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Utopia Talk / Politics / rofl putin
OsamaIsDaWorstPresid
Member
Mon Mar 30 12:09:43
http://www...in-amendment-power-russia-2024

Putin backs proposal allowing him to remain in power in Russia beyond 2024

Vladimir Putin has moved to cement his hold on power in Russia beyond the middle of the decade, backing a proposed constitutional amendment that would allow him to seek another two terms in the Kremlin.

The Russian president is required by the constitution to step down in 2024, and there have been months of conjecture about how he could stay in power beyond then, or at least ensure a safe transition for himself.

In the end, the puzzle was resolved in an afternoon, in a series of choreographed political steps that took just over three hours and could result in Putin staying on as president until 2036.

The venture began in parliament, where a member of Russia’s ruling party proposed amending the constitution in a way that would “reset” Putin’s presidential term count back to zero.

Putin then announced he would come to address the parliament himself, prompting breathless coverage on state television about whether he would accept or turn down the proposal.

“In principle, this option would be possible,” he said at the end of a half-hour speech. “But on one condition – if the constitutional court gives an official ruling that such an amendment would not contradict the principles and main provisions of the constitution.”

He also said the move would have to be approved by the public in a referendum next month.

It was a significant, if not surprising, about-face for the president, who has been signalling publicly in recent months that he could leave the presidency. In January, he told a veteran of the second world war that he was worried about a return to the 80s, when Kremlin leaders “stayed in power until the end of their days” and did not provide for a transition of power.

On Tuesday, he walked back that statement, saying that modern Russia’s elections made it impossible to return to a Soviet-style procession of leaders-for-life. “I won’t hide that I was wrong,” he said. “It was an incorrect statement because during the Soviet Union there were no elections.”

Ironically, the amendment piggybacks on plans to change the constitution to prevent anyone from serving more than two terms as president in total. The amendment says that the new rule would not count any presidential terms already served. In reality, the amendment affects only two living Russians, Putin and the former prime minister Dmitry Medvedev.

Russia’s opposition, including Putin’s most prominent critic, Alexei Navalny, denounced the proposals as an effort to make him “president for life”. “Interesting how things turn out,” Navalny said in a tweet after Putin’s speech.

Supporters of Putin said the amendment would prevent instability and avoid his being made a lame duck in his last term. “No one is saying that the amendments being proposed today are for Vladimir Putin,” said Alexander Khinshtein, a member of the ruling United Russia party, on state television. He also noted that Putin had not said he would necessarily run in 2024. “But the head of state should have that ability to maintain stability in society.”

Valentina Tereshkova, an MP who as a Soviet cosmonaut became the first woman to fly to space, proposed the amendment as part of a series of constitutional changes going to a nationwide vote on 22 April.

While addressing the Duma on Tuesday, Tereshkova said: “The very existence of an opportunity for the current president [to be re-elected], given his major gravitas, would be a stabilising factor for our society.”

With Putin’s backing, there is little doubt the measure will pass. Support from the constitutional court is likely to be a rubber stamp. Less than an hour after Putin’s address to lawmakers, parliament approved the amendment as part of a wider revision of Russia’s constitution.

The 67-year-old, in power for 20 years, is Russia’s longest-serving leader since Stalin. If he serves out both terms from 2024 he will surpass the Soviet dictator.

The decision comes after a months-long effort to revise Russia’s constitution announced in January by Putin. Before Tuesday, some observers believed he was seeking another seat in government to maintain power and ensure his personal safety after leaving the presidency.

It is unclear whether Putin had planned to stay on as president all along or had come to the decision more recently.

In his speech, he said he hoped that one day the institution of the presidency in Russia would not be “so personified in a single person”, but added: “that is how all of our history ended up and of course we can’t not take that into account”.

On the subject of whether he would actually run again in 2024, Putin told lawmakers: “I’m sure that we will do many great things together, at least before 2024. Then we’ll see.”
OsamaIsDaWorstPresid
Member
Mon Mar 30 12:09:54
"On Tuesday, he walked back that statement, saying that modern Russia’s elections made it impossible to return to a Soviet-style procession of leaders-for-life. "

rofl
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 12:17:57
Ruggy
You could say exactly the same thing about Truman. Changing the constitution in a way that gives him infinite terms.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 12:18:15
Him, but no one else after him.
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 30 17:11:32
Swing and a miss there, bud
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:18:48
Swing and hit.

Feel free to check out the wording in your constitution that specifically exempted Truman from term limits.

You should read your founding document. You might learn something.
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 30 17:22:03
And as usual, your argument is nothing more than a ridiculous non-comparison. Truman didn't spend his first eight years in office cracking down on anyone who could pose a political threat to him, then "stepped down" for four years while continuing to control the country through a puppet, then returning to the presidency after ramming through enabling constitutional changes, and after that proposed further constitutional changes allowing him to remain in office for another twelve years.

Did I mention the part about cracking down on political opponents? Oh yeah. Truman's opponents never found themselves to be arrested, banned from associating or participating in elections, having their assets seized, getting shot on the street by unknown assailants, being thrown from their apartment buildings, beaten to death while in police custody, or dying of polonium poisoning. Yeah, none of that ever happened.

But feel free to go on pretending that these arguments are persuading anyone with a brain. I'm sure the stipend you get from Moscow for propagandizing this shithole board is a nice amount.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:28:15
Ruggy
He dropped two atomic bombs. Nuff said, though we could say more.

You really should let go of your hatred for everything not MAGA.

Its unseemly and disgusting.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:30:35
I would also be seriously off Moscow's message on everything Trump.

He remains its favoured candidate. As only stands to reason. He gets mancrushes on any strongman who enters his radar.

Belorus must feel left out. It should call the WH for some brotherly love.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:32:11
Come to think of it. Moscow bashing is off the MAGA message too. You should read the campaign emails with greater care.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:32:42
Or are threads like this just you attempting to be fair and balanced?
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 30 17:34:35
jergul
large member Mon Mar 30 17:28:15
Ruggy
He dropped two atomic bombs. Nuff said, though we could say more.

I'm not sure WTF you're talking about. If you can identify any way in which dropping atomic bombs on the enemy was a destructive measure against the body politic, well you're more inventive than me then.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:40:21
Yah, you are really off message. Has your campaign supervisor talked to you yet?

1 min ago
Trump says US has received supplies from other countries, including medical equipment from Russia

From CNN's Maegan Vazquez

President Trump said Monday that the United States has received donations from other countries to deal with the spread of the coronavirus, including supplies from Russia and China.

“China sent us some stuff, which was terrific. Russia sent us a very, very large planeload of things, medical equipment which was very nice,” Trump told reporters in the White House Rose Garden.

================

Why is using WMD on civilians bad you ask? ROFL.
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 30 17:42:35
You're right, we should have launched a general invasion of the islands instead. That would have been nowhere near as destructive to the civilian population.

But that's a red herring anyway. Measures taken against enemy states in time of war have nothing to do with assuming dictatorial powers at home.
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 30 17:45:25
Someone's a little hurt that he got called out for being a Soviet propagandist. What's the matter jergul, still upset that the ruble fell off a cliff after the whole Ukraine thing? In that case, I'm sorry your payments aren't worth much these days, but really there's only so much you can sell before people stop finding you credible.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:51:08
Ruggy
You should have agreed to let their head of state remain in power and then accept their surrender.

It was the only thing they cared about against the backdrop of the Soviet Union steamrolling their regular army units.

Its not a red herring. We are looking at attrocious things heads of state do. And nothing matches Truman's nukes, though I have heard everything appologists have to say on the matter.

So Putin gets the same exemption Truman did. So what?

We should perhaps examine race relations in the immediate post war period. Or note that Mccarthyism began with an executive order screening federal employees for loyalty.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 17:54:18
As to taking payments from Russia. I would know nothing about that. Perhaps you GOP handler knows a few of the Trump's cronies who have demonstratably taken money from that part of the planet. They can fill you in on the details.

You are a far better suited for their goals than I am.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 30 18:00:21
A Federal judge blocked the Texas ban on abortion. Perhaps there is still hope for you yet. I am less vexed.
kargen
Member
Mon Mar 30 19:19:12
jergul has taken this social distancing thing a bit to far and has gone and put his brain in a jar six feet away.
sam adams
Member
Tue Mar 31 10:17:30
"You should have agreed to let their head of state remain in power and then accept their surrender."

Ahahahahahahahahajajahaha jerguls love for dictators and hatred for western democracy has now caused him to to try to appease imperial japan.

Ahahahahaha
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 10:42:48
Sammy
You appeased imperial Japan anyway. Its the exact same outcome except for the nukes.

Maybe take McArthurs dick out of your mouth and hands next time you post?

It was hard to understand what you posted.
Rugian
Member
Tue Mar 31 10:54:43
Note how jergul is unsuccessfully trying to derail his own thread with a non-sequitor about atomic bombs, which have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Not that his argument would have merits even if this were a nuclear bomb thread. The bombings were acceptable in a war in which firebombings and leveling of cities were commonplace.

Or is jergul now arguing that Chiukov should have accepted the German offer of white peace in order to save Berlin from destruction?

This is beyond ridiculous. Puting (jergul's paymaster) is a piece of shit and Russia has suffered a lost generation as a result of his self-aggrandizing misrule. Sorry if he doesnt like to hear that, but facts are facts.
sam adams
Member
Tue Mar 31 12:21:22
Jergul you really have gone off the deep end of pro-dictator knob slobbing
sam adams
Member
Tue Mar 31 12:22:12
If you ever want people to take you seriously you have to knock that shit off.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 13:00:07
Ruggy
Wrong. Stop project the MAGA message onto me. Trump fondled Russian and Chinese balls yesterday for God's sake.

Sammy
The dictiator dick guzzlers these days are MAGA.
Rugian
Member
Tue Mar 31 13:27:28
*Putin stays in power for up to 32 years, enjoys effective one-party rule, murders his opponents*

*jergul worships him as a hero*

*Trump is the subject of substantial scrutiny by the free press, has substantial checks on his powers via the legislative and judicial branches and faces a free and fair election that could see him unseated within a year*

*gets called a dictator by jergul*

How long before calling you stupid stops being an insult and becomes a mere statement of fact? Being contrarian is one thing, but you still have to operate within the limits of realism. Otherwise you get insane shit like this thread.
Daemon
Member
Tue Mar 31 14:05:36
http://www...utin-last-week-has-coronavirus

Denis Protsenko, the doctor who last week gave Russian President Vladimir Putin a tour of Moscow’s main hospital devoted to coronavirus patients, said he has been diagnosed with the illness but is feeling good.

“I have tested positive,” Protsenko, director of Hospital No. 40, wrote in Facebook. “But I feel fine.”

Putin, who wasn’t wearing any protective gear when he met and shook hands with Protsenko March 24, is regularly tested and is fine, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Tuesday. Protsenko last week warned the president that Russia should brace for the disease spreading like it has in Italy.

“I’ve isolated myself in my office, where everything is in place for remote work, management and telemedicine consultations,” Protsenko wrote. “I think the immunity that I’ve built up over this month is doing its work....stay tuned.”

Protsenko, 44, has been the face of Moscow’s battle with coronavirus for many Russians thanks to his regular posts on social media calling attention to the domestic spread of the pandemic. In the week since his meeting with Putin, Moscow has gone on lockdown, with people told to remain at home.

Russia on Tuesday reported a 27% increase in coronavirus infections overnight, bringing the total to 2,337.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 14:09:08
Ruggy
Really hard to maintain a semblance of a discussion with you when you lack even rudamentary reading comprehension skills.

Trump is the one with a brocrush Ruggy. I at worst compared Russian Constitutional changes to the ones that benefited Truman. By extention, you are the one with the dictator fetish and are currently projecting.

I am no fan of Putin and have repeatedly stated that the annexation of Crimea was a worse violation of Westphalia than the invasion and occupation of Iraq (which was at least reversible to some extent).

What you cannot take is people taking off rose-tinted glasses and looking at the US in the same way we would any global leader wannabe.

You simply cannot take it when we don't like you more than we do other scumbag competitors with global pretensions.
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Mar 31 14:24:07
I have not read the whole thread, but speaking of how dictatorships look, I have never seen anything like Donald's press conferences, in civilized countries. Every official who speaks, first praises president lavishly, in absurd terms, lauding Trumps imaginary contributions to whatever, and his great acumen in science, business, etc.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 14:25:52
CR
Thats just cult of personality. Turns out you can combine that with democratic checks and balances. Like say impeachment, conviction and other forms of power limitations.
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Mar 31 14:27:29
in US? Or in Russia?
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 14:29:59
Both. Managed democracy is very flexible. Some would almost say loose.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 14:30:51
Fawning over Putin is actually worse. At least in the US you know some of the ball fondling is done ironically for access.
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Mar 31 14:32:08
I'd have to see limitations like impeachment of president actually happen in russia, before I agree with 'both"
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 14:35:42
CR
How do you feel the impeachment limited Trump? But there are degrees of whorish democracy.

I was refering directly to your description of Trump press conferences. That is cult of personality stuff.

Like I said, some of it done ironically no doubt for access, but its still cultish.

The fairest you could say is that the cult is a bubble that actually does not encompass much of America.

We will see come election. If the election is not delayed.
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Mar 31 14:42:20
"How do you feel the impeachment limited Trump?"


I don't know if it did, in practice. Maybe it didn't limit him at all, same with Clinton impeachment. But it sure does on paper, it gives opposition something to attack, it is widely discussed in media with all the unflattering details, it puts some political pressure on the impeached president's party lawmakers. None of that is relevant in russia, of course, thats why I said what I said
Rugian
Member
Tue Mar 31 14:44:34
Jergul

Dont blame me for your ESL failings. When you say shit like "dictator dick suckers are MAGA," there are only so many ways to interpret that.

All presidents heap praise on Third World shithiles at some point in their career. It's called diplomacy. For you to imply that its outside the norm is retarded.

We're not talking about the Crimea, we're talking about the governance of Russia under Putin and how he's an authoritarian strongman with few effective limits on his power. The Crimea thing is a dodge, and retarded.

Throwing the word dictatorship at a multi-party democracy with free and fair elections, and independent media, and divided government is retarded.

You are retarded.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 14:45:05
Fair enough. Putin is indeed firmly entrenched.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 31 14:45:57
Ruggy
ROFL. Just shut up already.
obaminated
Member
Tue Mar 31 15:17:49
why does anyone bother arguing with jergul? his opinion only exists on this forum because people give him attention. anywhere else on the internet and he would be ridiculed because he really has no competent argument on anything. when confronted with reality he throws out an unrelated issue and, unfortunately, a specific poster (rugian), keeps following him down the rabbit hole, as opposed to forcing jergul to stay on topic.
Rugian
Member
Tue Mar 31 17:53:02
Obam

What can I say, I have a strong evangelist spirit. Hope springs eternal that he may one day abandon his communist ways and embrace the light that is American-led Western Civilization.

I do indulge him too much in his non-sequitors though I admit.
jergul
large member
Wed Apr 01 16:55:03
"The New York Air Traffic Controller thanked the Russian pilot when the plane landed at JFK airport.

“Rome Foxtrot Foxtrot 8460 Heavy, we sincerely thank you for all the assistance you are bringing in,” the controller said. “Have a good day.”

The shipment includes personal protective equipment including masks, ventilators, and antiseptics a State Department official told CNN. The US will put all Food and Drug Administration approved items to immediate use, a senior administration official said on Tuesday.

Some context: The shipment comes just days after President Trump and President Vladimir Putin spoke over the phone.

The Russian assistance was not mentioned in the readout of their call provided by the White House. But earlier this week Trump said that "Russia sent us a very, very large planeload of things, medical equipment, which was very nice."

Last month, before that phone call, the State Department urged diplomats worldwide to ask for medical supplies from their host countries, but said that they would not be asking Russia."

Bromances pay off. You be proud of Trump leveraging the art of the deal to get free stuff from Putin.
jergul
large member
Wed Apr 01 16:55:20
cnn
jergul
large member
Wed Apr 01 17:07:47
http://tass.com/world/1138967

Nothing to get sore about Ruggy. Or perhaps there is.

A big aircraft. It penetrated US airspace and dumped its load.

But a phone call is so old school. Trump and Putin should use Grindr for their next hookup.

jergul
large member
Wed Apr 01 17:09:26
#whoringformuhrica
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Apr 02 03:09:57
"because he really has no competent argument on anything."

I disagree, Jergul has many competent arguments on lots of things. I still think he is wrong on many things, but that is the nature of the game. His arguments are competent here, just not convincing me (they are not designed to convince), but rather providing different shades. Also it is 25% trolling.



CrownRoyal
Member
Thu Apr 02 06:51:18
“ You be proud of Trump leveraging the art of the deal to get free stuff from Putin.”

It wasn’t free, US paid for it

http://www...f-needed-supplies-from-russia/
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 02 06:54:06
CR
You cannot blame Trump that underlings later agree to pay for it.

That happens all the time. Trump does stuff and someone else pays later without Trump being aware of the transactions.
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 02 06:56:21
I wish we lived in a world where this was not so easy.
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 02 07:03:25
Trump: Hey Vlad, we need *stuff*
Putin: Sure Donny, I will send *stuff* in huge phallic symbol.
Trump: Thanks, buddy!

WH-admin: WTF?
WH-admin: Honourable President Putin. In regards to your earlier conversation with President Trump, we would like to offer you money for the agreed *stuff*

Putin: Whatever. Talk to one of my people.
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 02 09:01:40
Well, at least the wife laughed when I read her the last post :).
jergul
large member
Thu Apr 02 12:08:57
(CNN)Russian President Vladimir Putin knows how to make a very small investment for an outsized public-relations gain, and the Covid-19 pandemic has been no exception.
On Wednesday, a Russian An-124 cargo plane landed at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport carrying a shipment of medical supplies, including ventilators and personal protective equipment, to help US hospitals and communities on the front lines of the fight with coronavirus.
It was a from-Russia-with-love moment: The New York air traffic controller thanked the Russian pilot when the massive aircraft landed, and Dmitry Polyanskiy, Russia's First Deputy Permanent Representative to the United Nations, tweeted that the shipment was a "gesture of solidarity with New Yorkers who are in a very difficult situation at the moment."

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said that the Russian side offered Washington assistance in light of the epidemiological situation in the US, Russian state news agency RIA-Novosti reported Tuesday. "Trump gratefully accepted this humanitarian aid," Peskov said, according to RIA.
Coronavirus deals blow to Putin's plans to stay in power until 2036
Coronavirus deals blow to Putin's plans to stay in power until 2036
At first, it seemed like a typically Putinesque masterstroke of public relations: Russia, once a recipient of US aid after the collapse of the Soviet Union, was now coming to the aid of the world's wealthiest nation. But in a statement, US State Department spokesperson Morgan Ortagus emphasized that the shipment was a purchase, not a donation.
"As a follow-up to the March 30 phone call between President Trump and President Putin, the United States has agreed to purchase needed medical supplies, including ventilators and personal protection equipment, from Russia, which were handed over to FEMA on April 1 in New York City" she said.
The Kremlin, nonetheless, cast the delivery as a humanitarian act. Russia's Foreign Ministry said Thursday that half of the aid sent to the US against the coronavirus was paid for by American taxpayers, and half by Russian Direct Investment Fund, Russia's sovereign wealth fund.
On the same day the Russian cargo plane landed in New York, the Russian military -- which has tightly scripted the public information around its mission -- released footage of its doctors and chemical/biological/radiological specialists working to sanitize Italian senior care centers using mobile spray disinfection stations and decontamination equipment. They were part of a military mission dispatched earlier by the Russian Ministry of Defense, which sent nine Il-76 aircraft with teams of virologists and epidemiologists to help Italy in its response to the pandemic.
How Russia is using authoritarian tech to curb coronavirus
How Russia is using authoritarian tech to curb coronavirus
So what, exactly, was Putin's calculation in sending aid abroad, precisely at a moment when coronavirus cases seem to be ramping up in Russia itself?
Russia officially has 3,548 confirmed cases of coronavirus, according to the country's monitoring headquarters. That's a relatively low figure, compared with China or the United States. But Russian authorities have signaled that they expect the situation to worsen: Russians are currently under an enforced regime of self-isolation, and Putin signed a law this week that increases penalties for violating quarantine rules. Authorities in Moscow have said they are preparing to roll out a digital enforcement tool that will use QR codes and a smartphone app to enforce the lockdown in the capital.
The delivery of much-needed equipment to the US, then, has come in for some criticism in Russia, where reports of protective equipment shortages have caused concern.
The Alliance of Doctors, a professional advocacy group, criticized the fanfare around the US shipment. "Well, great," the organization said in a statement. "We collect money all over the country to buy remedies for doctors, and our authorities sell personal protective equipment in the United States. Pure mockery."
Post-Soviet strongmen prescribe vodka, hockey and folk medicine against coronavirus
Post-Soviet strongmen prescribe vodka, hockey and folk medicine against coronavirus
In a conference call with reporters Thursday, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov defended Russia's actions.
"There is always criticism of this nature, but at the same time international cooperation in fighting coronavirus is a very important measure of activities of any country," Peskov said. "No country can effectively fight the virus alone without international cooperation."

Leave aside for a moment the controversy in Russia around the shipment: Internationally, it's a relatively inexpensive way for Putin to build goodwill with President Donald Trump.
Russia, after all, remains under US and European sanction over the 2014 annexation of Crimea, and relations between Moscow and Washington are abysmal. For both a Russian and international audience, then, the aid shipments send a powerful visual signal: Putin, once again, is playing the decisive man of action.

CNN's Matthew Chance contributed to this article
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