Utopia Talk / Politics / Seb's dream come true

Dakyron Member	Mon Aug 03 11:48:37 http://www...te-of-disaster-intl/index.html "The premier of Victoria plunged the region into a "state of disaster" on Sunday, announcing even stricter lockdown measures, introducing a nightly curfew and banning virtually all trips outdoors after Australia's second largest state recorded 671 new infections in a single day. Daniel Andrews told Victorians at a news conference that "we have to do more, and we have to do more right now," as the state battles to contain a devastating coronavirus outbreak that had already stripped residents of their freedoms, livelihoods and social interactions and made it an outlier from the rest of the country. "Where you slept last night is where you'll need to stay for the next six weeks," Andrews said, announcing a curfew between 8 p.m. and 5 a.m. beginning Sunday evening and moving Metropolitan Melbourne into stage four lockdown measures. In that part of the state, only one person per household will be allowed to leave their homes once a day -- outside of curfew hours -- to pick up essential goods, and they must stay within a 5 kilometer radius of their home. Melburnians had already been under strict measures for most of July after the area was identified as the epicenter of Australia's second wave. The draconian new rules were spurred by more bleak Covid-19 figures. Seven new deaths were announced on Saturday, bringing the state's total to 123, and there have been 11,557 confirmed infections." 6 weeks where you are not even allowed to go outside. Also... http://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/asia/melbourne-coronavirus-lockdown-intl-hnk/index.html "Of the 191 new cases detected on Tuesday, 13 came from the nine public housing estates under a "hard lockdown." About 3,000 residents in the densely populated towers were suddenly put under a total lockdown on Saturday night, not allowed to leave their homes for any reason. So far, a total of 69 cases have been detected in these estates, and authorities aim to test every single resident."
Rugian Member	Mon Aug 03 11:55:12 This is dictionary definition authoritarianism.
Rugian Member	Mon Aug 03 11:59:06 "Adam Creighton @Adam_Creighton Aug 2 Shameful what's occurring in Victoria. Effective dictatorship declared. Devastating, destructive power of the state on full display. Respect for the individual clearly irrelevant. What's the point in being alive if you can't live?" Yep.
Hrothgar Member	Mon Aug 03 12:04:51 This is what has to happen to strongly slow a significantly contagious respiratory transmitted virus. The other options are a half assed "please do what is safe" proposition from the government which leads to what the USA is dealing with. Or to "completely ignore safety and go about life" option which would leave millions dead when you are talking about deaths from the sickness itself plus those who die of other problems that medical infrastructure can't handle. As long as the rules aren't going to be carried over after the pandemic this easily falls under the powers of the democratic governments to "promote the general Welfare" of a population as the US constitution phrases it.
Rugian Member	Mon Aug 03 12:09:28 Hrothgar Your proposal is to literally strip away peoples' rights for months or even years at a time. As Fauci says, Covid could potentially stick around forever. Are we supposed to just accept a perpetual loss of freedoms on a long-term basis?
Dakyron Member	Mon Aug 03 12:13:41 Hrothgar - They effectively told nearly 3,000 people that: 1) They are not allowed to leave their homes(for any reason), even to walk outside or to buy food. 2) They forcible tested everyone in the vicinity as a condition of regaining the ability to leave the house to buy food. This is in a country where they have 143 deaths from COVID. Mask wearing and a ban on large gatherings would prevent most transmission while allowing people to go about their lives.
Rugian Member	Tue Aug 04 11:14:39 SYDNEY: Australia's second-most populous state Victoria said on Tuesday (Aug 4) military personnel will be deployed to enforce COVID-19 isolation orders, with anyone caught in breach of those rules facing tough new fines. Five hundred military personnel will be deployed to the state to bolster enforcement of self-isolation orders, with fines of nearly A$5,000 (US$3,559) for breaching stay at home orders, said Victoria Premier Daniel Andrews. The only exemption will be for urgent medical care. "There is literally no reason for you to leave your home and if you were to leave your home and not be found there, you will have a very difficult time convincing Victoria police that you have a lawful reason," Andrews told reporters in Melbourne. Repeat offenders face a fine of up to A$20,000 (US$14,250), he said. http://www...rne-fine-outside-home-12987974
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 04 11:23:32 "As long as the rules aren't going to be carried over after the pandemic this easily falls under the powers of the democratic governments" "As long as Palpatine freely surrenders his emergency powers after we subdue the CIS, this easily falls under the powers of the Republic"
Dakyron Member	Tue Aug 04 16:46:26 " The other options are a half assed "please do what is safe" proposition from the government which leads to what the USA is dealing with. Or to "completely ignore safety and go about life" option which would leave millions dead when you are talking about deaths from the sickness itself plus those who die of other problems that medical infrastructure can't handle. " Again, even if everyone in the US got COVID-19, all of them, there would be ~1.65M deaths. (330M * 0.5% = 1,650,000). Which is unrealistic. More likely, 40% get COVID, resulting in 660K dead. In Australia, you are looking at a worst case scenario of about 50,000 COVID deaths, many of whom would have probably died anyway.
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