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Utopia Talk / Politics / Crackdown in Minneapolis 2
Rugian
Member
Sat May 30 13:12:36
jergul

I'm very sorry that you seem to be unable to move beyond the year 2011, but in case you hadn't noticed Obama, Cameron, and Hollande have all left office by now. So your regime change rhetoric is somewhat outdated.
The Children
Member
Sat May 30 13:17:56
stand behind minneapolis! fight for freedom. the police are crackin down hard. the brutality is UNHEARD OF!!!!

there lands r being stolen. We must stand with the minneapolans.
Rugian
Member
Sat May 30 13:19:23
I wasn't aware that the MPD was trying to destroy One Country, Two Systems in Minneapolis. Can you provide a source for this?
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sat May 30 13:19:47
http://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1266742410446503936
The Children
Member
Sat May 30 13:23:07
its very simple rugian, the peoples only ask for 5 demands, not 1 less.

these r simple demands and u cant even meet them. u prove ur evil.

how come u cant give them the demands. its so simple.

they r peacefull peoples, they have no weapons.
they throw stones but ur armed with guns.

u force there hands. minneapolians be strong. the world stands with u. its time u start waiving foreign flags to call for help.
Rugian
Member
Sat May 30 13:27:04
The Children
Member Sat May 30 13:23:07
its very simple rugian, the peoples only ask for 5 demands, not 1 less.

Well actually they aren't, you just made that up. A bit different from HK there.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat May 30 16:14:02
they're marching to Trump Tower in Chicago...

plz smash & vandalize in the name of all that is good
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat May 30 16:49:24
why do the cops keep bringing the nice vehicles to get smashed & vandalized?... they should bring shit cars like Swayze in Road House
kargen
Member
Sat May 30 18:54:59
"there lands r being stolen"

again I ask who do you think the land is being stolen from?

"the peoples only ask for 5 demands"

Seems to me they have one demand. Free alcohol. Okay two demands. They also want some scratch tickets.
Y2A
Member
Sat May 30 18:57:39
It is pretty simple, people are tired of being disrespected in what is supposed to be their own country.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat May 30 21:16:50
this could be worst night yet... incidents in many cities even in daylight, including looting
Y2A
Member
Sat May 30 21:28:49
I don't see any live feeds from ny. if anyone has one, provide it here.
Habebe
Member
Sat May 30 21:39:03
Down here Columbia ( state Capitol) has had shots fired, cops out in force, suvs and a helicopter keeping the peace.

The city has people cleaning up The graffiti.
Habebe
Member
Sat May 30 21:41:38
Local NAACP leader came on the news to plead with people to "not destroy there dwellings, and the city is there dwelling"

Yadda yadda, keep things peaceful etc.
sam adams
Member
Sat May 30 21:44:03
"It is pretty simple, people are tired of being disrespected in what is supposed to be their own country."

Then stop comitting crime or defending those who do. No one respects criminals, nor will they ever.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat May 30 22:56:43
that kneeling cop should be pretty impressed with the amount of damage he's caused
Habebe
Member
Sat May 30 23:12:50
His wife filed for divorce today.She looks Mexican btw.

But yeah, bet he didnt see this coming.
Y2A
Member
Sat May 30 23:18:57
hmong
The Children
Member
Sun May 31 00:25:23
"Well actually they aren't, you just made that up. A bit different from HK there. "

>> actually u r right...

but thats only coz they havent discovered the beauty of da 5 demands, not 1 less!

Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 31 00:43:00
[Habebe]: "But yeah, bet he didnt see this coming."

..which makes me wonder if some people just don't realize how the Internet lynch mob works. If someone posts you doing something on video, the Internet lynch mob absolutely has some kind of demonizing angle for protest (i.e., http://i.imgur.com/MrQjpif.jpg ), whether online or in the streets — and that's even if it's not an intentional fault. Chauvin, meanwhile, knew he was being filmed and he *was* doing something awful and intentional, but he stayed the course. It was pretty brazen. So did he just not know that police have been under a magnifying glass for incidents exactly like this (Doesn't use the Internet?), was too wrapped up in getting revenge on an uncooperative suspect to care, or just wanted to go down for it? (Death wish?)

..
@twitter link ( http://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1266742410446503936 )

Pretty obvious that that officer lost control of his horse. Horses do not handle crowds well, even when trained for it, and of course the officer was blowing his whistle to warn that the bus was coming no matter what (more signs of lost control). That's just an incitement post for imperceptive viewers.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 31 00:43:53
Prosecutor Mike Freeman has formalized charges:

"Ex-police officer Derek Chauvin charged with murder, manslaughter in George Floyd death"
http://www...jailed/570869672/?refresh=true
"Hennepin County's prosecutor announced charges of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter against the fired Minneapolis officer Derek Chauvin who killed George Floyd ... The maximum sentence for third-degree murder is 25 years; the maximum for second-degree manslaughter is 10 years."

"Freeman explained that Chauvin was the first of the four charged because “we felt it was important to focus on the most dangerous perpetrator. I must say this case has moved with extraordinary speed.” ... Asked whether two nights of protest that destroyed dozens of buildings in Minneapolis and St. Paul factored into his charging decision, Freeman said the move was based on evidence, which includes video, witness statements, a preliminary medical examiner’s report and discussions with an expert."

More arrest details:
"According to the criminal complaint: Police were called after Floyd was suspected of passing a fake $20 bill at the Cup Foods store. Officers Thomas Lane and J Alexander Kueng approached Floyd, who was in a car with two other people.

"Lane pointed his gun at Floyd, who placed his hands on the steering wheel. Lane returned his gun to the holster and pulled him out of the car. Floyd initially resisted being handcuffed, but once cuffed was compliant. When they tried to put Floyd in the squad car, he stiffened and fell to the ground and said he was claustrophobic.

"Chauvin then arrived with his partner, Tou Thao, and the four officers struggled to place Floyd in the squad car. Chauvin then pulled Floyd out of the vehicle, and the 6-foot-6 Floyd again went to the ground while still handcuffed, the complaint read.

"As two officers held Floyd’s back and legs, Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck, the charges continued."

..
The charges confirm that Floyd was resisting getting into the squad car, so they'll be looking specifically at the section of the video where Floyd was on the ground. They'll be arguing depraved-indifference there (i.e., Chauvin didn't care that he was endangering Floyd, even though a reasonable person would know to stop). Seems like a good move by the prosecutor: if he'd gone with higher charges, there probably would not have been a conviction, but with these charges he can likely get one.
The Children
Member
Sun May 31 00:48:20
he being scapegoated.

formalised charges my ass.

throughout american history of the last 50 years, most white police officers get away scotch free.

only cop prosecuted was a black cop who shot a white woman.

even white racists get away with things like this. vincent chin, we all still remember, whiteys.

"
Ebens and Nitz were charged with second-degree murder, but bargained the charges down to manslaughter and pleaded guilty in 1983. They were ordered to pay $3,000 and serve three years' probation, with no jail time. While Ebens and Nitz never denied the brawl, they claimed the fight was not racially motivated and said they did not use racial epithets"

>> the colored persons all know deep down what a country the usa is.



The Children
Member
Sun May 31 01:04:09
5 demands, not 1 less.

where do these protesters have there website. its time they get to know the wonderfull "5 demands, not 1 less"- demand.

pelosi was right, what a beautifull sight 2 behold.

"
State news agency Xinhua described the chaotic scenes as “Pelosi’s beautiful landscape”, a veiled reference to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s comments last year that the mass protests in Hong Kong were “a beautiful sight to behold”."

HAHAHAA
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 31 02:47:21
[The Children]: "he being scapegoated.
formalised charges my ass."

It's difficult to be more wrong than this. Chauvin was charged formally for legal documents, hence "formalized charges", and he was not charged with public pressure calling the shots, which would have meant a too swift arrest and inappropriate charges that could not be sustained by court evidence, hence, not a scapegoat.

And it's interesting to call Chauvin a scapegoat while also saying that police have a history of getting away with their crimes. If he's a scapegoat, then the charges would be excessive, wouldn't they? If he was uninvolved but was being targeted for prosecution nonetheless, *that* would mean scapegoating, but he himself did the thing for which they charged him...

..
[The Children]: "throughout american history of the last 50 years, most white police officers get away scotch free."

You'd have to do more than bring in '80s examples, because you would be hard-pressed to find recent U.S. stories (last 20 years) where rioting occurred but the officer actually did the thing that the rioters claimed that he did. Typically, social media has to willfully ignore evidence to make their case against police. Cases like Michael Brown, where evidence showed Brown assaulting the officer (and yet, we still hear the lie, "Hands up, don't shoot"), or Alton Sterling, who was armed and reached for a pistol before being shot, or Anthony Lamar Smith, who was fleeing after being spotted at an armed drug deal and was shot while reaching for a weapon, or Walter Scott, who was fighting an officer and had pulled away his taser. Not good examples to justify their respective riots, and not good examples to say that the police "got away with it".

Philando Castile, though — that'd be good to mention. The officer was similarly charged with second-degree manslaughter, but he was acquitted. That could sound like injustice... except that Castile said that he had a firearm and then immediately began reaching into his pants against instructions. He was reaching for his wallet, but the bottom line for jurors was that someone who was confirmed in possession of a firearm was reaching into his pants against instructions. Not a good idea.

Eric Garner makes obvious parallels: forcibly restrained on the ground after resisting arrest, said he couldn't breathe, and then stopped breathing. The difference there was that he stopped breathing very quickly due to underlying conditions (asthma, obesity), and EMTs failed to provide oxygen when they arrived.

And people usually reference these stories when they talk about systemic police injustice — these stories that do not make the case that they think that they make, where the officer often gets charged not appropriately but expeditiously for the sake of pleasing rioting mobs.


George Floyd's case, I think, is different, because the evidence does not help the officers beyond the point that Floyd was restrained. They can and will claim and show proof that Floyd was a known criminal, that he had twice resisted arrest, that he was intoxicated, and that they were restraining him until an ambulance arrived... but the four officers involved will likely be unable to justify sufficiently why they restrained Floyd for four minutes after he had lost consciousness, why they did not render aid, why they did not put him into the recovery position, and overall why they were negligent of his condition. The two officers behind the squad car can claim that they did not see Floyd's face, but Chauvin and Tou Thao could see Floyd's condition without obstruction. It would be a real surprise if Chauvin does not see jail time.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun May 31 02:57:37
”Philando Castile”

Do people who intend to shoot cops normally declare they have a fire arm?

These stories are all signs of a system that has a very shot escalation ladder. A system where some ungodly number of the officers were former meat heads in the military. Systematically, US police are much closer to USMC check points in Baghdad than a civilized nations police force. It is to be expected from a culture whose solution to everything is to declare war on it.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 31 03:54:46
[Nimatzo]: "Do people who intend to shoot cops normally declare they have a fire arm?"

Nope, but they also don't actively reach into their pockets just after declaring such. In that situation (permitted firearm declaration), ideally, you have your hands visible on the steering wheel and do not move when you make the declaration, then tell exactly where the firearm is located, and then announce any movements in advance (e.g., my wallet is located in my pocket, I have to reach there to retrieve it). Poorly educated people object to these scenarios because they simply do not *know* acceptable behaviors and/or how unacceptable behaviors appear.

..
[Nimatzo]: "These stories are all signs of a system that has a very shot escalation ladder."

Agreed. I repeat this every time these stories pop up: police need to be better trained on the continuum of force. A big part of good continuum training is being watchful of signs that it's time to deescalate. For instance, just because someone does something lethal does not mean that all following force must be lethal. If a person fires a pistol but then throws the pistol away, lethal force no longer applies.

In Floyd's case, once he was on the ground and his movements restrained, Chauvin failed to use the continuum: readjust his position to control without causing further harm. His kneeling position was a controllable one; in that cuffing scenario, pressure is kept across the prone person to keep them from rolling, but the arresting person must alternate putting weight on the suspect versus putting weight on his or her own feet, depending on levels of active resistance (e.g., if the suspect lets up, move weight back to the feet, if the suspect attempts to roll away, move weight back over the suspect). Chauvin kept his weight entirely on Floyd, even when Floyd lost consciousness. That's poor training or disregard of his training.

..
[Nimatzo]: "A system where some ungodly number of the officers were former meat heads in the military. Systematically, US police are much closer to USMC check points in Baghdad than a civilized nations police force. It is to be expected from a culture whose solution to everything is to declare war on it."

This was mostly trollish bait with some demonstrably false digs at the military and the U.S. at large, but I'll respond at least to the idea that police failures come from military incompetence: say what you will about former military, but they tend to be trainable — much more trainable than people coming up with civilian sector experience alone. If given good training, they will do things correctly. If given bad training and a dubious sense of the correct, then their personal inclinations come to the forefront. Whether or not those personal inclinations tend to be more or less positive from military to civilian — I'm not sure there's data. We *do* know that Chauvin has a history of his negative personal inclinations being ignored by the department (multiple complaints and two letters of reprimand http://www...before-had-history-complaints/ ). It looked like he was lead officer between he and Tou Thao, which was a bad staffing decision (someone with that many disciplinary infractions should have to take a back seat).
kargen
Member
Sun May 31 04:12:50
"ideally, you have your hands visible on the steering wheel and do not move when you make the declaration"

Even when you do not have a weapon it is a good idea to have your right hand on the top of the steering wheel and your left hand up and either out the window or beside the closed window so it is easily seen. An officer that can clearly see both hands will relax and a relaxed officer is less likely to give a ticket.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun May 31 04:25:03
It was neither troll bait nor a dig at "military incompetence", but the spillover effect of military mentality into a city. We all accept certain behaviors and collateral damage in a war zone we would be horrified to see outside our homes as the police are subduing someone for fraud or weed possession.

"If only we educate people they will stop being morons."

It's easy to fall into the education/training trap, but clearly people come with prepackaged ideas and motivations that are not amenable to revision that easy. If language is used to escalate civilian policing to a "war on crime" and the ranks are filled with former military.

I'm not sure what data you need other than what we are seeing on video every month as family pets and unarmed people are killed over drug possession, fraud and broken tail lights? The only other place I heard things like this was in Baghdad when families got lit up, failing to respond fast enough to commands. It's a war right, I have no idea if this family dad is a Jihadi or of this black guy is a gang member waiting to pull a fast one.

It isn't just the police fault, in fact they are more the victim of the political system and media who have, for decades, used this language to win elections and getting views whipping up negative emotions and rallying around a common "foe". I mean for fuck sake, you had a war on POVERTY! That is how shit the imagination is when dealing with social problems. You don't actually solve anything, you just declare war on it and like most of the military adventures, you just make things worse.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun May 31 04:45:21
There is failure to appreciate the visceral concept that is war. War is black and white (very much so in the mind of the general populace). Wars have an enemy and you are the good guy of your story. You defeat the enemy by killing him and get home safe to your family. That is it. So when you introduce this thinking, you get results to match, because nuances can get you killed.

Notice how Trump is selling Corona as a war, calling it a worse _attack_ than Pearl Harbor. This is insanity and insanity is difficult to contain and to separate from reality when it has fully integrated into the cultural software.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 31 08:15:18
[Nimatzo]: "It's easy to fall into the education/training trap, but clearly people come with prepackaged ideas and motivations that are not amenable to revision that easy."

This shows the limits of your knowledge on the subject. Good training can accomplish a lot more than you think. It's within the very idea of martial arts (in the broad sense, which is not limited to local dojos but expanded to militaries) that training to be lethal only comes after training to be mature/controlled enough to use lethal force. Police, on the other hand, often do not receive training robust enough to handle the lethality that they dispense. One can find this when watching those videos of "family pets and unarmed people [being] killed over drug possession, fraud and broken tail lights" — people who know good training and their results can very easily see how training failed in those scenarios. The lack of discipline and basic self-control boils over.

Police, unlike the military, rarely receive *robust* deescalation and continuum of force training. In fact, "fear-based training" has been cited as being behind some police training:
http://www...icers-is-challenged/487958041/
From the article: Dave Grossman has been going around teaching police to fear for their lives above all, treat all encounters like those held with enemy combatants, and put self-preservation first. It's idiotic, but then you frequently hear police saying, "I was in fear for my life," when they make mistakes... a lack of self-control :|

..
[Nimatzo]: "It is to be expected from a culture whose solution to everything is to declare war on it."
[Nimatzo]: "You don't actually solve anything, you just declare war on it"

Oh, that kind of "war", lol. You said "a culture" that declares war, but you meant government, media, and state programs that call things a "war on...", which is sensationalist broadcasting — *not* the culture itself. I doubt many households declare war on empty refrigerators by going out for groceries, though that sounds cool and I'll start doing it now.

..
[Nimatzo]: "I'm not sure what data you need other than what we are seeing on video"

If your "data" ("video") was supposed to be the data that I speculated about when I said, "Whether or not those personal inclinations tend to be more or less positive from military to civilian — I'm not sure there's data", then your point was assuredly *not* data. "Video" was not a good connection between the question of civilian and former military and illegal use of force cases. Looking at the sensational cases, let's see how your former military theory holds up:

• Michael Brown, shot by officer Darren Wilson — Wilson was not a veteran; high school graduate, former construction worker
• Alton Sterling, shot by officer Blane Salamoni — Salamoni was cited for violating "policies on use of force and command of temper", he was not a veteran; high school graduate, former construction worker (weird coincidence that Wilson and Salamoni were both former construction workers http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/alton_sterling/article_dc82c5f8-342d-11e8-80a2-2321f64efd2a.html )
• Anthony Lamar Smith, shot by officer Jason Stockley — Stockley *is* a veteran! West Point graduate, commissioned in U.S. Army ( http://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-st-louis-police-officers-trial-murder/story?id=49932050 )
• Walter Scott, shot by officer Michael Slager — Slager was former U.S. Coast Guard; it appears that he was bumped down while enlisted, so maybe some maturity issues ( http://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2015/04/09/officer-and-victim-in-s-c-shooting-are-coast-guard-vets/ )
• Philando Castile, shot by officer Jeronimo Yanez — Yanez was not a veteran; straight to law enforcement after high school and getting a law enforcement degree ( http://live.mprnews.org/Event/The_trial_of_officer_Jeronimo_Yanez?Page=0 )
• Eric Garner, choked by officer Daniel Pantaleo — Pantaleo was not a veteran; he went from high school, to college (did not graduate), to the NYPD ( http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/daniel-pantaleo-fatal-choke-ready-back-job-article-1.2289076 )

2 out of 6 were veterans! Not bad! But were those veteran cases *illegal* use of force anyways? No. Smith was going for a gun, and Scott had just been in a fist fight with Slager and grabbed Slager's taser. Not exactly executions.

..
[Nimatzo]: "You defeat the enemy by killing him and get home safe to your family. That is it. So when you introduce this thinking, you get results to match, because nuances can get you killed."

More fantasy filling in the limits of your knowledge. You have no idea how militaries operate in modern theaters. Meanwhile...

"Military-Trained Police May Be Less Hasty To Shoot, But That Got This Vet Fired"
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/08/504718239/military-trained-police-may-be-slower-to-shoot-but-that-got-this-vet-fired
"Stephen Mader, a 25-year-old Marine Corps veteran and rookie cop who was alone in his squad car" had "Ronald D. Williams, a 23-year-old black man" pull a weapon on him and attempt suicide by cop. Mader did not fire.
"Police get trained on de-escalation, but in that moment Mader was leaning more on training from the Marine Corps and experience in Afghanistan. That knowledge can be a key difference between police officers with military backgrounds and those without.
""Before you go to Afghanistan, they give you training," Mader said. "You need to be able to kind of read people. Not everybody over there is a bad guy, but they all dress the same. That's kind of what the situation was that night."
"In Afghanistan, the rules of engagement sometimes were stricter than use-of-force rules for civilian police in America."
"The Marines had taught him to wait for clear hostile intent before opening fire, something he didn't see from Williams."
But then the regular police show up and shoot Williams.
"The one officer [who fired] felt that his life was in danger, along with others'"
"But what Alexander characterizes as hesitation others may see as experience. Around the country, police chiefs who've hired war veterans have commented on their maturity and self-control when facing danger.

"Dave Wilson, chief in the Wisconsin town of Shell Lake, an Iraq War veteran himself, said the vets he has hired make for ideal cops. "If anything else, they have a better understanding of rules of engagement and use of force than others might," Wilson said. "They're used to seeing people holding guns, and they take the time to assess the real danger of the situation."
"Researchers are starting to look at this, too. At Washington State University, Stephen James is part of an effort to test law enforcement officers' reactions in simulators, and one of the factors they're tracking is whether the officers are veterans. The data haven't been compiled, yet, but he said other studies of how the brain operates under pressure would suggest that veterans are more "patient."

"Combat vets who've been exposed to extreme violence have a different 'threat threshold,'" James said, "which means that they're in more control of their physiology, and they're not allowing this fight-or-flight response to drive them into action.""

..
The closest contrary possibility I saw was this:
"Does military veteran status and deployment history impact officer involved shootings? A case–control study"
http://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article-abstract/41/3/e245/5114353
"Results: Records were abstracted for 516 officers. In the adjusted models, veteran LEOs who were not deployed were significantly more likely to be involved in a shooting than non-veteran officers. Veterans with a deployment history were 2.9 times more likely to be in a shooting than non-veteran officers."

Problems: small pool of about 500 officers, all from Dallas, Texas, (not a nationwide study). And again, were the shootings illegal or investigated as bad shootings? No data. It could very well be that Dallas has more shooting situations. No data.
Average Ameriacn
Member
Sun May 31 09:39:40
Take that Antifa!

http://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1266908354821206016
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 09:40:58
http://twi...york-police-rams-protesters%2F
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 31 09:44:42
Curfew in Minneapolis brought out some no-warning-of-consequences-before-firing police:
http://imgur.com/gallery/55mGAOx
Rugian
Member
Sun May 31 09:47:29
^fucking garbage. Police militarization never should have been allowed.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 09:57:34
” Salt Lake City cops shove down an elderly man with a cane for the crime of standing along the street:”

The man was just standing there peacefully. Americans are no longer allowed to exist. This is a violation of Human Rights. The Trump Forces has to respect people’s rights.
Rugian
Member
Sun May 31 09:59:07
Guess the rightwing lockdown protestors who decided to arm themselves dont look so stupid now, huh?

Turns out the right to bear arms is the one thing that stops the police from firing tear gas canisters at your face.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 10:03:49
” Oh my god. What is the @NYPDnews doing?”

Protect and serve the citizens. By trying to murder as many citizens as possible.

Soon, all the NGO’s in America will go live on tv and say that ”people has a right to protest” and that ”the US regime must respect the rights and the will of the people”. Oh wait, I forgot, they only do that when there are similar protests in other countries.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 10:06:18
America is worse than China. Just look at all that shit.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun May 31 10:07:01
Nah, they still look stupid.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 10:11:00
”^fucking garbage. Police militarization never should have been allowed.”

But the USA needs a national security law that allows the military to crackdown on and kill the people if they tries anything.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 10:12:10
http://twitter.com/nataliealund/status/1266877181164089349
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 10:21:58
^ LOL the american police are not only killers they are also thieves and steals things from citizens.

Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun May 31 10:25:52
Regarding the incident shown in the Twitter link:

http://wfp...eized-supplies-were-hazardous/
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 10:31:27
The idea of the world recognizing Larry Sanders as the legitimate president of United States during a transitional government does not sound so radical anymore. This is crazy. USA has got to stop this. They can not have a police force that is killing people and stealing their property.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun May 31 10:36:10
Paramount, the immortal words of Kirk Lazarus can hopefully provide some guidance for your current posting trend:

"Everybody knows you never go full retard."
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 10:40:13
http://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168
jergul
large member
Sun May 31 10:40:27
WoO
Its applied perspective. Or mirroring bad behavior.

How do you think people in Syria, Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan feel when the US fronts people who have not been in the country for multiple decades as the legitimate leaders there?

Well now, since Para has now fronted Larry Sanders as the legitimate leader of a transitional US government, you know.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun May 31 10:43:36
Arguing for the sake arguing again, lol.

I didn't realize Paramount was from one of those countries. I also didn't realize Paramount was actually serious about his suggestions rather than posting extreme hyperbole.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun May 31 10:44:00
Ohoh wait, sorry, you're "providing perspective." My bad, bro.
jergul
large member
Sun May 31 10:56:09
Did you learn anything? Perhaps something about not immediately latching on to "snipers firing into crowds", or "Trump is killing his own people"?

The beatings shall continue until moral improves :D.
Rugian
Member
Sun May 31 10:57:46
Misapplied perspective more like it. Anyone arguing that the United States and Syria/Iran/Iran/Afghanistan/wherever are at all comparable is either delusional or (more likely in this case) an anti-Western propagandist.
jergul
large member
Sun May 31 11:20:28
Ruggy
Well, the US does not have other countries inciting revolt, providing transitional leadership, engaging in various covert operations, embargoing the crap out of it, providing cash funding to violent groups and heavy weapons to those that want it.

Let alone actual boots on the ground.

Could you even imagine? Anyone trying that would be called worse than hitler and attacked immediately.
LazyCommunist
Member
Sun May 31 11:21:48
The revolution is real: even "Teen Vogue" joins the uprise!

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/how-to-film-police-safely

How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 11:26:09
http://twi...or1/status/1266910375200473095
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 11:28:53
http://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1267087714815365124
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 11:39:38

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump


The United States of America will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization.
12:23 PM · May 31, 2020
Rugian
Member
Sun May 31 11:41:42
Hahahaha. The MADMAN!
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 12:14:07
Send them all to Gitmo!

Detain their friends and families too and question them! They can’t be completely unknowing that their family member or friend is a member of Antifa.
Average Ameriacn
Member
Sun May 31 12:17:06
Who is the leader of Antifa? Berny Sanders? Noam Chomsky? I'm not sure...
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 12:21:45
The US police attacks children also:

http://twi...tatus/1267057207172050944?s=21
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 12:22:45
They kick and beat peaceful protesters:

http://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1267081416539615235?s=21
The Children
Member
Sun May 31 12:24:08
"It's difficult to be more wrong than this. Chauvin was charged formally for legal documents, hence "formalized charges", and he was not charged with public pressure calling the shots, which would have meant a too swift arrest and inappropriate charges that could not be sustained by court evidence, hence, not a scapegoat.

And it's interesting to call Chauvin a scapegoat while also saying that police have a history of getting away with their crimes. If he's a scapegoat, then the charges would be excessive, wouldn't they? If he was uninvolved but was being targeted for prosecution nonetheless, *that* would mean scapegoating, but he himself did the thing for which they charged him... "

>> imagine being this far off on the brainwash scale...

the evidence is clear, woman.

hate crimes in usa rarely get any real convictions.

vincent chin.

Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 12:24:09
The USA and its police force has no clue why people are protesting.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 12:26:41
I think China should now follow the example of the democracy USA and call in the military to deal with the protesters. China should also label the HK rioters a terrorist organization.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun May 31 12:28:41
an adult's response to Trump's antifa tweet
"
Waste no brain cells on this. Antifa is a vaguely defined movement of people who like direct-action protest tactics, not an actual organization. Even if it were a real group, the law that lets the government deem entities as terrorists only applies to foreign orgs.
"
Rugian
Member
Sun May 31 12:33:19
Trump got tw to support Antifa. Lmao!
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun May 31 12:38:57
If you actually consider that a statement of support for antifa, you're far more fucked in the head than I ever imagined.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun May 31 13:29:01
Rugian misinterprets my stuff often... Trump being hopped up on Fox News & doing something that has no meaning was my point

-------

daylight looting in Philadelphia (on CNN)
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 13:58:10
Insane. He was still moving at the end. Surprised that the police didn’t tase him there.

http://twi...tatus/1266771549442453511?s=21
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 14:06:32
putin is behind all this
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 14:12:05
That police officer has no control over his dog. Has he even got a proper education and training? He can’t have.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun May 31 14:14:02
i'm tired of all this winning
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 14:18:12
if only the orange tard would bomb syria or say something nasty about putin,then you'd hop on the winning bandwagon again.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 14:24:00
” Who is the leader of Antifa? Berny Sanders? Noam Chomsky? I'm not sure...”

I think Bernie Sanders and Noam Chomsky are two of the spiritual leaders. It should mean that they will be arrested now and sent to Gitmo.
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 14:40:18
Also, Antifa means Anti-fascist. They are anti-fascists.

So Trump has made it a crime to be against fascism.
Rugian
Member
Sun May 31 14:46:27
NSDAP means National Socialists. They are socialists.

So Europe has made it a crime to be socialist.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 15:04:57
http://twitter.com/i/status/1267182813675216899
The Children
Member
Sun May 31 15:09:14
this is amazing.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 15:12:51
http://twitter.com/andrewkimmel/status/1266987126467461120
Paramount
Member
Sun May 31 15:59:55
^ That was probably Putin as well.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun May 31 16:53:49
a compilation video of questionable cop behavior
http://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1266917228752056320
Habebe
Member
Sun May 31 16:55:42
Rugian beat me to it.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Sun May 31 18:32:40

http://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1267233622215602186
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun May 31 21:51:51
[The Children]: "hate crimes in usa rarely get any real convictions. [/] vincent chin."

Now you're casting the net wider? Before we were talking about police convictions, now it's just *any* hate crime perpetrated by any citizen? And still taking stories from the '80s...

..
[The Children]: "imagine being this far off on the brainwash scale..."

Imagine not realizing that the things I mentioned were strict legal realities (i.e., the meaning of charges and their relationship to evidenced activities). Of course, since it's evidenced realities, you have no counterpoint besides changing the subject. That *does* sound similar to Twitter logic, so it's a good troll, I suppose.

..
[Paramount]: "Also, Antifa means Anti-fascist. They are anti-fascists."

lol, good joke

..
@Susan Rice Twitter link ( http://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1267182813675216899 )

You'd be a fool to think that Russia hasn't been taking advantage of this situation in the States. Useful idiots would dismiss the idea under the belief that police making mistakes and rioters being local couldn't be forged and thus Russia couldn't be involved, but that ignores the role that Russian trolls can play on social media. It comes down to simple actions like sensationalist titles on Twitter videos which omit context and obscure evidence, or dismissing and downvoting counterpoints — manipulating the visibility algorithm so that the average U.S. Twitter user's feed saturates them with surface level injustices and race-baiting. Then the useful idiots re-Tweet, share, and take to the streets, with the two sides (police and protestors) successfully played against each other via their own ignorance.

As recently as March, Russian troll farms were being shut down for stoking racial tensions in the U.S.:
http://www.theverge.com/2020/3/13/21178071/facebook-twitter-suspend-russia-troll-ghana-african-americans
They've done this in France. The goal is simple: stoke tensions between groups, wait for that tension to produce negative outcomes, and watch as the groups tear each other apart. They don't need Russians physically on the ground; if the police read media that tells them that their power is being questioned by violent hooligans and the protestors read media showing police attacking people at random (news feeds tailored to them by their own inclinations), then locals do the dirty work for the instigators.

"Maxime Audinet of the French Institute of International Relations (IFRI) concurs ... 'Russian reporting seeks to further polarize public debate and to create the impression in France and abroad that the yellow vests have deeply divided France and brought it to the brink of civil war.'"
http://www.ifri.org/fr/espace-media/lifri-medias/frances-yellow-vests-and-russian-trolls-encourage-them

And it's always the same style of video edits used to instigate: People threatened by "peaceful" protestors making mistakes which instigate the protestors into real violence which "forces" their hands and "justifies" their actions. It's circular instigation: "[the police did this so we did this, then the police did this because we did that, then we retaliated for their retaliation, then [more Israel v. Palestine logic]]" This works wherever the playbook is too obvious. If police receive simple orders: "Enforce the curfew 100%", then they get carte blanche which makes them exceedingly easy to manipulate. Then you get videos of people violating curfew and being brutalized, so the bad conscience grows. Most of these people would not be in the streets if they got off Twitter for 24 hours.
obaminated
Member
Sun May 31 23:44:18
damn, LA county got hit hard by those animals.
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Jun 01 06:38:26
"Protesters hand rioter over to police"
http://www...rs_hand_rioter_over_to_police/

Kind of funny. Even after using police to stop him, someone keeps yelling, "Fuck the police," and in the longer video (posted in the comments), a tall man in riot gear berates a couple of the officers. So.. fuck the police.. but like, only a little.
Dukhat
Member
Mon Jun 01 10:44:56
Really should've impeached Trump when they had the chance. The Pandemic would not have killed nearly as many people and Pence would've had the balls to at least try to mend fences instead of run away like a scared little bitch like Trump.
LazyCommunist
Member
Mon Jun 01 10:48:37
"Protesters hand rioter over to police"

Undercover cops.
Paramount
Member
Mon Jun 01 11:34:33
Wanted: Antifa leader Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower, for destruction of fascist property, capturing fascists, and killing fascists. Ike is considered armed and dangerous and is linked to anti-fascists in England, France, and Russia. Do not try to apprehend alone, call the FBI.

http://twitter.com/benschwartz_/status/1267289696234696704
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Jun 01 12:07:43
http://twitter.com/sweeeetdee_/status/1267319103167107072

another fool under the sway of putin apprehended.
thank god.
murika is safe once again.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Jun 01 12:18:16
http://twitter.com/tassagency_en/status/1267457794187419654

proof of ruskie interference
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Jun 01 12:42:24
http://twitter.com/jimmy_dore/status/1267468961945251842
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Mon Jun 01 12:44:54
^

oopsie,i dun screwed up!

Rebecca Kavanagh

@DrRJKavanagh
· 5h
Just a heads up, the video trending right now purporting to show police arresting an undercover FBI agent is a year old and the man being arrested is not an FBI agent.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Jun 02 00:29:27
"another fool under the sway of putin apprehended."

Funny, but he's at least trying to heal divides rather than encourage more divide.

..
"^
oopsie,"

Imagine the damage done to people who didn't bother fact-checking that.. and the fresh comments still refusing to believe all the evidence being presented show more damage still being done... It's meme logic: it embeds itself in the consciousness and provokes an innate replication response. People share it without taking the 5 minutes that it would take to dispel the manipulation. Meanwhile, that video (from about 2 years ago) has been reported on, re-posted to Youtube, and re-disseminated to take advantage of the current racial tensions, with trolls and race-baiters disregarding the truth of its context to make the meme point that "he was profiled for his color. Let's all stay focused now" — i.e., no concern for context; if it fits the current narrative, it replicates and stokes tension (From Reuters, below: "An Instagram user claiming to be the source of the video said that he chose to share the video at this time because the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis had stoked racial tensions around the country"). Sock Puppets/Trolls take advantage of this, and useful idiots follow suit.

Examples of its replication:
(All fresh re-posts of the old video, released 2019 and filmed in about 2018)
• "Black FBI agent arrested by white police officers, see what happens at the end." [June 1, 2020] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr1WwyKDFQs
• "WATCH: Does Viral Video Show Minnesota Police Arresting an FBI Agent by Mistake?" [Heavy; June 1, 2020] http://heavy.com/news/2020/06/did-police-arrest-fbi-agent-by-mistake/
• "Racial profiling or mistaken identity? RPD faces backlash over viral video" [MedCityBeat; June 1, 2020] http://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2020/rochester-police-racial-profiling-incident
• "The moment when they realised they just attempted to arrest an FBI agent..." [Twitter user Nics Monique; June 1, 2020] http://twitter.com/NicsMonique/status/1267387845469245440

But corrected here:
• "Fact check: Man detained in Rochester, Minnesota is not an FBI agent" [Reuters, June 1, 2020] http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-minnesota-detained-fbi/fact-check-man-detained-in-rochester-minnesota-is-not-an-fbi-agent-idUSKBN2383Q9
The Children
Member
Tue Jun 02 00:39:00
imagine being this far off the brainwash scale.

woman u have been complete brainwashed by hogwash american propaganda.


Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Jun 02 00:43:34
That's super productive, TC. Just call it brainwashing but do not directly challenge any of it with facts — because you have no facts to support your position.
sam adams
Member
Wed Jun 03 13:54:51
Kieth eilsonn, a deep blue democrat with extremist left children, gets involved and upgrades charges and charges others. Giving this all the appearance of political BS and making it exponentially more likely to get an acquital.

What a fucking retard.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Jun 03 14:12:22
He will thereby ensure a not guilty verdict, because fudd jurors will focus on intent.

Good job, retard
Rugian
Member
Wed Jun 03 14:43:03
Yep, nice one moron. Plus the police union intends to appeal to have the fired cops reinstated.

I give it a 20% chance that these guys get acquitted and end up back on the force with back pay.
The Children
Member
Wed Jun 03 15:00:48
the brainwash is stronk with u woman.

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