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The current time is Thu Jun 04 21:35:46 2020

Utopia Talk / Politics / We lie, we cheat, we steal
Wed Apr 08 03:00:59
^ a famous quote by the US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo.

Anyhoo... look at this:

Just days after the CIA fed stories to the corporate media claiming without evidence that China was secretly undercounting its coronavirus deaths, now we are seeing real evidence that it's actually the USA itself that's drastically undercounting its deaths

Wrath of Orion
Wed Apr 08 03:12:53
Almost everyone is undercounting COVID-19 related deaths, tard.
Wed Apr 08 03:14:32
Sure, but why is the CIA so obsessed about it then?
Wed Apr 08 03:16:22
The US is undercounting pretty heavily though. There still isn't anywhere near enough testing outside of New York City.

Wed Apr 08 03:18:14
"The FDNY says it responded to 2,192 cases of deaths at home between March 20th and April 5th, or about 130 a day, an almost 400 percent increase from the same time period last year. (In 2019, there were just 453 cardiac arrest calls where a patient died, according to the FDNY.)"

Wrath of Orion
Wed Apr 08 03:29:29
Well, to start, it's amusing you seem to think you can tell what the CIA is "obsessed" with based on the information they release to the public. OK.

Second, the referenced article (going from the title) appears to be talking about the lack of rigorous postmortem testing for COVID-19 related deaths. That's a problem in most, maybe all, countries right now.

I assume the allegations against China were more along the lines of covering up the number of confirmed COVID-19 deaths?

If so, you're talking about apples to oranges.
large member
Wed Apr 08 04:25:52
China has overreported confirmed Covid-19 deaths by way of using clinical diagnoses istead of tests to confirm infection.

Not because it wanted to, but because it had to if it wanted to control the outbreak.

The thread topic is ultimately about a war of ideas. What if more freedum is not the solution? Who wins then?

So China must be cheating somehow.
The Children
Wed Apr 08 04:32:40
wrath of moron never ceazes 2 surprise the world with his moronic mouth of stupidity.

the sheer blabber of utter bullshit comin out of his mouth makes even a retard feel retarded.

china numbers = accurate
usa numbers = not


only retarded american fakenews basturts wuld claim otherwise.
Wed Apr 08 05:31:40
"What if more freedum is not the solution? Who wins then?"

FREEDUMB IS ALWAYS THE SOLUTION YOU COMMUNIST BASTARD! Corona hates us because of our way of life, we must not give in to its' terror and carry on!

What was that term for when humans attribute agency and human qualities to things and stuff :)

It's not Imperial Japan you fools, it does not care about anything you do or say. The virus will not look at our freedoms and stiff upper lip and think "look at all these human just carrying on like nothing, I have no chance, better to surrender".

If our free and open societies have fatal flaws, then we have to point them out and fix them! And we have to do it without becoming authoritarian. But if we do not and just pretend like nothing, trust me the authoritarians will come to power long before society is allowed to collapse.
large member
Wed Apr 08 06:04:32
Plan A seems to be hiding fatal flaws by saying China is cheating.
Wed Apr 08 08:51:07
China didn't cheat. It just lied.

And the word is anthropomorphize.
Wed Apr 08 09:31:43
Comrade Jergul continues to praise commies and trust there numbers as "If anything they over counted and shared honestly with us"

Wrath is actually on point.
large member
Wed Apr 08 10:51:35
Like I say, the only way to see excess mortality is to wait for data on mortality for 2020 and compare it with 2019.

Everyones numbers are fucked up. China has erred in the opposite direction in addition to not diagnosing corpses and what have you.

Its numbers are not directly comparable with anywhere else and has overreported covid-19 infections and deaths compared to everywhere else.

But of course is underreporting massively. Just less so than everywhere else.

Why you would read my post as a salute to authoritarianism is beyond me.

The game is merely on. Some people are going to be swayed by China's stable genius response (a system that promotes stability ahead of boom and bust cycles we seem to like in the west).

Not me, but thinking the perception of Western moral superiority will last forever without effort...

Well, that is sort of fading a bit against the sound of people drowning in their own fluids, don't you think?

sam adams
Wed Apr 08 11:19:15
"Like I say, the only way to see excess mortality is to wait for data on mortality for 2020 and compare it with 2019."

Ahhh but a decent chunk of that value will be the end of life crowd who die a little earlier than they would have from the disruption and stress of the quarantine. For determining the mortality of the virus itself, that needs to be figured in.
large member
Wed Apr 08 12:52:29
Yepp, its only a measure of excess deaths attributable to the virus both directly and indirectly. And a net measure at that as it subtracts life saved due to the shutdown (there are bound to be some toddlers not hit by trucks outside their home and stuff like that).
sam adams
Wed Apr 08 13:11:23
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