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Utopia Talk / Politics / Signs that your the bad guys
Habebe
Member
Mon May 04 17:35:07
The whole discussion over the good guys and the bad guys referencing China and the US while oversimplified got me thinking about signs and red flags.

I think a good sign that China is much more so the bad guy than the US objectively ( as possible) own to look at three territories

1. Hong Kong
2. Taiwan
3. Tibet

All three totally want to not be with China and yet China keeps trying to force them to be under there rule.

Where as in the US generally if anything territories want to be closer affiliated with us such as gaining statehood.

I'm not saying that definitively ends it all, but I would say in general that is a good measure to look at when discussing such attributes.
Pillz
Member
Mon May 04 17:52:32
Libya
Iraq
Syria
kargen
Member
Mon May 04 18:00:11
those are not territories. Those are independent countries that kicked the hornets nest.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 04 18:03:40
Pills, While they may or mayn't (thats a word) hold examples of possible bad behaviour by the US they are not comparing Apple's to apples as we are not turning them into US governed territories. Its notnlike Puerto Rico has been protesting violently for a year or trying to claim independance if anything they would like statehood perhaps.
Rugian
Member
Mon May 04 18:06:29
Habebe

Dont forget Xinjiang.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 04 18:08:23
Or even the EU, so the UK left, amd what happened? A political shitfest but still a relativley peaceful transition, perhaps some minor protests and what not but not nearly what we see with China's disputes over territory and sovereignty. Why? Because in general the EU isn't evil.
kargen
Member
Mon May 04 18:10:47
Hell China made it illegal to be reincarnated as the Dalai Lama. That tells ya all you need to know about who the bad guy is.
zombie jesus
Member
Mon May 04 18:11:36
Wtf man. That was my next...
Habebe
Member
Mon May 04 18:12:58
Rugian, Thats the ouigher Muslim area, right?

I thought about putting that in but its sort of different, I think they would be ok with beingnpart of China as long as they just left them alone like they used to. Now honestly its also currently the worst human rights crisis in China ATM.

What they are doing to them IMO is as bad as the holocaust was to Jews they are trying to exterminate a people albeit through different means.
smart dude
Member
Tue May 05 00:31:25
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
The Children
Member
Tue May 05 01:14:23
syria
cuban sanctions
venezuelan sanctions
guantanomo bay
latinos held as slaves in ICE borders
syrian sanctions
iraq war x 2
iraq sanctions
afghan war
vietnam war
korean war

u wanna go on and on, u dumb faggots.
kargen
Member
Tue May 05 01:20:07
The Children is your list supposed to be making some kind of point?
The Children
Member
Tue May 05 01:22:49
yes, u r the bad guys. by far.

u heathens cover ur own scandals and incompetence by incitin hatred racism and violence and placin blame on others.
BY LIES if necessary.

everything is lied about in ur country.

u can even follow the complete incompetence of ur country. and the next thing u know, fake news and racist hatred is spammed on others.

butbutbut good guyzzzz...
gtfo here


jergul
large member
Tue May 05 01:38:34
"Intelligence shared among Five Eyes nations indicates it is "highly unlikely" that the coronavirus outbreak was spread as a result of an an accident in a laboratory but rather originated in a Chinese market, according to two Western officials who cited an intelligence assessment that appears to contradict claims by US President Donald Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo."

Paramount
Member
Tue May 05 03:32:00
"Signs that your the bad guys"


Venezuela’s Maduro says two Americans captured in failed invasion attempt

CARACAS, Venezuela — President Nicolás Maduro said his government had captured two American “mercenaries” Monday in a murky operation allegedly intended to infiltrate Venezuela, incite rebellion and apprehend its leaders, adding a fresh complication to escalating tensions between Washington and Caracas. The socialist leader said the plan was to kill him.

In a lengthy speech Monday night, Maduro decried an ongoing “terrorist” assault on Venezuela that he said had led him to dispatch 25,000 reservists to the coasts. He displayed images that apparently depicted the two apprehended Americans in a lineup, one of them forced to lower his head by a captor.

http://www...a-9322-a29e75effc93_story.html
Paramount
Member
Tue May 05 03:35:21
If they are terrorists who are invading a sovereign nation illegally with the intent to kill and create chaos in the country, shouldn't they just be executed on the spot?
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 05:41:30
They should be sent to Guatanamo Bay. A place that absolutely belongs to the US and that it should keep because its a symbol of glorious US-Cuban relations.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 07:37:35
Paramount, Your really going to side with the military dictatorship of Venezuela? While the entire civilized world has supported Guaido.
Paramount
Member
Tue May 05 07:45:58
Supporting military dictatorships is something the US does.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 07:50:11
I would say the old saying about the company you keep in this instance says alot.

Paramount/North Korea/China/Hamas and Hezbollah all support Maduro.

While Sweden/US/Taiwan/ western Europe Australia and importantly almost all if not all of South America , its neighbor states support Guaido.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 07:52:32
Jergul, Your actually right in this one. Guantanamo is a bad thing for thr US, my country is not perfect and this is a flight on our record.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 07:53:14
Blight **
Paramount
Member
Tue May 05 08:23:42
Venezula is not a military dictatorship though. Not yet. But maybe it will be if the US manages to put their puppet in control of the country.

Maduro won the election because the opposition chose to not to go and vote.

I mean, it’s a free election. You can chose to vote and you can chose to not vote. But if you chose to not vote and then if the guy you was hoping was gonna win, did not win, then the result is not a ”military dictatorshop”. It is just the result of the free election you chose to not participate in.
Dukhat
Member
Tue May 05 08:33:51
Maybe there are no purely bad or good guys and most people work under complex motives that can often result in good and bad results.

Actually, this is the way most of the world works.

Cuckservatives always think in black and white because they are too fucking stupid and intellectually lazy to try to arrive at the truth.

The answers are already in their head. They seek merely fake news that corroborates their own prejudices.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 09:18:09
habebe
The US was by far Venezuela's most important trading partner until sanctions were introduced.

The "company you keep" metric is not applicable to countries under 3rd party sanction as you are compelling countries to limit their economic interactions to places that don't give a rat's ass about not using US financial instruments.
The Children
Member
Tue May 05 09:18:54
habebe thinks china is like the villain in cartoons with evil world domination plans, when in reality usa is the only imperialist country imposin its will on others.

they even stole respiratory masks shipments intended for other countries.


The Children
Member
Tue May 05 09:24:38
habebe and rugiot and the MURIRCAHHHs views of the world is just crazy.

they think china is like the cartoonish evil villain who always has an evil plan or idea with one goal in mind.

and they the great MURRRIICAAAHHHHS are like the gijoe. gijoe! magical heros,

He'll fight for freedom!
Wherever there's trouble
G.I. Joe is there!

G.I. Joe (A Real American Hero)
G.I. Joe is there!

hahaha these fuckin retards.

ur country doesnt give a ratsass about u, u god damn idiot.

they r openin the country, sell u overprices vaccins that not even proven 2 work (reportedly it cost 10k lol), just so they dunt fall behind china too much.

when the death toll rises, dunt blame china again.
let the world know who opened up the economy, who is sellin u overpriced vaccins and who culdnt contain the virus.

let the world remember all the anti lockdown demonstrations with all the crazies packed together like sardines yellin incoherently at walls.

u wanna bet 1/3rd of these crazies got themselves infected.

let the world know this is MURRRIICCAAAHH!!! where IQ level is 50 or lower.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 09:53:24
Paramount, Well I suppose thats debatable but regardless. Guaido only seeks to be interim president and hold new elections while Maduro seeks to hold power by force.

If the US is wrong for there support so is western Europe, Taiwan. Australia etc. Including Sweden.

Jergul, Such sanctions at most would have people on the fence, they would not force Swedens hand in supporting Guaido as interim president and to hold new fair elections.

Dukhat, Which is why in my opening post admitted that the. Discussion was oversimplified, however the discussion that prompted this was both the left and the right talking about good and bad guys which is why I worded as I did while.admitting it over simplifies. The issue as we live in a grey world.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 10:00:57
So lets look at the two groups of that support each side.

http://en....Venezuelan_presidential_crisis

Guaidó acting presidency Edit
Foreign states Edit
Albania[125][126]
Andorra[127]
Australia[128]
Austria[129][130][131]
Bahamas[132]
Belgium[133][131]
Bolivia[d]
Brazil[132]
Bulgaria[136][137][e]
Canada[132]
Chile[132]
Colombia[132]
Costa Rica[132]
Croatia[143][144][131]
Czech Republic[145][131]
Denmark[146][147][131]
Dominican Republic[132]
Ecuador[132]
El Salvador[f]
Estonia[153][131]
Finland[154][131]
France[146][155][131]
Georgia[156][157]
Germany[158][159][131]
Greece[160]
Guatemala[132]
Haiti[132]
Honduras[132]
Hungary[131][161]
Iceland[162]
Ireland[163]
Israel[164][165]
Jamaica[166]
Japan[167]
Latvia[168][131]
Lithuania[169][131]
Luxembourg[170][131]
Malta[171]
Marshall Islands[172]
Micronesia[173]
Montenegro[174]
Morocco[175]
Netherlands[176][131]
North Macedonia[177]
Panama[132]
Paraguay[132]
Peru[132]
Poland[178][131]
Portugal[179][131]
Romania[180][181]
Slovenia[146][182]
South Korea[183]
Spain[146][131][184]
St. Lucia[166]
Sweden[146][131][185]
Switzerland[186]
Ukraine[187]
United Kingdom[146][131][188]
United States[132]
Non-UN states Edit
Kosovo[189][126][190]
Intergovernmental organizations Edit
European Parliament logo.svg European Parliament[191]
Lima Group[192][g]
PROSUR[193]
Flag of the Organization of American States.svg Organization of American States[194]
Parlamento Andino bandera.jpg Andean Parliament[195

Vs

Maduro presidency Edit
Foreign states Edit
Belarus[219][220]
Cambodia[221]
China[222][223]
Cuba[222]
Dominica[224]
Equatorial Guinea[225]
Iran[222]
Laos[226]
Nicaragua[205]
North Korea[227]
Palestine[i][228]
Russia[222]
Saint Kitts and Nevis[229]
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines[205]
Serbia[230]
South Africa[231][232]
Suriname[224]
Syria[222]
Turkey[222]
Vietnam[233]
Non-UN states Edit
Abkhazia[234]
Sahrawi Republic[235]
South Ossetia[236]
Intergovernmental organizations Edit
Foro de São Paulo logo 20180204.png Foro de São Paulo[237]
Hamas[228]
Hezbollah[238]
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 10:00:58
So lets look at the two groups of that support each side.

http://en....Venezuelan_presidential_crisis

Guaidó acting presidency Edit
Foreign states Edit
Albania[125][126]
Andorra[127]
Australia[128]
Austria[129][130][131]
Bahamas[132]
Belgium[133][131]
Bolivia[d]
Brazil[132]
Bulgaria[136][137][e]
Canada[132]
Chile[132]
Colombia[132]
Costa Rica[132]
Croatia[143][144][131]
Czech Republic[145][131]
Denmark[146][147][131]
Dominican Republic[132]
Ecuador[132]
El Salvador[f]
Estonia[153][131]
Finland[154][131]
France[146][155][131]
Georgia[156][157]
Germany[158][159][131]
Greece[160]
Guatemala[132]
Haiti[132]
Honduras[132]
Hungary[131][161]
Iceland[162]
Ireland[163]
Israel[164][165]
Jamaica[166]
Japan[167]
Latvia[168][131]
Lithuania[169][131]
Luxembourg[170][131]
Malta[171]
Marshall Islands[172]
Micronesia[173]
Montenegro[174]
Morocco[175]
Netherlands[176][131]
North Macedonia[177]
Panama[132]
Paraguay[132]
Peru[132]
Poland[178][131]
Portugal[179][131]
Romania[180][181]
Slovenia[146][182]
South Korea[183]
Spain[146][131][184]
St. Lucia[166]
Sweden[146][131][185]
Switzerland[186]
Ukraine[187]
United Kingdom[146][131][188]
United States[132]
Non-UN states Edit
Kosovo[189][126][190]
Intergovernmental organizations Edit
European Parliament logo.svg European Parliament[191]
Lima Group[192][g]
PROSUR[193]
Flag of the Organization of American States.svg Organization of American States[194]
Parlamento Andino bandera.jpg Andean Parliament[195

Vs

Maduro presidency Edit
Foreign states Edit
Belarus[219][220]
Cambodia[221]
China[222][223]
Cuba[222]
Dominica[224]
Equatorial Guinea[225]
Iran[222]
Laos[226]
Nicaragua[205]
North Korea[227]
Palestine[i][228]
Russia[222]
Saint Kitts and Nevis[229]
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines[205]
Serbia[230]
South Africa[231][232]
Suriname[224]
Syria[222]
Turkey[222]
Vietnam[233]
Non-UN states Edit
Abkhazia[234]
Sahrawi Republic[235]
South Ossetia[236]
Intergovernmental organizations Edit
Foro de São Paulo logo 20180204.png Foro de São Paulo[237]
Hamas[228]
Hezbollah[238]
The Children
Member
Tue May 05 10:06:23
ur point being?
vassals have right to chose?
Dakyron
Member
Tue May 05 10:13:31
Just ask yourself, would you rather be born in China, raised in China, and live in China your whole life? Or would you prefer the United States. Its a no-brainer if you are a muslim or other religious person. If you are a libertarian or other freedom minded person then it is also an easy decision.

Its only a question if you are ethnically Chinese and you enjoy a fascist style of government.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 10:20:07
1. Be reasonable, or we will have to use force.
2. If we can't have it, we will break it.
3. Now look what you made us do.

US sanctions long predate the current presidential crisis.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 10:22:11
Daky
Your president has close to dictatorial powers abroad. How you arrange things domestically is not a clinching argument for interactions with other nation-states.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 10:23:29
Jergul, Your point was that the US sanctions made nations like Sweden for example choose to show support with Guidao, is that accurate?
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 10:30:09
You seem to understand that when framed in terms of federal overreach in regards to State rights.

Any administration can pretty much do whatever it likes abroad. The US Constitution offers little in the way of checks to federal power on that arena. This has become worse under Trump as we see that even a theoretical check like impeachment is completely impractical and even Congress controling policy by way of purse strings has been hollowed out by the administration gaining supreme court approval for it simply redistributing funds to pet projects Congress had not approved.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 10:30:38
My point is that US sanctions created the presidential crisis.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 10:40:21
So how does that effect the company you keep bit?

Maduro is aligned with China, North Korea, hamas and Hezzbollah while Guidao is aligned with western Europe, US and almost all of its neighboring states was my point.

I still say its a valid point to note that he is aligned with groups almost universally agreed to be bad actors with bad credibility.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 10:52:21
So how does breaking countries and putting them under 3rd party sanction effect the company they keep?

It has a negative effect on the company they keep.
Dakyron
Member
Tue May 05 10:53:18
Even assuming jergul is correct, it still greatly depends on who are you. If you are Ukraine, Lithuania, Columbia, Panama, Taiwan... you sure would prefer the US over China. If you are Iran, NK, Venezuela, you prefer China.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 11:02:21
Jergul, yes, but it does not push nations like Sweden, OZ, generally favorably looked upon peace loving nations to support Guidao.

Dakyron, Absolutley, but i would add that those are places often so terrible that people will risk there lives against military force to escape.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 11:03:39
Milton Friedman once said, look to where people vote with thete feet.No one is mass immigrating to break into NK, Iran and Venezuela.
Dakyron
Member
Tue May 05 11:03:55
"Dakyron, Absolutley, but i would add that those are places often so terrible that people will risk there lives against military force to escape. "

Exactly. No one from the US is trying desperately to reach China to start a new life.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 11:05:50
Daky
Turkey is pivoting to Russia for practical reasons. Russia did not suspend arms deals with Turkey even as Turkish and Russians were exchanging live fire in Syria.

Its one of the perversities of our modern era. China does have a few red lines (most relating to national dignity), but in general, China and Russia are extremely reliable trading partners.

A non-aligned basis is likely the most practical for the decades to come. Executive orders are too easy to sign with the flourish of felt pens.

And thats all it takes to turn the defender of global trade into a tariff and sanction wielding protectorate monster trying to force other nations to bend to its will.

Better then to keep all options on the table in these unruly times.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 11:06:05
Dont bother Daky. Jergul couldnt give two shits about the billions of oppressed peoples living under those regimes, and he waves away Russian and Chinese bad behavior abroad by claiming it acts as a useful "counterbalance" to the US. As if the US has ever given two shits.

If you support liberal democracy, basic freedoms for individuals, and keeping bad state actors in check, you dont keep finding yourself on the side of the likes of North Korea, Iran, Syria and Cuba. It's that simple.
The Children
Member
Tue May 05 11:06:42
there r no oppressed peoples livin in china.

jergul
large member
Tue May 05 11:08:26
Internal domestic arrangements are irrelevant to how nation-states interact.

The argument that Norway should always support the US ahead of say Yemen because people prefer to live in the US instead of Yemen is invalid.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 11:10:53
"China does have a few red lines (most relating to national dignity), but in general, China and Russia are extremely reliable trading partners."

Rofl. This is literally just another way of saying "we can never say anything bad about China or oppose them in any way whatsoever or else they'll have an autistic meltdown and completely cut us off," la the NBA treatment.

I guess if you think that vassalage is an acceptable price to pay to be Beijing's buddy then that's fine.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 11:11:00
Ruggy
Counterbalances are useful specifically because they check dictatorial powers any US president can apply at his discression at any foreign nation.

There simply are no checks and balances beyond the ability to shrug and walk away.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 11:12:15
jergul
large member Tue May 05 11:08:26
"Internal domestic arrangements are irrelevant to how nation-states interact.

The argument that Norway should always support the US ahead of say Yemen because"

Wrong. How a country treats it's own citizens is very relevant for determining how it interacts with yours.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 11:12:34
It is very telling that you cannot view foreign relations outside of a a client-patron relationship.

Its not a good time to be a client state of either the US or China.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 11:13:09
Ruggy
Relevant until Trump wields his felt pen. Then anything can happen.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 11:15:40
Ruggy
Just apply your perspectives on State rights to every single nation-state on the planet to more fully grasp why federal overreach in the form of executive orders makes the US a very unpleasant bedpartner.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 11:18:55
Jergul

Terrible comparison. All states have the right to govern as they best see fit. But in many cases that results in a need for the global liberal democratic to cut them off.

The NBA lost hundreds of millions of dollars last year because a random GM sent out a single tweet offering generic support for Hong Kong. China doesnt respect our free speech any more than it respects the free speech of it's own citizens. There is a lesson in that and we should heed it.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 11:25:04
Tc, Why havn't you moved to China yet? Why do you choose to live in the UK?

Jergul, It doesnt mean that Norway should always side with the US for everything, as nations we will have disagreements. The US is not infalibale, neither is Norway.

But how a regime treats its people SHOULD have some sway with how other nations interact with them.

The US is friendly with Saudia Arabia which lets face it does not have the world's best track record of human rights. For years we did so out of necessity of oil, but it was more than that admittedmy and it is an imperfect situation however they have been making progress and thete is a degree of relative context of tye region.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 11:26:35
Ruggy
Its a great comparison. You have checks and balances that foreign states do not have. And still you whine about Federal overreach (as least when a democratic president is in charge).

If you want the role, then you are going to have to find a way to reign in your executive office. We have learned that counting on presidential restraint is a fundamentally insecure basis.

And yepp, we know where Chinese red lines are. They don't like stuff that insults their dignity or their geographical integrity.

There is a lesson to be learned from all this. Do not depend too much on China or the USA.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 11:27:51
Also as to a sort of side issue, why would you want China as counterweight to US power and not the EU?
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 11:27:52
Also as to a sort of side issue, why would you want China as counterweight to US power and not the EU?
The Children
Member
Tue May 05 11:29:34
no.

we want multi polar world.

us should just be satisfied as 4th or 5th place.

ur warmongerers and unreliable flipflop haters.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 11:30:23
The children, What is holding you back from moving to China?
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 11:34:42
And so we return to the topic of who is actually affected by this federal "overreach." North Korea, Iran, Syria, Venezuela and Cuba. All of whom not only collectively oppress billions of their own citizens, but play a destabilizing role via a vis their neighbors abroad.

If that's the side you want to be on, you may as well just come out and say you're not a fan of liberal democracy. Fuck the governments of all of those countries.
The Children
Member
Tue May 05 11:35:40
why u so crazy senile habbe. why do u have 2 be imperalists warmongering colonialists.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 11:43:29
"And yepp, we know where Chinese red lines are. They don't like stuff that insults their dignity or their geographical integrity."

The fact that you think this is an acceptable cost of doing business is eye-opening.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 12:00:11
Yes I'm senile at the ripenold age of 35 ( well tomorrow I'll be 35)

Even TC doesnt want to actually move to China...that should be telling.

You know who does? North Koreans and West Africans. That makes sense China is a less horrible place to live than both of those places.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 12:23:59
Ruggy
Every country is impacted by federal overeach because of 3rd party sanctions. You are telling us what we can and cannot do because you can, do and will leverage the crap out of your position as a global currency issuer.

I do not actually mind any unilateral sanctions you might employ. Particularly not if enacted by Congress.

Paramount
Member
Tue May 05 12:30:07
Rugian, ” you may as well just come out and say you're not a fan of liberal democracy. ”


Since when are you conservatives a fan of liberal democracy?

You don’t want women to vote. You want to kill the gays and the feminists. You have more love for Sharia states such as Saudi Barbaria, than liberal democracies.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 12:37:38
Boo hoo, we made it hard to buy oil from the protestor-massacring mullahs. That totally justifies allowing totalitarian regimes to export their God-awful systems of control abroad.

Is that the crux of your argument?
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 13:05:36
Ruggy
The crux of my argument is that your president is in practical terms a dictator that can rule by decree in dealings with foreign countries abroad.

The main impact we see is through 3rd party sanctions that dictates who we can and cannot trade with.

It is better by far to create a global environment where no single nation has the power to bend all others to its will in that manner.

Because freedom.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 13:07:44
I dont know how many times I can point out that the "clash of civilizations" component makes Chinese power much more destructive than American power. If you wont listen, you wont listen.
jergul
large member
Tue May 05 13:13:31
Ruggy
Both have the potential to be extremely destructive. The best way to curb destructive potential is to break clear dependencies.

This is particularly important as China emerges as a major consumer economy. No point in replacing reliance on US consumer spending with reliance on Chinese.

But this goes more to developing alternative consumer markets than it does to sabotaging trade development with China or the USA.
Rugian
Member
Tue May 05 13:16:47
You are trying to shovel money to the Iranians and you accuse us of being destructive? Amazing.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 05 17:16:07
Paramount, "Since when are you conservatives a fan of liberal democracy?

You don’t want women to vote. You want to kill the gays and the feminists. You have more love for Sharia states such as Saudi Barbaria, than liberal democracies."

What?! Where do you get your information?
Paramount
Member
Thu May 07 06:10:34
Earlier this week, enemies of freedom committed an act of war against Venezuela.

Venezuelans have many questions tonight. Venezuelans are asking, "Who attacked our country?'"

The evidence we have gathered all points to a collection of loosely affiliated terrorists known as USians. They are some of the murderers who invaded Iraq illegally and who is responsible for many attacks in South America.

USA is to terror what the Mafia is to crime. Its goal is making money and remaking the world and imposing its beliefs on people everywhere.

Venezuelans are asking "Why do they hate us?''

They hate what they see right here: a democratically elected government. They hate our freedom and our socialism.

They want to overthrow existing governments in many countries.

We have seen their kind before. They're the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their visions, by abandoning every value except the will to power, they follow in the path of fascism and totalitarianism.



http://edi...a-us-detainees-intl/index.html

US citizen detained in Venezuela speaks on state TV

(CNN)One of two American veterans detained earlier this week by Venezuelan security forces has appeared on state television in the South American nation.

In a heavily edited video, Luke Denman is shown looking directly at the camera and describing his alleged role in what the Maduro government claims is a "failed coup" attempt organized by US security firm Silvercorp. Silvercorp has not responded to requests for comment.

While it is not clear whether Denman was speaking under duress, Venezuela's government described the edited clip as a "confession".

Denman was detained on Monday alongside fellow US military veteran Aaron Berry. Both men are former US special forces soldiers.

In the video Denman is questioned by a man off camera, who asks the former soldier what he was doing in Venezuela. There was no indication that Denman had legal representation present during the interrogation.

The Venezuelan government has broadcast edited video "confessions" in the past, a practice that has been criticized by human rights groups.

Denman and Berry will be tried in a civilian court for their part in the alleged operation, the country's president Nicolas Maduro said earlier on Wednesday..

The Venezuelan president has accused Silvercorp CEO Jordan Goudreau of masterminding the incident.

Answering a question from CNN during a virtual press conference in Caracas on Wednesday, Maduro said the two men would receive a fair trial and that Venezuela's Attorney General office was now in charge of the detainees.

It is unclear where they are being held. Both Maduro and the Attorney General's office in Caracas has yet to provide information about the men's whereabouts.

Denman's mother, Kay, previously told CNN that she is concerned for her son.

"We are trying to get information and looking for what we need to do here on our side," she told CNN. "No one has contacted myself or my husband."

The Venezuelan leader said his Foreign Ministry would denounce the alleged invasion at the International Criminal Court in the Hague and request Goudreau's extradition from the US.

Footage posted on Maduro's official Twitter account on Monday claims to show the alleged incident. In the clip, several unidentifiable men can be seen in a boat with their hands in the air and a helicopter overhead.

The US State Department had earlier said Maduro's claim was part of a major disinformation campaign.

During Wednesday's press conference, Maduro repeated accusations against US president Donald Trump, Colombian president Ivan Duque and Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido of being complicit in the alleged coup. All have denied any involvement.
Paramount
Member
Sat May 09 01:37:37
”Signs that you are the bad guy”

The US blocks a global ceasefire:

The United States on Friday stunned other members of the UN Security Council by preventing a vote on a resolution for a ceasefire in various conflicts around the world to help troubled nations better fight the coronavirus pandemic, diplomats said.

Washington's reversal came a day after it agreed to the text, negotiators said under cover of anonymity.

"The United States cannot support the current draft," the country's delegation declared, without further detail, to the 14 other Security Council members, after nearly two months of difficult negotiation over the text.

The latest stalemate continues to leave the global peace and security body largely mute in the face of a once-in-a-century pandemic that has killed more tha 270,000 people and raised further fears for the world's most vulnerable.

The latest version of the text -- obtained by AFP -- called for a cessation of hostilities in conflict zones and a 90-day "humanitarian pause" to allow governments to better address the pandemic among those most suffering.

It called on all nations to "enhance coordination" in the virus fight and highlighted the "urgent need to support all countries, as well as all relevant entities of the United Nations system, including specialized health agencies, and other relevant international, regional, and sub-regional organization."

This wording, which implicitly refers to the WHO without explicitly mentioning it, was the compromise obtained from US and China on Thursday night, according to diplomats.

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has been pushing for a cessation of hostilities around the world since March 23, urging all sides in conflict to lay down arms and allow war-torn nations to combat the coronavirus.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat May 09 03:55:27
This is now a competition over who is the worst guy, a race to not hit the bottom. Ambitious.
Habebe
Member
Sat May 09 14:20:53
So how would this global ceasefire work? The un says " hry guys, chill out" and they stop but because of the US they cany stop fighting each other?
jergul
large member
Sat May 09 15:00:39
Habebe
That would be the sum of it. People don't like fighting if the conscequences of getting hurt is catching the plague in some overcrowded camp or another.

Historically, you can either stop fighting to avoid the plague, or catch the plague and then stop fighting.

Its been like this forever.
jergul
large member
Sat May 09 15:02:07
You do not need much leverage beyond various direct and indirect sponsors telling you not to fight right now.
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