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The current time is Thu Jul 02 17:50:29 2020

Utopia Talk / Politics / Foundation series is coming to TV
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jun 23 10:45:15
The greatest Sci Fi story is being made into TV. This could possibly be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgbPSA94Rqg
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 23 10:51:12
Sounds good.

That said I wasn't impressed by sliced bread.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jun 23 10:55:00
On 12 March 2020, Apple suspended production of the show in Ireland due to COVID-19.[3]

That's it, I'm with the freedumb people now.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jun 23 10:58:08
That's because you are too young to remember how many loafs of bread were smooshed together by dull knives. Marriages and families were destroyed, entire villages left dilapidated because of unsliced bread. You have been spoiled, now you just go into the stores and become dizzy by the dozens of different brands of sliced bread.
sam adams
Member
Tue Jun 23 10:59:26
Apple ewwww.

Looks like it will have sweet graphics though and i like the choice of actor for seldon. Legasov!
sam adams
Member
Tue Jun 23 11:07:48
Hopefully apple doesnt gay it up too much
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 23 11:11:45
Nimatzo, I am spoiled. That up in PA I went to taborah farms ( omg definitley check that place put) who sliced my bread.

Down here I have a Lidl grocery which will slice my bread for me.

This from the guy who refuses to accept burger to hand transmission of Covid.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 23 11:15:33
Yeah, I really dont like Apple much. They will likley sjw it up.

Apple: We've decided to go with a cast and crew entirely made up of transgender regugees of color.
The Children
Member
Tue Jun 23 11:17:50
it looks like CRAP

Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 23 11:22:15
Tc, Unsquint your eyes when you look.
The Children
Member
Tue Jun 23 11:23:57
u shittin me. so i looked it up just for giggles and shits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p09jnqHySZE

im sorry, its all SHIT.

Rugian
Member
Tue Jun 23 11:40:46
We've already had the Foundation series on TV for the last four years, with Trump as the Mule.
Seb
Member
Tue Jun 23 15:40:30
Either it will be amazing, or it will be utter shit. In part depending on how they cling to the original. Some of the middle ones were ropey on the characters and got by on the conceptual stuff as I remember (christ, just realised it's been 25 years since I read them). That's going to require rewrites.

But if it is shit, they can console themselves that azimov himself fucked it up when he made those dreadful robot/foundation crossover novels.

Rugian:

Lol no. Trump is the first empires last leader imploding.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 23 17:23:45
Well, I see no reason to not turn this thread into a general tv thread.

I seen the first season of Deadwood, really good.

Caught up on better call saul, I have a few episodes of season 5 to finish up, Id argue its probably the 2nd best prequel that I know.

Probably getting Adderall prescribed again tomorrow so, odds are Ill watch a lot less tv.
Rugian
Member
Tue Jun 23 18:22:49
Seb, you seriously don't see it?

A singular and enigmatic force of personality, who by sheer will manages to undo all the carefully-plotted projections and plans of those ruling over the galaxy's last post-imperial power?

A figure looked down upon by those around him as contemptible, repulsive, and pathetic, yet who manages to defeat all of his opponents and ultimately become the ruler of the known universe?

A divisive man, who is uniquely capable of instilling strong feelings of emotion in the minds of both his adherents and his enemies?

Hari Seldon's hologram is busy talking about how President Clinton is dealing with climate change, and meanwhile Trump is right outside winning a majority of the Electoral College. The entire ruling class is freaking out about how such a massive predictive error could have been made.

And now he is on the hunt after a so-called deep state, an alternative structure of governance led by figures so obscure that they are thought by many not to exist, but are nevertheless doggedly pursued by him day in and day out.

Trump is the Mule, right down to the lack of expression conveyed by his face.
Seb
Member
Tue Jun 23 18:46:02
Or he's just a populist that is tapping into the entirely predictable mass psychological forces: a working population that's feeling dis-empowered having not had a wage raise in 30 years itself a consequence of a toxic combination of small-government combined with globalism at the time amid disquiet over America's eroding leadership in the world.

Seldon wouldn't need psycho-history to predict Maga. It's just standard imperial decadence and decline.

Trump isn't some genius subverting the emergent dynamics and taking it a new direction. He's just the manifestation of America's decline.

I mean, it's hardly like fin-de-cycle populist authoritarians with a penchant for minority bashing and attributing all woes to foreigners are exactly new and unprecidented phenomenon.
Seb
Member
Wed Jun 24 01:26:05
Rugian, are you basically saying that trump convinced you to be all Maga, aaand without trump you'd feel very differently and have a completely different outlook?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jun 24 01:52:09
Seb
First of all, they were not crossovers, The Robot books where there own storyline until the 80’s when Asimov united them with Robots and Empire. Secondly the Robot books were among Asimovs best books, Caves of Steel and Robots of Dawn are fucking classics, all written as detective stories.

With that said the Foundation trilogy seems to be the starting point judging by the trailer.
Seb
Member
Wed Jun 24 03:01:11
Nim:

No, really?

The robot detective series was brilliant.
The foundation books were brilliant.

The last few books where he tried to join them together: awful.
Seb
Member
Wed Jun 24 03:04:57
I'm not sure why you say they weren't crossovers. Asimov decided to link the two series together relatively late on. Characters from one series, in another series. Crossover.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jun 24 03:45:39
Because he didn't crossover? A crossover is two different universes. Alien Vs Predator, that is a crossover, it gave rise to a new franchise, but Alien and Predator are still very much their own thing. With Robots and empire it was clear that this was not the case for the books. Even Before the unbification albeit mostly ambigious there are items and places that are mentioned in both series.

There is fan fiction that does crossover between Star Trek and Foundation and all kinds of things.

I am sad you feel this way about the unification, but Robots and Empire is consistently ranked as one of his best books (top 10). Which is, given the he wrote a million books, not a small achievement.
Seb
Member
Wed Jun 24 03:47:13
I'm looking forwards to the Iain M Banks adaptation that Prime TV are doing.

But what I really want to see is someone option cryptonomican and the Baroque Cycle. You could even use the gold and Enoch Root to help stitch it together.
Seb
Member
Wed Jun 24 04:09:34
Nim:

Alien v predator is a great example though. Never intended to be a single universe, then stitched together because of a few Easter eggs like an alien skull on the predator costume and a reference to wetland yutani.

Asimov didn't intend them, initially, to be the same universe. He decided to make them so, I think it was in a foreward to one of them explaining when he decided he wanted to turn them all into a future history.

There was more than one though. Or I may be confusing with the foundation prequels that were done by other authors after he died that further cemented the single universe approach.

Personally I thought it better when Susan Calvin and Harry Seldon were firmly different time lines. The Calvin shorts and the caves of steel and sequels were brilliant, as were the first few Foundation novels.

But the moment Gaia turned up I started to lose interest. Never been a big fan of the
everyone joins into a giant hive-mimd trope. Childhoods End particularly ruined it for me.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jun 24 07:32:31
Yes, but once the fusing was made, there was no Foundation universe and a Robot universe, the way we still have Aliens and Predator as their own stand alone thing as well as the crossover universe. Anyway, this isn't a very important thing to disagree over. For practical non nerd purposes they can easily be treated as different stories for the TV format.

I think it would be impossibly ambitious to cover both trilogies. From what I can see they start with the first Foundation book and Seldons judgment on Trantor. They have apparently changed the sex of some of the characters, which I don't care about one way or Another. Though I have to say I have a hard time seeing the mule as female, given that he is physical wimp, i.e breaks with the archetypical male antagonist. Turning him into a woman, sorta messes that up.

I think the Gaia stuff is part of the extended books. It's quite messy to remember, because they were published in one order, but chronologically they come in another order. Can't say I have a lot strong feelings about them or many memory at all, so probably not the best books.
jergul
large member
Wed Jun 24 15:00:08
Nice. I recently rebought most of Asimov (and read it, but that is hardly salient). Buffing kindle stats perhaps helped with indicating there might be a demand.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Jun 24 15:13:46
Im going to reread the books before the series is out. Looking forward to this and to the new Dune attempt
jergul
large member
Wed Jun 24 16:27:34
Wiki has a very useful suggestion for reading order. Note, I stuck to Asimov, not the fanfiction that followed.
Seb
Member
Wed Jun 24 16:51:22
So, nobody else thing Neal Stephensos's baroque cycle would make good TV?

jergul:

Looking at that list... my what a lot of fanfic.

Seb
Member
Wed Jun 24 16:57:42
Nim:

"hough I have to say I have a hard time seeing the mule as female, given that he is physical wimp, i.e breaks with the archetypical male antagonist. Turning him into a woman, sorta messes that up."

That is.. er.. yeah. I can't see that working well. Sounds like it runs the risk of becoming the stereotypical manipulative woman.

Bit like when Battlestar Galactica decided to retcon Admiral Cain into the jilted evil Lesbian in Razor.

Mind you the unassuming mastermind has also become a major trope in its own right. So has "surprise, you underestimated the woman". If they do it right though, I can see it sort of working.



Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jun 24 17:48:49
CR
Ohh that's right Dune :)

Seb
Just to be clear I have no idea if they have casted The Mule as a women, I just mentioned him as the only character I have a hard time see work as a woman. But, if done properly, like Mother managed to do or Sarah Kerrigan (Queen of Blades) in Star Craft, even Cersei. Though all of those share similarities as the corrupted mother nurturing her little psycho children to conquer the world. Such concepts do not lend themselves to The Mule, a sterile mutant who hates the galaxy because the galaxy couldn't stand how hideous he is - He is an incel.
jergul
large member
Thu Jun 25 05:07:21
Seb
It would make great tv.
Seb
Member
Thu Jun 25 11:21:23
Nim:

"He is an incel."
Lol. I suppose he is.
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