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Utopia Talk / Politics / Okay lets be serious for a moment
obaminated
Member
Mon Nov 16 21:43:09
http://www...uclear-site-advisers-week.html

Why is the media collectively focused on making trump a war mongerer? They do this now after Georgia's vote counts cause him to gain votes. It is genuinely scary how the media is forcing a narrative and the hypocritical left just goes along with it.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Nov 16 21:46:23
because Trump doesn't use sound judgment in his decision-making

I guarantee nothing to do with Georgia, he gained 800 votes and not via any allegation of fraud
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Nov 16 21:50:47
-Trump is screwing with Pentagon leadership
-Israel probably still has him in their pocket
-his strategy on Iran failed
-Trump doesn't give a shit about consequences, especially on his way out

all reasons for concern
habebe
Member
Mon Nov 16 21:55:32
The Most antiwar potus in modern history.

Mainstream media is a pseudo an arm ofnthe DNC. That used to be.a.crazy conspiracy theory , until wikileakd dropped some emails.

----


OPINION
New DNC Emails Expose More DNC-Media-Clinton Campaign Collusion
The relationship is comparable to propaganda tactics employed by dictatorships
By Michael Sainato • 11/07/16 12:00pm
On November 6, WikiLeaks released a second batch of Democratic National Committee (DNC) emails in addition to the 20,000 they released in July preceding the Democratic National Convention.

Those initial emails led to the resignation of DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz and other top DNC staff for overtly violating the charter by working on behalf of the Clinton campaign against Bernie Sanders.

In response to the most recent WikiLeaks revelations, Sen. Sanders’ Latino strategist Cesar Vargas rescinded his endorsement of Hillary Clinton. “Bernie Sanders was treated horribly by the DNC, the Clinton crew, and the Obama administration, and by proxy, many of us were also stung,” he wrote in a recent article for the Huffington Post.” Without any apologies. In fact, we received nothing but contempt from the Clinton campaign and her surrogates. Then they expected us to fall in formation. Many of us did. I said I would endorse Hillary if she won the primary fair and square. And I did, but that was before I got a hold of all the highly unethical things that happened to get her to win.”


The newly released DNC emails provide further evidence of how the DNC, Clinton campaign, and mainstream media coordinated together to elevate Clinton’s candidacy.

“CNN is looking for questions,” read an April email between DNC staff asking to compile questions for CNN to ask Republican Sen. Ted Cruz in an interview. Questions for Donald Trump were also compiled by DNC staff to be asked on CNN. Emails from the DNC and Clinton campaign chair John Podesta have revealed how partisan CNN has behaved. A supposed media network and its journalists have been colluding behind the scenes with the DNC and Clinton campaign to propagate any preferred narrative of the Democratic Party.

In a recently-released email from Podesta, WikiLeaks revealed CNBC’s John Harwood asked Podesta what questions he should ask Jeb Bush in an interview. The interview was published in September 2015.


The Daily Caller first reported that Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank was fed Trump research from the DNC upon request for an anti-Trump article published in April.

The media’s unethical relationship has yielded no reprimand besides CNN severing ties with DNC interim chair Donna Brazile after emails revealed she forwarded debate questions to the Clinton campaign ahead of time. But CNN did so only to cover themselves, as they have yet to provide an explanation as to how Brazile acquired those questions in the first place.

Another DNC email revealed DNC communications strategist Deshundra Jackson had a mole contact in the Sanders campaign to provide her staff with information. “I pinged my friend on his campaign but she was let go a few days ago. I don’t have any other leads,” wrote Jackson in regards to what Sanders would be discussing at a press conference.


In early May, DNC staff members coordinated edits of Clinton email blasts with the Clinton campaign in an email chain. DNC staff was also invited to join the Hillary For America team on Slack around the same time, revealing that the DNC directly worked for the Clinton campaign before the Democratic primaries had ended.

The close relationship the DNC and mainstream media maintained with Clinton throughout the primaries is comparable to propaganda tactics employed in dictatorships. Hillary Clinton and her campaign subverted democracy in tandem with the DNC and mainstream media outlet to ensure her coronation as the Democratic presidential nominee. The stain left on democracy by this collusion won’t ever be forgotten by Bernie Sanders supporters.


Notnto mention the e-mails from Hillarry camp to promote Donald Trump, that happened.
habebe
Member
Mon Nov 16 21:56:01
http://www...linton-campaign-collusion/amp/
habebe
Member
Mon Nov 16 21:58:23
tw, Fraud or not, it bodes well for his narrative that they " found" 2700 ballots they forgot to count in one county.
obaminated
Member
Mon Nov 16 22:18:33
Hab is correct, trump is the only president in recent memory who actually avoided wars despite the left claiming he would start ww3.tw is an idiot
obaminated
Member
Mon Nov 16 22:18:58
Sorry tw. You arent an idiot. You are a useful idiot.
Daemon
Member
Mon Nov 16 22:20:46
He also wanted to attack Assad and had to be talked out, he admitted that.

"The Most antiwar potus in modern history."
More drone strikes than Obama and more bombs dropped.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Nov 16 22:52:49
"He also wanted to attack Assad and had to be talked out, he admitted that."

The left wing now tries to take the high ground on Syria. ROFL

"More drone strikes than Obama and more bombs dropped."

In nations we were already knee-deep in. An ever-expanding fleet leads to higher numbers, if the number of stages fails to decrease.

Quote me on this four years from now, Biden will surpass him.

No new wars or interventions, that's a fucking milestone.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Nov 16 22:56:29
"they "found" 2700 ballots they forgot to count in one county"

they were counted, results just not uploaded & the Sec of State (who team trash keeps trying to smear for not jumping on the no evidence mass fraud train) said he wants the person in charge of that county to resign over it

no indication of the heaps of Dominion nonsense team trash spewing out as of yet
Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Nov 16 23:01:21
"tw, Fraud or not, it bodes well for his narrative that they " found" 2700 ballots they forgot to count in one county."

They didn't forget to count them. They were properly scanned and all that, but the data from the memory card was accidentally not uploaded into the tally results.

It's good this error was found, but it doesn't doesn't play into the narrative of (non-existent) widespread voter fraud unless you're a delusional Trump fluffer.
Dukhat
Member
Mon Nov 16 23:04:29
Such creative history. Obaminated is a fucking retard like always.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Nov 16 23:30:55
Btw, in case anyone is confused, what Georgia is doing is not a recount. It's an audit. In order to reach the statistical level of confidence specified for the RLA, it's likely all ballots would have needed to be checked against the machines anyway. Even if it was a wider margin of victory and the RLA confidence didn't necessitate checking all ballots, I think it's likely the audit would have caught this error anyway.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Nov 17 00:20:00
pretty sure it's audit & recount (says audit triggers state-wide recount)

here's SoS talking about it
http://twitter.com/CNN/status/1326743801147305984

but if some legal or semantic reason not to call it a recount then whatever... afaik all 5 million being counted again by hand
Wrath of Orion
Member
Tue Nov 17 00:21:51
Recounts can only happen after the state certifies. In Georgia, a by-hand recount is not allowed - they would be run through the machines again.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Tue Nov 17 00:23:38
Audits normally do not need to do check all ballots, btw (and they are common, and usually automatic, in many states). Only when the margin is small do they typically need to check all ballots to reach their specified level of confidence. It's a statistical check.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Tue Nov 17 00:35:38
Anyway, as you can see, even election officials tend to use the wrong words. It doesn't really matter, except that people may be surprised when Trump requests a recount once the state certifies since they will already be thinking the recount happened.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Nov 17 01:15:39
are we in agreement all ballots now being counted a 2nd time by hand (even if not a "recount")?

(as i fully intend to repeatedly point out it completely disproves the heaps of Dominion shit that team Trump & his garbage allies keeping tweeting out)


here's how one article put it:
"
...
The hand count stems from a state law that calls for one race to be audited to ensure the new election machines counted the votes accurately. It was not the result of any suspected problems with the results or an official recount request.

Once the tally is complete and the results are certified, the losing campaign can request a recount, which would be done using scanners that read and tally the votes.

It was up to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, to select the race to be audited and he said the presidential race made the most sense because of its significance and the tight margin separating the candidates. Because of that small margin, Raffensperger said a full hand recount was necessary.
...
"
http://www...6jvdenecqhqzqzthfmq-story.html
patom
Member
Tue Nov 17 04:04:58
Obaminated "Hab is correct, trump is the only president in recent memory who actually avoided wars despite the left claiming he would start ww3.tw is an idiot"

I don't recall Bill Clinton starting any wars.
Obama took over in the midst of what Bush left behind.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 17 04:12:36
Patom
Kosovo.

===========

patom
Member
Tue Nov 17 06:10:18
jergul, how many troops did we send in? I believe the War or should I say Civil War was already going on.
Dukhat
Member
Tue Nov 17 06:16:05
Obaminated needs this dumbass narrative to gaslight himselr that he supported a shrill conman.
habebe
Member
Tue Nov 17 08:32:43
Credit is due where credit is due. Trump is the only modern president to not drag us into a major conflict.

He brought the Taliban to the table for peace talks.

And he got the UAE and Bahrain to recognize and work with Israel openly.

Credit is due.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Nov 17 08:35:45
"The left wing now tries to take the high ground on Syria. ROFL"

Be that as it may, this isn't relevant for the matter itself. Trump's track record is that of Obama, perhaps not in quantity, but he did drone Suleimani and Iran actually reponded by lobbing missiled directly at US bases, this was the most severe escalation since 1988. If not for Covid, who knows?

The moral of the story is that the POTUS has too much power when it comes to foreign policy. It creates this kind of retarded flip flop roller coaster on matters that require resiliance, continuity and consistency over a time horizon longer than 4 years.
Dakyron
Member
Tue Nov 17 09:17:11
"I don't recall Bill Clinton starting any wars. "

Are you senile? Kosovo, Kosovo, Kosovo. It was a big thing at the time, claiming Clinton started the war to distract from him fucking his intern and then lying about it.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 17 09:46:19
Nimatzo, Thats a common complaint from Euros. Not taking sides, but it is oddly an external complaint, like it almost never gets brought up as an internal US issue.
Daemon
Member
Tue Nov 17 10:12:37
Forwyn
"The left wing now tries to take the high ground on Syria. ROFL"

1) One does not need to be a leftist to despise Trump.

2) I thought that obaminated did not believe the article, which stated that Trump had to be talked out of the attack on Iranian bases. So I simply tried to compare it to a similar situation where Trump admitted that he had been talked out of the attack on Assad.



Nimatzo:
"Trump's track record is that of Obama, perhaps not in quantity, but he did drone Suleimani"

Trump did more drone attacks than Obama:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
"There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office"

Bombing Afghanistan:
http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/us-dropped-bombs-in-afghanistan-at-record-level-in-2019-1.616428
"The United States dropped more bombs and other munitions in Afghanistan last year [2019] than any other year since documentation began in 2006, Air Force data shows."
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 17 11:55:04
"He wanted to start a war but didnt because he listened to advisors."

Isn't that what a wise leader does?

What has trump done? He made peace with NK. He killed an iranian terrorist that killed americans BUT then stopped and didnt pursue a large scale war. He is a peaceful leader who hits back when hit and hits back hard enough to make his point but then stops.

It is foolish to think history books will talk about him being a warmonger.
Daemon
Member
Tue Nov 17 11:57:17
"He made peace with NK"

Did I miss something?
hood
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:02:34
Yeah, daemon. Being stuck in reality, one misses all sorts of imagined scenarios and perceptions contrary to what is.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:06:04
Hood, his simpy sarcastic aside, is correct. Trump calmed things down between NK and the rest of the world by holding direct peace talks. Trump understood someone like kim jung un(?) Wanted desperately to be taken seriously and by talking to the president of the US he was calmed down and hence we dont get anymore nuclear tests or random attacks on SK.
hood
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:10:11
The only accurate thing you said is that I am correct.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:16:01
I also said you were a simp, which explains why you call me a rapist all the time, i think that is true.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:18:41
Once again, im sorry hood, you never seem like a bad person but you seem to be stuck in the "nice guy" mentality and you just need to shake it off because no woman will ever find that attractive.
hood
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:19:03
You make a lot of wild claims, Harvey. But I do give you credit when you get something right. Like me being correct.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:21:47
I wont say anything insulting man, just hope you wake up one day.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:22:59
Lets get back on track about the left trying to shut up a strong woman for speaking her opinion.

What are your thoughts woo?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Nov 17 12:29:49
Habebe
”but it is oddly an external complaint, like it almost never gets brought up as an internal US issue.”

Because it primarily isn’t a internal US issue. When your president decides to blow up some place in Yemen, it is primarily a Yemeni issue. There is nothing odd about the feedback being external.
hood
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:34:33
"strong woman"

This is usually used to describe character, not physique. There's nothing strong about Gina Carano's character.
Dakyron
Member
Tue Nov 17 12:49:28
Being an asshole != strong
Forwyn
Member
Tue Nov 17 13:33:21
"Trump's track record is that of Obama"

Over a hundred thousand dead Syrians disagree.

"this was the most severe escalation since 1988."

I don't think bombing a base with warning to save face is the same as crippling a fleet.

"The moral of the story is that the POTUS has too much power when it comes to foreign policy."

True. The power to declare war rests solely with Congress, but every President bombs and intervenes and escalates, and even puts boots on the ground. But hey, they're just advisors and SpecOps, so it's okay.

"One does not need to be a leftist to despise Trump."

True. He has a lengthy track record of being a retard. I'm sure he looked at Syria and thought that a leadership decapitation would "solve" the problem and make him look strong where he thinks Obama looked weak.

But the claim was that he was overall anti-war, compared to his predecessors. Bombing a nation which falls under an almost two-decade old blank check AUMF and related conflict isn't really a counter to that. He is correct that an immediate withdrawal would be counterproductive to the stated goal of quelling Islamic terror, and his only escalation in the area has been more aggressively quell the Pakistani border areas, where insurgents have been given safe harbor for years.

Again, modifying the strategy of an existing conflict, and presiding over a fleet that is larger than it was four years ago, eight years ago, twelve years ago, is not the same as starting a new conflict.

Biden will preside over a larger fleet. He will not immediately withdraw from Afghanistan. He will likely be more bellicose in North Africa, Syria, and Yemen. And his numbers will be higher when we're arguing in 2024, if we still have internet.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 17 14:02:30
And the troops are coming home...watching on TV now.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 17 14:11:58
http://www...rom-afghanistan-and-iraq%3famp
Wrath of Orion
Member
Tue Nov 17 14:19:29
"Ahead of Miller's announcement, a senior Defense official told reporters that the drawdown was a “collaborative decision," but would not say which military leaders had recommended the plan.

The official also would not say which conditions had been met by the Taliban to warrant such a drawdown in Afghanistan.

The drawdown order — which contradicts months of previous advice from top Defense officials — comes a week after Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper and replaced him with Miller."

Yeah, sounds like a good idea, lol...
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Nov 17 14:26:19
Forwyn
Trump didn’t have an Arab Spring. In these contexts, there are marginal differences between Trump and Obama.
Dakyron
Member
Tue Nov 17 15:43:30
Its a good decision for Trump. The US should involve itself in a war between pedophiles(Afghan govt) and opium producers(former Taliban).
Forwyn
Member
Tue Nov 17 15:55:40
Nim
It's a conscious decision to answer regional protests by giving Wahhabis anti-tank missiles to try to flip governments away from geopolitical rivals.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Nov 17 16:42:58
Syria is also a complex battle ground with the US being one player. The USA was already aligned with Turkey, Saudi and Israel on multiple levels and for decades against Syrian, Russia and Iran. So, Obama, Trump, Bush, Clinton, save Jommy Carter would have fucked it up. There were always more ways for America to fuck it up than to make it better.

I am not making an excuse for Obama, but criticizing the office and the powers it has. Needs balancing.
habebe
Member
Wed Nov 18 00:41:16
Back to the OP for a second.

Let me point out that the sources of this news are dubious. 4 unnamed sources claimed this from the new York Times which is on par with infowars.

However Iran has now threatened retaliation so, good job the NYTs for probably making shit up and raising tensions with Iran for no good purpose.
habebe
Member
Wed Nov 18 00:46:34
Also the 4 sources dont even claim to have been in the meeting.So we could be talking janitors here, it also says former/current so people who used to work at the WH would somehow couls have overheard this from the unemployment line.
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