Utopia Talk / Politics / Separation of Church and State

patom Member	Tue Jul 07 04:35:21 my ass: http://www...ch-hosted-pence-031832590.html Now this does piss me off. None of these churches pay taxes.
Habebe Member	Tue Jul 07 05:20:09 How about this BS. http://youtu.be/RWTic9btP38
patom Member	Tue Jul 07 05:42:19 Habebe, that's Merica for ya. I'm betting that 90% of Louisianans don't realize the fucking they are getting.
Average Ameriacn Member	Tue Jul 07 05:48:51 Churches were hit hardest by the lockdown, no more gatherings were allowed. But still the pastors continued to pray for us and we could join them on TV or the internet. Without their prayers more than 100000 Americans might have died in this country from kung flue. But thanks to their spiritual support we survived and life can go on. Where do YOU want our tax money to go? To a church on our soil or to some abortion program in Africa?
patom Member	Tue Jul 07 07:21:18 I want them to contribute to the pot. My tax dollars go to maintain the highways that allow these churches parishioners to go to and from them. My taxes pay for the Fire dept.s that help protect them. The Police that protect them. The schools that teach their customers how to read and write. The least they can do is pay some property tax.
Rugian Member	Tue Jul 07 07:28:55 Patom The congregants pay all of those same taxes.
patom Member	Tue Jul 07 08:06:36 So do all the people who don't attend them churches.
Paramount Member	Tue Jul 07 08:33:40 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Dallas megachurch whose pastor has been a vocal supporter of President Donald Trump was approved for a forgivable loan worth $2 million to $5 million, according to long-awaited government data released on Monday. Vice President Mike Pence spoke at a rally last month at the First Baptist Church of Dallas, whose pastor, Robert Jeffress, has been on Trump's evangelical advisory board. - - I think the pastor is receiving those millions of tax payers money because he is a vocal support of Donald Trump
Paramount Member	Tue Jul 07 08:52:40 Habebe Member Tue Jul 07 05:20:09 How about this BS. http://youtu.be/RWTic9btP38 - - The people in Louisiana should be revolting.
Rugian Member	Tue Jul 07 08:56:32 patom Member Tue Jul 07 08:06:36 So do all the people who don't attend them churches. So what's your point then? You've collected the taxes from the individuals. What they do on a Sunday morning is none of your business. Besides, if anyone has violated the separation of church and state over the last few months, its the state governments which have banned congregations in many places in the country since March.
hood Member	Tue Jul 07 09:02:07 "What they do on a Sunday morning is none of your business." And is, coincidentally, not at all pertinent to the issue. "if anyone has violated the separation of church and state over the last few months" More blatant stupidity.
Rugian Member	Tue Jul 07 09:10:18 Hood Your background disqualifies you from participating in this debate.
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue Jul 07 09:12:13 Don't worry, Rugian. I'm sure baby Jesus will welcome your homophobic, racist soul into heaven with open arms and a cute baby giggle.
TJ Member	Tue Jul 07 09:57:52 Should all donations be taxed again? The list is considerable. It is an equal rights issue that would take an Amendment to the Constitution if enough take the same view, Tom. Good luck with getting that done. The U.S. Government is exceptional at spending your taxed dollars, eh? :D Of all the current issues presently the Country is contending with religious bodies would be the least important on my priority list if I were to have one.
Habebe Member	Tue Jul 07 10:59:28 What exactly is the issue? Just churches? Just churches that rake in over say a million?All religious places? All non profits?
patom Member	Wed Jul 08 04:02:43 Maybe all Churches or Religious institutions that are truly non profit.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 08 04:58:31 So something in the area of all religious orginizations that bring in say in excess of 2 million/year to pay taxes on anything not designated as charity? Probably not perfect for legislation but you get the gist.
patom Member	Wed Jul 08 08:02:12 Of course they will get tax breaks for deductions. Some of these Mega Churches rake in tons of money. Where it goes is another question. For instance the Catholic Church probably schooled almost half the population of some big eastern city metropolitan areas. They also run Hospitals all over the world. I'd be curious to see what Tammy and Jim Baker have spent on Hospitals and schools. I can remember them begging for money to buy a new car (limo) so they could get back and forth to their Church.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 08 08:11:43 There is a great south park episode about the church raising money to buy space ships to fight and convert the heathen aliens.
patom Member	Wed Jul 08 09:17:19 Years ago there was a Charlotte radio station that I would listen to when I picked up yarn in McAdenville. The DJ used to give running commentary on the PTL club and Jim and Tammy. One of my sister in laws former mother in law was dead for almost 6 months when she got a letter from Jerry Falwell's Church. Her son opened it and it stated that they had missed their monthly checks from her. That if she didn't resume them they couldn't guarantee her entry into Heaven. Her son sent them a letter, telling them that if the good lord didn't know that she had passed away 6 months ago then she probably got lost on the way to Heaven. Either that or they were collecting money for the wrong God.
TJ Member	Wed Jul 08 09:39:44 I'll say it again: The reasoning behind making churches tax-exempt and unburdened by IRS procedures stems from a First Amendment-based concern to prevent government involvement with religion. Any defense against religious freedom opens the door that would allow government to establish a religion. The old saying has validity. Be careful what you wish for because it could easily create consequences different than you imagine. I do know that in some states that churches are required to show that their donations to charity are equal or higher than they would be required to pay in federal, state, and sales taxes. You might want to reconsider opening that can of worms.
patom Member	Wed Jul 08 15:19:28 TJ
patom Member	Wed Jul 08 15:21:07 TJ Actually I wasn't thinking of income taxing the Churches. More like property taxes. They have vast property holdings worth a lot of money.
TJ Member	Wed Jul 08 15:31:22 I'm not exactly sure how many ways it needs to be said. Making churches and other religious organizations tax exempt is the cleanest way to avoid government entanglement with (and exercising undue influence over) religion, which is prohibited by the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…” As Chief Justice John Marshall stated back in 1819, “the power to tax involves the power to destroy.” Keeping churches tax exempt removes the temptation from government to interfere with the free exercise of religion, also guaranteed by the First Amendment. In 1970, the U.S. Supreme Court held that property tax exemptions for churches were in keeping with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. I realize you were specifically talking about property tax, Tom. Tax is tax.
TJ Member	Wed Jul 08 15:39:03 I should have added that only a minster is federally exempt from paying federal income tax. Anyone else hired by a church to do work for the church is federally taxed.
TJ Member	Wed Jul 08 15:42:18 Minister of any type*
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 08 21:31:48 "Either that or they were collecting money for the wrong God" Yeah, thats expected when they pray to a jew.
Forwyn Member	Wed Jul 08 21:49:19 If there's a tiny sliver of the Constitution you can expect leftists to give a shit about, it's MUHHHHHH CHURCH
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