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Utopia Talk / Politics / Norwegian Generosity
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 11:35:52
1% of gdp in foreign aid every year on the State budget.

2% of the covid-19 stimulous packages is foreign aid in various forms.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 11:42:24
Well being so rich off of oil I would hope so.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 11:48:38
How is Texas on foreign aid?
smart dude
Member
Thu May 14 12:02:47
Looks like jergul wants his dick sucked.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 12:12:19
Jergul, I dont know. I do know that the US is one of the most charitable nations in the world. Around 2% GDP.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 12:13:18
Smart dude, But he is afraid of women, so you know what that means.
Average Ameriacn
Member
Thu May 14 12:14:08
That's the socialist way: rob the people with high taxes then give some back with aid.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 12:20:06
habebe
If only we had higher deductables, then we too could donate to the now defunct Trump University and perhaps even surpass that 2% number you pulled out of some orfice or another.



Rugian
Member
Thu May 14 12:25:09
http://giv...ex-year-for-charitable-giving/

I suck at math. What's $427 billion divided by $21 trillion again?

Habebe may not always be correct on things, but I feel pretty confident that he doesnt just make stuff up on the spot to support his argument. Which is more than I can say for others.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 12:26:20
How much do we give? Total giving to charitable organizations was $410.02 billion in 2017 (2.1% of GDP). This is an increase of 5.2% in current dollars and 3.0% in inflation-adjusted dollars from 2016.

http://www...x.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=42
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 12:40:58
Ruggy
Total tax deductions claimed was 410 billion dollars.

Remind me again what qualifies as charitable organizations.

Or perhaps just remind me how much the trump family was recently ordered to return after wrongfully withdrawing charitable donations it had made to trust funds it controls.

A broken tax system is not a badge of honour.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 12:41:44
2% of GDP is actually well documented ( give or take) and has been for a long time.

"In fact, giving as a share of GDP has rarely strayed far from 2 percent over the past four decades"


http://www...-Stubborn-2-Giving-Rate/154691
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 12:41:45
2% of GDP is actually well documented ( give or take) and has been for a long time.

"In fact, giving as a share of GDP has rarely strayed far from 2 percent over the past four decades"


http://www...-Stubborn-2-Giving-Rate/154691
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 12:45:40
Still just a testament to a fucking broken tax code habebe.

Transferring wealth to non-profits is a well-known ploy.

Perhaps find a proper number like actual charitable organization funding?
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 13:02:59
Ok, so what % of charity is " capitalist pig dog ploy"?
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 13:37:43
Lets take a different tack since we were talking about international charity anyway. So we can discount the money Americans are giving to each other.

You agree that donations to international charities is 27 billion?

I will accept that you add that to whatever non-military aid your government provides.

You might also want to add remittances. I will accept that too.

The goalpost is 1% of gdp to match norway's State contribution to international non-military aid and development.

We also do remittances and charitable donations, but lets see if you can break the 1% threshold first.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 13:56:36
US international orgs 27 billion
US economic assistance 35 billion
US remittances 150 billion

223 billion. Or more than 1.1% of Gdp

Remittances 0.5%
State budget 1%
International orgs 0.75%

For 2.25% of gdp or twice that of the US

*Mic drop*
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 13:56:38
So it has to be foriegn aid non military.... Is that because it fits.your narrative better?
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 14:01:36
Ah jergulometry.....
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 14:03:36
Its because Congress drew that distinction back in 1963 and informed people to this day think it an important distinction to make.

Why? You feel the need to make Russia a major aid provider by counting military stuff transferred?
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 14:05:53
You are being unfair incidentally. I gave you remittances. That dwarfs all other forms of international charity.

If I wanted to massage the narrative, I would have discounted that.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 14:10:40
All you did was make specific manipulations of stats to fit your narrative.


That would be like me doing this.

http://en....untries_by_charitable_donation

% of GDP donated to non profit charitable orginizations.

Norway 0.11
US 1.44

Ahhh, the US is almost 1400% more charitable... Mic drop


Now that would be missing the point that donate and give aid in different ways.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu May 14 14:12:29
What Jergul is saying is that you people are cheap ass greedy little fucks.
Dakyron
Member
Thu May 14 14:14:29
Why don't you stop fingering your asshole and go donate some money? Ask your wife for permission if you don't know how much money is in the bank.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 14:15:33
Also Norway is a much wealthier nation. There are many parts of the US that are poor as shit,we should donate to them, you shpuld donate to them you cheap skate.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 14:25:32
"Congress passed the Foreign Assistance Act on 4 September 1961, reorganizing U.S. foreign assistance programs and separating military and non-military aid. The Act was established by President Kennedy two months later. USAID became the first U.S. foreign assistance organization whose primary focus was long-term economic and social development"

Its how foreign aid is calculated. Most nations don't even bother pulling defense aid out of their military budgets.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 14:26:39
Military assistance was 14 billion btw.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 14:30:53
I am pretty sure that what Habebe will take away from this thread is the need to tax remittances to raise money to pay back the federal debt.

Am I wrong habebe?
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 15:26:14
What I take away from this is that we give charitably in different ways which it does not make sense to compare certain stats against others.

If you really want to compare , many things need be taken into account.

If you so wish you can have one number with and another without military aid.

However given the US contributions to allied defences and the expenditure I would atleast represent that number.

Of course nations who barley maintain a military will have extra funds to be generous with.

Now whether or not its foreign seems an odd measure as well. Is it any more charitable to help your fellow country men than a foreigner?

The US encourages private charitable donations over government expenditure. This is not the case in many other nations where much ofnthete charity is through government.This is the main reason for the discrepencies.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 16:08:12
habebe
You were the one comparing. I was just showing that Norway does give a lot of foreign aid.

The number you give in military aid is 14 billion.

Why do you find it so hurtful that someone is gives more foreign aid than you do?
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 16:27:09
Read your own posts. YOU started questioning us aid.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 16:44:56
In response to your suggesting that oil extracting countries have some particular moral obligation to provide aid.

I do think Norway has that obligation, but not because a portion of its revenue is from oil.

The flip side of that would be not providing assistance this year as oil exploitation is going to be a net drain on the budget this year.

Again, why is it hurtful to you that we chose to prioritise foreign aid ahead of other things?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu May 14 16:48:38
Habebe has a point, helping an ally in need with military aid should count. But not when it basically amounts to corporate wellfare via shithole dictatorships.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu May 14 16:49:23
The Marshall plan was very charitable and so was US support of the allies during WW2.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 16:54:42
Nimi
Fine. We can include the 14 billion. It seems like chicken feed, but it still amounts to say 6000 Abrams MBTs (list price).

US foreign aid is now 1.15% of Gdp

The Marshall plan was very charitable.
jergul
large member
Thu May 14 17:03:29
I am not so sure about wartime aid. We give boots and you give bodies and blood seems at worst a fair trade.

Its not like huge stockpiles of wartime transfers survived the war. Soviet losses in particular were horrendous.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 17:29:28
So do your numbers include the defense we offer natiins like Japan, Germany and South Korea? 5 billion a year just to SK and it's more to Germany and Japan.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 14 17:31:36
Also you do not seem to factor in private donations where the US gives a much greater deal of charity than most countries as we opt to give through private donations than we donate through the government.
jergul
large member
Fri May 15 03:17:23
Habebe
I did factor in private donations to international aid.

I did not factor in military spending that falls under collective defence agreements.

If the US Congress wants to count that spending as charity, then it should classify the spending in that way.
Habebe
Member
Fri May 15 12:50:14
Well, They didnt call Vietnam a war either.

Trump has actually caled out these nations to start paying more.
Habebe
Member
Fri May 15 12:55:18
So anyway, as a nation i think the US gives a lot in financial and other means to our friends and allies, charity etc.
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