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Utopia Talk / Politics / "One country, two systems" officially de
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 11:43:19
"21 May, 2020

Beijing will introduce a draft resolution to allow the National People’s Congress to chart legislation for a new national security law tailor-made for Hong Kong that will proscribe secessionist and subversive activity, foreign interference and terrorism in the city, sources have told the Post.

A Beijing source said the new law would ban all seditious activities aimed at toppling the central government and external interference in Hong Kong’s affairs. It would also target terrorist acts in the city.

A mainland source familiar with Hong Kong affairs said Beijing had concluded that it was impossible for the city’s Legislative Council to pass a national security law under Article 23 given the city’s political climate and hence was turning to the National People’s Congress, the country’s legislature, to take on the responsibility.

“Some opposition politicians have shut the window for Hong Kong to enact its own national security law,” the source said, referring to the confrontational approach they had adopted towards Beijing.

http://www...ill-beijing-go-push-article-23
Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 11:48:51
Are you siding with the terrorists, Rugian?

China too has a right to fight terrorists and foreign interference.
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 11:53:15
Yes Paramount, we all know you're an idiot.

China wasn't able to get the Hong Kong executive and legislative branches to pass their national security legislation, so now they're completely dropping the facade and openly imposing it on the city by fiat. No one can credibly say that One Country Two Systems still exists at this point.

When China had taken over Hong Kong, it had pledged to respect the city's autonomy for 50 years. Is this what "holding up your obligations" looks like?
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 11:58:35
good, this is the best piece of news of the day.

not sure what they debatin about. just implement!

on a serious note, how does this end the one country two systems.

ur nuts rugiot.

the protests last year were paid by ur dumbass foundations. ur lucky they havent been detained and arrested.

the moment the fundin was blocked in december last year, was the moment all protests died out.

Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 11:58:41
Maybe China too, like the US, can tear up agreements that they are not happy with or that is harming their national security.

Besides, regarding this proposed security law, as long as you are not a terrorist you should have nothing to worry about :o)
jergul
large member
Thu May 21 12:03:26
Yah Ruggy, relax. Nothing here to see. China is just making a new deal better suited its interests.
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 12:06:13
^defenders of communists and haters of democracy

Why is it that you guys - always - come out in favor of the most garbage regimes on the planet?
jergul
large member
Thu May 21 12:09:13
I never come out in favour of one of the most garbage regimes on the planet.
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 12:12:48
"A top Beijing official has said China will support Hong Kong in “improving” mechanisms related to its mini-constitution, while excluding the usual mention of the city’s high degree of autonomy at the opening of the third session of the 13th Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).

In delivering the party’s annual work report on Thursday, CPPCC Chairman Wang Yang said the committee has supported members from Hong Kong to actively voice their opinions and gather positive energy to “stop violence and curb disorder.”

However, in Wang’s speech, he did not mention “Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong,” nor the city’s high degree of autonomy, as he did in the previous year."

http://hon...pfzyl3PV2YyC3o4QkOSUIvHQzvNtuE

It's dead Jim.
jergul
large member
Thu May 21 12:15:37
Ruggy
I look forward to US tariffs on stuff from hong kong. Since its no longer independent and stuff.
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 12:18:23
Way ahead of you jergul, O lover of authoritarian shitholes:

"Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Wednesday that the recent treatment of pro-democracy figures in Hong Kong has made it more difficult to asses the city’s autonomy from Beijing, a requirement for it to retain its special economic treatment under U.S. law."

http://tim...hong-kong-autonomy-assessment/
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 12:25:16
Hong kong was clearly lackin in the proper laws 2 deal with the crap. last year has shown this.

the moment china had enough and blocked the foreign funding, all the protests died out.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE RUGIOT. EXCEPT COINCIDENCE DUNT EXISTS. DO THEY.

Facts clearly show that china needs proper laws 2 deal with this crap.

also what about that 1000 personnel embassy in HK. like why does a tiny city like HK have over 1000 US personnel in its embassy?

thats just the listed personnel.
its a spy hub. everyone knows this.

if u hadnt involved the city in such a way, this didnt need 2 happen. but alas u give us no choice now.

we need 2 close the gap so u cant abuse OUR HOSPOTALITY and FREEDOMS granted 2 u while ur in OUR CITY OUR LANDS.

WE give u food, shelter, entertainment, shoppin, freedoms 2 do what u want in OUR CITY, and u abuse it in such a way to humiliate us...

no more.
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 12:28:06
"OUR CITY"

In light of China's violation of the most basic tenets of the handover agreement, it's probably more accurate for you to say "the UK's city."

Although given your present citizenship, I suppose that does technically make it "OUR CITY" for you...
Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 12:33:32
I’m not sure if I’m defending China, I only see that they are doing the same or similar things as the democracy USA is. Fighting terrorists and threats to national security.

If Israel, Saudi Barbaria, Egypt, USA etc can fight terrorists and threats to national security, why not China too?

All this talk about human rights and democracy etc is just nonsense when you allow or turn a blind eye to violations of human rights in so many other places around the world. The US has set the standard with its support of dictatorships and human rights violators. Now we get to live with it. You have got to be consistent if you successfully want to fight human rights violations and anti-democratic regimes.
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 12:33:52
Its our city, kid.

and by our do i mean CHINESE.

the city was never british, only strongarmed into a british stronghold which has since been rectified.

didnt ur historyteacher give u the memo?

has american education fallen this low?

The Children
Member
Thu May 21 12:38:18
u abuse our hospitality rugiot.
we grant u all the things of a metropolis and we allow u go there and enjoy all the things it has 2 offer.

but u turned it around and u tried 2 humiliate us. tried 2 steal it away from us. abuse the loopholes 2 spy on us.
abuse the loopholes 2 beat up our peoples, spread false lies and fakenews and propaganda.

u made a lot of hongkongers cry realizin they were being used by foreign powers 2 turn them against china.

u made a lot of hongkongers victims of violence and humiliation when they tried 2 confront ur thuggangs...

no more.

u came into our house and ate our food. we gave u a bed, shelter but u tried 2 rob us.

ur not victims rugiot. u lie, u cheat u steal.
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 12:41:23
His name was Luo Changqing

On 13 November 2019, a conflict between opposing groups took place on Lung Wan Street, outside the North District Town Hall, in Sheung Shui.[3][4] Around noon, several people were trying to clear bricks left by protesters on the street.[2][7][12] They were described by media outlets as residents of Sheung Shui[22] or government supporters.[28] However, a group of protesters appeared and argued with the group who were clearing bricks, after which the violent confrontation between the two sides erupted.[3][12]

The fight between the two groups broke out at 11.52 AM.[3] It involved both parties hurling bricks at each other.[3][4][11][12] The protesters were dressed in black,[4][7][9] wore masks over their faces,[2][7][29] and carried umbrellas used as protection for the fight.[30] The incident lasted for about a minute,[3][4] after which the protesters retreated under the shelter of their umbrellas.[3][4][19]

Luo was part of the group who were clearing the street.[12] He was also helping to clear the street,[5][23] while he was taking his lunch break.[7][9][10][11] The location was about 300 metres away from his workplace.[2] During the confrontation, he was using his mobile phone to record the conflict.[7][9][10][15] He did not participate in the brick throwing.[9][11]

Luo was hit by a brick thrown by one of the black-clad protesters.[35] He lost consciousness after he was hit and did not regain it before he died
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 12:42:58
Parafag

The day Hong Kongers start lynching Chinese reservists and blowing up cafes, let me know. Until then, "fighting terrorists" looks a lot more like clamping down on pro-democracy protestors.

TC

Why are you trying to frame this as a measure against the US? This law fucks native Hong Kongers, not us.
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 12:43:27
The son of an elderly man who died after a Hong Kong rioter hit him in the head with a brick has urged the perpetrator to surrender to police.
Key points:

The man's son says he never got to speak to his father before he died
He says his father was an innocent man and he could not understand why he was killed
Authorities say his father was killed by a brick thrown by "masked rioters"

Earlier in November, videos surfaced on social media showing the 70-year-old street cleaner being hit in the head by a brick which the authorities said was thrown by "masked rioters".

In an interview with China Global Television Network, Luo, the man's son who did not disclose his last name, said that he couldn't understand the ruthlessness that led to such an act.

"When I saw the video, I just couldn't believe it. He is just a 70-year-old innocent man. Who is so ruthless to kill him?" Luo said.

Luo said that he was too sad to cry.
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 12:47:19
His name was Li ching cheung

http://www...fter-row-vandals-tells-chinese
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 12:48:42
justice is coming for these peoples, rugiot.
long have we waited. but it is here now.
Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 12:56:35
They have set fire to buildings, vandalized the city, beaten up civilians in ways that looks like lynching, they have killed at least one civilian, violent attacks against the police, etc and so on.

And yet they have more freedom and luxury than the Palestinians can ever dream of.

The Palestinians are real pro-freedom protesters. The violent Hong Kongers are just paid thugs and terrorists.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 21 12:59:42
So can we get chuck Norris to light saber battle Xi jinping yet?

Damn auto correct keeps changing it to xi jumping.lol

I mean is anyone surprised at this? I think the timing is a little odd with Taiwan having there shit going on but maybe they're figuring now since no onw wants.to gather in groups to protest is the time to strike.

Paramount is crazy, Jergul is just trolling.

Tc is well, tc.
The Children
Member
Thu May 21 13:00:44
yup, but the usa have alternative motivations.

this is why they always VETO and block any israel resolutions while they condemn china on every front.

China hasnt used there veto power for over 10 years.

usa uses it on a weekly basis like potato with steaks.

Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 13:08:49
” The violent Hong Kongers are just paid thugs and terrorists”

Terrorists in the way that they with the use of violence wants to overthrow the government and secession from mainland China, and thus replace the ”One country, two systems” agreement with a ”One Hong Kong, One System”.

In Spain, UK and elsewhere in Europe, secessionist are jailed or shot.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 21 13:11:18
Paramount, What exactly is your beef with the protesters?
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 13:32:42
He doesnt have a problem with the protestors, he has a problem with Jews. In his insane mind, Israel being able to protect itself from terrorism is a green light for authoritarian regimes to stamp out democracy in the rest of the world.
Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 13:33:23
I have no beef with them. I only made a quick analyze of them, based on my impression of them. I get it that (some of) the protesters want to be independent from China.

But I’m not sure if this is originally their own idea, or if they have been talked into and tricked to start this by someone else (the US) for one or more reasons.

One reason could be to counteract and make it difficult and hellish for China. And if Hong Kong succeeds with a secession, well, that will just be a big bonus of the US.
Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 13:48:06
In Rugians insane mind, the US can work together with, support and protect the two biggest terrorist states and human rights violators in the world, Saudi Barbaria, Israel (and I’ll also throw in Egypt here), but somehow when China proposes a law that is intended to strengthen its national security, law and order, then suddenly authoritan regimes is something bad and should be fought at all cost.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 21 14:47:17
Well, In the case of Saudi Arabia at least they are liberalizing some what.

I actually knew a bunch of Saudis, good people. Well, Abdul was an add, but every group has its asshole.

As for HK , how exactly would the US trick an entire city that the CCP isn't the kind of people you want in charge of your government?

Much of the problem is how they implemented the law with no say from HK.


If I ramble on I'm. Blaming the Nyquil.
Paramount
Member
Thu May 21 15:16:01
I don’t think they need to convince an entire city. The US can talk with a few hand picked people. This small group of native Hong Kongers would then talk with and recruit others, who in turn would talk to others, and so on, until they have gathered a mass of pro-American anti-China ruffians who are ready to use violence against their own people.
jergul
large member
Thu May 21 16:13:43
Critical mass for revolutions is 3.5% of the population.

1 country - 2 systems does not work very well if one system does far better than the other.

This could be at the core of why China is passing legislation for HK now.

It may be in its long term interests that HK be subject to the same trading regimes that mainland china has.
Dakyron
Member
Thu May 21 16:18:57
Obviously. Keeping HK free while mainland China is stompled is not sustainable in the long run.

Blame the British for giving HK back. They should have stationed troops there and claimed it was part of the commonwealth for all eternity. Instead they capitulated and doomed an entire island full of people to certain doom.
Seb
Member
Thu May 21 16:31:43
Dakyron:

Part of the reason we set up democracy in Hong Kong in the mid to late 80s (there wasn't even universal suffrage until 1997) was because we realised if we did try to hold it against the treaty, we'd not be able to resist against the Chinese.

And America was an ally of China up until the USSR broke up who would never prioritise a British war to keep a colony over a strategic partnership that undermined the USSR.

Seb
Member
Thu May 21 16:33:17
Basically, Britain only make Hong Kong a democracy to try to spread democracy to China. We were quite happy with it being governed by a company with a toothless advisory council set up in the 50s until it was time to start packing up.
Dakyron
Member
Thu May 21 16:40:18
"Part of the reason we set up democracy in Hong Kong in the mid to late 80s (there wasn't even universal suffrage until 1997) was because we realised if we did try to hold it against the treaty, we'd not be able to resist against the Chinese. "

Please. Station some elite troops and a few nukes in Hong Kong and you could hold out forever. It is not 1850, when numerical superiority was paramount.
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 16:43:07
But you did give the people of Hong Kong a taste of democracy and freedom. And now it is cruelly being taken away from them by one of the single most authoritarian regimes in all of human history.

How can you seriously be okay with that?

Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 16:43:28
@ Seb
Rugian
Member
Thu May 21 16:53:19
Also, if closer relations with China were predicated on mutual hostility to the USSR and a belief that the CCP would eventually be liberalized, then how can you seriously argue that they are still worthwhile? The Sovier Union is gone and clearly China had no desire to reform.

We tried to bring China in from the global cold based on beliefs that are now outdated or proven remarkably too optimistic. Its time to wash our hands of this failed experiment and give them the North Korea treatment.
Seb
Member
Thu May 21 18:05:50
Dakyron:

So China attacks us, we are going to nuke them?

They have nukes too. We'd look like the aggressors. This is a great way to lose a bunch of men and some nukes.

Rugian:
You think China is more authoritarian than nazi Germany or stalinist Russia?

Please.

The only reason we gave them a taste of freedom was a gambit to introduce it to China. If we hadn't decided we're were going to give it back, we're probably wouldn't have introduced democracy.

Trying to manage the rise of China is essential.

Your methods though, are like those of a 3 year old wanting a second portion of pudding.
Habebe
Member
Thu May 21 20:55:11
Seb , How do you think we should " manage the rise of China"
Paramount
Member
Fri May 22 01:29:34
A more pressing issue is how we should manage the idiocy and fall of America.

Yes, there is human rights violations in China, but human rights violations and lack of democracy has never stopped us from cooperating and doing business with a country before.
The Children
Member
Fri May 22 01:41:28
exactly.

hababy is an idiot.
we are ur dog, hababy.
u dunt manage us like u do with ur dog. "go sit there doggie. good booooyyy. sooo gooood u r!!!"

a typical imperialist mindset. FUCK that SHIT.



Habebe
Member
Fri May 22 01:47:18
" we are ur dog"

Is that food for you?
Habebe
Member
Fri May 22 01:48:47
Also whats this " we" your in London.If you were in the mainland you could not post on this forum.
The Children
Member
Fri May 22 01:57:59
stfu.

u know exactly what i meant. we are not ur dog, u imperialist bitch
jergul
large member
Fri May 22 03:00:28
"The law, which is expected to ban sedition, secession and subversion of the central government in Beijing, will be introduced through a rarely used constitutional method that could effectively bypass Hong Kong's legislature."

Everything is good. Turns out the plan is to use a "Constitutional method" to introduce the legislature.
Seb
Member
Fri May 22 03:05:50
Habebe:

Through binding then into a rules based system using international institutions that ratchets up. But that requires:
a. Powerful Western countries such as the US accept such rules themselves
b. Unity of the West and ensuring we keep the developing world onside

Paramount
Member
Fri May 22 03:19:00
Hong Kong to adopt security law 'as soon as possible'

Hong Kong's chief executive vowed Friday to "fully cooperate" with Beijing over a national security law for the semi-autonomous territory, after lawmakers introduced a draft proposal at the National People's Congress.

Carrie Lam said in a statement that the Hong Kong government will "complete the legislation as soon as possible to discharge its responsibility of safeguarding national security".

http://afp...-possible-city-leader/a/dOXjO1
The Children
Member
Fri May 22 03:56:48
"Hong Kong is ‘anxious, angry and frightened,’ ex-lawmaker says of China’s proposed security law"

>> speaketh the dawgs worshippin foreign masters.
the words have been said.

frightened she said.

but when usa put sanctions on HK last year, this same whore was cheering??

was HK supposed 2 be better off with US sanctions that they begged usa to put on.

joshua stinkin sellout wong travelled to usa in november 2019 in a muppetshow put on by foreign powers, where be BEGGED the big americans to put sanctions on HK.

he got his wish. then he flew back to HK and expected to participate in HK elections as the great savior of HK.

can it get any more absurd than this????

the great slave of the white men.

how come USA get to draft bills about HK, a CHINESE CITY, but China cant draft bills about CHINESE CITY.

can these ugly foreigners get any more absurd?

The Children
Member
Fri May 22 04:00:28
his name was joshua sellout wong, aka a mrchang.

unlike his other traitor sellout, he was not enrolled into yale.

but somehow he got 6.7 mill in his bank account without which he wuldve been sleepin in a cage since he has no skillset or anything useful 2 offer society.

how come the rest of us have 2 struggle this hard but this fetchindog has 6,7 mill in his bank account.

well, u see kids. all u gotta do is jump ship, sell out ur skin and trashtalk whenever possible and u 2 can be rich...
The Children
Member
Fri May 22 04:04:01
how do these sell outs and fetchindogs for foreigner get so rich...

HK is a brutal society where housin prices r unaffordable and if ur poor, ur shit outta luck. u be sleepin in a cage the size of a...well a cage.

so how exactly do all these sell outs get 2 be so rich.

with no skill set, failin in school, but a bank account that screams "ur set 4 life".

Habebe
Member
Fri May 22 04:21:11
Tc, Why don't you go to HK and find out.
jergul
large member
Fri May 22 05:55:10
Remember that China is a Republic, and not a democracy.

Its a common mistake people make.
Rugian
Member
Fri May 22 09:12:14
Seb

My methods are those of a child? Why, because I recognize a problem when there is one?

You are the guy watching Germany annexing the Sudetenland and insisting that the NSADP can still be reasoned with.

There is a time and a place for dealing with unsavory regimes. China's malevolence and influence, however, necessitate a much more hostile approach. Cutting them off from the Western economy and destroying their diplomatic influence should be starting steps if we want to preserve the future of liberal democracy in the world.
Paramount
Member
Fri May 22 10:12:23
Trump and his gang of Netanyahoos, Bolsonaros and Orbans is a more imminent threat to liberal democracy than China is.
Habebe
Member
Fri May 22 10:17:49
Paramount, You say that. But your a commie....so
jergul
large member
Fri May 22 10:34:25
Ruggy
The first step in your plan is domestic regime change. The is nothing called the West that includes the USA if Trump has a 2nd term.

You underestimate how strongly his policies are disliked.
The Children
Member
Sun May 31 12:52:36
http://www...tial_law_after_only_less_than/

how them tears tastin, kids.
oh get rekted.
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