultures here is the belief that heroic leaders fundamentally shape society through personal intervention. To me, that is a very 20th century idea that fell out of fashion with Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, and the late bloomer Mao. Trump simply does not deserve credit for the expansion of US oil and gas production. Even if you believed he could personally intervene to see it happen, the timeline still does not fit as the revolution began in 2010 and picked up steam from 2012. If anything, he is overseeing the end of dramatic production expansion. I would not blame him for that either.
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 15:55:03 I literally googled "fracking" clicked on the wiki page and cited it where it states Hydraulic fracking was invented in 1947 (1949).
Habebe Member	Mon Feb 24 16:04:00 Jergul, We agree that the vast majority is not attributal to any politician. Where we disagree is that I beleive he has supported and enacted policies that have encouraged*** such activities. As i said before his policies IMHO have helped the US get where we are slightly faster if anything say 1/2-1 MB/D. Actually because of the cost of fracking one could argue the Fed has played a bigger role than any politician. Anyway this all started because of my statement that Trump has been a busy POTUS , getting a lot done regardless of whether people see this as good or bad.
hood Member	Mon Feb 24 17:57:32 Rounds of golf don't count as "getting a lot done."
Dukhat Member	Mon Feb 24 21:40:39 He hasn't really done anything except denude our instutitons of competent, honest people and replaced what few positons remained with lackeys. Fucking idiot cuckservatives live in a fake news world
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