Utopia Talk / Politics / lol@ny

sam adams Member	Sun Apr 05 11:04:56 http://www...es-during-coronavirus-pandemic NEW YORK - Despite the coronavirus pandemic, some New Yorkers are still piling on to crowded subway cars and buses to get to work every day.
sam adams Member	Sun Apr 05 11:08:23 Big city collectivist retards: lets all get together in tiny enclosed spaces. Rednecks and religious retards: its all a government conspiracy trying to stop us from attending church. God will save us! I knew it im surrounded by retards!
Pillz Member	Sun Apr 05 11:35:31 Waiting for stats out of ny
Rugian Member	Sun Apr 05 13:03:39 It's a good thing that leftist cities have been progressively eliminating parking capacity over the last decade. Wouldn't want to have the masses be able to transport themselves in the safety of their own cars after all.
Habebe Member	Sun Apr 05 13:04:14 Let it burn, wanna let it burn Wanna wanna let it buuurn.
Seb Member	Sun Apr 05 13:39:30 Sam, how do doctors and other key workers get to critical work in a city?
Paramount Member	Sun Apr 05 13:42:30 Rugian, air pollution (like micro particles that are torn up by cars) kills more people than the flu does.
Rugian Member	Sun Apr 05 13:48:37 Paramount Member Sun Apr 05 13:42:30 Rugian, air pollution (like micro particles that are torn up by cars) kills more people than the flu does. Well we clearly care less about those deaths, since we don't shut down the entire fucking country in an attempt to stop them. Can you imagine how many lives we could save if we banned cars? Think of how much less pollution and traffic accidents we'd have! Shut it all down now! Even one lost life is too many! Goddamnit the hysterics peddled by the media have turned us all into gigantic pussies.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 05 14:31:22 these are "the President's guidelines"... they say it repeatedly at the briefings blame him "Believe in the President’s Coronavirus Guidelines for America" ~Mike Pence
sam adams Member	Sun Apr 05 14:52:06 "Sam, how do doctors and other key workers get to critical work in a city?" Cars, like civilized first world humans?
Nekran Member	Sun Apr 05 15:56:30 Have you seen the traffic in NYC?
hood Member	Sun Apr 05 15:59:47 These days? it's pretty decent.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Apr 05 16:04:02 Yea, even in stockholm you probably get where you are going quicker riding with the pleb.
sam adams Member	Sun Apr 05 16:10:06 Ya on a normal day the traffic and parking is horrendous but these are not normal days. Moving arounding by car in cities is suddenly much less annoying.
chuck Member	Sun Apr 05 16:11:03 Ridership is down 90% for subways. Service is reduced even more. Simple math reveals the problem there unless your main concern is navel gazing clickbait.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Apr 05 16:11:13 According to google 1 Boston 2 DC 3 Chicago 4 NYC In terms of hours lost in congestion. It’s a mteropolitan problems by design. Well, a side effect.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Apr 05 16:12:27 Chuck is not taking any prisoners today.
Seb Member	Sun Apr 05 18:20:19 Sam: Yes, I'm sure nurses, hopsital cleaners and porters keep cars in NYC for these occasions of global pandemic, availing themselves of the copious off-street parking that high density accommodation is famed for providing. And if there is no bread for them to eat, I'm sure Sam Antoinette will let them eat cake.
Seb Member	Sun Apr 05 18:22:55 If Sam falls ill - of anything - I think he should live by his creed and insist on being treated in a small town hospital by the drunk local family doctor that doubles as the vet. No big general hospital for him if he gets cancer, just a wooden spoon to bite on while Mad Doc Haskins gets out his trusty bone saw and scalpel and hacks it out.
sam adams Member	Sun Apr 05 19:39:15 "availing themselves of the copious off-street parking that high density accommodation is famed for providing. " Right. High density accommodation sucks. Glad you reached that conclusion. Thus, NYC sucks, as do most city cores. Also what if I told you of this magical location where both hospitals and parking can exist in large numbers. In the civilized world we call this location "the suburbs". Or perhaps "towns".
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 01:55:21 Suburbs depend on city cores to exist. Towns that don't have a strong economic relationship with a dense metropolitan area are horrific in terms of what services they can offer. If all those people in NYC that still have to travel on metros could live in suburbs, you wouldn't have general hospitals at all. It's one thing to imagine yourself superior because you are living in the sticks, it's quite another to blame them for the structural defects in your country and society which you yourself politically support and which you yourself require to exist in order to support your own lifestyle. You are such a failure of a human being Sam.
Rugian Member	Mon Apr 06 02:23:44 The idea that people in cities are too poor to own cars is some gay European shit. In reality, outside the Northeast Corrider most Ameeican urbanites own cars. It's called not living in a socialist shithole.
Dukhat Member	Mon Apr 06 02:38:00 *yawn* Rugian always gets it wrong. Go take a nap buddy.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 04:09:23 Rugian: Most people in the US are nurses, cleaners and hospital porters?
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 04:09:37 Learn to read Rugian.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 04:10:43 Is NY not in the North East corridor, Rugian?
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 04:13:03 Many urbanites in Europe largely choose not to have a car because they rarely need it, because they have functioning transport infrastructure at local, regional and national scale. The US is developing world in that respect, again as a matter of ideology driven policy choice.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 11:08:24 Lol@seb. Mass transportation is for the poor, the stupid, and the diseased, as is high density living. It is testament to the failure and laziness of the modern socialist. So of course seb loves it. Of course.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 11:18:15 Sam: No it isn't. You just work hard to make sure that a sizeable proportion of the country is poor, remove their healthcare access so they are diseased, underfund mass transit, then waste your life driving through traffic or isolating yourself, and convince yourself that you are doing better because you've trashed your cities but bought yourself something better than your trashed cities but demonstrably worse than if you hadn't trashed the cities in the first place. It's sad Sam. You haven't succeeded, you've just failed as a nation to give yourself the illusion of individual success.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 11:28:58 "You just work hard to make sure that a sizeable proportion of the country is poor" No seb, you collectivist retard. Poor is the natural state. Lack of rescources is what happens when you dont work. You are a retarded socialist who has everything backwards. You reward failure with redistributed rescources, which of course doesnt make everyone equally rich. Instead it rewards failure and punishes success, turning once strong nations into mediocre cesspools of mass transportation and high density living. Your best and brightest left long ago, moving to the land of the free where they were not anchored to failure by hopeless masses of mediocrity.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 11:32:12 But i can see why you would prefer the guaranteed mediocre existence of the uk. It is a better system for the weak and stupid.
Forwyn Member	Mon Apr 06 11:44:41 "Towns that don't have a strong economic relationship with a dense metropolitan area are horrific in terms of what services they can offer." What is your definition of "dense"? Plenty of 100k-250k population cores have all of the services with none of the drawbacks of mega-urban shitholes.
jergul large member	Mon Apr 06 12:02:18 The dream of small town USA is alive and kicking I see. Though on a gliding scale and sort of dicounting the opoid crisis. Or the covid-19 crisis for that matter. Forwyn Humour me. Give me a suburbanite paradise by name. Lets see how it does under a bit of pressure.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 12:26:06 "Humour me. Give me a suburbanite paradise by name." Uh, half. Theres too many to choose from, mainly in the western US and canada. But for a few: from north to south: north vancouver, squamish, whistler BC. The eastern and northern suburbs of seattle(theres about 20). Bozeman montana, coeur d'alene, boise, sun valley idaho. West portland and its dozen suburbs. Bend, OR is a huge destination for upper middle class these days and is awesome. Pretty much every town in wyoming. Half of colorado, but especially boulder, colorado springs, breck, and rifle. Park city utah, east sac and marin county near SFO. Parts of reno. santa fe and taos NM. Flagstaff and Tucson AZ. Ill even add valparaiso chile, and mendoza argentina if you want to diversify a little. Quick list. Im missing many.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 12:31:03 And there are pretty nice suburbs that are near the giant east coast tech city of boston. Hell even NYC has some decent burbs. Then all sorts of nice college towns in Appalachia. They all lose points for being on the east coast and not having real mountains but they are still much much nicer than the urban cores and most of europe.
Paramount Member	Mon Apr 06 13:49:59 So I read that NY is thinking about burying dead people in Central Park. Because they have got to get rid of the bodies somewhere. Is burying them in parks better than ovens?
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 14:10:10 Just toss em in the east river.
Paramount Member	Mon Apr 06 14:15:45 Mark D. Levine @MarkLevineNYC Chair of New York City Council health committee. Soon we'll start “temporary interment”. This likely will be done by using a NYC park for burials (yes you read that right). Trenches will be dug for 10 caskets in a line. http://twi...tatus/1247156159896748032?s=20 So if Jews dies of covid-19... the options are then to bury them in trenches or to burn them in ovens?
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 14:16:25 Paramount went there
Paramount Member	Mon Apr 06 14:16:42 * or toss them in the river
jergul large member	Mon Apr 06 14:29:53 Sammy I just want 1. To see how it does under pressure.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 14:57:56 Better than urban cores for sure.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 15:00:23 But most skiing has been shut down just in time for prime corn season. This of course, is a fucking disaster!!!
jergul large member	Mon Apr 06 16:16:51 Why not name a town. Lets see how it does.
jergul large member	Mon Apr 06 16:17:25 heh, I have been skiing 5 of the last 7 days :D.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 16:22:23 You bastard!
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 18:26:51 Sam: "Lack of rescources is what happens when you dont work." Do nurses not work? Do hospital porters not work? They almost certainly work longer hours than you do in a year. And if you fall sick, it will be their labour that determines in part if you live or die. Their wages are set by supply and demand, and it is certainly true that many more people are capable of being a hospital worker than are capable of doing the job I do - and probably you, whatever boring quant job it is you do - but that doesn't mean their work is a failure. Indeed, in so far as you may ever need hospital care, which one day you will unless you die suddenly in an accident (failure) - your life will be utterly dependent on what you call *their* failure. "which of course doesnt make everyone equally rich." Why would you ever think that is the object? The point is to provide a decent standard of living for all because that creates a decent society for all to live in. You cower out in the hicks because you fear the cities, yet it is your policy choice to make cities dangerous, crime ridden, dirty because you ideologically consider providing an acceptable level of public services to be rewarding failure. A failure that you actually depend on. This is my point. It is not necessary or desirable to have everybody equal or wealthy - nor am I advocating that. I am simply saying your sabotage of the fabric of society and desire to "punish" those who aren't doing whatever tedious shit you do or an analogue for "failing" is equally absurd, in fact more so. No society could function if everyone did whatever tedious niche it is you fill even under the most wild theory. It's far more absurd than Marxist ideology of everyone getting the same outcome. "moving to the land of the free where they were not anchored to failure by hopeless masses of mediocrity." Says the man that cowers in fear of his own fellow citizens as he sees them as sub human threats.
Seb Member	Mon Apr 06 18:34:53 And indeed, being a Nurse is only a "failure" because you choose to make life without a hefty income pitiful and wretched through the running down of public goods. It is precisely as I said: you strive hard to create a society that punishes people for doing the basic work needed to make society vaguely functional for yourselves, when you could equally chose to spend a fraction more to make a wonderful society for all. There would still be nurses, you would still do the job you do, your wages would still be greatly different and you would be wealthier than the nurse by a considerable degree. But society would be less miserable and more healthy. Your choice not to do this is entirely built around the moral imperative to punish people for filling roles that are essential to be filled. Lets imagine that the entire of society were filled with identical clones of Sam - with the same abilities. Here's the thing, there wouldn't be more tedious quant jobs, some of those Sam's would get the tedious well paid quant job, and it would come down to random fluctuations which ones did, and the others would trickle down into low level service jobs. And because wages are set by supply and demand, even a Sam doing a nurses job would still get paid a nurses wage, even if he was in principle capable of doing high paid tedious quant work.
Forwyn Member	Mon Apr 06 20:31:21 How did you get on a nurse rant, and in what world are US nurses paid shit? The median salary for a nurse (of all levels including and above RN) is $68k, vs $52k for all Bachelor's degree holders.
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 21:45:03 "The median salary for a nurse (of all levels including and above RN) is $68k, vs $52k for all Bachelor's degree holders." Lol seb is that much of a retard that he never lets such inconvenient things such as facts get in the way of his retarded socialist rants. 2 pages of ranting about all sorts of confused socialist garbage that was all based on his error. Ahahaha
sam adams Member	Mon Apr 06 21:59:29 "you strive hard to create a society that punishes people for doing the basic work needed to make society vaguely functional" No, you are the socialist retard that wants to increase their taxes and redistribute it to those mooches that cant even hack a nurses job.
Seb Member	Tue Apr 07 02:53:43 "muuuh, investing in public good and a functioning state is socialism!" "What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." "It is the great multiplication of the productions of all the different arts, in consequence of the division of labour, which occasions, in a well-governed society, that universal opulence which extends itself to the lowest ranks of the people." Nooo. The commies brainwashed Adam Smith.
Seb Member	Tue Apr 07 03:08:52 Forwyn: That's because RNs include nurse practitioners and physician assistants with median salaries of 100k+ and EMTs, paramedics and licensed vocational/practical nurses with 30-40k. It's a multi modal population. The operation of a care setting involves all of them. And the cleaners, and the porters. The point stands. Those people are all failures in Sam's eyes, but the society he lives in *requires* these roles to function and he requires that society in order that he succeeds, and advocates that these people *should* live unpleasant lives as a moral consequence of "failing", even though it's as obvious that a socket where it would actually be possible for everyone to succeed on merit even if they were all equally meritorious is as fallacious as Marx's vision, if not more so. Marx at least postulated people would swap roles, whereas somehow Sam thinks universal success would be everyone doing the roles Sam thinks are valuable. Bluntly, it's a veneer for Sam to feel good about being needlessly nasty to people, because being needlessly nasty is what makes Sam feel good about himself. Providing decent standards of living and eliminating poverty doesn't mean socialism and enforced equality of outcome. It just means not treating poverty as a hallmark of deficient character and this justifying human misery as justice.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Apr 07 11:18:51 1. Don’t care about misery 2. Find joy in others misery 3. Wish death on the miserable The three stages of Samism I guess that’s just how you were raised.
Forwyn Member	Tue Apr 07 11:51:49 "EMTs, paramedics" Lol. No. EMTs are not nurses. It's a one semester ordeal to be qualified. People are techs/EMTs while they go through school to be RNs/BSNs. Then they're making 50-60k in a normal state (closer to 100k in a state like NY or Cali, but still poorer, lol). Then they can take graduate classes and be a NP. Now, yeah, they're at 100k and beyond. The one hiccup is LPN licensing, which for some reason is a separate path that retardedly doesn't contribute to the overall advancement path. In any case, nurses have competitive wages, typically higher than fellow undergraduates, with a clear path of continued education and advancement. Even without it, RNs/BSNs make pretty good money, and have plenty of incentives (more for working nights, opportunities for travel, big sign on bonuses, etc). It's true that an organization like a hospital requires workers at all levels. Ideally, and it held true anecdotally, the vast majority of people working as techs, transport, food service, etc, are 18-25 year olds, and a lot of them are pursuing their education. If you're 45 and still carting food up to rooms while your peers all took advantage of Pell Grants and scholarships and finished nursing school, it's hard to objectively argue that you are equally as successful and deserving of the same standard of living.
sam adams Member	Tue Apr 07 12:09:39 Seb, no one is calling nurses failures, except your imaginary memory. You have devolved into ranting at ghosts in order to justify your socialist stances.
Nekran Member	Tue Apr 07 12:45:48 "those mooches that cant even hack a nurses job." This quote of yours clearly implies that being a nurse is a super low bar to clear. Which is funny, considering I'm quite sure you would not be able to clear it.
Seb Member	Tue Apr 07 14:46:07 Forwyn: https://www.allnursingschools.com/registered-nursing/salary/ seemed to suggest EMTs are registered as nurses. Regulation will vary. Nevertheless, the point stands - you have a fucking city full of key workers that need to get to work. You say "equally deserving of the same standard of living" - this is not the same as saying "deserving of a good standard of living". As I pointed out, in an imaginary world where everyone is equally capable, supply and demand dynamics would still dictate a stratification of wages based on roles that needed to be filled, and the productivity of those roles. Wages don't correlate at all well to "merit" - at best you can argue that in a truly competitive system they are ordered, but that doesn't mean that someone earning say, half the wage of another person is half as deserving. Wages sort themselves out in a free market system based on competition and that's that - and that's fine. But I'm not talking about equality, despite your desperate attempts to weave a strawman. I'm talking about equity and public goods. The first here is about the minimum standard of living a society ought to ensure, and public goods, that is the provision of certain basic service and infrastructure in society because it is inhumane not to. You've implicitly inverted the logic of rewarding those who achieve more into a perverse argument that says any level of degredation or poverty is justified on the basis that those suffering should have worked harder, even though the whole structure of the economy requires these roles be filled before it can sustain roles higher in the value chain. We couldn't all be investment bankers, even if we all had the aptitude and education to be one. Someone's got to fucking staff the retail industry and a million other tedious, low value jobs that will never sustain a large salary before the economy is complex enough for functions that can capture or add a huge nominal value via a small margin on a large baseline exist which can then afford much larger salaries. Given that is the logical necessity of the situation. it's morally repugnant to say it's ok that many in the US don't have adequate western standards of living because "they didn't succeed", when the success of your society is dependent on them not "succeeding". Anyway, net result now, you have an economy and healthcare system that is geared up to people being less healthy than they ought to be given America's wealth, who are strongly disincentivised for seeking medical attention, strongly disincentivised for confirming if they are ill, and strongly disincentivised to take sick leave, and as a result you have the fastest growing pandemic in the world. Yaaaay for your absurd degenerate model of capitalism. Sam: Nekran has pointed it out and there is little more worth adding.
smart dude Member	Tue Apr 07 14:59:02 "the whole structure of the economy requires these roles be filled before it can sustain roles higher in the value chain" Why stop at the economy? Life itself requires lower beings to conduct photosynthesis, but nobody considers a plant to be equal with humans. Necessary and brainless/expendble are not mutually exclusive.
Forwyn Member	Tue Apr 07 15:12:39 Your entire premise, and indeed, your imaginary world, ignores the progress of life and advancement of its members. It will hold more sway when we can drastically increase lifespans. For now, there will always be low-education teenagers, and high-income seniors dying off. And really, you picked the worst industry to rant about. Nursing is probably THE most reliable gender-neutral path out of poverty. It has a natural progression with competitive wages - even for EMTs (for now, until the food service workers get the $15 minimum wage you're clamoring for and push the EMTs to the wage floor). I wouldn't mind seeing studies quantifying how many single mothers pulled themselves and their families out of poverty through nursing.
sam adams Member	Tue Apr 07 15:17:28 "Yaaaay for your absurd degenerate model of capitalism." The sad rant of an ininformed marxist who forgets his country is as poor as alabana. Seb is broken.
sam adams Member	Tue Apr 07 15:18:19 Ill-informed
sam adams Member	Tue Apr 07 15:19:34 Why is it always the failures that want socialism?
Seb Member	Tue Apr 07 15:50:36 Sam: "muuuuh socialism" Forwyn: You are the one obsessing over nurses! You seem to have decided the point being made was about nurses pay, not the fact that ny public to transport is going to be filled with people that need to travel on it in order to sustain vital functions for tackling the pandemic. It's utterly blinkered and completely missed the point. It was Sam that deemed these people failures.
sam adams Member	Tue Apr 07 15:54:38 Seb: rants for many pages about nurses Also seb: "Forwyn: You are the one obsessing over nurses!" Seb, you are not just always wrong, you are usually the exact opposite of what is true.
Seb Member	Tue Apr 07 21:12:01 Sam: Nurses were one of four examples of key workers that I gave Sam. Why is Forwyn focusing solely on the nurses? Why are you focusing solely on the nurses?
Forwyn Member	Tue Apr 07 21:38:21 There are eight mentions of nurses in this thread before I mentioned them. 8/8 Seb
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 06:03:16 Lol seb never fails to be wrong. He cant even remember what he said in a given thread.
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 06:06:17 ... from a day ago. Lol. With the evidence right there in case he needed a reminder.
Seb Member	Wed Apr 08 06:53:01 Forwyn: And four of those mentions were alongside a number of other roles, and the remaing four were in a single post to Sam where he had described such people as failures. So yes, wanging on about a nurses median salary is besides the point. You are obsessing over one role cited as part of several to illustrate a structural point about the economy and Sam's overarching political ideology.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 08 07:05:54 "Lol@seb. Mass transportation is for the poor, the stupid, and the diseased, as is high density living." I am not sure how this has been derailed, but obviously alot of people use mass transit in metropolitan areas that are neither of these things. Like people who work in hospitals. Even if you are doing fairly well, to have a car isn't a negligible expense. Most people will not have 1 moth balled just so they can use it when the mass transit system shuts down. I believe that was sebs point. You either have a car or you don't going into this. You don't like living in a large city, fine, neither do I, but the people who do need functioning mass transit. Without functioning mass transit you will have massive congestion. It is ultimately about the surface area you occupy riding around the city. It is also factually incorrect that high density living is for the poor. Real estate outside urban areas is much much cheaper per sqm on average. My 300 sqm, 5 beedroom, double garage, 2000 sqm lawn would have cost 3-4 times more in a high density area. Now it take me 35 minutes to get to work, instead of 7. I do not have a giant grocery store 3 minutes walk, there is no gym 10 minutes walk etc., but on a real clear day, I can see a very faint outline of the milky way :,)
Nekran Member	Wed Apr 08 07:16:34 "obviously alot of people use mass transit in metropolitan areas that are neither of these things." Don't talk nonsense, if you are not exactly like Sammy, you are stupid and/or poor.
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 10:38:55 Desingning... and living in... a city so dense that cars arent practical even as a backup is absolutely retarded. For a large number of reasons. This is just one of them. Also its not just its high density mistakes. New york adds a special breed of entitlement, cluelessness, and helplessness that few cities outside europe can match.
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 10:44:34 "It is also factually incorrect that high density living is for the poor." True. Thats why i included stupid :) "My 300 sqm, 5 beedroom, double garage, 2000 sqm lawn would have cost 3-4 times more in a high density area. Now it take me 35 minutes to get to work, instead of 7. I do not have a giant grocery store 3 minutes walk, there is no gym 10 minutes walk etc., but on a real clear day, I can see a very faint outline of the milky way :,) " Yup, very similar story here. Totally worth it. Turn one of your rooms into a home gym, ideally the lowest room so it stays colder. Home gyms are awesome!
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 08 12:22:55 Well, the cities and mass transit systems work fine. Unless there is a pandemic. Just like the just in time supply chains work fine, reducing waste and creating value. Unless there is a pandemic. They were always fertile grounds for vectors. Basement gym is almost there. Unfortunately corona created a rush for gym equipment as the gyms closed down. I am still lacking a dead lift set up.
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 12:36:09 Ya, hopefully that will only delay you a little longer. Youll love it. Your favorite machine and tv will never be taken... except very rarely by the wife!
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 08 14:55:53 Even financially provided the space a home gym makes sense, especially if you are two. The cost of 2 gym memberships over 3-5 years will buy you all the necessary equipment and then some. Anyway, the point is trade offs, obviously you can not replace everything the city has to offer. But I was never interested in most of those things. Mostly I grew tired of having people above me, besides, below me, not being able to watch a good loud movie in 5.1 in the evening. You realise you are living in the city and not really interested in what the city has to offer and mostly feel trapped and limited. I also wanted to give my son a place where he could roam close to farms and woodland, close to a couple of lakes, a place where he can see stars.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 08 15:03:20 Who the fucks cares about neighbors
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 08 15:10:51 Good mannered people. Also people who do not want to get evicted.
Habebe Member	Wed Apr 08 16:02:27 " The cost of 2 gym memberships over 3-5 years will buy you all the necessary equipment and then some." Idk about Sweden, however I knew some Brits who were amazed at how cheap gyms in the US are. Now for me my workouts are almost entirely dumbbells, which are versatile. Pull up and dip bar and a leg a moveable bench. One of those bars you stand in for dead lifts.
Habebe Member	Wed Apr 08 16:03:50 A leg* disregard.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 08 18:02:50 Pull up bar Kettlebells Dumbbells An olympic barbell A hexbar AKA Trapbar (the one you stand in) Battle ropes TRX A long punching bag for kicking and boxing A training bike All I need. You need to lift, squat, pull and press, compound exercises. The rest is body weights and kettlebells. One of those big pilates balls is very good for doing push ups on or core exercises. But I do admit I am very "addicted" to kettlebells. If I had to pick one it would be kettlebells, it beats the dumbbell in versatility as you can chain several moves into one exercise. The turkish get up is one ass kicking exercise. DO IT!
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 21:13:20 A stairmaster!
Habebe Member	Wed Apr 08 21:20:33 Meh, kettle bells are nice. I personally prefer my old school octagon dumbbells for most everything, I dont like the bench press. For me its just a personal preference. Im stuck in my ways.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 09 03:37:39 Cross country skis. That is all you need.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 09 03:38:09 Ah, and snow of course. Mwahahaha.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Apr 09 03:45:39 You can practically do everything with kettlebells that you can with dumbbells, but not vice versa. I don’t think I have done a bench press in 10 years. Over head and push ups, lots of different variations of push ups. Break your ways, it is good for you! I am not working out for a specific goal, other than overall shape and condition, but I do take alot of cues from how fighters do their strength and conditioning and keep to certain principles. No body building, I train for geurilla warfare. Basic compound movement, asymmetric load, rarely work to failure and alot of moves and exercises that actives the entire chain in the body. I have some core exersises that I stick to and some that I switch out from time to time.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Apr 09 04:31:41 Jergul A very good excersise, if you could only do one exercise either cross country ski or swimming. Activates legs, core, back, even some chest, as well as being killer cardio. We don’t get much snow here anymore, but a wall mounted cross country ski machine or a row. I must admit punching and kicking is what gives me the most satisfaction these days. Good cardio with alot of dynamic and non repetetive explosive movements. Even if you have no idea what you are doing, it feels good to smash stuff.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 09 04:42:36 Nimi The main barrier to cross country skiing is technique. It takes years to master. But it is very proportional once you do (cross rotation does the chest and shoulders nicely). Its all about efficiency of movement. Muscles are used proportionately to their capacity and it involves everything as long as you are old-school. My wife has the new-fangled wrist supports that I dislike. Old-school has me gripping the skipoles, so helps on grip and underarm strength too. I tone up really fast come winters. And I am getting oldish. For non mastery. I have tried showshoes. It trains very few muscles excessively. I hate it, but that is down to crap technique. Cross country is transferrable to downhill. Downhill is cross country for wimps. Anything you can do with bolted down feet, you can do with loose feet too. This I know for a fact as I am quite adept at downhill (moghuls would be the exception, I would not do those on cross country skis. They are a bit finicky at speed).
jergul large member	Thu Apr 09 04:45:56 People who do downhill variants without skilifts have my respect (as long as they are avalanche aware). Now that is one hell of a workout.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Apr 09 05:17:47 I had some of old farts at the work gym instruct me, on the machine. I liked it, it is like the reverse action of a kettlebell swing.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 09 07:35:56 Nimi Do you know how to swim like properely (I would a 24 lesson crawl course fall-19. We have a new swimming pool in town)? Proper cross country is like that. You rotate on an axis to get the full wompf out of the ski poles. It activates every damn muscle in the upper torso. It may not seem like much, but it comes on top of what the legs are doing, so the energy becomes almost pure momentum. Perhaps think of it like throwing a punch if you know how to do that properely. Throwing a proper punch many times an hour with each side of the body :-). I have tried the machine. Its very static and impossible for me to rotate properely on. Or at all really. Good for legs though.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 09 07:36:21 did a crawl course*
jergul large member	Thu Apr 09 07:52:21 I have to say though, we have fenced in the kitten by putting gradually higher barriers between the livingroom and elsewhere. Vaulting across those many, many times a day is activating muscles I did not even know I had :).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Apr 09 09:17:10 Heh. A few years ago I was on a work trip in Hungary. You know Hungary has many pools and hot springs. So the factory mananger took me one early morning for a swim. At lunch we started talking and I told him I had not swam since I was 12. He laughed and said "ah now your swimming technique makes sense, I thought what an interesting way of swimming, body almost vertical in the water". I can swim good enough to not drown...for a while :) but I think I understand what you mean.
Habebe Member	Thu Apr 09 10:41:16 Nim, Its a comfort issue, lunges and squats ( Hungarians are vicious) would be fine with kettle bells, any sort of excersize you would upward with them i don't like the weight distribution.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Apr 09 11:03:22 If you feel uneasy (which is normal I felt like that initially), then that means your need to work in stabilizing or you are raising it too far back. You should push it in front of you, then you wont fall backwards. To handle the distribution is part of the game here. I just take one, raise it over my head and walk around. I get an asymmetrical load that works my core across the saggital plane, from my forearms down to my legs, everything needs to be tight. This is true for most kettlebell moves, your entire body needs to work together. This is why they are great, they reveal weaknesses one needs to work on. As you know, a chain is only as strong the weakest link.
EuropeanPussy Member	Thu Apr 09 12:30:50 http://the...-came-from-europe-studies-show New York coronavirus outbreak originated in Europe, studies show
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 09 13:00:50 And from Britain in particularly. Good thing that Mr. Trump banned travel from China and Europe except just Britain.
sam adams Member	Thu Apr 09 13:29:29 Seb fucking things up again. Not surprising.
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