Utopia Talk / Politics / Who is Antifa?

Habebe Member	Thu Jun 11 08:06:41 They're militant communists. They are anti capitalist and anti facist, atleast in there inception as a branch of the KPD, the German Communist party. Nuff said.
Paramount Member	Thu Jun 11 08:31:48 Antifa in the 1940’s http://images.app.goo.gl/abqAsobh6Q34LMQb9
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 11 08:46:59 If given the choice between a Nazi and communist, I'm not siding with the communist.
Rugian Member	Thu Jun 11 09:38:25 The Italian Red Brigades were also self-styled anti-fascists. Does Paramount support them as well?
Paramount Member	Thu Jun 11 10:17:04 I’m not familiar with the Italian Red Brigades or with Aldo Moro. But a quick googling says that Aldo Moro led a centrist-left government. So it seems that he wasn’t a fascist or a dictator. Therefore I can not support the Red Brigades. If they were instead fighting against a fascist dictatorship then perhaps I would support their struggle.
hood Member	Thu Jun 11 10:19:25 "If given the choice between a Nazi and communist, I'm not siding with the communist." Yes, we already know you're a nazi.
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 11 10:24:19 No, but Facists, even Nazis are less horrible than commies. Although not all communists are equal, ive always felt Cuba was the least horrible of the scum. Im sure you would fit in with the reds no problem.
hood Member	Thu Jun 11 10:30:18 What insanity has the world come to when people are so blind as to actually believe commies are worse than nazis. You know what happened when commies were in power? Everyone stared at each other. You know what happened when Nazis were in power? They tried to take over the world. Mean glares > a knife in your throat in hot nazi jr's land.
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 11 10:47:55 The Nazis at least did good for most of there people. The commies murdered others and even there own. Stalin killed his own pet parrot. Hitler was an animal rights activist. That says a lot about character, Hitler had at least something redeemable about him.
Dukhat Member	Thu Jun 11 10:49:02 lol stupid convo
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 11 10:52:30 Meh, bored, and sort of deliriously tired at the same time.
Forwyn Member	Thu Jun 11 11:23:20 "They tried to take over the world." Lol did you forget the Warsaw Pact and Communist revolutions all over the world?
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Jun 11 11:51:37 Hey Retard Rod 2.0, I hope you have a great day!
hood Member	Thu Jun 11 12:34:26 So revolutions against the elite that, for most puppies, stayed within borders, is now the same as actually, literally, trying to conquer everything? Consider: the Nazis were so bad that the allies teamed up with the commies to eliminate Nazis. It wasn't because they were blind to Russian communism.
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 11 18:50:45 Well, Keep in mind far was pretty much a communist and definitley a warmonger. I think we can all agree that he instigated US intervention into a war that the US populace wanted no parts of. Now whether you agree that was a good thing in the end or not is a seperate issue.
Pillz Member	Thu Jun 11 18:58:49 Hood approaches WW2 with the nuance and insight you'd expect from a rock.
hood Member	Thu Jun 11 21:12:56 "Well, Keep in mind far was pretty much a communist and definitley a warmonger." Spoken like a Hitler's youth. "Pillz" I don't waste any effort on people who cannot understand basic english.
obaminated Member	Thu Jun 11 22:03:06 the only good antifa is a dead antifa.
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 11 22:20:51 Hood, "far" should have been FDR.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sun Jun 14 11:21:39 http://www...f91?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot
Habebe Member	Sun Jun 14 11:26:37 It never says what the cops said to the guy when he said he was armed and going to confront them.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Tue Jun 16 13:49:46 Suspected cop killer charged in fatal shooting of Oakland security guard, linked to right-wing extremist group http://www...p-killer-Millbrae-15343978.php
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 16 14:01:46 You know what's odd, if there was anything that would bring extremists together like BLM and the gun/bunker folks it should be a mutual hatred of the current police state.
McKobb Member	Tue Jun 16 16:35:08 I dont know about yall, but I've never seen an antifa.
Seb Member	Tue Jun 16 16:48:46 "If given the choice between a Nazi and communist, I'm not siding with the communist." A literal Quisling!
Seb Member	Tue Jun 16 16:50:00 "No, but Facists, even Nazis are less horrible than commies." Whats this, Auschwitz was better than the Gulags bullshit?
Forwyn Member	Tue Jun 16 17:10:45 "linked to right-wing extremist group" Paywall trash, but I assume it's because he scrawled, "boog" on a car during the chase. Boogin' aint exclusively right-wing
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 16 17:27:00 Seb, Do you know what a quisling is? Because it doesn't seem to fit the statement. Is siblicide worse than killing a stranger? I beleive so. Nazis killed the enemy and did good by there own. They were brutal and not saints however Stalin killed his own people. Something like 21 million people he starved to death, his own people. The Nazis did some horrible things, and some great things. They started the endangered species list for example.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 16 17:34:28 Even Pinochet, as better than communists. This is a man who actually transitioned from Dictatorship to a republic. Also now one of if not the best economy in SA because of him. Compare Chile and Venezuela, thats the difference between Facism and communism. Ffs Venezuela is loaded with oil.and is still such a shit hole.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Jun 16 17:43:27 Communism was only horrible when applied to the real world, it couldn't be done, it always turned into a disaster. You are a fool if you insist we should do it again. Nazism on the other hand is disaster on paper and in theory, you are are a special kind of sociopath we have a specific name* for if you try to apply it. *a nazi.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 16 17:50:55 Nazism worked though, until they needed to loot to keep funding it. The poor treatment of undesirables was the worst part of Nazism. The poor treatment of everyone is the worst part of communism.
chuck Member	Tue Jun 16 18:04:57 Some very good people on both sides in this thread. Absolutely nobody: *crickets* Habebe on 7/11: You know, I'd rather be a Nazi. Than a commie, I mean. Y'know what I mean? Since I have to choose. Habebe on 7/16: I mean, really, Pinochet was a pretty great guy if you think about it. Really dynamic economy! Habebe on 7/18: Nazism worked though. --- How fucked does your life have to find yourself permanently living at your parents' house and rationalizing being a closet Nazi?
hood Member	Tue Jun 16 18:16:33 point of note: it is June, not July.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 16 18:18:18 So Pinochet is a Nazi too now? A US backed Nazi supposedly. Also I own my own home, two technically since I still own the place in S Philly, although ot hasnr been lived in for a while, pretty much storage ATM.
chuck Member	Tue Jun 16 18:24:07 True. It's been a busy couple of months. Time flies when you're reading communist agitprop, perpetuating the coronavirus myth and just generally being a no good race traitor.
chuck Member	Tue Jun 16 18:30:32 > Also I own my own home, two technically since I still own the place in S Philly, although ot hasnr been lived in for a while, pretty much storage ATM. Sure was nice of your parents to sign the deed over to you.
sam adams Member	Tue Jun 16 18:32:23 Saying nazism is better than communism is hardly rationalizing it. Or vice versa. Its like asking is a child trafficker better or worse than a murderer.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Jun 16 18:44:49 "Nazism worked though, until they needed to loot to keep funding it." lol what? The entire ideology was predicated on invading and looting. To use the loot to finance the further invasions and looting etc. It worked if by work you mean the physical destruction of the entire political elite, the Nazi party, the country and surrounding countries. Worked great.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Jun 16 18:59:28 habebe is talking about Nazism was this great idea that went wrong and that ethnic cleansing, anti-semitism, anti-capitalism (just like the communists) and expansion through war were not the very core of Mein Kampf.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 16 20:27:42 Nimatzo, a little drunk ATM, so bear with me. Yes, it was based heavily on taking shit from others by force and then dispersing it to the people. Its not some "great idea" as much as a practical and brutal way to fix what was a broken nation at the time. To put it into context, due to the treaty of Versailles. Germany was technically the poorest nation on earth at the time. Facism came in and said , yeah we don't owe you shit and were going to meld government and private businesses in certain areas that are deemed vital. To keep on expandinf they needed money, Nazism was IMO was pretty much a gang runnimg a country. They would conquer and loot to finance noble attempts such as loaning young couples money to get started. It reminds me of Casino describing Nicky's gambling method that was fail proof. When he won, he collected. When he lost, he didn't pay. He was the muscle after all. But in the end Facism in certain situations has some benefits. The goal is to be a republic/democracy. But most people agree that under certain circumstances authoritarian rule is preferred, Temporarily** even democracies have plans for martial law amd similar events for certain circumstances. For example during a pandemic, we suspend many freedoms, not abolish. But. Suspend. Pinochet is the best example. He went from Dictator to Senator for life and pocketed a few.million, so he isn't perfect but in one lifetime he went from communism (.allende) to free market Facism to a republic, stepping down willingly from dictator to senator for life is still quite an accomplishment. Kinda.drunk, really tired...gonna fall.asleep.now.
Forwyn Member	Tue Jun 16 20:28:25 "It worked if by work you mean the physical destruction of the entire political elite" Fantastic. Can we all go through a little Nazism stint, sans world war and ethnic cleansing? Except the Turks Gas the Turks
sam adams Member	Tue Jun 16 20:41:44 "Except the Turks Gas the Turks" Lol
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Jun 16 21:39:03 "But in the end Facism in certain situations has some benefits." All the essays on the noble goals and "benefits in certain situations" of Communism have been written better than I could write them sober. The failure of Communism lies in the requirement of reducing freedom and liberty to temper a greedy and savage nature (and equally is miscalculating it). While Nazism equally reduced freedom and liberty (and was anti-capitalist), the ideology was based on the realization of that savage nature. There is no contest on the matters of moral principles. On the economic side, Nazism blew up, literally, to pieces while communism slowly bled out. It made communism last significantly longer and be more stable. The body count is higher for Communism for this reason as well, it lasted for much longer and was tested in many places. >>But in the end Facism in certain situations has some benefits. The goal is to be a republic/democracy. But most people agree that under certain circumstances authoritarian rule is preferred, Temporarily** even democracies have plans for martial law amd similar events for certain circumstances. For example during a pandemic, we suspend many freedoms, not abolish. But. Suspend.<< This would be lighting your house on fire, because sometimes it's cold and we need heat.
sam adams Member	Tue Jun 16 23:40:27 We need light!! The 6 suns have gone out!!! Burn the houses!!!
Dukhat Member	Tue Jun 16 23:46:12 The problem with Nazism is that it delegitimized a lot of worthwhile ideas. We definitely need to have stupid people stop having so many kids. Both the left and right agree on this. We could compromise and offer the poor voluntary infertility treatments so that they can be offered better educational and vocational opportunities. Same thing with communism. The state sucks at a lot of things but with proper checks and balances, it does lots of things better than the private market, especially when the private market naturally leads to monopolies as is the case in many industries such as utilities and healthcare. But the bogeyman word kills a discussion.
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 01:06:43 Dukhat Having as many stupid children as possible was a Nazi ideal. Soldiers for the front, young breeding mares to create new generations of soldiers for the front. The whole lebensraum concept was to allow for mass, small scale homesteading - which as we know - is a breeding ground for stupidity.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 17 01:46:58 Habebe: "Is siblicide worse than killing a stranger? I beleive so." So I guess you agree with Hitler that German disabled, gays and Jews - which he murdered in millions - weren't Germans because the were subhuman? I mean I get it: you think Stalin was worse because he didn't as explicitly dehumanise his victims first. Gross. Like eating your food without chewing. Yuck.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 17 01:49:08 This can't possibly be real. Epic trolling, but you took it too far and jumped the shark. Creative though!
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 03:32:56 Sammy Ray Bradbury? You have seriously read his old stuff? Colour me impressed.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 04:28:15 Well, I knew I wasn't making friends with that post. Nimatzo, Nazi economics is pretty much Socialism, while funding it largely from outside sources. So yes as it stood, it failed because the system if left as it was is unsustainable with out war, I'm not really arguing that, while they had a.steady supply of loot it worked. Like.I said pretty.much a criminal gang/mafia on a national scale. Now as for Facism "This would be lighting your house on fire, because sometimes it's cold and we need heat." No, and again I point to Chilean Facism. I use this as the example because its so rare for any dictator/king to give.up power and transition the nation into a republic. Plus the house wasnt burnt down. Its hard to argue that Chile and venezuela didnt go down drastically different paths and Chile's lead them to a better outcome. If you were to look at the two nations with no political lenses it would be baffling how Chile ended up light years ahead of Venezuela, it should be a much wealthier nation. Seb, I never said they we're not German, however the Nazis pretty much did, they said who they where amd who they were not and did wrong by those who they were.not in there eyes. Communism is expected to do wrong by the wealthy class, thats literally spelled out. But to then go and mass murder the people who support them and are " brethren" so to speak,is in my personal opinion worse. Now I suppose your opinion is different. A body is a body, but for me it echoes the comparison of Stalin mirdering his own parrot while Hitler treatwd his dogs well, especially well for the era. Yes he did horrible things in the context of a self defined " Us and them" mentality, im not defending it.But IMHO its mpre horrible to trwat ypur own with the same level of malice.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jun 17 06:08:18 Can’t throw in every other rightwing dictatorship just to make a point nazism > communism, because some sort of strong ”authority” is needed in a time of crisis. That is exactly like the burning house example. Pinochet was neither fascist nor fascist inspired, Peron (Argentina) was though. Pinochet was rightwing capitalist authoritarian. You should let this one go. I think you will have an easier time convincing the forums of the positive effects of meth use ;P
Seb Member	Wed Jun 17 06:24:18 Habebe: If you are saying they aren't brothers... "Didn't kill their own" becomes essentially meaningless. Stalin only killed people he thought traitors or the capitalist overclass, subversive etc... Not his own. That's clearly bullshit. Both Hitler and Stalin definitely killed their own people in droves.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 06:24:23 Nimatzo, Its funny you should bring that up.Apparently Meth is great for influenza h1n1. Im not super enthusiastic about proclaiming a turd to be slightly less horrible than a turd sandwich. I will still maintain my personal belief that nothing is lower than a communist in my eyes. I have one slight exception, I have a.less horrible view of Cuban communism than most other.forms I'm familiar with.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 06:29:58 Seb, Thays absolute bullshit amd you know it. Forget the gulags and look at the starvation he enforced. And it doesn't matter who I think as much as who.they.think.Its about intent. And again, this is not a universal truth, its my personal opinion** that preying upon your own , who ever one deems as that is worse than "them/others".
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jun 17 06:49:55 Habeb You miss the point. They both reconstructed the public in heirachies of value. In germany it was based on race and ideological acceptance and in the Soviets based on class and ideological acceptance. Yes, the intent of the Nazis was to conquer to world for the Germany people. The Communist wanted to subvert the world into a new global order. They would only kill people who resisted or who were not ammemable to ”reprogramming”. The germans took you as slaves or just killed you right on the spot, there was no attempt to turn people into ”germans”. One of the turds here has a few corn kernels in it.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 06:58:30 Nimatzo, Because I reject your premise that the Soviets were intent on helping people who fit into there ideological and class structures. They literally starved to death millions of there own supporters. Some will argue that this was am accidental side.effect.of poor agricultural planning and yet evem after they knew what they were doing they enforced it, that shows to me they had no love for even there own.
hood Member	Wed Jun 17 07:07:17 And people wonder why I don't bother arguing with all that much effort...
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 07:10:22 I doubt amyome wonders.
hood Member	Wed Jun 17 07:16:04 So you recognize that you're an irredeemable piece of shit who argues dishonestly and aren't actually worth the effort of detailed response? Then maybe don't whine and stamp your feet about it when people don't bother to engage with you seriously.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 08:05:03 Your taking Liberties with my statememt. Just because no one wonders about your motives does not mean we reach the same conclusion. I also couldn't care less anoit what you think of me, feel free to not engage with me all you like, I'd actually encourage it
Seb Member	Wed Jun 17 08:23:06 Habebe: Stalin did not think the kulaks were his people. He saw them as class traitors waiting to launch a counter revolution with the help of foreign enemies like the Whites did. The famines were specifically to liquidate these class enemies by death or disposession. Arguing whether this is better (no horror of industrialised killing and systematically kill every last one) or worse (killed many more people) than the Holocaust is absurd. But saying Stalin should have thought of them as his people because they were his ethnic group or nationality (actually they were largely Ukrainian) whereas Jews and Romanies weren't (while ethnically they weren't, by nationality many were, and that also ignores German liberals, gays and disabled), so Hitler is better, is to almost explicitly accept Hitler's insane ethnic value system. You pretty much have to be a Nazi to believe they are better than Communists, even explicitly the Soviets under Stalin (many other regimes were not as extreme as Stalin), because such relative judgements require accepting the core principles where the lives of some people are morally more valuable than others.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jun 17 09:15:12 Habebe It’s not ”my” premise, it is a matter of historical records. I didn’t say ”help” I said reprogram people to subvert the global (colonial) order. The fact that it in many ways produces the same results as other authoritarian ideologies is not a reflection on the source material, but the ends justifying the means thinking. Quite clearly the ”ends” for Communist and Nazis is different.
hood Member	Wed Jun 17 09:24:34 "Your taking Liberties with my statememt" Is this your first post here? Welcome, newcomer. Also, retardedly hypocritical to complain about "taking liberties" with what you said.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 09:56:12 Seb, No, your misunderstanding. I never once said nor implied he should think of them as his people due to any sort of genetic relation. His people would be the poorer classes, the peasants. He mass murdered and tortured the very people they were supposed to help. Im also not arguing that it's worse for everyone, but I am saying for me personally that does make it a bit worse such as the siblicide reference. Its horrible to brutally murder someone, I think we can all agree to that. To me personally to do that to your own family is a bit worse. I used Stalin since he was a contemporary, and so its a fair comparison. As I've said, I have a better view of say Castroism.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 17 10:08:39 Habebe: Yes, but the people he was trying to kill with the famines were people he explicitly thought of as *not* being the poor people he was trying to help, but a privileged land owning class that needed to be liquidated in order to bring about the workers paradise.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 10:15:43 Sen, But he also murdered many of the workers knowingly in order to do so. Its like when Escobar shot down a plane to kill one person.These famines effected something like 40 million people.So perhaps he was merely will to torture his people to death as lomg as it got rid of his enemies as well. This would be like Hitler sending an entire German state to CC just to kill the Jews from that state.
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 11:44:46 The famines were incidental genocide. The primary cause was agricultural exports to generate hard currencty in order to buy US heavy machinery (much of it agricultural machinery). It caused shortages in cities where a counter revolution would be a fucking huge problem. Failure to meet quotas was interpreted as direct sabotage, so workforces were mobilized and deputized to forcibly collect produce for the urban population. Shit went downhill from there.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 17 12:05:21 Habebe: Hitler lead his country into a West that destroyed it, refused to countenance surrender, and at the end ordered that Germany be destroyed for failing him. This whole "I'd be fascist before a communist" thing is utter bullshit.
hood Member	Wed Jun 17 12:09:57 It's not bullshit. He's that stupid.
Forwyn Member	Wed Jun 17 12:23:38 "refused to countenance surrender" Not really a point, when he lived through what happened last time
sam adams Member	Wed Jun 17 12:46:37 Sammy Ray Bradbury? Asimov, jergul
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 13:47:30 You are correct. "Nightfall". That is some fucking classic scifi. I read it back in the early 80s. It made an impression, despite my conflating authors (I was reading Ray and Isaac at about the same time).
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 18:31:11 Sen, At the end of the day, I will have my opinion ans you can have yours, I'm not trying to persuade you away from communism. For me? I can't foresee anything I'd side with a commie with. I literally find it repulsive.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 18:32:22 Well, maybe the oppression of aunt Jemima. But that's an extreme situation.
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 18:36:16 That is because you have no concept of what communism is. You are using the term interchangably with "Satan". Communism is ultimately just the endgame. A society where productivity has reduced individual workloads to near 0, but where the fruits of production are shared by everyone. In the meantime, ideologies that have communism as their desired endgoal call themselves socialist.
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 18:38:38 habebe What is your idea? Imagine a society with robots and shit. No one has to work because everthing is automated. What is your plan for distributing income?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jun 17 19:09:38 Jergul This is a tangent, but in the Expanse books it is mentioned that most people are unemployed on earth and receive some form of universal basic income. Only a small percentage of people with the highest abilities have actual careers. This is also theorized as the driver behind the overpopulation on earth. Basic expenses are taken care of, there is no career for children to interrupt and besides, what else are you going to do to provide meaning.
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 19:19:17 Nimi Expanse is too early in the timeline to be utopian communist. Not enough productivity yet. The dilemma with income distribution is that we use wealth accumulation to keep score. Whoever dies with the most toys wins. So income provides inherent meaning to tasks we set ourselves. Its silly really.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 19:21:11 Jergul, I don't know. I do support a negative income tax/ UBI currently.
jergul large member	Wed Jun 17 19:25:12 Habebe Another way of looking at it: Imagine infinite access to goods and services. What mechanism do you think should ration access to those infinite goods and services. (there is more than enough of everything for absolutely everyone. Should everyone have access to everything they want?).
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 17 19:36:43 Jergul, Im gonna sleep on it and get back to you tomorrow.
Nekran Member	Wed Jun 17 22:57:57 "Basic expenses are taken care of, there is no career for children to interrupt and besides, what else are you going to do to provide meaning." Anything you enjoy doing? I mean... kids or career? That's all you can think of? Really?
jergul large member	Thu Jun 18 03:07:49 Nekran He was providing a plot for a series of novels (I recall the books slightly differently. The series highlights basic allowance a bit differently). But yah. The silly bit is wages, wealth and income as a way of keeping score so we know who is winning. Particularly against the backdrop of once a decade bail outs keeping winners from going bankrupt.
jergul large member	Thu Jun 18 03:17:13 habebe The point is really that a communist endgame is perhaps one of the better outcomes we can hope for as productivity trends towards infinite. But this is something for the far future. That some of the various socialist regimes are fucking up in many ways and to various degrees is a different topic.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Jun 18 05:39:21 Nekran What Jergul said, but also: Entire (new) realities are nested within having a career (meaningful job) and having children (raising new people with a partner). It's not all that there is, but it is difficult to find activities that cover as much ground. They are both social, they requires effort that rewards and you are providing/creating for others and in doing that you feel part of something bigger. That gives kids/career larger than life gravitas. Jergul I don't want to make it sound like the UBI of The Expanse was more than it was, it was assistance and the situation was mostly squalid. "Babytax" and license were in effect during the books to combat the problem.
jergul large member	Thu Jun 18 05:53:34 Nimi A novella about Amos gives some more detail. WoW and Eve Online are to my current knowledge the earliest and best examples of how alternate realities can match and surpass everything a career can provide save the paycheck.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Jun 18 06:18:28 I have not got that far, so go on?
jergul large member	Thu Jun 18 06:57:17 Nimi Well, as you can imagine as it is about Amos, it is pretty fucked up.
jergul large member	Thu Jun 18 06:57:56 (the novella is a prequel of sorts).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Jun 18 09:46:40 I really love that character, will have to look it up. Re wow/eve I can see a future where a couple is discussing at what game progression they should have kids :-) ”I think we should wait until one of has full epic gear.” If we transfer having a career IRL to having them in a virtual world, it will covers the same ground.
jergul large member	Thu Jun 18 15:41:35 habebe Have time to ponder the matter?
Habebe Member	Fri Jun 19 04:32:22 Jergul, On distributing infinite resources? It seems pointless since economics is a way to handle finite. But lets imagine the realistic future where automation/AI het rid of the need for most skilled labor and unskilled labor. I would personally adopt the idea.of a UBI/NIT. That I propose now just expanded. In the hopes that these people eould do something beneficial. Sort of applying Maslows Hierarchy of needs idea to things.
jergul large member	Fri Jun 19 05:01:10 habebe That is a failure of imagination. But I will chalk you down for wanting a rationing system. Certainly not a system based on merit since we are bailing out capitalists once every decade now.
Habebe Member	Fri Jun 19 06:11:39 There is a lot wrong with that statement. For starters you use the term Capitalist loosely.Many of the Corps. under the Obama bailouts were already partially government backed entities. But to be fair, everywhere pretty much has a mixed economy, on a spectrum. Btw, Im cool.with continuing this thread once.it reaches 100, but we should.probably rename it.
jergul large member	Fri Jun 19 09:19:56 Capitalist in sense of owning *and* controlling the means of production. Capitalism that fails once every decade pretty much meets Marx's thoughts in "Capitalism's inherent contradictions will inevitably lead to its demise". Its a dead man on life support that is currently used to funnel wealth from the public to privat individuals.
jergul large member	Fri Jun 19 09:50:37 Communism is not the inevitable outcome of this sequence btw. Its easy to imagine regression back into a semi-feudal state. The peasants in that case on perpetual religious sabaths (in Russia a full 2/3ds of the year were religious holidays under feudalism) and substenance farming replaced by a measly basic allowance. We have tons of threads now of what the feudal knights would look like. They even bear armour and shields :D.
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