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Utopia Talk / Politics / For just $0.76 you can help TC
habebe
Member
Sun Sep 06 13:22:56
http://www...una-in-Water-5-oz-Can/13398002

For someone who entertains us as much as he does, we can't continue to let him starve.
habebe
Member
Sun Sep 06 13:25:59
http://www...LimunbqM&imgdii=GoQaUwubgYmLxM

This is him fully grown.
superdude
Member
Sun Sep 06 13:29:39
Let the faggot starve!
habebe
Member
Mon Sep 07 13:02:08
ttt
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 07 13:25:38
Is it ever that funny to mock someone's poverty?
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 07 13:25:38
Is it ever that funny to mock someone's poverty?
Habebe
Member
Mon Sep 07 13:34:49
Seb, Yes.
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 07 14:39:07
Sign of poor character.
Habebe
Member
Mon Sep 07 14:41:24
But a good sense of humour.

Making fun of TC who routinely mocks thirs worlders and poverty is not the same of making fun of a homeless guy.
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 07 14:56:48
Habebe:

Why do you think he talks about third worlder and poverty so much? Could it be because these are the insults flung at him, and like you he is punching down to try and regain a sense of self worth by finding someone he can feel above?

There's no humour in it, just vicarious pleasure in not being that bad off.
Habebe
Member
Mon Sep 07 15:36:14
Is that why you call Sam a retard?

Is it ever funny to make fun of the mentally handicapped?
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 07 16:43:10
A few points:

1. Generally I don't use the term retard. I may do so occasionally. I prefer idiot, moron etc.

2. Likening someone who is being a fool to being mentally handicapped is not the same as mocking someone for being mentally handicapped.

3. Mocking someone for their circumstance is rather different than mocking their character or their reasoning.

If I genuinely thought Sam was mentally handicapped rather than a foolish braggart, I would not be engaging with him.
kargen
Member
Mon Sep 07 23:36:46
I'm thinking The Children gives as good as he takes. By this time I don't think any of us left have particularly thin skin.
Seb
Member
Tue Sep 08 01:40:44
Personal integrity is something you maintain for yourself, not on a transactional basis.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 08 02:52:11
Personal integrity is also something you define for yourself, few of us here have gone full retard on social justice ideology to let it intervene in how we flame idiots, morons, retards, assholes or TC.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 08 02:55:45
The funny thing is that seb, some years ago, made a thread like this for TC. How we could start a charity drive and collect cans of food for him. Striking similarity, mocking his poverty. It was part of your maturing process seb and none of us chastized you for it, now stop being a total gaytard and act like the gay dad of UP. Be the cool dad that teaches his son to punch.
TJ
Member
Tue Sep 08 10:13:42
Integrity isn't built upon something you gain when others are watching. I'd define a true sense of integrity is what you do when no one is watching.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 08 10:36:05
On a side note, I have regularly volunteered for salvation army usually collecting money ( I wear the hat notit the santa suit)

I've also worked with local church to get coats to poor people and I used steal packs of socks and underwear and t-shirts from ollies/Wal-Mart and give them to the homeless guys in the park.
Seb
Member
Tue Sep 08 18:27:33
Nim:

That's a flat out bare faced lie Nim. You've been doing that a lot lately, but this egregious. You should retract it, or prove it.

Habebe:
Good for you.

TJ:
That's the true test of it. But what you do when people are watching matters too.


Seb
Member
Tue Sep 08 18:30:56
"few of us here have gone full retard"

Most of you have gone full retard, period. You being a prime example.

There is nothing "SJW" about not mocking poverty, it is a pretty classic old school thing called manners.
TJ
Member
Tue Sep 08 19:46:55
Seb:

"But what you do when people are watching matters too."

I won't elaborate other than to say what people do when watching can be deceitful, as well as genuine.

A perfect example is in this thread.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 09 03:09:21
Seb
Not sure google has cached it, but if I find I will. 100% you made fun of TC in the same vein everyone has regarding his alleged poverty. Something about starting a food drive for him.

But of course finding evidence wouldn’t matter, as the case of homosexuality in the old testament. You will change the story, ”when I said X *of course* I didn’t mean X, I meant Y.”

Poverty isn’t something to make fun of, but TC’s *self inflicted* alleged poverty is hilarious and historically the source of great entertainment. If we take the TC avatar at face value, his poverty is a choice. He does not want to work, he is lazy and rather suck the government tit whining avout why he isn’t an elite level athlete or rock star. He went and shat outside the door of his boss, remember that story? lol :) good times.

Of course most of us (including you until now) understand the context of TC, but for some reason you decided to go full retard on this as well, because context doesn’t matter in this new era.

We can call it his character flaws as you have now given yourself a loop hole to make fun of people. Keep that in mind when I poke at the flaws in your character next time, before you incessantly whine about ad homs. ;-)
Seb
Member
Wed Sep 09 04:40:28
TC is a relative new comer (What a decade?). I quickly reached a conclusion that either he was a troll, or he was for real - when he started with his infamous Tuna Sandwich thread - and if we was for real I had no real desire to desire to do anything to add to his misery. When the big debate as to whether he was a multi happened, I said as much. And yes there are self-destructive behaviours he has too and I'm taking that into account. There is a point where banter gives way to flames, and flames gives way to simply bullying.

Having been bought up in a position of relative wealth, but with friends who have not since a very early age, and having the kind of father who both taught to punch but also taught basic decency of the old country shires / victorian gentleman type - mocking someone's genuine lack of circumstances has always been a no-no, particularly if you are well aware you are significantly better off than they are. You can also read that as patronising and patrician - and that's a fair comment.

I cannot exclude that I may have mocked TC before I clocked his circumstance, but if so I don't see how it could not be in the way you have described.

So I think you are mistaken. Again. I will accept at face value you clearly have a mistaken and strong enough memory to feel confident in making such a claim in such definitive terms.

That said, if I did, it is a shameful lapse that goes against the values I was raised with (and nothing to do with what you idiotically call "SJW" since your radicalisation into the culture war via cargo cult rationalism) and I apologise wholeheartedly.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 09 05:49:50
Seb
Whatever stories you have to tell yourself to make you sleep at night and feel like you are better than everyone else and consistent ethically or whatever else is fine with me. We all have rationalized our behavior.

"mocking someone's genuine lack of circumstances"

Would be mean, I don't think habebe is mocking TC because he has thinks he has a genuine lack of circumstances, but because it is TC (context). You clearly do not even remember the details of the Tuna thread. It wasn't canned Tuna, it was fresh Tuna, which is actually that bad. But in the vein of UP mockery, it became a symbol for TC and devolved into canned tuna for under a dollar. Like the fact that I was gay because I had a chihuahua or Sam Adams being a weather girl (psst he was never actually a weather girl and I am not as gay as people think). It's just that some posters (like TC) have been a never ending source of stupid. We had a list of the the stupid things TC had said, I may still have the txt file on my computer still somewhere.

"before I clocked his circumstance"

A subjective opinion, which you are entitled to. You have decided that TC's current circumstance isn't a choice and of his own making and that even if it is, you mocking wont help. Others have "clocked" it to be precisely those things and that the mockery is reciprocal.

You can apply your atomized view of people and posters when it you fancy and whine, but the fact is that the poster The Children is layers and layers of stupid and comedic posts and stories over many years. He has earned the mockery.

So, "Waaa mocking poverty is bad", falls flat because it lacks the context and years that led up to "lulz lets help TC so he doesn't starving".

P.S He isn't starving.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 09 06:24:39
Seb
Just look at this stupid psychoanalysis you did.

"Why do you think he talks about third worlder and poverty so much? Could it be because these are the insults flung at him, and like you he is punching down to try and regain a sense of self worth by finding someone he can feel above?"

Completely stripped of the context that TC was seen as a fool and mocked long before the Tuna thread and his alleged stories from work.

Apparently the blog is still up. You see the list of stupid thing TC said is from 2007. They were collected over several years.

http://upc...n-and-his-words-of-wisdom.html

If you atomize context, then nothing has any meaning beyond the literal.
Seb
Member
Wed Sep 09 06:55:20
Nim:

You misremember his thread - he was contrasting fresh tuna as a rare, noteworthy treat against canned.

You justify what you want to. I think it's pretty clear if TC isn't a remarkably persistent trolling effort his behaviours indicate bigger and more fundamental problems than a management consultants metrosexuality, and a racists thwarted ambition to be a meteorologist.

But in the same way we all thought it was a bit off when some people started attacking rugian about his dad's death, even though rugian is an absolute cunt, and let the individual concerned know it; I think "ha ha your poor" is a pretty shit way to engage with TCs general foolishness.

You are free to differ. I am free to judge and voice my judgement. And you are of course free to try and argue that such judgement is out of order (you are wrong) and even engage in your normal futile attempts to delegitimise the person you are engaging with.

It's a shame though you've become incapable of addressing the point instead, but it's the typical crutch for those who can't rely on argument and reason - you should have more confidence in yourself.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 09 07:48:11
"You misremember his thread - he was contrasting fresh tuna as a rare, noteworthy treat against canned."

The salient Point was the it is 1 part UP and 1 part, something that devolves over time, not usually based on 1 post or thread or characteristics.

"You justify what you want to."

I am in this regard no more special than you are.

"indicate bigger and more fundamental problems"

I agree, he has big and fundamental problems, introspection and self-criticism among them. None of those problems gives "poor" people or any other [insert protected Group] the right to behave like assholes. Same rules apply. I know quite a lot of financially misfortunate people, they are like everyone else, most of them are decent and good-natured people, some of them are assholes. There is thus no correlation between financial status and asshole behavior. It makes for a good story, that people behave like assholes, because people were mean to them. As a general effect, this is a myth. The overwhelming majority of people who are bullied for instance, do not bully other people. The overwhelming majority people who are poor are not assholes and do not rob, rape and murder. Clearly things are more complex.

So, excusing shitty behavior, with "they did it to him", is counter-productive and not even true as a general explanation.

"I think "ha ha your poor" is a pretty shit way to engage with TCs general foolishness."

Maybe, but no one said that and that would not even be funny. What was said was a direct reference to what you yourself remember as "the infamous tuna sandwich thread". An internal UP reference and joke that someone without the context wouldn't understand. That thread is a UP Classic, I believe he washed it all down with a Redbull.

"It's a shame though you've become incapable of addressing the point instead"

You really need to stop this shit, it has lost whatever meaning you think it had after successive exaggerated versions, INCAPABLE of addressing the points. I address every point you make worth addressing, and then I may or may not mock you. Take this post for instance, I addressed your points and did not mock you.
TJ
Member
Wed Sep 09 10:25:28
Who, knowingly or unknowingly, provides permission to humorously mock or be ridiculed?

Is there a huge difference in saying you're poor or generally foolish?

Did Hot Rod provide permission to be mocked and ridiculed? He was poor, disabled and near 90 years of age.

I think it is humorous that TC inadvertently has created a dispute between two intelligent individuals over integrity, ethics, mockery, and ridicule.
obaminated
Member
Wed Sep 09 10:36:28
This thread has been interesting
Seb
Member
Wed Sep 09 13:10:51
TJ:

Hot Rod and I cordially loathed eachother.

But you may recall that on several occasions (when it started) I voiced disapproval of lil Davey, and I intervened to get the shit post on his obit in the local press removed.

This is not unusual or out of character. I've always despised bullying, and comment when I think things move from flaming into that kind of behaviour. Appreciate people will have different thresholds. Despite nimatzo's recollection to the contrary.
TJ
Member
Wed Sep 09 13:54:07
Seb:

I wasn't pointing or accusing. My observation was simple. Moral soundness varies dramatically among individuals. I'll use myself as an example. I'm positive I've never labeled anyone as an idiot, moron, dumb or retard during my 20+ years posting in UP. If I was to do I'd consider it providing permission for others to reciprocate equally.

As you said yourself, that's the true test of it.(meaning intergity).
Seb
Member
Wed Sep 09 14:19:10
Fair enough. I guess what I was saying in reference to integrity in response to kargen is that some things - refraining from being cruel as opposed to banter/flame wars - I think is something one does for oneself because it conflicts with your values - not conditionally or out of reciprocity.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 10 04:47:40
Seb
It is not a good comparison, because "pedo rod" was not true. It was just frustration and the end of patience. The tuna sandwich thread is something that happened here on this board and many other of his character forming threads. The play devolved in several acts right in front of us. A play, because many times it beggered belief.

I am quite sure of my memory, because I remember thinking "heh even seb, who almost never engages in pure flaming". It's because TC is one of those *Characters*.

It doesn't matter though, because I would still disagree with you now. The thing is, I think many of us are still undecided if TC is 100% legit, to some extent that becomes an alibi to throw the mud. He keeps coming back, despite practically the entire forum either avoiding him or flaming him. There is no middle ground it seems. It is sufficiently ambiguous to make it feel consensual. Why do people do this? Why do two people decide to step into a ring and beat each other up? I have no idea, but it doesn't qualify as assault.

I never called Hotrod a pedo, I never doubted that Hot Rod and his stories were real. Like you I found it to be over a certain boundary and not funny. Likewise, I never engage in the "seb's wife's boyfriend" shit, these are expressions from people at their wits end, they are not funny and have no connection to the topics. I could see myself do a "seb's people", but probably because I am jealous.. *I* want to have a people :,(

I don't believe that when I address something you say, which I also find to be stupid/silly or moronic, that if I tell you those things, it is the same as frivolously calling you a cuck. That this makes me "incapabable" of addressing your points.

"I've always despised bullying"

Have you called habebe "hot rod 2.0" or something similar, I think you have compared them? I would consider that little phenomena currently going on, bully adjacent. Especially since it is a group activity. How many degrees of separation do you personal need, to feel OK saying something like that? Isn’t that ad hominem?

Personally I think malice matters. If I feel a poster is malicious and not communicating in good faith, that changes the equation for me. I can at that point decide I'm avoiding this, or I'm going to punch back. IMO both are perfectly OK strategies, we decide which fight we take and which one we avoid and that has something to do with our framework for integrity.

I think you have made it a bit too simple. You have directly and indirectly called me evil things (sexist and racist) in the past (not so much anymore), to my recollection I have only ever said you are some variation of stupid and uninformed. You can take a recent example of me and paramount. I have called him “Parody”, because the things he writes is, well, parody! So, he now calls me Nimnazio. Witty, but clearly a severe escalation and not in proportion to “Parody”.

TJ
"If I was to do I'd consider it providing permission for others to reciprocate equally."

Maybe, or just get into a long enough discussion with someone and you will feel the friction and people will take the liberty :)

Surely you and Jergul have felt the friction recently, because I have seen it. It has not devolved to the lowest levels, but I am not sure I remember you two ever this irritated with each other.

Though, funny enough at some point during this thread I was going to mention you as one of the few people I can think of who has never gotten into the mud slinging. Not sure I can think of anyone else.
jergul
large member
Thu Sep 10 05:49:46
"You can also read that as patronising and patrician - and that's a fair comment."

I was just thinking that :D.

The only thing I have mocked TC for is when he slips out of character. It does not happen very often.
TJ
Member
Thu Sep 10 09:45:34
Nim:

I said I "consider" it as a permission, not a prevention. It is exactly why I applied myself as an example expressing differences in moral soundness. How others express themselves is their business. I discarded such words from my vocabulary before beginning a family.
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 10 10:36:25
I'm an absolute cunt? When did that happen?

Anyway, Seb's on a roll in this thread. Essentially he is saying "I find TC to be so far beneath me that he isnt even worthy of criticism or ridicule." In a way, that's a far bigger insult than anything Habebe has said. "Patronising [sic] and patrician" doesnt even begin to cover his attitude here.

This is a prime example of how SJWs are actually the biggest bigots on the planet. Seb is using the classic SJW argument that "you cant make fun of people of xyz background, because by definition of their background they are automatically inferior to us." That's basically the 21st century version of the White Man's Burden, in which Seb's great-grandfathers were supposed to look down upon the poor savages of the world with pity and compassion.

He is welcome to continue engaging in soft bigotry and declare poor people as untermenchen that are not to he made fun of if he wants. The rest of us though will continue to judge TC as an individual and mock him accordingly.
Seb
Member
Thu Sep 10 13:05:39
Rugian:

I don't think him beneath me. I'm saying his behaviours I think aren't something suitable to mock.

If someone was dyslexic, or English as second language which they hadn't mastered, I wouldn't mock their spelling or grammar. In the latter case I would also give them broad license to say stupid things.

When it comes to some of the things he thinks, I'll criticise him. But I don't think it's fair to mock him for circumstance.

And yes, it may be patronising. Better that than actively cruel in my book.

""you cant make fun of people of xyz background, because by definition of their background they are automatically inferior to us."

This is the 21st century version of traditional middle class and upper class values for the last 200 years or so.

This is how far down the rabbit hole you guys have gone. If someone dropped you into the mid 19th century behaving as you do "because respect and manners is for SJWs" you'd be ostracised.

White man's burden is a philosophy that white men are racially superior and should therefore take on the burden of administration.

The 21st century version of that is you and Sam "blacks are all criminals" Adams.
Seb
Member
Thu Sep 10 13:06:42
"as an individual", as though being poor wasn't an individual characteristic.

Rugians brains got eaten by the alt right.
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 10 13:49:40
Rugian's brains, unlike Seb's, are capable of remembering that TC has been here a lot longer than ten years. In the Swirve days e used to roll with lingwe and other pro-China trolls, polluting threads left and right with their Sinophilia and proclaiming the imminent downfall of the US.

Back then he used to portray himself as being legitimately Chinese. It took Camaban and several other posters to get him to revise his story to being a British citizen.

If TC was just a normal guy who happened to fall on hard times, I'd guess that most people would lay off of him. But hes not that. Hes a troll who revels in starting confrontations. Trading insults is something he enjoys, and if he manages to get under someone's skin then mission accomplished. He flings back plenty, trust me.

If we're to believe his persona, he's also incredibly lazy when it comes to maintaining steady employment. Working to him is "wage slavery" and he therefore casts aspersions on it. His circumstances are very much a problem of his own making. MojoCujo used to have the same outlook and we used to constantly give him shit for it; no reason TC shouldn't be treated the same way. Lackadaisicalness is not a virtue.

Your outlook here seems to be "he's poor, therefore hes not suitable to mock." The rest of UP's outlook is "hes an asshole and he enjoys shit-flinging, so hes fair game." We interact with him based on his individuality, not his demography.

It's a shame you cant so the same.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 10 14:33:17
You are a total cunt, I believe this was established by the tribunal. 7 counts of cuntiness, 3 counts of general assholery and 4 counts of douchebaggery. Sentenced to exile on HO Island.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 11 09:50:13
Rugian:

Did he change handle? He was entirely off my radar until shortly before the tuna incident.

Lingwe I definitely remember.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 11 09:56:41
He may well be a troll. And yes, you can call me patronising and say I'm being worse. Just reminds me of a dyed in the wool Marxist who always manages to convince themselves its the West that if the source of all evil.
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