Utopia Talk / Politics / Navalny and Nord Stream 2

Paramount Member	Thu Sep 03 13:27:34 The USA has been trying to sabotage the Nord Stream 2 for a long time. So, did the USA poison Navalny to make Germany and EU scrap the Nord Stream 2? I think so. Russia has really not anything to gain by poisoning Navalny. Navalny is not that big of a threat to Putin. I mean, he might by annoying but not more than that. The US though, it is in their interest to make EU scrap Nord Stream 2, and so the USA is willing to murder for it. Merkel pressured to end Nord Stream 2 support after Navalny poisoning http://www...upport-after-navalny-poisoning
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 03 13:51:18 Google ”the chain murders”. The moral of the story is that repressive structure that are large enough and highly institutionalized, the people on the top do not have to order every murder, torture and disappearing. Things take care of themselves.
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 03 13:52:14 If it is I applaud my government, CIA? Its a bitnof a stretch though. Possible though. Why would they think Russia poisoning this guy would put pressure on NS2 though? It would have to be 3 part. 1. Poisoning someone while pinning it on Putin successfully. 2. Somehow pressuring people to get Russia to release him to Germany. 3. Fostering support for the idea to end NS2 over this. But lets work backwards. If your the CIA and ypur brainstorming on how to stop NS2 what would you suggest?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 03 13:55:05 With the chain murders specifically, the authorities actually captures the alleged culprits, tortured them (the interrogation videos leaked), their ”rogue” leader promptly commited suicide while custody of course, several others sentenced to death. Justice was served and everything.
Paramount Member	Thu Sep 03 13:57:18 Those 3 points are easy to achieve.
Paramount Member	Thu Sep 03 13:59:17 ”Chain murders Things take care of themselves.” It is possible. But I believe it was the USA this time.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 03 14:10:40 It’s too complicated, too many steps
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 03 14:57:26 Paramount, How would they go about 2 and 3? Im not saying they didnt do it, paet of me wants them to have done it, the motivation is definitely there. Putin has motivation too. He rules with a mix of admiration, love and fear. He has a brilliance in PR and domestic politics. He is no Trump, lacks the showmanship, but he can compensate with fear and delivering on reasserting Russia as a world power. They will fail though post oil.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Sep 03 16:32:38 jussie smollett
Paramount Member	Thu Sep 03 17:17:09 ” Paramount, How would they go about 2 and 3?” 2. If Russia did not poison him, they have no reason not to release him to Germany. But it does not matter where Navalny is, if he’s dead, or in a hospital in Russia or Germany. The objective was to poison him, blame Russia, and have the EU to scrap the Nord Stream 2 and put more sanctions on Russia. Poisoning him was easy, and they probably already had the (anti-Russian) support ready to go out in the media and say that NS2 must be scrapped. 3. Perhaps the people who are now suggesting to scrap NS2 are American agents. Spies. Or maybe the US somehow has managed to convince these people to support the US on this matter. Or maybe they have threatened these people with sanctions or something else. Maybe the US got dirt on them and are now blackmailing them.
Paramount Member	Thu Sep 03 17:31:17 ” “After the poisoning of Navalny we need a strong European answer, which Putin understands,” Röttgen said. “The EU should jointly decide to stop Nord Stream 2.” Wiki: When Russian state-run energy group Gazprom conducted an asset swap with its long-term German partner BASF, under which it increased its stake in Wingas, Röttgen raised concerns about the deal.[25] In his opinion, expanding Gazprom activities in Germany are "deepening our dependence on Russia."[25] In late 2015, Röttgen called for a review of the Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline, saying it was a "highly-political subject which carried the risk of splitting Europe" and may "contradict the aims of the agreed European energy policy."[26] So yeah, the people suggesting to scrap Nord Stream 2 are anti-Russians. Russophobics :)
Paramount Member	Thu Sep 03 17:32:34 Maybe Röttgen was recruited by the CIA at one point.
Habebe Member	Fri Sep 04 08:11:51 Paramount, Well thats what I was getting at. IF this was the US there alot of people who are either pawns or US agents. Btw, The US gets a lot of flack for fucking with the Saudis but what about the EU and Russia? How is that different? Like China I get, for a while we hoped they would become more liberal and now its hard to get along without them. It just goes to show that decency usually takes a back seat to economic interests.
The Children Member	Fri Sep 04 08:47:36 u dunt get shit. u constantly spy, sanction, force ur will on others, invade and destabilize, but only other countries r being accused of doing unruly things.
The Children Member	Fri Sep 04 08:54:07 medicalbillsaurus.
Daemon Member	Mon Sep 14 09:06:54 Swedes listen up: http://abc...lny-poisoned-novichok-72994331 BERLIN -- Specialist labs in France and Sweden have confirmed that Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned with the Soviet-era nerve agent Novichok, the German government said Monday. A German military laboratory previously found the substance in his samples. [...] Seibert wouldn’t identify the specialist French and Swedish labs. But the head of the Swedish Defence Research Agency, Asa Scott, told Swedish news agency TT: “We can confirm that we see the same results as the German laboratory, that is, that there is no doubt that it is about these substances.”
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Mon Sep 14 16:59:44 lol
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