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Utopia Talk / Politics / Anti-vaxxer joy behar gets bluff called
habebe
Member
Fri Sep 11 17:07:01
http://www...apuy-story.html?outputType=amp

Hahaha
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 11 19:05:07
Ivanka is a fraud like her whole family so it would be a fake 'vaccine'
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 11 19:18:05
but most likely Ivanka would just back out... there's not going to be any vaccine before election anyway
smart dude
Member
Fri Sep 11 19:19:51
Uh she didn't call anyone's bluff. She didn't do anything. She just made a tweet.

And not wanting to take a vaccine rushed into production for political reasons doesnt make someone "anti-vaxxer"

Dude this is weak. You're usually better than this shit.
habebe
Member
Fri Sep 11 19:47:33
smart dude,

That is calling her bluff, now she can back out which would be failing to call it, but whatever semantics.

The term anti vaxxer is often used to describe a group of people who distrust vaccines because they think it's a conspiracy to poison them.

This is only different only in that joy thinks it's a conspiracy perpetrated by Trump and big pharma to just push through a vaccine because her logic is that polio took longer.

Its not a big difference from regular AVers.

"You're usually better than this shit."

Nonsense, I post plenty of garbage, did you see my thread on Canadian immigration?
smart dude
Member
Fri Sep 11 19:51:33
It's not "semantics," which is a word stupid people throw around instead of making a real argument. There is no vaccine and so there is no bluff to call and so forth. And Behar is not an anti-vaxxer (though she is annoying). Shes an anti-vaxxer because she is skeptical of a specific vaccine that doesnt even exist? Okay....
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Sep 11 20:26:50
One group views all vaccines as dangerous and capable of causing things like autism.

Another group is wary of a single vaccine because it is being tested at an accelerated rate and possibly pushed forward for political reasons. This is a vaccine where standard tests are probably being run in parallel (not in series, which is the norm) to save time. This is a vaccine for a virus that is part of a family for viruses that are well-known to have vaccine amplification issues. This is a vaccine where many experts have come out to say care needs to be taken with the rushed production and testing of this vaccine.

And Retard Rod 2.0 thinks these two groups of people are basically equivalent.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Sep 11 20:27:56
You may not like the name, but considering how often you post views like that...it fits. It fits very well.
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 11 21:34:08
Sd, Im not sure you understand what it means to call a bluff, but this is silly thing to argue...

Woo , Both groups mistrust a vaccine over unsubstantiated conspiracies. We have Christian and Islamic fundamentalists, doesn't mean one is any less crazy.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Sep 11 21:39:12
Uh, no...

Did you even see the bulk of my post? If you take away the potential political bit, there are still plenty of other reasons to be cautious at the very least.
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 11 21:43:55
Lets clarify if Obama eas in office and a vaccine came out under similar circumstances you would gargle it and swear everyone who didn't trust it was an alt right nut job.
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 11 21:44:35
You=joy
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Sep 11 21:53:39
It doesn't matter who is in office. A rushed vaccine with this virus is good reason to be wary FOR ALL THE FUCKING REASONS I MENTIONED. How goddamn hard is it for you to understand that?

I will evaluate their trial methodology and results when time comes.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Sep 11 21:54:43
And I don't give two fucks what this Joy person would do. It doesn't matter whether she thinks it's a Trump issue or not. Because it's really not. The result is still the same.
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 11 23:51:56
Woo, Ok but, you realize this thread is about her.

"I will evaluate their trial methodology and results when time comes"

As you should, follow the science.
hood
Member
Fri Sep 11 23:55:52
The number of times a trumptard uses the "if it was obama..." for something that would literally never happen under any circumstances except trump has got to be close to the number of atoms in the universe by now.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Sep 11 23:56:47
Yes, I'm aware it's about her. But for all the reasons I listed, she's still not necessarily AV. I know nothing about her, so I suppose she could be if she meets the actual definition of an AV nutjob.

But if it's only because she is wary of this vaccine being rushed, even if part of her reasoning is that Trump may be pushing for it to happen too early (honestly, a legit concern), that doesn't qualify her as AV. And by your own example, if she was fine with the vaccine if Obama was pushing it early, that proves she's not AV. I don't know why you gave a point that proved you were wrong, but hey, thanks.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 12 00:20:16
"Both groups mistrust a vaccine over unsubstantiated conspiracies"

it's actually quite substantiated

FDA rushed approval of convalescent plasma & also lied about the study results in Trump's 'this is the breakthrough we've been waiting for' BULLSHIT presser

...& that happened right after Trump accused them of being 'deep state' & holding up treatments

plus he couldn't make it more obvious he wants it rushed it for the election

Phase 3 trials are -supposed- to take a long time, he's not just 'cutting red tape' or other shit (although fucking moron -NEVER- acknowledges the point of taking a long time... efficacy & side effects)

so yeah, substantiation
Habebe
Member
Sat Sep 12 01:19:01
Woo , You have specific view of what an AV is, which admittedly is a loaded term, as there is a sect of people with generalized views about autism, often religious types that are called anti vaxxers. But the term is broader than just thos specific people.

And it is a little crazy to think there is this massive conspiracy comprising of notnjust the Trump team but everyone else that would need to be involved like the pharmaceutical companies ( multiple) the test subjects etc.

It COULD* be true. Its possible. But the same goes for Qannon, or hey thw laws of physics don't stop time from going backwards, but I doubt it.

That said you near is cook, his statement aside, your better off not knowing much about her.
Habebe
Member
Sat Sep 12 02:08:26
TW, There is evidence to be weary of all vaccines, hell, for that matter all medicine.But more than likely its not some huge conspiracy theory with nefarious motives.

http://apnews.com/619efb65b9eeec5650f011b960a152e9

And to you specifically TW, who goea on and on about how Trump for political/selfish motives pushes dangerous advice or BS ( not denying mind you) what about Kammala and hwr coming out claiming she wpuldnt take the vaccinne, which the traditional AV will jump on.

We live in a grey world, Trump as much as you want him to be isnt much different than his most of his opponents in being a pos.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 12 02:22:12
Kamala -only- said she wouldn't trust Trump (as is any sane person's view), but she -would- trust experts/scientists

you are repeating the misinformation team Trump is putting out that she had "anti-vaccine rhetoric"

for your own sake, start getting better sources
(& if Trump says something, it's false)
habebe
Member
Sat Sep 12 04:10:38
tw,

1. For a guy who routinely will say things about Trump " well you know what he meant" , lets face it, we all know what she meant. Which isIf a vaccine comes out before I can win an election , its dangerous. Trump does plenty of bad things too, like his mask stance, but this is wrong too on her.

She even said she would not trust scientists that Trump controls them ( conspiracy theories) and the truth will be muzzled.

She said she would trust Faucci finally. I'll link the video if you want to watch

http://www...6c-4336-9738-82e2435efe98.html
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sat Sep 12 11:04:57
I have a very specific, and correct view, of what AV is. Autism was just an example, retard. You do understand examples, right?
Average Ameriacn
Member
Sat Sep 12 11:38:56
Stop autism!

http://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/185734595864563712

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

A study says @Autism is out of control--a 78% increase in 10 years. Stop giving monstrous combined vaccinations
4:25 PM · Mar 30, 2012
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 12 11:50:18
"we all know what she meant...If a vaccine comes out before I can win an election , its dangerous. Trump does plenty of bad things too, like his mask stance, but this is wrong too on her. "

if a vaccine comes out before the election, then it IS dangerous (or at least not properly tested)

but Kamala didn't even go that far, she said she'd trust the experts
(& that is in NO WAY comparable to Trump's total failure on masks)

but there won't be a vaccine so it doesn't matter... at the very best, there would be emergency use authorization for first responders and maybe nursing home people (FDA already shown to be willing to be pressured into EUAs)


as for the experts/muzzling, Fauci was sidelined very early for contradicting Trump, Birx later sidelined for merely saying virus spreading & she was concerned... now Trump's favored doctor is a guy w/ no experience in the field who claims he hasn't pushed for herd immunity even though he's on tape pushing for herd immunity

so yes, distrusting Trump's people is included... if you are wise... he's proven very capable of corrupting people or just appointing corrupt people

& completely related:

"Trump officials interfered with CDC reports on Covid-19"
http://www...cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809

anyone voting for this dangerous wannabe dictator is fucking nuts
Habebe
Member
Sat Sep 12 12:55:25
"
but Kamala didn't even go that far, she said she'd trust the experts"

That's a bold faced lie. The video is there. She may not be a full on anti vaxxer like joy, but she is a science denier. She believes Trump is co trollinf them,* she literally says so.*

Woo, Whatever works for you. Facts are facts, feel free to pull Kellyann Conway though.

Believing in conspiracy theories that guide your judgments against vaccines makes you an anti vaxxer. Whether it's autism or trump poisoning liberals.

That's not the same as having legitimate concerns not derived from conspiracy theories. For example the polio fuck up I linked to earlier.
The Children
Member
Sat Sep 12 13:17:44
kowtow and bend the knee.

u will get our vaccine. cheap, effective, safe.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 12 14:36:38
"she is a science denier"

not in the slightest

Q: 'do you trust experts will get the last word on efficacy'
A: "no"... this has already failed in the past, why would you trust it now? hydroxy had rushed approval because of Trump, same for plasma, plus how often have experts backed Trump's claims? who is the last expert who has joined Trump on any virus 'briefing'?

we get nothing Trump's rosy made-up bullshit, he doesn't let experts join as they would get questions that would lead to answers that contradict him

---

Q: 'let's say theres a vaccine before election, would you get it?'
A: 'i would not trust Trump... it would have to be a credible source'

completely reasonable
habebe
Member
Sat Sep 12 19:44:31
This is Hillary level " vast right wing conspiracy" crazy. Now truthfully I dont think she believes this, its politics.

The " its failed in the past" is a bs argument. Hydroxy was beung used prior to Trump touting it, conflicting info but no ine was hurt except the retard who drank fish cleaner....

Polio vaccines have failed in the recent past, should we ban them or disregard than? and that did way more damage than some guy drinking fish cleaner.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 12 21:36:51
ignorant delusional liar fraud Trump -has- influenced the FDA and CDC (and NOAA, for that matter)

you should be flat out angry, not 'meh, maybe he made some mistakes'

that CDC article I posted above is Michael Caputo (a member of the Trump campaign, therefore probably a criminal) now appointed to spokesman for HHS (w/ no experience in the field, of course) admitting to pressuring, and succeeding in some cases, in getting CDC reports altered to match Trumps made-up bullshit messaging

and Caputo's defense is he's fighting 'deep state' info... an excuse he should be embarrassed about using if we weren't warp speeding to Idiocracy

they are corrupting agencies not meant to be political at all, with the only intent to support Trump's made-up bullshit
hood
Member
Sat Sep 12 22:09:23
hot rod jr is balls deep in alternative facts. But he's been there for, conceivably, his entire life.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Sep 14 12:51:09
more on Mr Caputo... (the Trump campaign guy appointed to HHS spokesman w/ no background in health care & apparently in charge of the propaganda campaign to lie to us about the pandemic)


"
...
Mr. Caputo on Sunday complained on Facebook that he was under siege by the media and said that his physical health was in question and his “mental health has definitely failed.”

“I don’t like being alone in Washington,” he said, describing “shadows on the ceiling in my apartment, there alone, shadows are so long.” He then ran through a series of conspiracy theories, culminating in a prediction that Mr. Trump will win re-election but his Democratic opponent, Joseph R. Biden Jr., will refuse to concede.

“And when Donald Trump refuses to stand down at the inauguration, the shooting will begin,” he said. “The drills that you’ve seen are nothing.” He added: “If you carry guns, buy ammunition, ladies and gentlemen, because it’s going to be hard to get.”

...

Despite the criticism of his team’s interference with C.D.C., Mr. Caputo said he expected to remain in his post because Mr. Trump supported him. “I’m not going anywhere,” he said. “I swear to God, as God is my witness, I am not stopping.”

His Facebook presentation comes as Mr. Trump has increasingly singled out federal government scientists as targets, complaining without evidence that they were deliberately trying to subvert his administration’s efforts to fight the pandemic for their own political reasons.

Mr. Caputo echoed those sentiments, saying scientists “deep in the bowels of the C.D.C. have given up science and become political animals.”

They “haven’t gotten out of their sweatpants except for meetings at coffee shops” to plot “how they’re going to attack Donald Trump next,” Mr. Caputo said. “There are scientists who work for this government who do not want America to get well, not until after Joe Biden is president.”

...

Mr. Caputo suggested, also without evidence, that the August killing of a Trump supporter in Portland, Ore., by an avowed supporter of the left-wing collective known as antifa was part of broader left-wing plot to target the administration’s supporters.
...
"
<full article w/ more crazy shit>
http://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/caputo-virus.html

i'd like to see source video, doesn't seem easily found at moment... & i'm no good at searching Facebook

but if those quotes are true... god damn...
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