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Utopia Talk / Politics / just a few more weeks
sam adams
Member
Tue Sep 15 21:24:43
Right seb?

http://fin...uld-limit-virus-192833797.html

The U.K. government warned that coronavirus tests could soon be further restricted as laboratories struggle to cope with rising demand, in a blow to businesses seeking to get more workers back to the office.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said on Tuesday he would “not shirk from decisions about prioritization” and resources would be focused on hospitals and care homes -- a comment that suggests community testing will be reduced if demand continues to grow. The minister said he believed the problems in the system would take “a matter of weeks” to resolve.

U.K. Races to Fix Struggling Covid Test System as Cases Rise
Dakyron
Member
Tue Sep 15 21:47:56
Goddamn... Its crazy to think a country fucked up COVID response more than the US, but there it is.

By the way Seb, 7 day rolling average of new cases here is like 400 now. Still no lockdown.
sam adams
Member
Wed Sep 16 09:07:41
Lol imagine thinking a people as incompetent as the UK could manage this in such a controlled, precise way.

Should have recognized as stayed somewhat open like the rest of us.
sam adams
Member
Wed Sep 16 13:51:21
Lol seb we see you posting elsewhere while hiding from these threads.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 10:29:43
Seb?

Lol
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 10:51:16
I didn't realise this was a thread aimed at me!

Yes, the UK has fucked up test and trace. Not leaving lockdown until it was solid would have forced them to sort it. But they are busking it.

But at least they are busking it, where as the US is just doing fuck all.

As a result, we are seeing a spike, but the US never stopped the first phase, it just kept growing.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=2020-09-25..latest&country=GBR~USA®ion=World

UK deaths per million - 617/million
US deaths permillion - 613/million

Your daily new deaths per million in the US is 2.72 / million. The daily new deaths per million in the UK is 0.59.

You will overtake us this weekend and be ahead of us by Monday or Tuesday.


You have definitely fucked up your response more than we have. Massively so.

We can compare economic figures next year, but the quarterly GDP figures show a huge rebound, and our unemployment figures are better.

It will be impossible to tell from headline figures as Brexit will probably hammer us next year.

The US is in a category reserved for third world countries in having continued growth in deaths and cases without a levelling off.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:04:38
"where as the US is just doing fuck all."

Well ya. We knew from the start that our government was way too incompetent to handle anything like track and trace, so we didnt bother.

You should have known that, and not hobbled your economy as much.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:09:46
"i meant to fuck up!"

That's pretty lame Sam. That's why the US is now in the third world club on Covid.

I remember a few months ago, when you could fall back on the UK having several times the deaths per capita as the US, when you were arguing your response was clearly better because of that.

Now you have caught up - something you said would never be able to happen - and are overtaking us, you argument is that this was inevitable because your govt is shit. Your govt is clearly much worse than the UKs.
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:13:21
"Your daily new deaths per million in the US is 2.72 / million."

Assuming that tend holds, we'd be looking at 1 deaths per thousand per year. Hardly a large number. And most of those deaths are attributable to sick and elderly people who probably didnt have long to live anyway.

How is 1 per 1,000 worth shutting down your national economy and placing unprecedented restrictions on peoples' freedoms?
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:14:48
You are lucky this was relatively benign.

You'd have collapsed if this was as deadly as SARS.
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:22:02
The 1957 and 1968 pandemics killed a similar level of UK citizens, yet you didnt need to shut down your entire country then.

Why was this self-inflicted wound necessary now?

Face it, you gave in to the hysteria and asked the government to enact measures that would have previously been unthinkable in a liberal democracy.

The proper thing to do is to open up, protect the sick and elderly, and wait it out until a vaccine is found.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:27:44
Rugian:

We tolerated a vast number of deaths from london pea soupers, and environmental legislation that got rid of it was a huge burden to the economy.

The piece you refuse to accept, and I think global figures will show: countries that adopted a "crush the curve" approach overall will not do much worse and may do better economically in the medium to long term. Those that did not do lockdown see patchy lockdown like behaviour anyway, reduced demand due to lack of policy interventions and greater unemployment effects.

Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:41:42
"Now you have caught up - something you said would never be able to happen"

Your memory is as bad as your trust in government.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:45:36
A second wave is ramping up across europe despite the euros thinking they could control this. Lol. You fucked up your economies for nothing as we knew you would.

Thats the funny part.

If you had a healthy distrust for your government to start, you wouldnt be so embarrassed right now.
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 25 11:53:17
http://www...e-country-by-country-breakdown

Only time will tell if the EU or the US does a worse job. Either way neither seems great.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 12:14:29
Yeah, but our second wave is far less worse than your still ongoing first wave Sam.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 12:14:55
I'll find the post you made Sam.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 12:45:33
Lol. Poor seb. Imagine tying your system of beliefs to big government. Somehow believing government functionaries would save the world. And then watching them utterly fail. This must be very hard for you.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 13:31:11
Sam:

You are literally doing the worst of any major economy.

Even worse than the UK with its hollowed out state run by a bunch of lunatic incompetents.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 13:31:15
Sam:

You are literally doing the worst of any major economy.

Even worse than the UK with its hollowed out state run by a bunch of lunatic incompetents.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 13:31:31
Sam:

You are literally doing the worst of any major economy.

Even worse than the UK with its hollowed out state run by a bunch of lunatic incompetents.
habebe
Member
Fri Sep 25 13:37:59
Seb, By which measures?

I ask because death rate in the US likley would have been higher no matter the handling because we are crazy unhealthy compared to most nations.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 14:08:13
"You are literally doing the worst of any major economy."

The actual data shows the opposite. The US saw less contraction than each significant power in europe.

You are so wrong so frequently, you would have better results by reversing your original thoughts.

Seb... negatively intelligent.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 14:33:59
"we may have worse unemployment, higher death tolls, and consistent increases in deaths having been got a grip than every other major Western country, but our economic contraction wasn't quite as bad as in some other countries... USA USA"

The short term blunting of the downturn is likely to manifest in longer period of slower rebound. But like I said, we will see.

In terms of the medical dimension, you fucked it up totally.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 14:51:26
Poor seb.

Seb
Member Fri Sep 25 12:14:55
I'll find the post you made Sam.

No, you wont. Even if such a post exists(it doesnt), your negative intelligence will not allow you to find it.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 14:58:23
It's in herd immunity 3. I said you'd catch up shortly. You said did I'd said that before, and did I never get tired of being wrong.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 14:58:49
It was in June. Three months later, here we are.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 15:05:32
http://www...hread?id=politics&thread=85989
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 25 17:12:29
Three months later isnt shortly. Given that you made that claim every few weeks.

Also "not shortly" isnt "never"

Lol.

Wrong again.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 25 19:08:07
Three months is shortly. Can't help it if you are impatient.

Pretty sure you said something along the lines of it being too late for that to happen.

You rejected time and time again the idea that the US was fucking up because your daily death rate was higher than others, chosing instead to focus on deaths per capita.



The simple fact is everywhere else in the developed world, even with the current spikes, deaths per capita leveled off ages ago.

Only in the US is it still rising in the fashion.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Sep 25 19:17:00
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 25 19:38:28
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Sep 26 17:43:21
So seb, still not able to find that post where i said we would never catch you?
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Sep 26 17:44:08
Like i said.... your memory sucks as much as yoir logic
Seb
Member
Sun Sep 27 04:46:54
Already did, the above is close enough.

Apparently you thought "shortly" meant tomorrow or something.

Congratulations: you've turned your country into a plague ridden banana republic, with widespread rioting, paramilitaries and lunatic president who clearly wants an autocracy.

All because you hate black people.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Sep 27 11:14:55
"the above is close enough."

Lol. Pats seb on the head. At least you tried.
Seb
Member
Sun Sep 27 12:28:14
Sam, you live in a country thats failing, because it's following your ideology.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Sep 27 13:02:10
Imagine living in a place less accomplished than our poorest state and saying this. Imagine adopting the socialist policies of laziness and incompetence and thinking you are doing things right. Imagine thinking your government could save you from coronavirus and it would just be a couple more weeks... 20 weeks ago.

Behold the mind of seb. Negative intelligence.
Seb
Member
Sun Sep 27 13:32:34
Imagine arguing that his country had a good corona virus policy when it was running a daily death rate the highest and most protracted in the Western world, falling back time and time again on cumulative deaths, only now to see the US have the highest cumulative death rate of large Western countries and still growing at the same rate.

Imagine clinging to a failed, ideological stance, despite the overwhelming evidence of its total failure.

Imagine being so psychologically fragile, that despite the evident futility of, you still continue to try to find some new relative measure to avoid acceptimg and correcting the failure.

Imagine, in short, being Sam. Its like watching a late stage Soviet die hard in the early 1990s.

The games up Sam. You failed.



habebe
Member
Sun Sep 27 13:38:16
"Imagine, in short, being Sam. Its like watching a late stage Soviet die hard in the early 1990s."

Jergul?
jergul
large member
Sun Sep 27 13:54:11
At the time, I was still pretty worried about a Russian invasion by Soviet diehards. Say what you want, but they had the power to orchestrate a explosive draw to the cold war - and retained that power for years into Yeltsin's rule.

I remember thinking it would be so cool if we could get some more of those night vision monoscopes. What an advantage in combat if we could see while the invaders could not.
habebe
Member
Sun Sep 27 13:59:52
Ny invaders he means liberators and freedom fighters.
jergul
large member
Sun Sep 27 14:02:42
Shrug, I was willing to put my life on the line at the Soviet frontier. What is on your merit list? A willingness to get shot by cops if things go sour when they arrested you?
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Sep 27 14:13:24
Imagine being as incompetent as seb and the UK... thinking you could control the virus but failing, and just fucking your economy instead.

The US is likewise not going to stop the virus. But at least we recognized this and kept the economy going a bit more.
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 27 14:16:24
Well this the US version of reigning in entitlement spending. 200k died. Probably 150k+ were drawing heavy on entitlement spending.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Sep 27 14:29:36
The US is led by a retard, populated by mindless overweight africans and religious rednecks, stopped trying 4 months ago... and are only now reaching the UKs death rate.

Meanwhile the uk tried their hardest, squelched their economy, and still failed.

Lol. An island of cucks. Incompetent ones at that.
Seb
Member
Sun Sep 27 17:52:54
Sam:

Incorrect. The UK thought it could ignore the virus. All the deaths occurred because the UK didn't lock down in early march. Thus our deaths have levelled off and bit moved much since. This doesn't prove we couldn't control the virus. It proves the opposite.

The US ignored the virus, and it has just got worse and worse.

And Sam, like an idiot, thinks this a good idea.
Seb
Member
Sun Sep 27 17:53:57
As for the economy, we shall see where those that effectively controlled the virus (Germany etc.) end up.
Seb
Member
Sun Sep 27 18:15:58
Sam literally cannot conceive of the idea that govt intervention can stop the spread of a pandemic, even when the entire reason that the US has overtaken the UK is precisely because the UK was able to halt the spread after a couple of catastrophic months where it decided not to try, while the US has squandered every advantage it has: younger population, bigger county, lower propulation density, longer warning time.

He is that blinded by ideology.
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 27 18:18:35
"As for the economy, we shall see where those that effectively controlled the virus (Germany etc.) end up."

That will be really interesting. Id also like to see how SK and Taiwan hold up considering they did fantastic.
Seb
Member
Sun Sep 27 18:23:40
Sam dyatlov Adams.
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 27 19:11:32
http://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy

The US seems to be right in the middle economically.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Sep 27 22:59:19
Lol @ comparisons of US to UK.

Focus on US is now MUH CASES, because fatalities have dried up, after a handful of states killed off their nursing homes.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Sep 27 23:16:16
"Sam literally cannot conceive of the idea that govt intervention can stop the spread of a pandemic"

Some could. But not yours. Lol dumbass.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Sep 27 23:24:48
http://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy


Lol who is right at the bottom? Is that the uk?

Imagine fucking up your economy and not even controlling the virus. Imagine thinking you were competent enough to control the virus while living in the uk.

Lol utter failure.
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 28 01:39:47
Forwyn:

Fatalities haven't died up.

The US is overtaking the UK in fatalities per capita.

Sam:
Economic decline in the second quarter doesn't tell us much except what happened in the second quarter. Rebound in third and fourth quarter matter.

Seb
Member
Mon Sep 28 01:41:48
Sam is admitting he would have not locked down in the UK, kept the fatality rate growing at US levels, to keep GDP in quarter 2 higher.

Seb
Member
Mon Sep 28 01:44:04
US unemployment may to July was 12%, UK may to July was 4%
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Sep 28 12:04:18
"Economic decline in the second quarter doesn't tell us much except what happened in the second quarter. Rebound in third and fourth quarter matter."

Too bad your inability to control the disease is going to fuck up your 3rd and 4th q numbers too huh.

"US unemployment may to July was 12%, UK may to July was 4%"

The uk counts welfare recipients as employed. Lol. Full commie make believe land these days. -22% GDP is the hard number that matters.
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 28 12:09:50
Sam:

The disease is controlled - that's why our deaths per million has not moved significantly for months while yours is increasing.

No, we don't count welfare recipients as employed Sam.

Forwyn
Member
Mon Sep 28 12:57:54
"Fatalities haven't died up.

The US is overtaking the UK in fatalities per capita."

To be expected. We have many more population centers, and will have had >50 different major outbreaks before it's all said and done.

But the major shithole states have already finished genociding their old-homed Boomers, and deaths are a trickle. There was no healthcare collapse. It's not the end of days, or if it is, it isn't because of Wuhan Corona. Yawn.
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 28 13:13:28
Forwyn:

Yes that was always my point. You are a larger country and less concentrated in a few conurabations, so the way the diseases spreads is that it will take longer to her the same level of reach.

But that means you had months to prevent the catastrophe that befel the UK in weeks

Instead, Sam kept going on about how the us was doing better than the UK because per capita deaths were lower.

Only the reverse is true: the UK got a grip on the diseases. In the US you've just let it keep spreading.

And it is still spreading, and your per capita death rate is still going up.

Hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths.
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 28 13:14:01
And your economy took a huge hit, and you made millions lose their job through shit policies.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Sep 28 16:25:35
"The disease is controlled"

Why do you lie in such a retarded way? Like it takes 4 seconds to disprove your lie.

Look at this fucking spike

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Lol utterly retarded.
Seb
Member
Mon Sep 28 16:43:40
Sam, that's like saying WW2 isn't over and pointing to the death toll as evidence. It's not even sophomoric.

UK death rate - flat. US death rate, rising.

That's why you've overtaken us.

We got the diseases under control, after letting it run for a month. You never got it under control.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Sep 28 17:46:58
Do you see the reported case numbers? Rofl retard complete
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Sep 28 17:49:39
Uk cases are skyrocketting as you enter your second wave.

Sebs screeching "its under controll!!!"

Lol. This might be your emost embarrassing retardation yet. And that is saying a LOT.
Seb
Member
Tue Sep 29 04:52:41
Sam:

Our cases are increasing, yes, but they are still lower than your daily cases per million have ever been than since the earliest days of the crisis.

We've gone from 25 per million to around 50 per million (+/- 10 I'm eyeballing the curve).

Yours is 200 per million.

Skyrocket is a relative term. Mostly these new cases are amoung the young, and in London, that's likely to get more stringent social distancing measures.

So yes, we have it under control, you don't.

As for screeching, you are the one that sounds rather desperate. After months of ignoring the daily case figures and pointing at cumulative figures - for that piece of rope to turn out to be long enough only to suspend your argument from the neck - you fall back to daily figures, and when that doesn't work, silly adjectives and jabbering about GDP, claiming You deliberately chose to kill, what is it now? 200k Americans? for what looks like maybe a years growth at best over the cycle.

It's modern day version of human sacrifice to make the crops grow.

Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 10:52:20
lol @seb. Its under control!!!

http://ibb.co/4RKjt71
Seb
Member
Tue Sep 29 11:41:03
What Sam is missing in his graph, is that we weren't really testing very many people in march - so that first peak is c. ten times higher. This was discussed at the time widely. And by Sam.

We are seeing a spike, yes, but daily new cases per million are still low relative to comparible counties, low compared to real historic rates, and manageable.

So yes, under control. For now.

Seb
Member
Tue Sep 29 11:43:40
The interesting thing to see is whether the govt follows Sam policy, and let's the disease continue to grow beyond the ability to control, or Seb policy with further controls measuress enacted.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 12:21:53
"We are seeing a spike, yes,"

Lol. So not under control. Thanks for playing.
Seb
Member
Tue Sep 29 12:33:06
Sam:

You are confusing under control with suppressed. If I meant suppredsed, I'd have said suppressed. The test is whether a spike becomes a full blown second wave requiring a national lockdown to bring back into manageable levels.

So far, we are not in that position.

I understand your confusion though, the US being such a dumpster fire I suppose these all like impossible nuances compared to the ongoing uncontrolled situation in the US.

By any measure, we are handling the disease better than the US approach, which is basically admitting the US is such a failure of a state it can't handle such things.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 29 12:41:07
Wait, are you two arguing over whose country sucks the most?

You two are beyond hope.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 12:50:51
A month of exponential spike is not under control by even the most retarded definition.

UK economy shows signs of faltering before second Covid-19 wave
http://www...second-covid-19-wave-recession
UK coronavirus news: country records highest daily rise in infections with 7,143 new cases


Its under control!!!


Who is the most blatantly clueless? Seb or trump?
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 12:56:56
Nah nimatzo, i am perfectly willing to admit my country is full of retards, especially in government, especially in the south and where africans congregate.

But seb thought they had a chance... and failed. This is funny to me.
Seb
Member
Tue Sep 29 15:13:43
Sam:

The problem is not that your country is full of retards, the problem is is full of proof like you who don't believe the country is capable of tackling problems, and vote to make it weak and incapable.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 15:30:53
Seb thinks the capability of a country lies in its government bureaucrats.

This is why you fail.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 15:37:01
You see, in the real world, the best capability comes from giving freedom and incentive to succeed to your best and brightest.

The US does this better than most places.

This is why the vaccine that saves your weakass nation will probably be created by an american company.
Seb
Member
Tue Sep 29 15:55:38
Sam:

Yeah, that's why the two leading vaccines are from Oxford and Imperial, and the most cost effective treatment was found by the NHS.

Your incentive system is doing so, so well that after nine months you've not been able to slow the death rate.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 19:13:18
Leading the way according to seb.


(CNN)As US health authorities consider whether to allow AstraZeneca to resume the clinical trial of its coronavirus vaccine, crucial questions remain about neurological illnesses suffered by study participants who received injections of the experimental vaccine.

The trial has been on hold in the United States for more than two weeks, and regulators face the task of trying to figure out if these illnesses were random and disconnected from the vaccine, or if they are related to the vaccine.

AstraZeneca and its partner, the University of Oxford, have given various accounts of the sick volunteers.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 29 19:17:56
Anyway, i do hope your vaccines work. They probably wont... workers in your nation are chosen for their percieved opression status rather than ability, and the best researchers generally flock to the US for higher pay.

But i hope they work.
Seb
Member
Wed Sep 30 00:56:09
US is the only place it's remained on hold. The reason is a single event of transverse myelitis, which is a rare reaction to vaccination generally. Trials have resumed in other countries.

Trump is backing an alternative vaccine.
So probably says more about the low quality of your bureaucrats and govt in general.

Seb
Member
Wed Sep 30 01:00:40
Sam, you are busking again. UK is well known for being a leader in medical innovation, and disproportionately represented in terms of high impact factor publications, top ranking university's etc etc.

Seb
Member
Wed Sep 30 01:01:42
Also places where you can bring up your kids without them having to run active shooter drills, and an effective healthcare system where you don't have to deal with endless faffs with insurance.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Sep 30 11:35:11
"UK is well known for being a leader in medical innovation"

Lol. Pats seb on the head. Playtime make believe is fun.

"Also places where you can bring up your kids without them having to run active shooter drills"

Oh look an isis import shooting up a cafe. What were you saying? I cant hear you over the screaming and crying.
Seb
Member
Wed Sep 30 14:52:38
http://www.wipo.int/publications/en/details.jsp?id=4434

http://healthinformatics.uic.edu/blog/the-4-top-countries-for-health-tech-development/


http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?area=2700

Puts Sam on naughty step for not doing his homework.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Sep 30 16:00:15
If by a "leader" you mean a distant fourth with the US in first by far...

Enjoy your US vaccine.

Make sure to say thank you.
Seb
Member
Thu Oct 01 00:51:40
Aw, Sam moving the goalposts when shown up, again.
Seb
Member
Thu Oct 01 04:17:21
I'm actually working on the UK vaccine program Sam. Want to place a small wager on which vaccine we will be using for wave 1?
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Oct 01 10:57:39
AstraZeneca vaccine delayed further as FDA expands probe into serious illness that was likely caused by it.

Im not going to root against any vaccine but lets be honest...
Seb
Member
Thu Oct 01 12:27:47
Sam:

Like I said, none of the other regulators have extended the delay, and we know trump has backed a particular vaccine.

We know how the US works.
Dakyron
Member
Thu Oct 01 14:16:30
"I'm actually working on the UK vaccine program Sam."

Great news! We will have a vaccine in just "8 weeks", right Seb?
Seb
Member
Thu Oct 01 15:31:42
The distribution part, not the clinical trials
Seb
Member
Thu Oct 01 15:37:31
Dakyron, as someone who, on the very day that turned out to be the peak of deaths in Arizona, claimed that the disease had peaked 15 days earlier and had returned to levels last seen in mid April, you outght be more cautious.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Oct 08 14:00:40
http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Exponential growth of cases in the UK continues. Deaths starting to ramp up.

"Under control"

Lol seb.
sam adams
Member
Sat Oct 10 12:09:39
Seb?
Seb
Member
Sat Oct 10 17:02:39
Yeah, I was expecting the announcement they will make on Monday last week.

Clearly, our idiot politicians have learned nothing and are following the Sam script of "but noes, the economy! Wiat, whut is exponentials?"
Seb
Member
Sat Oct 10 17:03:09
The fact they still wait for a Monday to make an announcement is fucking stupid.
Seb
Member
Sat Oct 10 17:06:23
Still, even our loss of control, we probably won't catch you up on deaths per million.
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