Utopia Talk / Politics / WHO: wuhan not origina of virus

The Children Member	Sat Aug 08 14:31:51 oops. http://www...wuhan_may_not_be_virus_origin/ then again, NO SURPRISES HERE. i been sayin it 4 months didnt i. i told u fuckers so, didnt i. anyone with half a brain knows.
The Children Member	Sat Aug 08 14:33:35 we was just da first 2 spot it and contain it due 2 own superior culture, discipline, knowledge, and our exp with sars 1. noone else did a crap. we was also da first 2 stop boeing junk from flyin. based on facts it just wasnt warranted. everyone else followed suit coz they know damn well china did the right thing.
Rugian Member	Sat Aug 08 14:59:17 So the Chinese affiliate organization is covering China's ass? Golly gee mister, that's quite the unexpected development there. Trump was 100% right to dump this organization.
Seb Member	Sun Aug 09 01:06:44 It's very similar to a bat virus found in a cave in South China. That's now established by Chinese researchers. It's not very likely that somehow this virus found its way outside of China, adapted it's host to humans, then was first identified in China. Rather than trying to pretend it was somehow emergent elsewhere, the thing to challenge is the premise that because a novel virus emerges in the borders of a state, it follows the state is responsible. That's crazy.
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 01:16:16 ah yes the who is a chinese affiliate. except it is not. 60% of workers in who is american, the organisation is from the un and it is lead by a ethiopian. REKTED! u idiots r swallowin 2 much bullcrap from ur fake government news. the virus found in the south china caves is a lie flatearthers. the researchers deliberately didnt tell u that the same virus was found not just in south china caves but all over vietnam and laos, its from bats livin in that area that didnt just include south china. oh and theres a 50 year evolution difference between that virus and corona today. so highly unlikely, unless u took it durin the vietnam war.
kargen Member	Sun Aug 09 01:34:14 "60% of workers in who is american, the organisation is from the un and it is lead by a ethiopian." gotta fix this. Should be 60% of workers in who is american, the organisation is from the un and it is lead by a ethiopian bought and paid for by the Chinese government.
Seb Member	Sun Aug 09 01:34:44 The Chinese researchers didn't tell us that the virus they found in the cave was found all around Laos, and it was a lie they found it in a cave in South China?
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 01:41:54 china, the source claimin it come from those caves r american, u stupid fucker. ur completely brainwashed by american fake news. also, corona is found in november in italy, france, spain and brazil. and march 2019 in barcelona. butbutbut it comes from chaaayna.
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 01:43:59 "The Chinese city of Wuhan may not be the origin of the novel coronavirus, senior UN health official Mike Ryan said on Monday" >> OOPS, ****MIKE RYAN*** a really ethiopian soundin name. hahaha idiots, when will u idiots stop listenin to fake american propaganda news and start listenin 2 real news.
Seb Member	Sun Aug 09 01:48:38 The children: No, its papers published by the Chinese researchers.
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 01:54:28 and even if it was chinese researchers, so what. theres a 50 year evolution gap between those bats and the current corona virus. so nice try, kid. read real news next time. it is proven and well documented that italy, spain and france already had corona since november 2019. italys strain doesnt come from china, also proven. barcelona may have had it in march 2019 also proven. mike ryan and who now believes it doesnt come from wuhan. but idiots on internet still tryin 2 claim otherwise rofl.
Paramount Member	Sun Aug 09 02:16:07 It came from the US. American sailors spread it to Spain, Italy and China, etc. Just like the ”Spanish flu” which was wrongfully named ”the Spanish flu” since that flu came from America as well, brought to Europe by American sailors.
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 02:17:43 agreed, thats why they pulled out the who becoz WHO culd expose them if they started investigation. so they pulled out and now everything WHO says is becoz they r a "china affiliated" organisation lololol.
Average Ameriacn Member	Sun Aug 09 04:03:38 CHINESE VIRUS Why don't you get it? CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS CHINESE VIRUS
Seb Member	Sun Aug 09 05:32:25 The children: The idea that there's another source significantly distant from the bat caves is kinda silly. I can maybe buy wider south East Asia. But "50 years" is a rather vague idea. Evolution doesn't work like that, that means "mean time to change", but actual evolution can occur sporadically in jumps. I.e. the mean time to roll a six on a dice might be some number of rolls, that doesn't mean you can't roll a 6 on your second try. But what it does mean is that it can't have come from the US. The virus from the bat cave is a very very recent ancestor of covid 19. Convergent evolution can't explain it e.g. going to America and then coming back. But part of the reason they go to these caves to find novel viruses is because they are remote with lots of viruses that haven't been identified more widely. So again it seems unlikely that it's from somewhere very far away. The precise location is kinda silly anyway. It would only be an issue if the lab was responsible for release, or had modified the virus. Both are possible, but no strong evidence to suggest so.
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 06:16:20 how much u r suckin up 2 deepstate propaganda is truly frightenin. it is PROVEN by Italy, Spain, France and Brazil that they had corona since november 2019. These r independant states that chose 2 do some tests just 2 see if they had corona or not. they were not paid by China 2 talk shit about themselves, u stupid idiot. if they themselves are saying they had corona since november 2019. Who the fuck are u 2 keep parrotin cold war propaganda and bullshit. " can maybe buy wider south East Asia. But "50 years" is a rather vague idea. Evolution doesn't work like that, that means "mean time to change", but actual evolution can occur sporadically in jumps. " >> thats not what i am sayin, thats what all the world famous specialists and biologists and virologists are sayin. and yea they can calculate that shit usin biology and math. maybe that shit no longers means anything in da united states and united cockdum. but it matters everywhere else. science, bitch. u know what science is.
Hrothgar Member	Sun Aug 09 06:40:30 "we was just da first 2 spot it and contain it due 2 own superior culture, discipline, knowledge, and our exp with sars 1." Obviously a ridiculous statement considering that any outbreak of this virus causes an obvious surge in hospital admissions with serious respiratory issues. Which is precisely how doctors in Wuhan started getting a hunch something new was going on. Claiming the outbreak started anywhere else besides the Wuhan general region is silly. While it could be argued the wet market directly in Wuhan isn't the original culprit, it obviously made it's jump to humans somewhere in the general area. Otherwise the hospitalization spike would have been noticed in other places first.
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 07:28:33 but there was, wasnt there. there already was a huge spike of socalled "fly and mysterious vapin disease" in ur country before any other country had any surge. u were just hidin it under the flu, under "mysterious vapin" either deliberately or genuinely clueless about it. make no mistake, kid. u r in the wrong here.
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 07:58:21 Seb, Having a disease that organically popped up while practicing reasonable behaviours shouldn't be blamed on a nation. However, if for example due to US factory farms a new virs came out and we arrest then whistleblower and Cover it up while it spreads, would the US not be at fault? And as bad as US FFs are, the big difference is that they do not routinely mix in wild higher risk animals which just adds another layer of irresponsible behaviour. This is not the first time that specific. Irresponsible behaviour has been called into question.
Seb Member	Sun Aug 09 12:36:25 Habebe: I think I've covered this above. Only point to add is that while the wet market is indicated as the source of the Wuhan cluster, it's not being suggested that it was the place where the disease first emerged in its current form. Rather it is thought to have recombined in a host (probably pangolin) and then infected humans at the market. N.b. there are other possibilities, but this is the one that implicates the market. Frim a liability point of view, this is very different to factory farming: factory farming creates the conditions to create novel multiply resistant bacteria and zoonotic diseases. The wet market is just a potential place humans might be exposed to such a virus, not a place that would create it.
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 13:50:55 Seb, Regardless, its a perfect storm to spread the disease. I'd say the liability is equal. They are both from a legal point of view what I would call crimimally negligent. We have had these arguments before. The one thing that sadly has not come away from this is a rethinking of Yes because they are dangerous.
The Children Member	Sun Aug 09 14:11:45 do u fuckers wanna get rekted? yea, just get rekted lmao http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-bXzCpRoNI&feature=emb_logo ^ PWNED PWNED OWNED!!! Now, we know whats gonna happen. these last 7 months have been nottin but u ownin urself. all them accusations and racism...now the WHO has felt the evidence is almost clear. China is innocent. so this fuckery is now on u. dunt 4get those shitfuckers aussies who demanded a china investigation when australia was one of the least affected by corona at that time. jezus, imagine ur cuckery and slavedom 2 the usa that u wuld show the world ur racism like that.
Seb Member	Sun Aug 09 15:05:35 Habebe: The fact the market (large crowded, indoors) is a good place to spread the disease isn't relevant. Could equally be a cinema and you have plenty of those. The negligence only comes from measures that make the diseases leap to humans now likely.
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 15:38:33 A cinema doesn't have unsanitary varieties of WILD animals packed into confined living conditions. That makes all the difference.
Seb Member	Sun Aug 09 18:07:21 Habebe: Right, but patient zero in the market is unlikely to have been an animal and if was, then that's also moot as the animal would have infected anyone who contacted it. The issue is killing and eating game. I understand you guys like your hunting, shooting and fishing. The argument that wet markets are bad is because they bring different living animals together with people, creating conditions for zoonotic transfer. Nobody believes zoonotic transfer occurred in the market itself. So the market is kinda irrelevant. Its just a place where people are crowded together and patient zero infected a bunch. Coulda been a cinema. Eating wild animals is relevant to zoonotic transfer. That's common place activity though. Chinese can give up eating wild animals when the US bans hunting, the French stop eating wild bore etc etc. As for factory farming, its literally the worse. Its responsible for all sorts of multiply resistant bacteria. Its just not a novel disease so less noticeable.
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 18:59:48 "Nobody believes zoonotic transfer occurred in the market itself." I don't know about that. As.a mattet of fact occums razor would say its likley. Your argument is that some guy walking around a half zoo half butcher shop market of rare and exotic game in unsanitary confined conditions probably got infected by a lanolin elsewhere.
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 19:02:51 Pangolin* This isn't a " US vs China" ordeal. I realize Yes are bad. I wouldnt say worse only because when was the last time a FF killed millions with a global pandemic? Not that its not possible, even plausible. But the fact that you thi k the one that
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 19:09:34 Damnit. Keeps sending too early. But the fact that you think the one which hasn't caused a pandemic is worse would be puzzling if your inner " They're just a misunderstood culture, ours is equally as bad" wasn't well known. Also, not all wild game is equally dangerous. There are reasons certain meat is taboo or not consumed. There is a reason that we don't cross.contaminate raw meats. So again yes. This followed by a cover up is bad behavior for any state.
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 19:13:07 This is nothing new. Here is a report from 2006. Summary: In Chinese wet-markets, unique epicenters for transmission of potential viral pathogens, new genes may be acquired or existing genes modified through various mechanisms such as genetic reassortment, recombination and mutation. The wet-markets, at closer proximity to humans, with high viral burden or strains of higher transmission efficiency, facilitate transmission of the viruses to humans. http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16940861/
Habebe Member	Sun Aug 09 19:21:04 As for your assumption that all game is equally dangerous. Thats not true, bats for example are especially dangerous for example. "A broad look at all viruses known to infect mammals suggests that bats are, indeed, more likely to carry unknown pathogens that can wreak havoc on humans" http://www...angerous-viruses-other-species
Forwyn Member	Sun Aug 09 22:16:31 Months after a massive media shutdown, wherein dozens of doctors and researchers go missing, Chinese state actors conveniently find a "similar" Coronavirus (AKA a member of a wide family, AKA you could check any bat in the fucking world and find a "similar" virus). And Seb eats it up Fucking lol
Habebe Member	Tue Aug 11 10:25:11 Ttt
The Children Member	Tue Aug 11 11:08:16 forwyn thinks he was readin real news. lmao. WHO: wuhan possibly not origin of virus. >>>>TTHHHHHIIIIISSSSSS motherfucker. THISSSSS is the only real news. Not this "doctoers" go missin. documents burned. fuckin idiot. if we burned documents, u wuldnt know about it, dumb fuck.
Habebe Member	Thu Aug 20 04:58:31 Tt
Seb Member	Thu Aug 20 05:36:22 Forwyn: Er, no. The similar bat disease is 98% similar, and found and identified in the Wuhan lab some years previously. Some estimate the possibility of that difference being closed by evolution is 50 years (though the process is stocastic, not deterministic, so this shouldn't be seen as impossible) That said, there have been incidents where researchers have been infected when collecting the sample and had to be quarantined. So options are: 1. The virus is the source as COVID19, and escaped from the lab, adapting in the local population. The lab is the source of the outbreak. 2. The virus was subject to various "gain of function experiments", resulting in the creation of COVID-19, and accidentally released from the lab. The lab is the source of the outbreak. 3. The virus infected a researcher on a sample collecting expedition, was brought back to wuhan, circulated in Wuhan, gaining the additional features and becoming Covid 19. 4. Covid-19 evolved in or around the caves where the virus was sampled from naturally, and infected someone collecting samples and brought it back to whuan, as per 3. 5. Covid-19 evolved in or around the caves, and was brought to wuhan through some other process. 1,2 require a cover up that is possible, but also potentially less likely than 3 or 4. Particularly the gain of function research. 5 seems a bit ridiculous.
Seb Member	Thu Aug 20 06:06:13 Forwyn: Oh, yeah, there is also the "6. the virus evolved in wuhan market because a bat and a pangolin were too close together", china should ban wet markets. That's highly unlikely. a. The market doesn't sell bats. b. If the market did sell bats, it would be really fucking odd that they got a bat from those caves. c. It would be a heck of a coincidence if a bat from another location had a virus found in the cave wuhuan lab sampled, that looks so similar to covid, but has not been found elsewhere. To the broader point about markets with live wild animals being mixed together, yes, it's bad. But so is eating wild animals, being in contact with wild animals for precisely the same reasons. And the worst thing in the world is feeding antibiotic en mass to animals in our food chain.
The Children Member	Thu Aug 20 10:40:53 face some facts man. it doesnt come from China. Italy, Span, Brazil, France has confirmed this. this isnt some labcoater who accidentally spoiled some samples. this is 4 different countries we talkin about, kid. when 4 different countries each tell u the same thing, its real! face some facts, be a man 4 cryin out loud. stop ur whining.
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