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Utopia Talk / Politics / Crackdown in Hong Kong
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 08:05:49
MON MAY 11, 2020 / 6:18 AM EDT
Hong Kong police arrest more than 200 as pro-democracy protests return

http://www...-protests-return-idUSKBN22N0QK

I realize that half of this board probably thinks "yOu HaVe No RiGhT tO pRoTeSt DuRiNg A pAnDeMiC" but some of us are still bothered by this sort of news.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 08:44:20
"A 22-year-old man was found to have materials believed to be intended for making petrol bombs, police said."


Rugian's regime change bloodthirst is acting up again. Just imagine it is syria, not hong kong, and calm down.
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 08:46:38
^confirmed for siding against protestors
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 08:48:31
what are you some bleeding heart retard? Didn't all the bloody interventionism by the US teach you anything?
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 09:13:47
^thinks that you cant have an opinion on affairs abroad unless you're a nation-building neocon

Go away, Bushite.
Paramount
Member
Mon May 11 09:21:00
Haven’t we gone over this already and showed how the police in the US and elsewhere (France, Chile etc) crackdown harder on protesters than the police in Kong Kong? Do we really need to post all the links again?

Also, in most if not all countries you need a permition to hold a demonstration/protest. If you don’t have permition then the police can arrest you if you refuse to disperse/leave the area. In the US the police might even shoot you. Especially if your skin is brown.
Paramount
Member
Mon May 11 09:26:04
The News: Police crackdown on protesters

Rugian: Some of us are still bothered by this sort of news

Me: Didn’t know you were a Social Justice Warrior
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 09:26:23
"thinks that you cant have an opinion on affairs abroad unless you're a nation-building neocon"

your 'opinion' is a call for regime change, after all the failures of american imperialism, yeah, I feel like I have to try and straigten your ass up
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 09:30:07
Who do you think should win the November elections in the US again? Careful, any answer other than Trump constitutes your Canuckistani ass calling for regime change. Straighten your own ass out first, my little untermensch
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 09:32:01
Paramount

Is your European ass so desperate to appease China that you are willing to throw millions of Hong Kongers under the bus?

You and the EU kowtowing to Beijing is beyond pathetic.
Paramount
Member
Mon May 11 09:32:14
* permition = permission
Paramount
Member
Mon May 11 09:34:59
I want Hong Kong to remain Chinese and not to become a outpost/colony of the US Empire.
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 09:35:27
The News: China violates One Country Two Systems agreement, cracks down on Hong Kongers seeking to preserve basic human rights

Paramount: I cant care less

The News: EU does anything to try and stop migrants from raping European women

Paramount: HURR DURR HOW DARE THEY REFUGEES DESEVE TO BE TREATED BETTER HURR DURR
Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon May 11 09:37:32
Rugian must be drunk this morning.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 09:39:16

" Careful, any answer other than Trump constitutes your Canuckistani ass calling for regime change"

do elaborate, I am team donald, but shouldnt the election be cancelled altogether, to avoid the regime change?

hood
Member
Mon May 11 09:40:12
"I want Hong Kong to remain Chinese and not to become a outpost/colony of the US Empire."

Not to jump to a side here, but this is exceptionally retarded. Hong Kong was a British colony and its successes removed from mainland China are largely a result of that. US interests are (or, were; these days, its a crapshoot) more moral in nature than imperialist.
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 09:44:11
Oh, I'm sure Xinhua or the People's Daily have been spreading propaganda about how the US wants to turn Hong Kong into an imperial colony. Youd have to be completely braindead to believe such a line, so of course Paramount is totally on board with it.
Paramount
Member
Mon May 11 09:51:23
Hood, yeah I knew it was a British colony. I just want HK to not be another state of the USA.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 09:55:31
Rugian: elections with incumbent defeated = regime change

Rugian: I want elections to defeat incumbents.

Rugian: I am against regime change
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 10:04:03
Crownroyal: If HK and Chinese incumbents are to be defeated, it should be through elections

China: lol we don't have elections

Crownroyal: lol sucks for HK then
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 10:39:47
I am full of sympathies for all. Once you explain how it is in US interest to promote democracy abroad, you can likely count on my support. I will defend you in these kinds of threads
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 11:14:16
Why the fuck does it need to be in US interests in order to give support for it? Do you think I'm an agent of the US government or something?
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 12:14:23
"Why the fuck does it need to be in US interests in order to give support for it?"

To make america great again, duh. But why else would you give support to democracy abroad?
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 12:23:57
Your premise is inane and idiotic. But if we're going to go that route, I can provide plenty of examples of how Chinese state authoritarian represents a threat to US values at home.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 12:32:11
Please do. I already asked you to elaborate. First you need to actually decide if Chinese state authoritarian represents a threat to US values at home, or you support democracy abroad even if it is not in US interest. But in either case, provide 'plenty of examples'
Rugian
Member
Mon May 11 13:54:36
Sure thing. Find me someone who actually wants to debate this point in good faith and I'll be happy to provide them with whatever they reauest.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 11 14:51:32
We do not have to debate anything, if you are not in the mood. I am helping you, you seem all over the place, suddenly concerned with human rights for no good reason, advocating for regime change for no good reason and just shitting on the US interests for no good reason. Now, the Rugian I know is not an swj, he is not concerned with blanket human rights all of a sudden, so you worry me a little
The Children
Member
Tue May 12 04:02:38
lets face it, these sewerrats find any excuse to riot.

so fuck m.

half of them also stopped rioting last december since China cut off foreign finance flow.

two guesses how and who were behind these sewerrats.

fuck these racetraitors.
Dukhat
Member
Tue May 12 04:13:20
The defeated the pandemic so it's ok to protest again.

It's almost as if context and nuance matters.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 12 07:01:41
Paramount, HK will not become a US territory or even a pseudo one. The people of HK do not want to become Chinese(PRC/CCP) they want to be something like Taiwan it seems.China has been crossing the line trying to turn HK into a Chinese city. When the UK let China have HK back in 1997 they did so on the grounds that HK have its freedoms kept intact for atleast 50 years and more Importantly THIS IS WHAT THW HONGKONGERS WANT.

Is ypur hatred of the US so deep that you would rather see a city forcws into gdp rule/slavery?
Habebe
Member
Tue May 12 07:02:01
Forced into CCP rule*
Dakyron
Member
Tue May 12 12:36:52
Britain should reoccupy HK and claim China has reneged on the agreement.

China's tantrum at that would be epic.
The Children
Member
Tue May 12 12:51:13
britain should also retake the new world as claim it as its territory. it was only stolen from it by yanks who kept the lands safe for the brits who in turn are just keepin it safe for the native americans.

as soon as the natives can built a new country, britain would surely give the lands back.

yanks tantrum would be incredible.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 12 12:52:40
Dakyron, I bet the people HK would like that, or ayleast to be in the Commonwealth group.
Habebe
Member
Tue May 12 12:54:13
Tc, The thing is there is no massive outcry by the people for that. Big difference.
Rugian
Member
Sat May 16 15:59:08
Reminder: faced with an opportunity to join in the condemnation of repression in Hong Kong, CR instead chose to side with the leaders of the PRC by offering worthless red herrings and distractions from the debate.

He made his decision, which is fine. He can now live with it.

The Communist Party is a disgusting organization. And for all of the NYT propaganda that CR reads, the rest of the civilized world recognizes their insidious threat to us. Fuck China.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 24 07:47:00
A woman with a sign that reads: ”National security law might kill us”

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52786734

Hong Kong is like the only one who does not have a national security law. It is actually quite remarkable that there is no national security law in Hong Kong.
Rugian
Member
Sun May 24 07:57:56
"Hong Kong is like the only one who does not have a national security law. It is actually quite remarkable that there is no national security law in Hong Kong."

I'm not exsctly sure how many fallacies you just committed here, but boy is this a doozy.

-Falsely equating lack of something with need of something (HK has no real need for this law for legitimate security purposes)

-Falsely equating lack of something with want of something (the HK people clearly dont want this)

-Falsely implying that all national security systems are more or less equal (when in reality most people would he willing to live under a Western national security regime but not a Chinese one)

Paramount, why are you constantly going to bat for one of the most garbage countries on the planet?
The Children
Member
Sun May 24 08:04:30
first of all, like all others have commented all over da internet already,

a shitload of countries have these same laws. includin good ol usa. patriot act is the same law x 100 steroid doses.

second of all, that woman is a fkin retard. there aint no law killin her. hk is still going to be a GREAT place to live in assumin the sitation returns back to normal aka pre 2019 riots.

otherwise, the city is dead.

she wuld still enjoy her freedoms and shit.
but now she will get charged if she collaberates with white bitches like u rugiot who intend to do spylike thingies.

but thats no different anywhere else in the world, now is it.

The Children
Member
Sun May 24 08:06:30
"c, The thing is there is no massive outcry by the people for that. Big difference."

>> yea there wuldnt.

there wuld just be outright refusal to hand back the lands to the natives.

talk is cheap, bitch. go on and give everything back to the native americans then if ur so great.

yea i thought so...

Paramount
Member
Sun May 24 08:06:52
”Falsely equating lack of something with need of something (HK has no real need for this law for legitimate security purposes) ”

It is not up to you to determine if there is a need for a National Security Law or not.

One can say the same of the US. The US does not need a national security law, nor a Patriot Act. The Americans are also very angry that the government is spying on them and restricting their rights.
Rugian
Member
Sun May 24 08:08:48
"she wuld still enjoy her freedoms and shit."

He says, in response to an article about police cracking down on protestors.
Rugian
Member
Sun May 24 08:11:13
"It is not up to you to determine if there is a need for a National Security Law or not."

Yeah, I'm done responding to you here. "You cant opine on things you dont have control over" is one of the shittiest arguments ever.

See you around, aj4a.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 24 08:11:14
”There is no need for a national security law”

lol, that has got to be one of the dumbest things you have ever said.
Habebe
Member
Sun May 24 08:12:35
And a new wave of protests.

Also the last British governor of HK is making the rounds saying China betrayed HK in there agreement when the UK gifted them.HK
jergul
large member
Sun May 24 08:49:03
What is the problem exactly? The measure is constitutional and China is a Republic, not a democracy.

You guys should recognize the defence. Its the one you use for the US all the time.
Habebe
Member
Sun May 24 09:00:16
Jergul, The issue is that Honkongers want their autonomy and were legally granted it for atleast another 27 years.
jergul
large member
Sun May 24 09:17:06
habebe
They were granted "basic law". Which amounts to their Constitution. The Chinese changes are in keeping with that Constitution.

Constitutional (check)
Republic, not democracy (check)

What are you complaining about exactly?
Habebe
Member
Sun May 24 09:35:36
The same issue that Chris Patten is.
Rugian
Member
Sun May 24 10:35:29
Another asinine response. What is it about the HK issue that causes autocracy lovers to completely lose their ability to make unretarded arguments? Is it because you have no actual leg to stand on here?

Being a republic is not a license to engage in unlimited tyranny against the citizenry. The mental gymnastics required to even make that argument are astounding.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun May 24 11:09:15
I don't know, Rugian's soaring rhetoric almost convinces me, fuck these tyrants. Now do syria, or egypt, so nobody can blame you for being against tyranny only when it suits you
jergul
large member
Sun May 24 11:25:47
Ruggy
It is your unappologetic attitude to many things I dislike that has me curious as to why you want me to dislike this particular thing, but not others.

We can review it again in November if it turns out that Trump wins the election without winning the popular vote.

You can explain to me how that is how your constitution is set up and how the US is a republic and not a democracy.

I am sure it will make better sense to me then.
The Children
Member
Sun May 24 12:09:53
lmao these fuckin idiots thinks autonomy (the ability to govern basic and daily shit) equals state subversion?

no no no rugiot. HK will remain autonomous for at least 27 years.

autonomy aint gonna end. whats gonna end is american influence. we allowed u have ur spy hub there. we allowed u in for food and shit. we gave u hospitality.

no no no, u abused it. u made fun of us. u humiliated us. took our hospitality for granted.

so, bye bye.

Habebe
Member
Sun May 24 12:42:17
Tc, By we you mean the UK?
Habebe
Member
Sun May 24 15:47:05
You know whats funny? The US is actually legally obligated to sanction China over this HK stunt.
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 06:58:03
Habebe
Thats like saying Germany was legally obligated to invade Poland.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 07:22:59
Jergul, Trump and Pelosi pushed a bill last year.

The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019 (HKHRDA)[1] (S. 1838; Pub.L. 116–76) is a United States federal law that requires the U.S. government to impose sanctions against China and Hong Kong officials responsible for human rights abuses in Hong Kong, and requires the United States Department of State and other agencies to conduct an annual review to determine whether changes in Hong Kong's political status (its relationship with mainland China) justify changing the unique, favorable trade relations between the U.S. and Hong Kong.[2][3][4][5] The passage of the bill was supported by pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong,[2] and in 2019 received near-unanimous support in Congress.[6]

http://en....Human_Rights_and_Democracy_Act
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 07:59:14
Habebe
I know. Hitler was legally obligated to invade Poland as soon as he signed the exectutive order (authorised under the emergency powers act) to invade poland.

Nothing anyone could do. The invasion was a legal obligation.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 08:37:09
Well you know. Ancy Pelosi, Trump, Hitler they are all the same right?

So the US take a non violent stand in defense of human rights and democratic/ Republican values and they are called Hitler.

But if we didn't, we would.be called selfish isolationist.

Tbh, I think the UK should be taking more of a stand considering the history.
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 09:34:53
Habebe
The US makes a law, then says the US is obliged to follow a law it made.

Well sure. But anyone can make laws they are obliged for follow.

For example China. It is making a law that it will be obliged to follow in Hong Kong.

So what is your problem exactly?

jergul
large member
Mon May 25 09:46:42
http://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=GDPNOW

You better hurry if you want to smite China with the full force of your mighty service sector.

Or too long, did not read. Covid-19.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 09:54:57
Jergul, well, duh. Thats sort of how it works. How many nations follow laws that they did not enact?

Basically it started with HK receiving preferred treatment because of its greater amount of freedom.

My " problem" was that you then compared the US to Hitler for applying non violent actions in defense of dem/rep values.

But when the US " doesn't take leadership" you deem them isolationist.
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 10:06:40
"Obligated" infers some form of international thing. Like how we were obligated to help out in Afghanistan because you invoked a multilateral treaty.

That you have a law that will save Trump from having to flourish his felt pen and sign an executive order makes no difference beyond the felt ink it saves.
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 10:09:11
You are not taking leadership. You are doing stuff to try and re-elect Trump.

The law itself is mostly the conscequence of a trade war that is seeing 1 country, two systems economic divergence.

There is no way in hell China is going to let HKs economy outpace its national growth.

Thankfully, the US has a law on the books that will force it to slap down Hong Kongs economy.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 10:19:31
"You are not taking leadership. You are doing stuff to try and re-elect Trump"

You realize Nancy Pelosi was ome of the biggest proponets of this bill, right?
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 10:47:22
Habebe
You do know that Pelosi is one of the greatest political strategists the US has ever seen?

She has been undermining Trump's message that he is at war with someone or something and the Democrats are surrender monkeys before Trump even began to be at war with someone or something.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon May 25 12:04:46
US could offer green card to every HK resident, to save them from tyranny. If things get super bad, I mean.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 12:23:12
Actually, I wouldn't mind increasing HK immigrants by making immigration easier.
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 12:52:12
You could like double the current 4000 a year to like...8000 per year!
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon May 25 12:56:00
http://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1264725177868288000
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon May 25 13:19:50
http://twitter.com/F3Ptu/status/1264481781505556480
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon May 25 13:20:22
http://twitter.com/timdayipper/status/1264487148608057344
jergul
large member
Mon May 25 13:31:05
Habebe
See anything there worthy of arrests? Or would that be against freedom?
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 13:56:20
" those who need more evidence: this is how #HongKong rioters terrorize police. HK is softest police I ever saw anywhere. Rioters beat, humiliate. Then twist events. Lie, lie, lie! Western media fully complicit. All of us who work, document Hong Kong have images like these!"


Hahahaha

Oh those poor armed storm troopers being attacked by those horrible youths.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 13:56:20
" those who need more evidence: this is how #HongKong rioters terrorize police. HK is softest police I ever saw anywhere. Rioters beat, humiliate. Then twist events. Lie, lie, lie! Western media fully complicit. All of us who work, document Hong Kong have images like these!"


Hahahaha

Oh those poor armed storm troopers being attacked by those horrible youths.
Habebe
Member
Mon May 25 13:57:07
The guy sounds like tc
Habebe
Member
Tue May 26 10:28:18
" those who need more evidence: this is how #Warsaw Ghetto. rioters terrorize Nazi soldiers. Warsaw is softest SS I ever saw anywhere. Rioters beat, humiliate. Then twist events. Lie, lie, lie! Jewish media fully complicit. All of us who work, document Warsaw have images like these!"
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