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Utopia Talk / Politics / lol@ny and cities in general
sam adams
Member
Wed Aug 05 15:15:53
Cuomo said on Tuesday that he speaks to the city's wealthiest residents 'every day', begging them to come back
Many fled for the Hamptons, upstate New York or Connecticut when the pandemic hit
In May, at least 420,000 of the city's wealthiest residents had fled the city
Their exodus was cemented when riots and looting tore through the city in June
Now, there are calls for higher taxes on the super wealthy to offset the projected $30billion deficit New York is facing over the next two years
Cuomo is resisting it, saying it will only drive the billionaires out of the city for good
He is furious that there remains no national plan to tackle COVID-19, and says the ongoing catastrophe in other states is holding New York back
Crime is up in New York City with a shocking 286% in robberies on the Upper East Side alone, shootings have gone up and arrests have halved
The NYPD lost $1billion from its budget in the wake of the BLM movement

http://www...e-save-city-Ill-buy-drink.html
Dakyron
Member
Wed Aug 05 15:17:57
Read today locally that violent crime was up 28% from last year.

NYC looks like its heading back to the shittiness of the 80s and 90s.
Rugian
Member
Wed Aug 05 15:29:39
And the victims of the surge in violent crime are of course going to primarily be black and Hispanic minorities. But as BLM supporters have repeatedly told us, *those* victims dont matter.
Rugian
Member
Wed Aug 05 15:34:46
And as for OP, New York is seriously fucked financially. Even before Covid, Cuomo was having to walk a tightrope between maintaining sane fiscal policy and catering to the state's progressives.

When your state is being run by people who call themselves democratic socialists and think that chasing Amazon out of town was a good thing, your days as a financial hub are numbered.
sam adams
Member
Wed Aug 05 16:50:51
Lol @ hood.

Saved 3 africans lives from getting shot by cops.

All it took was killing 700 different africans through increased crime.

Pillz
Member
Wed Aug 05 16:51:00
NYC will become the next Detroit. It'll take a few years, but definitely begins now.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Aug 05 17:17:39
This is where it shows how American-type union is the way to do it, not EU, apropos of nothing. Thera are shithole dirt poor states and they are subsidized by other states in the form of federal money transfers, like SS, Medicare and other programs. No need to pass new laws, to bail out states, like in EU. So worst come to worst, NY becomes a moocher state, like most of the red states, for example. Life goes on, I wouldn’t worry about financier industry not being able to survive. Maybe they’ll move to Mississippi
Rugian
Member
Wed Aug 05 17:36:56
CR

On the flip side, the federal government has a well-known history of refusing to bail out municipalities that go bankrupt. All the SS & Medicare transfers in the world can't save you if you turn your city into Detroit 2.0.
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 05 18:47:20
Well atleast coumo realizes there is a limit that the rich will take until they leave, some liberals don't comprehend this.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Aug 05 18:52:55
Sure, if the city allows capital flight that leads to NYC becoming anything like Detroit in its worst, then nothing will save them. The thing is NYC was not much better than Detroit, not that long ago. I first went to NYC in 93, there were many parts of manhattan you just didn’t go after dark, I’m not even talking about other boroughs. And 90s were nothing compared to NYC shithole of 80s and 70s. But, like in many American cities, crime just went down since then. This has nothing to do with current situation, I’m not drawing any parallels
Y2A
Member
Wed Aug 05 19:33:31
people on here don't know what the hell they are talking about.
Y2A
Member
Wed Aug 05 19:34:04
as usual
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Aug 05 21:22:32
I didn’t mean that 1993 nyc was like bad Detroit, sloppy writing. I wanted to say that NYC too was horribly criminal like Detroit but I meant iin 1970/80. And come to think of it, my crime claims from that visit are based entirely on anecdotal evidence, just from some people i socialized with. Disregard my last post please
sam adams
Member
Wed Aug 05 21:26:44
Lol y2a trying to defend nyc.
sam adams
Member
Wed Aug 05 21:30:28
Nyc was definetly a larger shithole when we were kids. It got better, reaching its peak under Giuliani, but was always a moderate shithole, as most cities are. It is certainly turning the corner and going back the wrong way now though.
Y2A
Member
Wed Aug 05 21:44:13
nyc is increasingly turning into a gated community for the super wealthy. the biggest issue in the city before covid was the never ending increasing cost of living due to gentrification. the one "good" thing that may come out of this is that rent will/may decrease as a result (at least in the short term).
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 05 21:58:22
CR, You were right. NYC was definitley rampant with violent crime in the 80s. Luckily abortion saved us by the 90s.

Your anecdotal evidence was dead on this time.

Y2a, Well, that is one of many reasons that NYC much like other cities has a housing problem.
sam adams
Member
Thu Aug 06 00:27:01
Ya, the jobs will also decrease.
Pillz
Member
Thu Aug 06 05:58:17
Y2A can't into cause and effect
Renzo Marquez
Member
Thu Aug 06 07:45:03
New Central Park 5 might rape Alvaro to death before we can put him in the FEMA camp.
Rugian
Member
Thu Aug 06 07:59:54
High rents are a function of having a neighborhood that you'd actually want to live in. By all means, if you're okay with the crime, drugs and decay that go with cheap rents, go for it.
Habebe
Member
Thu Aug 06 09:58:57
And rent control has its problems too, especially long term.
Dakyron
Member
Thu Aug 06 10:41:28
I was in NYC last year. Lots of construction. Lots of traffic. There were nice areas and then out of nowhere there was an absolute shithole looking block that you didn't want to walk down in broad daylight.

No idea why people pay sky-high rent to live there.
Dakyron
Member
Thu Aug 06 10:47:13
"High rents are a function of having a neighborhood that you'd actually want to live in. By all means, if you're okay with the crime, drugs and decay that go with cheap rents, go for it."

So... then Boston is 23% shittier than New York City?
Y2A
Member
Thu Aug 06 18:39:06
"High rents are a function of having a neighborhood that you'd actually want to live in. By all means, if you're okay with the crime, drugs and decay that go with cheap rents, go for it."

Being in the highest percentile of rents gets you a better neighborhood. The absolute value of rents is irrelevant. The point is that the median rent in NY gets you a shitty place.
Y2A
Member
Thu Aug 06 18:41:30
"No idea why people pay sky-high rent to live there."

high paying jobs, convivence of transport into manhattan, availability of women.
obaminated
Member
Thu Aug 06 18:51:19
Cuomo begs rich to come back so he can take their money, definitely knows how to incentivize them.
Y2A
Member
Thu Aug 06 18:56:09
I also want to add that a rental market like NY sucks for the professional worker. The demand is so high and supply so limited that the landlords have all the power. You end up with a ridiculous situation where useless brokers can get a 15% cut on an inflated rental price for doing nothing. If the demand takes a hit, it might have a positive benefit for working professionals who stay.
sam adams
Member
Thu Aug 06 19:24:48
Or.... heres a better idea...

Build more apartments?


But nope... you have chased away the developers and made that impossible with red tape.
Habebe
Member
Thu Aug 06 19:53:07
Well rent control os rampant in NYC and has led to slums that havnt been updated in decades.

The problem is you cant just I do rent control because it causes other problems.
Y2A
Member
Thu Aug 06 19:54:04
they do build apartment complexes but the only apartments that they build are ridiculous high priced luxury apartments that are even out of reach for many professionals (or leave you house/apartment poor). the ones that pop up seem to be exclusively designed for clown jr types that get everything from mom and dad and not for working professionals.

there are some other projects going on that could be promising. I know they are building up industry city in southern Brooklyn and trying to build a light rail to connect it to the rest of BK to then connect to get to manhattan. that will be a long time coming though.

with that said, Brooklyn brownstones aren't going to be coming down to build large apartment buildings any time soon.
sam adams
Member
Thu Aug 06 21:17:02
Well ya y2a... its not cheap to build new apartments with all the red tape and bureaucratic ineptitude, the high property taxes and the anti-owner politicians and laws.

So fewer are made, only for 5k a month, and no one can afford them.
Dakyron
Member
Fri Aug 07 10:15:51
"high paying jobs, convivence of transport into manhattan, availability of women. "

Convenience? Have you been in the city? Waiting two hours on a subway full of degenerates is not what I would call convenient.

High paying jobs won't matter if the CoL is that high. You end up with more disposable income living in some shitty midwest city.

"availability of women"

Homeless women? I mean, women exist everywhere, so this is just stupid.
Y2A
Member
Fri Aug 07 20:12:10
"Convenience? Have you been in the city? Waiting two hours on a subway full of degenerates is not what I would call convenient."

Dakyron, I live in NYC and know the tri-state area very well. If you have a job in the city commuting in from outside the city is a nightmare. It is better to live in NYC if you work in the city for the sake of your mental health (unless you are in Hoboken or Downtown JC and work in lower Manhattan).

"High paying jobs won't matter if the CoL is that high. You end up with more disposable income living in some shitty midwest city."

Depends on what you work in. There are high paying jobs that you would not be able to find in other areas of the US, enough to be able to keep up with the COL and save much more than you would be able to do outside NY.
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 07 20:21:22
Going from Philly to NYC was a pain in the ass, so I can see the convienience factor.

Also the George Washington toll was crazy over priced.
Forwyn
Member
Sat Aug 08 10:47:09
ctrl+f "gentrification"

y2a never fails to disappoint, though I expected hood this time
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Aug 10 00:36:29
[Habebe]: "Well atleast coumo realizes there is a limit that the rich will take until they leave, some liberals don't comprehend this."

It looks that way when you see some of these de-fund cities. Minneapolis' de-fund restructuring following riot-related mass business property destruction doesn't exactly make it an attractive city for businesses. Maybe it's still too early to tell, but how many of those businesses have any incentive to return when they can just collect the insurance and close shop for good? Businesses were already taking a hit due to COVID-19, so to then lose police protection, see increasing insurance rates, and have a city that condones the destruction... Yeah.

And it's difficult to say how much is just hot air election preparation. The U.S. gets crazy before elections, and neither of the big 2 parties have been above using mass death and unemployment to get their candidates a percentage point. Maybe U.S. politicians will pretend to be leaders again in January.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Aug 10 10:49:20
http://www...d-19?__twitter_impression=true

Good summary today, on what awaits the cities.
Dakyron
Member
Mon Aug 10 12:28:49
I found the article lazy and uninteresting.
Habebe
Member
Mon Aug 10 13:41:06
Cherub , Yeah, not even billionaires or even millionaires but jist regular small businesses like corner stores, laundromat, restaurants etc. These people are a chunk of the economic backbone mixed in with more service oriented businesses like contractors and such.

Or how about Bernie wants to take 60% of this year's earnings from billionaires.

Honestly, I'm conflicted. On thw one hand its a quick cash grab that would pay for medical care for millions.

However it sets a bad precedent, we want people like Bezos and especially Musk. This country pins an insane amount on Musk. Bezos though has revolutionized plenty himself.
Habebe
Member
Mon Aug 10 13:42:12
On the flip side you dont want to be Louisiana. They let corporations walk all over them and at the expense of its citizens.
Dakyron
Member
Mon Aug 10 16:44:01
"However it sets a bad precedent, we want people like Bezos"

Why? Bezos has over $30B. He could lose $25B tomorrow and still be wealthy enough to buy his own island and fleet of superyachts.

He is an evil piece of shit for keeping it all.
CrownRoyal
Member
Mon Aug 10 19:28:11
“I found the article lazy and uninteresting.“

You can’t imagine how disappointed I am, my man.
sam adams
Member
Mon Aug 10 22:27:29
Nyc going down more

NYC relocations accelerating at ‘substantial’ pace, local movers say

http://www...stantial-pace-local-movers-say
Y2A
Member
Mon Aug 10 22:37:06
I've considered it. have two elder parents in NJ and if we go long term remote i could see moving back to NJ. get rid of the city tax and could get a bigger space. thing is that the drop in prices in nyc is making me re-think that. that is the good side of having a drop in demand as oppose to the market we had before that only worked for landlords and slimeball middlemen/brokers.
Habebe
Member
Mon Aug 10 23:43:40
Dakyron, Well, first Bezos has MUCH more than that. As a matter of fact he has single days where he earned several times Oprahs networth.

Not really the point. Its a matter of how and when. If you want to increase taxes on them a few percent to increase revenues thats one thing.

60% will likley not be a one time deal, and even if it is they may think it wont be and could take those funds elsewhere.

More importantly, Bezos is a self made man who is has revolutionized several industries. Musks notoriety precedes him. These are the sort or people we want and we want as many of them as we can get.

On the same note why don't we take 60% of all Chinese assets in the US? We dont even like.them.

These guys may be assholes.for hoarding wealth. But they have also been a major net good for everyone.
Habebe
Member
Tue Aug 11 00:02:23
Not to mention that none of them actually made that money. The value of there stocks went up. Which means they would likley have to sell a bunch of shares which is a while can of worms in and od itself.
Habebe
Member
Tue Aug 11 00:02:24
Not to mention that none of them actually made that money. The value of there stocks went up. Which means they would likley have to sell a bunch of shares which is a while can of worms in and od itself.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 11 00:09:41
I've been looking at housing prices drop here too. It was getting to be a nice time for buyers until state officials started making plans to reopen schools. That has already started moving the market up a little because university students will be back in the area competing in the housing market. Now it's looking like the lowest prices were two or three weeks ago.

All fine and good until you think about how state officials were opening schools specifically to stabilize markets in the short term while ignoring the effects of exposing college students to the pandemic. And how will large quantities of college students be spending their time when restaurants only do takeout? *Studying*? ;D

..
[CrownRoyal]: "Good summary today, on what awaits the cities."

It seems like a "ball is in your court" article talking at city officials. Sort of a "Don't take your power and wealth for granted." Or, in the context of COVID-19: if the DNC and GOP keep playing this pre-election game of riot and pandemic destruction for polling numbers, the economic impact may be too big to fix when January rolls around. Five/Six months is a long way away, and by then the major urban flight will already have taken place. Attracting people back after violating public trust with mismanagement.. yeah.. ration those coffers.
smart dude
Member
Tue Aug 11 00:50:59
Gentrification is bad. White flight is bad. White people making conscious decisions about where to live is evil.

Maybe white people should just take a lesson from mosquitoes and never travel more than about 100 yards from where they were born. There you go. Sign it into law.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 11 02:01:51
"Gentrification is bad. White flight is bad. White people making conscious decisions about where to live is evil."

Is this one of those straw man arguments where you pretend that your straw man has multiple opinions that conflict with each other but when asked to prove whether or not the straw man is real it just ends up being a bunch of different people who said small versions of each of those points in different contexts but not, you know, some magical singular person who said all of them? Those have gotten popular as apocryphal memes.
sam adams
Member
Tue Aug 11 14:16:27
Gentrification is good
smart dude
Member
Wed Aug 12 04:11:06
I never said that it was the same people saying both things. The point is in either case your going to find people who think what you are doing is bad.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 12 04:33:21
It seems like a trivial observation and immaterial for 90% of issues, that someone will think it is a bad idea. People down vote puppu and kitten videos ffs. Monsters.
smart dude
Member
Wed Aug 12 05:26:43
I'm not talking about 90% of issues. Jesus Christ.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Aug 12 05:31:13
Sorry, on this issue as well. It is immaterial that some people think it is evil that white people move. What is the worst outcome from some people thinking this is evil? Angry op eds in the NY Times?
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