Utopia Talk - Politics - Pope: Pandemic is Nature's Response

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Pope: Pandemic is Nature's Response

Dukhat
Member Wed Apr 08 10:06:23
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/08/europe/pope-francis-coronavirus-nature-response-intl/index.html

Pope says coronavirus pandemic could be nature's response to climate crisis

Rome (CNN)Pope Francis has said the coronavirus pandemic is one of "nature's responses" to humans ignoring the current ecological crisis.

In an email interview published Wednesday in The Tablet and Commonwealth magazines, the pontiff said the outbreak offered an opportunity to slow down the rate of production and consumption and to learn to understand and contemplate the natural world.
"We did not respond to the partial catastrophes. Who now speaks of the fires in Australia, or remembers that 18 months ago a boat could cross the North Pole because the glaciers had all melted? Who speaks now of the floods?" the Pope said.
"I don't know if these are the revenge of nature, but they are certainly nature's responses," he added.

***

Pretty bad ass pope.

sam adams
Member Wed Apr 08 10:30:09
Lol cuckhat became a religious sheep the moment it suited him

kargen
Member Wed Apr 08 17:30:29
So the Catholic Church is going to allow birth control?

Forwyn
Member Wed Apr 08 17:42:10
A heat-sensitive virus is nature's response to warming?

Nature needs a brain scan

Nature is retarded

Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ Wed Apr 08 22:24:05
This is a vast improvement from

"hurricanes are punishment for aggressive assplay"

Habebe
Member Wed Apr 08 22:26:29
Never liked the Catholics. A very rapey religion.

sam adams
Member Wed Apr 08 22:37:26
Better than fucking puritans.

Dukhat
Member Wed Apr 08 22:48:14
Religion sucks dick. Government sucks dick.

But White Evangelicals are worse than Catholics.

And large corporations are worse than government. Fuck all the bailouts and fuck all the irresponsible taxcuts. The fat cats need to pay more if we're going to tacitly insure them with, "too big to fail."

Habebe
Member Wed Apr 08 22:52:34
I grew up in a relatively non religious Lutheran house. Like twice a year at most sort of house.We did have a lot of Saudi friends though, and one who lived with us ( in the guest room)

I was a athiest for a while, finally settled on Bhudism about three years ago.

Non rapey, no jew god, no commandments and the belief that the everything that exists has been created in my mind, so in a sense you are all documents of my imagination here for my amusement.

smart dude
Member Thu Apr 09 00:49:16
"heat-sensitive virus"

moron

CrownRoyal
Member Thu Apr 09 09:27:31
Economic and social impact of this virus is enormous, I dont think the fact that it is easy to kill by soap and not very lethal is relevant

Rugian
Member Thu Apr 09 09:28:55
Benedict seriously needs to step up and seize back the throne already

Forwyn
Member Thu Apr 09 13:49:41
lol @ sd

"However, virus viability was rapidly lost (>3 log10) at higher temperatures and higher relative humidity (e.g., 38°C, and relative humidity of >95%)."

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2011/734690/

Forwyn
Member Thu Apr 09 13:52:07
"b-b-but it's a different strain"

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 16:51:23
"b-b-but it's a different strain"

And that may very well matter - thanks for pointing out the issue with your own post.

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 17:01:33
It's also important to point out that the link you provided is about the response of that virus on surfaces, which is not believed to be the main vector of sars-cov-2 transmission. In addition, the test results were conducted at 28, 33, and 38 degrees C. Only 38 degrees C showed any real affect on the virus, and 33 C is a pretty warm day in most temperate regions.

So yeah...

Forwyn
Member Thu Apr 09 17:13:10
Unless the Chinese engineered a heat-resistant shield for Wuhan Flu, then there's no reason to assume epidemiologists who are saying that high heat and humidity reduce - not eliminate - survivability and infectivity, are incorrect.

Anyway, it was a joke about global warming - if God chose a vector to punish us for environmental change, it'd be an archaebacteria that thrives in warmer temperatures.

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 17:33:09
Early studies are rushed and not very well done, and often focus on surface survivability, not fully aerosolized viral particles in the air (again, still believed to be the main mode of transmission by many).

Just stop - you clearly don't know what you're talking about. It may end up being significantly affect by temperatures in the 25-33 C range and changes in humidity, but it's just as likely right now that it won't.

Forwyn
Member Thu Apr 09 18:29:38
I'll take the rushed hypotheses of MIT researchers over WoO, sorry

“We hypothesize that the lower number of cases in tropical countries might be due to warm humid conditions, under which the spread of the virus might be slower as has been observed for other viruses,”

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3556998

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 19:09:28
The difference is you're taking that as proof and I take it as it's meant, which is some level evidence, but far from conclusive.

As I said, just stop.

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 19:15:20
Ugh, so I actually took a moment to read it (which you obviously didn't)...

US, Europe, and other temperate climates are excluded from their hypothesis because the data shows no correlation with slowing down at those temperature and humidity levels. So what they're proposing is that countries with extreme warmth and humidity levels might be seeing less infectious spread. That doesn't mean (in fact they specifically say the data does not support) any affect on more tepmerate regions for the rest of the world.

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 19:16:55
Just stay away from the scientific literature. You clearly don't have the tools to properly interpret it even when looking at an abstract.

Forwyn
Member Thu Apr 09 19:56:30
Be butthurt all you like. The joke works even if it doesn't show decline until 33 C. It works even if it doesn't show decline until 40 C. Declining in heat at all while people are still rocking out is a pretty retarded sword of God for climate change.

What's your beef, exactly? That the Pope's message isn't retarded because...most of the US doesn't get hot enough to slow down infectivity and viability? lol

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 20:25:43
You replied to sd, I replied to your reply, etc. Get your nose out of the Pope's ass - I never mentioned him.

Forwyn
Member Thu Apr 09 20:45:23
K. I said heat-sensitive. Maybe it's less than others.

Joke still works.

sam adams
Member Thu Apr 09 21:13:05
You would have thought by now we would have an answer to the temperature humidity and uv levels that kill or reduce the lifespan of coronavirus in aerosol form.

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 21:44:05
Each type is different and actually testing that isn't too easy. It's much easier to test on surfaces and hope that translates to aerosolized viral particles.

And when I say aerosolized, keep in mind it's a spectrum of droplet sizes. A truly airborne virus is aersolized not only in coughs and sneezes, but also potentially breathing and talking. The ultra tiny droplets can hang suspended in the air for hours and move around on air currents. Droplets from sneezees and coughs are typically larger and fall out of the air much faster.

So we don't even know for sure if this strain is truly airborne (as described above). Even if it is, it's also possible more viral particles are needed than you would typically get from true airborne transmission.

So you can see I'm adding degrees of freedom to the problem (and can keep adding more), but we don't have a great handle on how humidity and temperature interact with various viruses at various droplet size.

We can't even give confident percentages on how how most viruses (including influenza strains) spread (meaning the % from surface contact vs. % from some for aerosolized droplet).

It's a tough problem and (at least as far as I know), there aren't huge amounts of money being thrown at it. Though that may change going forward, heh.

Wrath of Orion
Member Thu Apr 09 21:45:27
I've also seen conflicting data on some viruses regarding humidity, which muddies the water even further.

sam adams
Member Thu Apr 09 22:38:21
Fair enough, thanks for the explanation.

Ya, i suspect medical research budgets will be going back up. Like meteorology after hurricane sandy. Lots of money flows when nyc gets hit.

show deleted posts

Dukhat Member	Wed Apr 08 10:06:23 https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/08/europe/pope-francis-coronavirus-nature-response-intl/index.html Pope says coronavirus pandemic could be nature's response to climate crisis Rome (CNN)Pope Francis has said the coronavirus pandemic is one of "nature's responses" to humans ignoring the current ecological crisis. In an email interview published Wednesday in The Tablet and Commonwealth magazines, the pontiff said the outbreak offered an opportunity to slow down the rate of production and consumption and to learn to understand and contemplate the natural world. "We did not respond to the partial catastrophes. Who now speaks of the fires in Australia, or remembers that 18 months ago a boat could cross the North Pole because the glaciers had all melted? Who speaks now of the floods?" the Pope said. "I don't know if these are the revenge of nature, but they are certainly nature's responses," he added. *** Pretty bad ass pope.
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 10:30:09 Lol cuckhat became a religious sheep the moment it suited him
kargen Member	Wed Apr 08 17:30:29 So the Catholic Church is going to allow birth control?
Forwyn Member	Wed Apr 08 17:42:10 A heat-sensitive virus is nature's response to warming? Nature needs a brain scan Nature is retarded
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Wed Apr 08 22:24:05 This is a vast improvement from "hurricanes are punishment for aggressive assplay"
Habebe Member	Wed Apr 08 22:26:29 Never liked the Catholics. A very rapey religion.
sam adams Member	Wed Apr 08 22:37:26 Better than fucking puritans.
Dukhat Member	Wed Apr 08 22:48:14 Religion sucks dick. Government sucks dick. But White Evangelicals are worse than Catholics. And large corporations are worse than government. Fuck all the bailouts and fuck all the irresponsible taxcuts. The fat cats need to pay more if we're going to tacitly insure them with, "too big to fail."
Habebe Member	Wed Apr 08 22:52:34 I grew up in a relatively non religious Lutheran house. Like twice a year at most sort of house.We did have a lot of Saudi friends though, and one who lived with us ( in the guest room) I was a athiest for a while, finally settled on Bhudism about three years ago. Non rapey, no jew god, no commandments and the belief that the everything that exists has been created in my mind, so in a sense you are all documents of my imagination here for my amusement.
smart dude Member	Thu Apr 09 00:49:16 "heat-sensitive virus" moron
CrownRoyal Member	Thu Apr 09 09:27:31 Economic and social impact of this virus is enormous, I dont think the fact that it is easy to kill by soap and not very lethal is relevant
Rugian Member	Thu Apr 09 09:28:55 Benedict seriously needs to step up and seize back the throne already
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 09 13:49:41 lol @ sd "However, virus viability was rapidly lost (>3 log10) at higher temperatures and higher relative humidity (e.g., 38°C, and relative humidity of >95%)." http://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2011/734690/
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 09 13:52:07 "b-b-but it's a different strain"
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 16:51:23 "b-b-but it's a different strain" And that may very well matter - thanks for pointing out the issue with your own post.
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 17:01:33 It's also important to point out that the link you provided is about the response of that virus on surfaces, which is not believed to be the main vector of sars-cov-2 transmission. In addition, the test results were conducted at 28, 33, and 38 degrees C. Only 38 degrees C showed any real affect on the virus, and 33 C is a pretty warm day in most temperate regions. So yeah...
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 09 17:13:10 Unless the Chinese engineered a heat-resistant shield for Wuhan Flu, then there's no reason to assume epidemiologists who are saying that high heat and humidity reduce - not eliminate - survivability and infectivity, are incorrect. Anyway, it was a joke about global warming - if God chose a vector to punish us for environmental change, it'd be an archaebacteria that thrives in warmer temperatures.
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 17:33:09 Early studies are rushed and not very well done, and often focus on surface survivability, not fully aerosolized viral particles in the air (again, still believed to be the main mode of transmission by many). Just stop - you clearly don't know what you're talking about. It may end up being significantly affect by temperatures in the 25-33 C range and changes in humidity, but it's just as likely right now that it won't.
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 09 18:29:38 I'll take the rushed hypotheses of MIT researchers over WoO, sorry “We hypothesize that the lower number of cases in tropical countries might be due to warm humid conditions, under which the spread of the virus might be slower as has been observed for other viruses,” http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3556998
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 19:09:28 The difference is you're taking that as proof and I take it as it's meant, which is some level evidence, but far from conclusive. As I said, just stop.
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 19:15:20 Ugh, so I actually took a moment to read it (which you obviously didn't)... US, Europe, and other temperate climates are excluded from their hypothesis because the data shows no correlation with slowing down at those temperature and humidity levels. So what they're proposing is that countries with extreme warmth and humidity levels might be seeing less infectious spread. That doesn't mean (in fact they specifically say the data does not support) any affect on more tepmerate regions for the rest of the world.
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 19:16:55 Just stay away from the scientific literature. You clearly don't have the tools to properly interpret it even when looking at an abstract.
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 09 19:56:30 Be butthurt all you like. The joke works even if it doesn't show decline until 33 C. It works even if it doesn't show decline until 40 C. Declining in heat at all while people are still rocking out is a pretty retarded sword of God for climate change. What's your beef, exactly? That the Pope's message isn't retarded because...most of the US doesn't get hot enough to slow down infectivity and viability? lol
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 20:25:43 You replied to sd, I replied to your reply, etc. Get your nose out of the Pope's ass - I never mentioned him.
Forwyn Member	Thu Apr 09 20:45:23 K. I said heat-sensitive. Maybe it's less than others. Joke still works.
sam adams Member	Thu Apr 09 21:13:05 You would have thought by now we would have an answer to the temperature humidity and uv levels that kill or reduce the lifespan of coronavirus in aerosol form.
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 21:44:05 Each type is different and actually testing that isn't too easy. It's much easier to test on surfaces and hope that translates to aerosolized viral particles. And when I say aerosolized, keep in mind it's a spectrum of droplet sizes. A truly airborne virus is aersolized not only in coughs and sneezes, but also potentially breathing and talking. The ultra tiny droplets can hang suspended in the air for hours and move around on air currents. Droplets from sneezees and coughs are typically larger and fall out of the air much faster. So we don't even know for sure if this strain is truly airborne (as described above). Even if it is, it's also possible more viral particles are needed than you would typically get from true airborne transmission. So you can see I'm adding degrees of freedom to the problem (and can keep adding more), but we don't have a great handle on how humidity and temperature interact with various viruses at various droplet size. We can't even give confident percentages on how how most viruses (including influenza strains) spread (meaning the % from surface contact vs. % from some for aerosolized droplet). It's a tough problem and (at least as far as I know), there aren't huge amounts of money being thrown at it. Though that may change going forward, heh.
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Apr 09 21:45:27 I've also seen conflicting data on some viruses regarding humidity, which muddies the water even further.
sam adams Member	Thu Apr 09 22:38:21 Fair enough, thanks for the explanation. Ya, i suspect medical research budgets will be going back up. Like meteorology after hurricane sandy. Lots of money flows when nyc gets hit.
	show deleted posts

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