Utopia Talk - Politics - Voter fraud or not?

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Voter fraud or not?

habebe
Member Wed Oct 07 03:18:53
http://www...-says-he-was-offered-bribe.amp

Fox
☰
Subject of Project Veritas voter fraud story says he was offered bribe
By Tom LydenPublished 1 day agoUpdated 12 hours agoFOX 9

Liban Osman tells the FOX 9 Investigators he was offered $10,000 by community activist Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

(FOX 9) - Liban Osman is still trying to figure out how he became a symbol of voter fraud in America.

“It’s insane,” said the brother of newly elected Ward 6 Minneapolis City Councilman Jamal Osman.

Liban Osman is featured prominently in a video released last week by the conservative media operation Project Veritas claiming there is “massive voter fraud” in Minnesota orchestrated by Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

In his first interview, Liban Osman tells the FOX 9 Investigators he was offered $10,000 by community activist Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

“He was setting me up,” said Liban Osman.

Tale of Two Videos

It is clear from the raw video, obtained by FOX 9, that Liban Osman was working for his brother’s campaign.

Liban Osman admits the Project Veritas video footage looks incriminating, but he said the group deliberately left the full context on the cutting room floor. Project Veritas used two separate videos he posted on Snapchat while driving in his car to make it appear as if he was illegally picking up ballots and offering money for votes, he said.

In a video from July, Liban Osman said he was collecting mail in ballots from sick and elderly voters who had requested them through the campaign.

Liban Osman denies that he filled out the ballots or altered them in any way. He said what appears to be open ballots laying on the dash of his car are actually the envelopes the ballots came in. He said voters concerned about identity theft asked him to shred the envelopes.

Despite his boast that he had 300 ballots in the car, he said the actual number was closer to 20.

‘Money Is Everything’

Because of various court decisions, so-called ‘ballot harvesting’ - collecting more than the statutory limit of three ballots - was permitted during a five-week period this summer, from July 28 to September 4.

An attorney for Project Veritas claims Liban Osman’s Snapchat video collecting mail-in ballots was recorded in early July, making it illegal at the time to harvest more than three ballots.

Liban Osman could not recall the exact date he recorded the video, but said he believed it was in late July.

That video from July is edited with another video from August, when Liban Osman is heard boasting about money in politics. “Money is everything. It’s the key to this world,” he says.

The unedited video reveals the comments were clearly directed at his brother’s 11 opponents in the Ward 6 special election, many of whom were operating shoe-string campaigns.

‘Why are you defending Ilhan Omar?’

Liban Osman said he was approached by community activist Omar Jamal, who is a so-called ‘insider’ for Project Veritas and appears to be their primary source.

Omar Jamal, who he had not met previously, told him Project Veritas would pay him $10,000 to say he was harvesting ballots for Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

“He said, ‘Why are you defending Ilhan Omar?’” Liban recounts. “’They (Project Veritas) are not after you or your brother. Why are you defending her?’’”

“I told him he was insane and walked away,” Liban Osman said.

Project Veritas denies manipulating or misrepresenting its undercover video and claims it never offered Liban Osman $10,000.

Project Veritas Responds

“These are wild, and crazy, and baseless accusations,” said Jered Ede, chief legal officer for Project Veritas.

“This, to me, is a man who is drowning in the consequences of his own actions, who is trying to grasp at every possible straw to keep himself from going under,” Ede said.

In a second report from Project Veritas, surreptitiously recorded video shows a man receiving $200 in “pocket money” in exchange for his agreement to vote for Ilhan Omar.

James O’Keefe, the founder of Project Veritas, calls it “an explosive piece of tape.”

But two sources tell the FOX 9 Investigators the man is a relative of Omar Jamal, and that during the encounter outside Cedar Riverside Apartments, it is Jamal who is handing the man $200 which was intended for the family of a sick relative in Somalia.

The Project Veritas reports also contend, without evidence, that the cash for ballots scheme is being bank rolled by Lake Street businessman Basim Sabri.

In the second video, an anonymous woman said, “He’s Palestinian. He’s funding the whole thing.”

“It’s so un-American, it’s so illegal,” said Sabri, reached at his home in Miami.

Sabri provided the FOX 9 Investigators with a letter from his attorney threatening to sue Project Veritas for defamation if they do not remove the video.

Sabri acknowledged that he is a long-time supporter of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, and said he has also complained to the DFL about prior voting fraud in Ward 6. “I would never do that. Ever. Never. Because I would be a hypocrite,” said Sabri.

For his part, Omar Jamal has used his appearance in the Project Veritas reports to raise nearly $30,000. In an interview with Somali American TV, he reportedly backtracked on claims he witnessed cash being exchanged for ballots.

Omar Jamal declined an interview request, referring questions instead to Project Veritas.

President Trump has repeatedly tweeted about the Minnesota voter fraud claims and mentioned it at his campaign stop in Duluth last week.

“What about Omar that she gets caught harvesting,” Trump bellowed at the campaign event shortly before he became sick with COVID-19. “What the hell is going on?”

Congresswoman Ilhan Omar’s campaign has categorically and repeatedly denied any involvement in voting fraud, harvesting ballots, or paying for votes.

A Pattern of Disinformation

The lack of verifiable evidence, allegations of misrepresentation and entrapment, and coordination with conservative causes, has been part of Project Veritas’ method of operation.

The Stanford Internet Observatory reports there is evidence that the voter fraud story was coordinated with the Republican Party and rushed to publication to distract from the New York Times blockbuster on President Trump’s efforts to avoid paying federal income tax.

Days before the publication of the report, James O’Keefe of Project Veritas met with Trump’s Minnesota Campaign Chair, Mike Lindell, - founder and CEO of My Pillow Inc. - who tweeted out a tease that the report was forthcoming that night.

A week later the first Project Veritas video on alleged voter fraud in Minnesota had been viewed more than one million times on YouTube. The second report had been viewed more than a half-million times.

patom
Member Wed Oct 07 05:29:36
So if they're paying $200 for one vote, someone must have some mighty deep pockets. If they have actual proof then they should be turning it over to the District Attorneys Office.

habebe
Member Wed Oct 07 06:10:07
I would like to see the video entirley unedited for starters.

"The Stanford Internet Observatory reports there is evidence that the voter fraud story was coordinated with the Republican Party and rushed to publication to distract from the New York Times blockbuster on President Trump’s efforts to avoid paying federal income tax."

I would also like.to see this supposed evidence which gives absolutley no indication what that evidence is.

Cherub Cow
Member Wed Oct 07 06:47:08
"So if they're paying $200 for one vote, someone must have some mighty deep pockets."

Possibly, though the video indicates at parts that some payments were for multiple votes. They mention someone who was paid $800, but he later says that it was for an entire apartment building's votes (about 40 votes, going from my memory). I watched those videos ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWK56l2VaLY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV7oDl8yDZk ) when they were first getting press, and they did not seem convincing standalone. Some was hearsay and assumed evidence, some faces were blurred, and more context was needed (the full videos and full details about the individual persons was missing). But it was enough as a launching point: something that needed to be verified or checked by federal authorities in an independent investigation.

Former FEC lawyer Hans von Spakovsky (who has a potentially problematic affiliation with the GOP — von Spakovsky being associated with (partially? mostly?) unsubstantiated efforts to show DNC voter fraud) appeared on OAN (Yeah, I know) and said that the FBI *should* investigate, but he seemed doubtful that they would:
[The Heritage Foundation; September 30th, 2020]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekzlIyHpSMc

Project Veritas posted a rebuttal to the above (OP) Fox 9 research:
"James O'Keefe goes NUCLEAR in debunking bogus Fox 9 report that defends illegal ballot harvesting"
[Project Veritas; October 6th, 2020]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAZfQ7CpdKk
He seems pretty confident that the Fox 9 story was a hit piece loaded with misrepresentation, and he expects a retraction and a legal win from suing them. Fox 9 has already changed their headline, since they originally made a libelous claim about Project Veritas (Fox 9 called Project Veritas a "Right-wing disinformation group" — they would have to prove that in court). They updated to calling PV a "conservative media operation" and burying the claims of disinformation via hedge words. Should be interesting to see this play out.

Cherub Cow
Member Wed Oct 07 06:50:43
*"the full videos and full details ... [were] missing"

www.yeswecansong.com
Member Wed Oct 07 07:42:57
Why would you still believe them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas

During the 2016 campaign, the organization falsely claimed to have shown that the Hillary Clinton campaign accepted illegal donations from foreign sources.[14] O'Keefe was sued for defamation by a man he wrongfully depicted as a "willing participant in an underage sex-trafficking scheme"; the suit led to a settlement in 2013, in which O'Keefe issued an apology and paid $100,000.[15][16][17]

In 2017, Project Veritas was caught in a failed attempt to trick The Washington Post into posting a fabricated story about Roy Moore.[2][3][18][19] Rather than uncritically publish a story that accused Republican candidate Moore of impregnating a teenager, The Washington Post critically examined the story that they were presented with, checked the source, assessed her credibility and ultimately found that there was no merit to her claims, and that instead Project Veritas were trying to dupe The Washington Post.[11]

O'Keefe has been barred from fundraising for Project Veritas in Florida and other states because of his federal criminal record for entering a federal building under fraudulent pretenses

patom
Member Wed Oct 07 11:24:04
Hell if some dumbass were to offer me $2 $20 $200 or whatever to vote their way. I'd take it. Doesn't mean I'd vote the way they want me to.

I mean really, how huge would a voter fraud operation have to be to really effect an outcome in a State or Federal election?

Trump claimed 3 million illegal votes for Clinton in 16. Even formed a Commission to prove it. Still didn't find squat.

Which proves only two answers. Either the Democrats are super criminals or the Republicans don't know their ass from their elbow.

habebe
Member Wed Oct 07 11:28:12
3 million seems high, but Hillarry/ Obama were both known to be shady. More documents today declassified today or yesterday showing that Obama eas briefed on HRC making up shit on Russia and playing it up to distract people from her bad news.

Cherub Cow
Member Thu Oct 08 05:45:06
[patom]: "Hell if some dumbass were to offer me $2 $20 $200 or whatever to vote their way. I'd take it. Doesn't mean I'd vote the way they want me to."

In the videos, the money wasn't given in that way. They weren't saying, "Here's $200. Vote for Ilhan Omar. We trust you'll do so." It was more like, "Here's $200 for blank ballots that you have to give us right now."

..
[www.yeswecansong.com]: "Why would you still believe them?"

Yeah, I remember those stories and also the ACORN story and do not think PV has much (if any) credibility. But their claims should still be investigated by more than a partisan news outlet. At the very least, local authorities should subpoena PV's raw videos and see if they evidenced anything more than shady editing and faked exchanges. That is likely to be the case here if history repeats; PV has a pattern of heavy video editing and foot-dragging when it comes to releasing the unedited footage.

Habebe
Member Thu Oct 08 20:48:19
"Because of various court decisions, so-called ‘ballot harvesting’ - collecting more than the statutory limit of three ballots - was permitted during a five-week period this summer, from July 28 to September 4.

An attorney for Project Veritas claims Liban Osman’s Snapchat video collecting mail-in ballots was recorded in early July, making it illegal at the time to harvest more than three ballots."

I mean, Snapchat should be easy to check the date. The guy is unsure when it was. Thinking it was later in the month.

Which doesnt make sense, if your doing that sort of work you would remember " it was 2 days after we finally were allowed to"

If he did this on day the 27th, its clearly illegal activity.

Habebe
Member Thu Oct 08 21:49:19
So I you d a snopes article. Basically they said there is no evidence of Ilhan being linked as of yet.

However local police are investigating the incident but declined to say anything other than its currently being investigated.

show deleted posts

habebe Member	Wed Oct 07 03:18:53 http://www...-says-he-was-offered-bribe.amp Fox ☰ Subject of Project Veritas voter fraud story says he was offered bribe By Tom LydenPublished 1 day agoUpdated 12 hours agoFOX 9 Liban Osman tells the FOX 9 Investigators he was offered $10,000 by community activist Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. (FOX 9) - Liban Osman is still trying to figure out how he became a symbol of voter fraud in America. “It’s insane,” said the brother of newly elected Ward 6 Minneapolis City Councilman Jamal Osman. Liban Osman is featured prominently in a video released last week by the conservative media operation Project Veritas claiming there is “massive voter fraud” in Minnesota orchestrated by Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. In his first interview, Liban Osman tells the FOX 9 Investigators he was offered $10,000 by community activist Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. “He was setting me up,” said Liban Osman. Tale of Two Videos It is clear from the raw video, obtained by FOX 9, that Liban Osman was working for his brother’s campaign. Liban Osman admits the Project Veritas video footage looks incriminating, but he said the group deliberately left the full context on the cutting room floor. Project Veritas used two separate videos he posted on Snapchat while driving in his car to make it appear as if he was illegally picking up ballots and offering money for votes, he said. In a video from July, Liban Osman said he was collecting mail in ballots from sick and elderly voters who had requested them through the campaign. Liban Osman denies that he filled out the ballots or altered them in any way. He said what appears to be open ballots laying on the dash of his car are actually the envelopes the ballots came in. He said voters concerned about identity theft asked him to shred the envelopes. Despite his boast that he had 300 ballots in the car, he said the actual number was closer to 20. ‘Money Is Everything’ Because of various court decisions, so-called ‘ballot harvesting’ - collecting more than the statutory limit of three ballots - was permitted during a five-week period this summer, from July 28 to September 4. An attorney for Project Veritas claims Liban Osman’s Snapchat video collecting mail-in ballots was recorded in early July, making it illegal at the time to harvest more than three ballots. Liban Osman could not recall the exact date he recorded the video, but said he believed it was in late July. That video from July is edited with another video from August, when Liban Osman is heard boasting about money in politics. “Money is everything. It’s the key to this world,” he says. The unedited video reveals the comments were clearly directed at his brother’s 11 opponents in the Ward 6 special election, many of whom were operating shoe-string campaigns. ‘Why are you defending Ilhan Omar?’ Liban Osman said he was approached by community activist Omar Jamal, who is a so-called ‘insider’ for Project Veritas and appears to be their primary source. Omar Jamal, who he had not met previously, told him Project Veritas would pay him $10,000 to say he was harvesting ballots for Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. “He said, ‘Why are you defending Ilhan Omar?’” Liban recounts. “’They (Project Veritas) are not after you or your brother. Why are you defending her?’’” “I told him he was insane and walked away,” Liban Osman said. Project Veritas denies manipulating or misrepresenting its undercover video and claims it never offered Liban Osman $10,000. Project Veritas Responds “These are wild, and crazy, and baseless accusations,” said Jered Ede, chief legal officer for Project Veritas. “This, to me, is a man who is drowning in the consequences of his own actions, who is trying to grasp at every possible straw to keep himself from going under,” Ede said. In a second report from Project Veritas, surreptitiously recorded video shows a man receiving $200 in “pocket money” in exchange for his agreement to vote for Ilhan Omar. James O’Keefe, the founder of Project Veritas, calls it “an explosive piece of tape.” But two sources tell the FOX 9 Investigators the man is a relative of Omar Jamal, and that during the encounter outside Cedar Riverside Apartments, it is Jamal who is handing the man $200 which was intended for the family of a sick relative in Somalia. The Project Veritas reports also contend, without evidence, that the cash for ballots scheme is being bank rolled by Lake Street businessman Basim Sabri. In the second video, an anonymous woman said, “He’s Palestinian. He’s funding the whole thing.” “It’s so un-American, it’s so illegal,” said Sabri, reached at his home in Miami. Sabri provided the FOX 9 Investigators with a letter from his attorney threatening to sue Project Veritas for defamation if they do not remove the video. Sabri acknowledged that he is a long-time supporter of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, and said he has also complained to the DFL about prior voting fraud in Ward 6. “I would never do that. Ever. Never. Because I would be a hypocrite,” said Sabri. For his part, Omar Jamal has used his appearance in the Project Veritas reports to raise nearly $30,000. In an interview with Somali American TV, he reportedly backtracked on claims he witnessed cash being exchanged for ballots. Omar Jamal declined an interview request, referring questions instead to Project Veritas. President Trump has repeatedly tweeted about the Minnesota voter fraud claims and mentioned it at his campaign stop in Duluth last week. “What about Omar that she gets caught harvesting,” Trump bellowed at the campaign event shortly before he became sick with COVID-19. “What the hell is going on?” Congresswoman Ilhan Omar’s campaign has categorically and repeatedly denied any involvement in voting fraud, harvesting ballots, or paying for votes. A Pattern of Disinformation The lack of verifiable evidence, allegations of misrepresentation and entrapment, and coordination with conservative causes, has been part of Project Veritas’ method of operation. The Stanford Internet Observatory reports there is evidence that the voter fraud story was coordinated with the Republican Party and rushed to publication to distract from the New York Times blockbuster on President Trump’s efforts to avoid paying federal income tax. Days before the publication of the report, James O’Keefe of Project Veritas met with Trump’s Minnesota Campaign Chair, Mike Lindell, - founder and CEO of My Pillow Inc. - who tweeted out a tease that the report was forthcoming that night. A week later the first Project Veritas video on alleged voter fraud in Minnesota had been viewed more than one million times on YouTube. The second report had been viewed more than a half-million times.
patom Member	Wed Oct 07 05:29:36 So if they're paying $200 for one vote, someone must have some mighty deep pockets. If they have actual proof then they should be turning it over to the District Attorneys Office.
habebe Member	Wed Oct 07 06:10:07 I would like to see the video entirley unedited for starters. "The Stanford Internet Observatory reports there is evidence that the voter fraud story was coordinated with the Republican Party and rushed to publication to distract from the New York Times blockbuster on President Trump’s efforts to avoid paying federal income tax." I would also like.to see this supposed evidence which gives absolutley no indication what that evidence is.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Oct 07 06:47:08 "So if they're paying $200 for one vote, someone must have some mighty deep pockets." Possibly, though the video indicates at parts that some payments were for multiple votes. They mention someone who was paid $800, but he later says that it was for an entire apartment building's votes (about 40 votes, going from my memory). I watched those videos ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWK56l2VaLY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV7oDl8yDZk ) when they were first getting press, and they did not seem convincing standalone. Some was hearsay and assumed evidence, some faces were blurred, and more context was needed (the full videos and full details about the individual persons was missing). But it was enough as a launching point: something that needed to be verified or checked by federal authorities in an independent investigation. Former FEC lawyer Hans von Spakovsky (who has a potentially problematic affiliation with the GOP — von Spakovsky being associated with (partially? mostly?) unsubstantiated efforts to show DNC voter fraud) appeared on OAN (Yeah, I know) and said that the FBI should investigate, but he seemed doubtful that they would: [The Heritage Foundation; September 30th, 2020] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekzlIyHpSMc Project Veritas posted a rebuttal to the above (OP) Fox 9 research: "James O'Keefe goes NUCLEAR in debunking bogus Fox 9 report that defends illegal ballot harvesting" [Project Veritas; October 6th, 2020] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAZfQ7CpdKk He seems pretty confident that the Fox 9 story was a hit piece loaded with misrepresentation, and he expects a retraction and a legal win from suing them. Fox 9 has already changed their headline, since they originally made a libelous claim about Project Veritas (Fox 9 called Project Veritas a "Right-wing disinformation group" — they would have to prove that in court). They updated to calling PV a "conservative media operation" and burying the claims of disinformation via hedge words. Should be interesting to see this play out.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Oct 07 06:50:43 *"the full videos and full details ... [were] missing"
www.yeswecansong.com Member	Wed Oct 07 07:42:57 Why would you still believe them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas During the 2016 campaign, the organization falsely claimed to have shown that the Hillary Clinton campaign accepted illegal donations from foreign sources.[14] O'Keefe was sued for defamation by a man he wrongfully depicted as a "willing participant in an underage sex-trafficking scheme"; the suit led to a settlement in 2013, in which O'Keefe issued an apology and paid $100,000.[15][16][17] In 2017, Project Veritas was caught in a failed attempt to trick The Washington Post into posting a fabricated story about Roy Moore.[2][3][18][19] Rather than uncritically publish a story that accused Republican candidate Moore of impregnating a teenager, The Washington Post critically examined the story that they were presented with, checked the source, assessed her credibility and ultimately found that there was no merit to her claims, and that instead Project Veritas were trying to dupe The Washington Post.[11] O'Keefe has been barred from fundraising for Project Veritas in Florida and other states because of his federal criminal record for entering a federal building under fraudulent pretenses
patom Member	Wed Oct 07 11:24:04 Hell if some dumbass were to offer me $2 $20 $200 or whatever to vote their way. I'd take it. Doesn't mean I'd vote the way they want me to. I mean really, how huge would a voter fraud operation have to be to really effect an outcome in a State or Federal election? Trump claimed 3 million illegal votes for Clinton in 16. Even formed a Commission to prove it. Still didn't find squat. Which proves only two answers. Either the Democrats are super criminals or the Republicans don't know their ass from their elbow.
habebe Member	Wed Oct 07 11:28:12 3 million seems high, but Hillarry/ Obama were both known to be shady. More documents today declassified today or yesterday showing that Obama eas briefed on HRC making up shit on Russia and playing it up to distract people from her bad news.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Oct 08 05:45:06 [patom]: "Hell if some dumbass were to offer me $2 $20 $200 or whatever to vote their way. I'd take it. Doesn't mean I'd vote the way they want me to." In the videos, the money wasn't given in that way. They weren't saying, "Here's $200. Vote for Ilhan Omar. We trust you'll do so." It was more like, "Here's $200 for blank ballots that you have to give us right now." .. [www.yeswecansong.com]: "Why would you still believe them?" Yeah, I remember those stories and also the ACORN story and do not think PV has much (if any) credibility. But their claims should still be investigated by more than a partisan news outlet. At the very least, local authorities should subpoena PV's raw videos and see if they evidenced anything more than shady editing and faked exchanges. That is likely to be the case here if history repeats; PV has a pattern of heavy video editing and foot-dragging when it comes to releasing the unedited footage.
Habebe Member	Thu Oct 08 20:48:19 "Because of various court decisions, so-called ‘ballot harvesting’ - collecting more than the statutory limit of three ballots - was permitted during a five-week period this summer, from July 28 to September 4. An attorney for Project Veritas claims Liban Osman’s Snapchat video collecting mail-in ballots was recorded in early July, making it illegal at the time to harvest more than three ballots." I mean, Snapchat should be easy to check the date. The guy is unsure when it was. Thinking it was later in the month. Which doesnt make sense, if your doing that sort of work you would remember " it was 2 days after we finally were allowed to" If he did this on day the 27th, its clearly illegal activity.
Habebe Member	Thu Oct 08 21:49:19 So I you d a snopes article. Basically they said there is no evidence of Ilhan being linked as of yet. However local police are investigating the incident but declined to say anything other than its currently being investigated.
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